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Delaware Cops Shoot and Kill Man in Wheelchair as Witness Records (UPDATED)

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UPDATE: Youtube suspended our account for posting the video below, even though the original video is still on their website. What you see below is a capture of the original citizen journalist video hosted on our own servers.

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Delaware police shot and killed a man in a wheelchair Wednesday after he refused to place his hands in the air.

Instead, he appeared to be placing his hands in his pocket, which prompted police to shoot him several times, according to a witness video recorded at the scene.

The man, identified as Jeremy “Bam” McDowell, slowly fell sideways, landing on the street as his wheelchair remained upright.

Wilmington police say McDowell had a gun. And shouts of police ordering to drop the gun can be heard in the video.

But the gun is not immediately visible in the video.


However, witnesses and family members are not disputing the claim he had a gun.

According to Delaware Online:

Alexis Anthony identified the man as her cousin, Jeremy “Bam” McDowell, 28, and said he was shot by officers five times.

She said police officers on scene told her he was trying to commit suicide and refused to drop the weapon he was going to use. Anthony, who lives on the corner of Tulip and South Scott streets, then heard five gunshots and ran outside.

“They couldn’t [use a Taser on] him?” Anthony asked. “Instead, they killed him instead. They could have knocked him out of his wheelchair.”

McDowell had been in a wheelchair since being shot and paralyzed when he was 18, Anthony said.

Delaware cops say McDowell had shot himself beforehand.

And the video shows one officer shot at him almost a minute before the barrage of bullets finished him off.

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  • Boko Hos

    More heroes I’d like to see publicly executed with their families watching.

    • Hidden Mysteries Radio

      You’ve got to be kidding. There’s no reason at this point to believe he didn’t have a gun.

      • Unity Nowe

        There is reason to believe that he didn’t have the gun in his hand, aiming it at anyone. And there is even more reason to believe that police didn’t have a plan……as usual.
        They just shout, “He’s over here”, and they all go stomping over, without any communication or discussion of what they may be able to do, to de-esculate and insure that everyone lives. I have seen 10 year old kids communicate and come up with a strategy on a playground better than grown, adult idiots who carry guns and patrol the streets.

        • Karl Krautner

          The average reaction time is .5s. The average time to squeeze the trigger is about .1s. Nobody, knowing you have a gun, needs to wait until you have a .4s advantage on them.

          • Svlad Cjelli

            Thank you! It’s crazy that some people here expect police to bring a taser to a gunfight. There’s NOBODY more dangerous than someone who has decided that THEIR life is over. It’s real easy to judge, when you’ve never had to deal with someone with a gun.

          • Bobbleheaded

            Under that theory of force, a person is justified in shooting a police officer as soon as they think the officer may draw a weapon.

          • steve618

            BINGO!!! You’ve nailed it. The lesson is to NEVER allow a cop to get his gun out of his holster before you. The justification is that you ‘feared the officer would fear for his life and shoot’.

          • Rob Mul

            your kidding right? even in combat, im talking real combat you give the enemy a chance to drop their weapon if they are not engaging you. i dont understand these videos i honestly dont.. as a war vet that has seen and engaged “active shooters” guys with assault rifles and russian grenades willing to die for their cause, i dont get why blues jump to max level of force when the guy hasnt even shown a weapon… maybe im blind! but i didnt see a drawn weapon

          • raythemixer

            except the gun (if it exists) was not out and in his hand… Have you ever tried to pull a gun out of a jacket pocket? I suspect not. I wear a speed holster and could not possibly draw, aim and shoot faster than a man that has a gun pointed at me… you are delusional

          • Karl Krautner

            Thank you for making my point: The officers told the man repeatedly to raise his arms. When he instead went for his pocket, to pull out the gun, at which point the officers would loose the advantage, they fired.

          • So What

            You’re a phucking blind POS.. His hands were in his lap… I hope Satan phucks you everyday in your souls ass while you burn

          • Karl Krautner
          • So What

            Kewl…. Then go die you POS

          • Karl Krautner

            After you, child of a genocidal, invisible friend. Wouldn’t want to be caught dead in your paradise… 😉

          • So What

            I’m not friends with murderer lovers…You’re already dead. Which is why you love murderers.. The winks getting old.. It’s like you’re hitting on me now or want a taste of my man meat

          • Karl Krautner

            Actually, according to your belief’s mythology, you worship the greatest mass murderer of all times. As for your dating habits: They don’t concern me.

          • So What

            You’re an idiot

          • Karl Krautner

            At least I haven’t deluded myself into believing into an omnipotent and vengeful spirit, conjured up by desert-dwelling slaves, as a means of amalgamating their insurgency, creating a bloody trail of genocidal wars to conquer a land, “promised” to them by the artifact daemon. Fast forward about 3500 year and the worshipers of V2.0 of the desert daemon plunge the known world into several centuries of wars, oppression and – again – genocidal campaigns to conquer the same sliver of worthless land, all in the name of the “all loving god”. Seems pretty idiotic to me.

          • So What

            Wow!!! That’s a lot of big words coming from your dick sucker.

          • Karl Krautner

            Not really. They’re normal-sized words. You’re just to ignorant to understand them.

          • So What

            Your dick sucker still bobbing??? Time to swallow Karl

          • Karl Krautner

            Is this how white trash establishes dominance in their natural habitat? Awesome display… 😉

          • So What

            I wonder if your middle name also starts with a K?… The wink makes me think : O <~~ Karl

          • Karl Krautner

            The thread shows that you continuously “think”, but unfortunately, with the wrong “head”.

            But please, don’t let me keep you from sharing more examples of your prepubescent repertoire… 😉

          • So What

            Wink wink… Blow blow… That’s how Karl.. Go goes

          • Karl Krautner

            Command performance. Do you do “stay, sit and roll over”, too ?

          • So What

            Command performance. Do you do “swallow, spit, and bend over”, too ?

          • Karl Krautner

            You might want to read up on the term… 😉

          • Joe Pullman

            He is a total and complete idiot.

          • Real Guest

            Really, what is wrong with you? Did you take your medication today? Calm down.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            you are delusional

            Karl Krautner can’t help himself. He has to defend cops being violent no matter how asinine.

          • Joshua Teks Fritz

            you could if your gun was already out, like theirs were.

          • Logic

            Your theory has repeatedly been proven false.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            The average reaction time is .5 seconds?

            So the fact that the officers already had their guns drawn doesn’t play in to this at all?

            Jesus, that’s a brilliant lie, but when the officer already has their gun out, it makes the brilliance of the lie really shine brightly so we can all see it. Thanks for pointing that out, Karl.

            Why don’t you point out how, out of all the officers on the ODMP from the past 3 years, none have ever been shot in the line of duty in circumstances such as this by a suicidal person who was contacted by police. The only times an officer has been killed under these circumstances, they were ambushed, and killed without ever having made any contact with the shooter.

            No orders for hands going up, etc. No reaction time questions.

            You’re taking the shit straight out of Dr. Lewinski’s mouth and regurgitating it from your rectum, but it still doesn’t make it any less of a shitty thing to do, excusing murderers.

          • Karl Krautner

            “So the fact that the officers already had their guns drawn doesn’t play in to this at all?”

            Sure it does. That is my hole point. Once the gun is drawn, the time for one person with a drawn gun to squeeze the trigger, is an average .4s shorter then the other person’s reaction time to it. This is precisely why law enforcement officers are being trained to never let you pull a gun and to shoot you within seconds if you hold one and disregard commands to drop it. Once a suspect is allowed to pull, raise, point the gun they would be able to shoot another person before that person knows it just happened.

            As for your coprophile rantings: They are getting old, though I’m sure you are giggling like a little school-girl each time you write another one.

          • Douglas Wade Beatty

            Check the video again, “GIVE ME YOUR HANDS SHOW ME YOUR HANDS” one thousand one BANG! Go ahead and justify the first shotgun blast and tell me how well you normally respond bleeding from the head due to a close range shotgun blast, of course knowing what it’s like being paralyzed for ten years.

          • Karl Krautner

            I might agree with you about those first shots, but it matters little. Once he reach for the gun in his pocket, police were justified in shooting him.

          • Douglas Wade Beatty

            So it’s okay to incapacitate a suspect unlawfully then shoot them for being impaired by a shotgun blast that causes their head to bleed? But in most states, if the arresting officer uses excessive force that
            could cause “great bodily harm,” the arrestee has the right to defend
            him or herself. Here is a link to start with, law library is hard to get to in some States for non lawyers and online isn’t always accurate but it’s closer than your position stated IMHO http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/resisting-arrest-when-police-use-excessive-force.html

          • Karl Krautner

            It’s “okea” for a law enforcement officer to use lethal force against a person, if that person refuses to raise his hands, but instead reaches for a concealed weapon.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            FFS… your hole point?

            And you wonder why we ask you to quote your sources? Where are these numbers, do they apply to cops after training them to be better than the typical civilian, etc.?

            Gave you a perfectly good opportunity to explain yourself, and you come back with “That is my hole point”.

            Everybody point at Karl’s asshole, now, because he said so. Oh, and you forgot a fucking comma.

            I’m assuming you meant your asshole, Karl, or were you referring to some other hole that you do or don’t enjoy spewing feces from?

          • Karl Krautner

            /ignore coprophile rant
            /queue coprophile feeling unignored
            /enjoy lunch time

          • Yevon Jenkins

            Average reaction time is between 200ms-250ms.

          • Karl Krautner

            Under normal conditions in a stress-free environment. Read the following:

            “Tobin and Fackler [Ref. 3] found the average human reaction time for police
            officers to mentally justify firing their pistols during a simple decision-making
            scenario of 0.211 seconds. The same officers in a complex scenario took 0.895
            seconds.”
            http://www.povn.com/4n6/RctnTm.pdf

            This is where my estimate avg. of for .5s for an officer in this kind of scenario
            comes from – half way between the best and worst case scenario.

      • Clint Jaysiel

        When someone shoots themself, the proper way for a society to respond is NOT to surround him with more people with guns willing to shoot him for having the gun.

        Other countries don’t do that. That’s strictly america.

        The best reason is “it’s not fucking necessary”.

        Do you jump in the lion cage at a zoo, shoot the lion for attacking you, and say ‘there’s no reason to not kill a lion that is about to attack you’? It would be self defense, but YOU would be the asshole who made it necessary.

        If you don’t get that metaphor, you might just BE that asshole.

        • Karl Krautner

          This lion was not in a cage. He was roaming the wild.

          “If you don’t get that metaphor, you might just BE that asshole.”

          If you don’t get that we can’t have suicidal people roaming the streets with guns, you might just be the asshole.

          • Egg Roll Chang

            “If you don’t get that we can’t have suicidal people roaming the streets with guns, you might just be the asshole.”

            Precisely. Suicidal people with deadly weapons are quite literally the most dangerous people. Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more perfect reply to a flawed premise.

          • Karl Krautner

            Why? Because you, with all your expertise in psychology and your insight into the suicidal mind believe that a suicidal person will not hurt others to die? How did that “flawed presmise” work out for German Wings?

          • Egg Roll Chang

            Whoa, take it easy. I was completely agreeing with you. (I know context is difficult when reading words on a screen. Lol.) The flawed premise was Clint Jaysiels and not yours. My point was that when you’re suicidal and have a deadly weapon like a gun, you are the most dangerous threat because there is nothing left to lose. You’re planning to die anyway so why does it matter if someone else dies along with you?

          • Karl Krautner

            The words are fine. The placement sucked. if you want to have your words taken as a response to something someone said, you need to respond to that someone. Otherwise it reads like sarcasm.

            Either way, good to see someone else gets it here.

          • Egg Roll Chang

            Point taken.

          • Svlad Cjelli

            jesus.

          • raythemixer

            Here is a response… READING COMPREHENSION… get some… here is another… you’re being a dick.

          • Karl Krautner

            If you want to feel like a real idiot, read the comment of the person I responded to. They seem to think there was a point to my comment.

            “Being A Dick”

            Maybe. But at least I’m not being a fascist dick calling for people not agreeing with me to be murdered.

          • Yevon Jenkins

            Karl you are trying so hard to a psychological expert that you’ve lost touch of some of your emotions. I’m sure you already know that because if you understand the mindset of a suicidal person so well then yours should fall into another category too of your type.

            Maybe for once you should come back to us, the people. Think about the guy in the wheelchair, understand we don’t know what he has been through, what life has thrown his way. The police SOP justifies the shooting but was there really no other way? I am not a fan of executing sick people nor am I fan of sick people with guns. Unlike you know I understand see both sides of the spectrum. Sorry you don’t.

          • Karl Krautner

            I do understand “both sides of the spectrum”. I would’ve preferred a different outcome (read through the thread and see me writing it twice already). Yet, the point is not what I want or what tough life he had. The only thing that matters, when you are in front of him, knowing that he has a gun, is that you do not let him raise that hand again that was just in his pocket. If you don’t understand that, I can’t help you.

          • ClintJCL

            And the number of people killed by suicidal people with guns per year is _______________?

            Yeah. Idealism, meet reality.

          • Egg Roll Chang

            I don’t have the exact number of murder-suicides last year. I’m sure it’s up there. You could research it if you truly care to find out. The Virginia Tech massacre, the Sandy Hook massacre, the Colombine massacre all come to mind of tragedies where suicidal people kill others.

            Just a few months ago that disgruntled ex-news anchor shot his colleagues during the live broadcast. It happens. Suicidal people with guns are the most dangerous types. They have nothing to lose and nothing that can be used to reason with them.

          • ClintJCL

            The exact number of murder-suicides wouldn’t even be a relevant, comparison since most of those are contained in a single family residence and never out in public or any threat to the public.

            But I get it.

            You don’t have a single clue about the number.

            You’re just spouting fear without any evidence for how founded it is.

            Gotcha.

          • ClintJCL

            Again, Virginia Tech massacre has nothing to do with this. Did the cops talk to the guy who did that, and fail to shoot him? No. They were never involved. You have to compare situations where police talk to a suicidal person, and their failure to shoot at suicidal person caused members of the public to die. THAT is the comparison.

            And, once that comparison is made, I think you will find that police shoot a higher number of suicidal people than the number discussed in the above paragraph.

            And, were I to be wrong, and it were to turn out that the suicidal people actually did kill more than the police, that *STILL* would not be justification for the police doing what they did. That would be justification for *YOU* doing that in a situation. Trained taxpayer-funded professionals are supposed to have better solutions.

            And in fact they do – in every first world country that isn’t america.

            And no, it’s not because we have so much crime. Our violent crime is at a 40 year low while our police-on-civilian shootings are at an all time high.

            As an unrelated aside:
            If you dig deeper, remove suicides, remove the 80% of murders where the parties know each other, and look at just stranger-gun-homicides… Police do it more than all criminals combined. Again, only in america. We aren’t unique in having crime. We are unique in our solution.

        • Chasity Chenaille

          At least he’ll go to heaven now. If the cops shoot, it makes it not a suicide, right?

          • Karl Krautner

            First 48, heaven? What’s next? Tír na nÓg? Cockaigne?

          • So What

            It’s suicide by cop. His mind set was still the same

      • Karl Krautner

        Facts? They don’t matter. Only hate matters here.

        • non-@ttorney spokesperson

          “Karl Krautner raythemixer • a day ago
          Thank you for making my point: The officers told the man repeatedly to raise his arms. When he instead went for his pocket, to pull out the gun, at which point the officers would loose the advantage, they fired.”
          I named my dog Advantage. He got loose.
          I’m starting a new company for you called “Rescue my Sentence”. That’ll be 50 dollars.

          • Real Guest

            Periods never belong outside of quotation marks, and title case calls for the capitalization of possessive pronouns. It’s properly “Rescue My Sentence.”

            That’ll be $10,000.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            Wow. The difference between level 1 (50$) and level 2 (10K) tech support. I never knew.

            I tend to go for more hard core fuck ups, when people just completely go balls deep and advertise their ignorance, like forgetting a word where it obviously belongs, or using the wrong word completely, as I pointed out here.

            The point is not to be a grammazi, but rather to be humorous about the offensive error.

            Hence, my reversal of loose and lose, or if I would have perhaps called Karl a “Looser” or something like that.

            Improper word choice or forgetting to proofread obvious stuff? That’s funny.

            A comma, or lack, thereof, is, generally, not funny. Neither is an “m” without capitalization. You did serve a valuable purpose to me, though. For that, sir, kudos. Your 10,000 dollar e-check should arrive just in time to purchase your solid gold-plated unicorn saddle.

          • Real Guest

            Sweet! The sterling silver one I already have is getting tarnished.

            (Agreed on all points BTW.)

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            Wholly glaring errors, Batman!

        • Joe Pullman

          And your stupidity doesn’t matter here either. So go away with you pathetic comments. Cops have killed over 2700 people since 2013. More than the number of soldiers who have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001. You pathetic loser.

          • Karl Krautner

            And this matters how and why in the context of this thread? How many of the 2700 were convicted felons? How many were convicted felons in killed in the commission of a crime? How many were attacking police? How many were attacking innocents? How many had just committed murder?

            The number and the comparison means nothing. There were no 88 guns per capita in Afghanistan. There were no 320,000,000 people in Afghanistan. And there were no 30,000,000 crimes in Afghanistan in that period of time.

          • ClintJCL

            Violent crime in america is at a 40 year low while police killing citizens is at a 40 year high. Stop pretending like there’s a correlation. There isn’t. If you have to result to false comparisons like that, it kinda indicates that you know just how full of shit you are.

          • Karl Krautner

            Except that Joe Pullman’s post and ergo my reply was were not about the crime rate, thus I’m not pretending anything. However, to say that “police killing citizens is at a 40-year high”, is wrong on several levels. As I noted before, we don’t even know who of the nearly 900 killed so far were citizens and that there is no clear pattern to determine. 2014 had more persons killed by police then this year, 2013 was about half of that and 2011 was about the same as 2014 – in other words it fluctuates wildly.

            But my main point was really the apples-and-oranges comparison between a war and crime in the US and the fact that anyone bringing up this statistic neglects to analyze who got killed under what circumstance.

            As usual, the local cop haters can only see one reason for all: Cops are bad and want to kill. No regard is given to new technology, that might allow police to confront more criminals or the changes in gun laws over the last decade, that have made guns even more ubiquitous and easier to come by than before. Nuh, it can only be that cops are out of control, because Carlos and Grant write that it is so, and they never lie… 😉

      • Michael Blitch

        “However, witnesses and family members are not disputing the claim he had a gun.”

      • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

        So what if he had a gun?

        • non-@ttorney spokesperson

          Speaking of which… isn’t the police department still the most prolific producer of suicidal people in America?

          All police officers should have to have a weekly polygraph to determine if they are suicidal.

          Especially since police officers do not generally have the luxury of “suicide by cop” due to the Fat Blue Line, they are so much more dangerous than the typical suicidal person, and the problem must be dealt with.

          It might also have helped prevent the Tampa Theater shootings from a few years ago, when a piece of shit, angry asshole, retired cop, after being assaulted with popcorn, decided his little p-ego had been hurt so much, someone needed to die.,

          Or, could the copsuckers just admit that usually suicidal police officers just eat their own gun and don’t take out a bunch of people with them, right? So why are suicidal police officers, who, again, are the most suicidal group of people in America, to be treated so much differently than everyday suicidal people who aren’t cops?

          I would say they should be treated the same, in the end. Maybe this would be an appropriate time to begin the discussion on anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medication, the connection to suicidal and homicidal behavior contained therein, and the incredibly high numbers of law enforcement officers who are, in effect, policing while high as a kite.

  • Happy Tinfoil Cat

    Nice grouping though, right?

  • xiang

    The Police Murderer Squad. What else is new.

  • Joe Pullman

    Pathetic. Shoot to kill is the current Motto of Police Departments Nation wide. When you watch the First 48, the detectives always tell the families that there was NO REASON that anyone should die for what they are doing, their past or present activities don’t make it right to be murdered. Yet the cops in this country believe that it’s okay to shoot to kill on a daily basis. 1000 Citizens of the United States have been slaughtered at the hands of cops this year so far. On target to be one of the worst years in the past three. More American Citizens have been killed by cops in this country since 2013 than our troops have been killed in the 14 years of the War in Afghanistan. Sickening and disgusting.

    • Karl Krautner

      “1000 Citizens of the United States have been slaughtered at the hands of cops this year so far.”

      Not even close. Less then 900 and I am reasonably sure that a good percentage were not U.S. Citizens.

      “Watch the First 48”

      Because A&E has it right and Police on the street should let themselves be shot, because you watched “First 48”?

      “More American Citizens have been killed by cops in this country since
      2013 than our troops have been killed in the 14 years of the War in
      Afghanistan.”

      Even more wrong than the first silly statement. U.S. Casualties in Afghanistan have been over 2300.

      • Joe Pullman

        Ah wrong dumbo. In Afghanistan we have had 2364 killed since 2001. On the street of America 2750 have been killed by police since 2013. Topping the deaths in Afghanistan in 3 short years. So of course you are a dope and a fool. And of course you spin what I said because you are a stupid clown. Your comment is of course wrong.

    • Sensachanelme

      Yes, watch the first 48 and make all your assumptions from there. Please. #wheelchairlivesmatter

      • non-@ttorney spokesperson

        Please, don’t be a hypocrite, and ask Karl Krautner to source his statistics as well.

        0.5 seconds average reaction time? 0.1 seconds to pull a hammer? Ask the NYC cops if it’s as simple as that…

  • So What

    Put said cops on the end of a rope and anyone condoning these murdering bastards actions deserve a bullet straight into their heads

    • Karl Krautner

      I get the rage of the impotent computer bully against the cops. But what’s with the fascist babble about wanting to murder people for their opinions? Heil PINAC! We threaten cops and all who think the wrong thoughts.

      • So What

        Condoning isn’t an opinion but rather an action of justification. That makes them a murderer too. They might as well pulled the trigger themselves. Murderers belong on the end of ropes. Sooooooo, if you condone these cops actions, then you too belong on the end of a rope, swinging with the evil that lives amongst us. Whoa to those who call evil good and good evil. May they forever perish in the fiery rubble of brimstone that thrives in hell. Looks like you’re a Murderer. Sieg Heil Furor Krautner. Condone – to cause the condonation of; justify the pardoning of (an offense). <~~~~~ SEE… I told you it wasn't an opinion… DUMBASS!!!

        • Karl Krautner

          “Condoning isn’t an opinion”

          Yes it is – by definition.

          “They might as well pulled the trigger themselves.”

          No. They expressed an opinion.

          “Murderers belong on the end of ropes.”

          Impotent bullies belong behind a keyboard.

          “You too belong on the end of a rope”

          I thought I get a bullet for my opinion.

          “Furor”

          That would be “Führer” to you.

          “DUMBASS!!!”

          How ironic… 😉

          • So What

            You’re an idiot…

          • Svlad Cjelli

            Brilliant. As is your idea that you have to shoot a cop before they can shoot you. Your avatar is perfect.

          • Karl Krautner

            Says the blood-thirsty fascist, who wants to shoot people with different opinions.

          • So What

            I don’t want to shoot you… I’d rather have the cops do it for me

          • Karl Krautner

            I didn’t kill anyone, nor have I called for anyone to be killed – unlike you.

            /begin German lesson
            Erstens “gibt” man sich die Kugel und zweitens wäre es der Selbstmörder, nicht der Mörder, welcher sich die Kugel gäbe.
            /end German lesson

            As for the Fascist: If you don’t like the label, don’t act the part.

          • Kimberly Kennedy

            funny how you spout of german and call others fascists. are you a member of a white supremacy or similar hate group?

          • Karl Krautner

            Funny how you equate German speakers with Fascists, but not those wanting to murder others not sharing their opinions. Are you member of a home for the morbidly moronic?

          • So What

            Call me what you will. Sticks and stones bitch

          • Karl Krautner

            Wow, Google Translate doesn’t seem to work for you. I love it when “Christians” first claim to be “of God” and then drift off into homophobic rants about all the things that they want to do or done with my rear end. Have you met “FTG”, yet? You guys are made for each other… 😉

          • So What

            Bwahahahahahahahahaha…. I don’t use google. But now I know you do

          • parthenogene

            * Idiot *

          • So What

            Time to look in the mirror

          • parthenogene

            Bye Felicia…

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            You are okay with shooting people for having a gun.

          • Karl Krautner

            I’m “okay” with people having a gun on there person and having had ample time to comply with officers’ lawful orders to raise their hands, yet having gone for their pocket which is said to have concealed a gun, to have been shot before they could shoot others.

        • parthenogene

          *Führer* …and you’re calling someone else a dumbass…lol…

          • So What

            Getting one word wrong doesn’t constitute being a dumbass… Sticking up for murderers who kill and say it was justifiable makes you a complete one. Whoa to those who call evil good and good evil. When Christ comes back, he wont be sticking daisies in your asses. He’ll be swinging a sword against you

    • James M Morriss

      Please, do not advocate “straight into the head.” Evey one knows it is at a downward angle.

  • Chasity Chenaille

    #wheelchairlivesmatter

    • Karl Krautner

      #alllifematters

      • Sensachanelme

        Well, duh.

        • Karl Krautner

          No, #wellduh… !

          • Sensachanelme

            Lol, was beginning to think you had NO sense of humor.

      • #stopkilling

        As you sit here defending the snuffing out of life.

        • Karl Krautner

          And I did this how?

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            Like a copsucker.

          • Karl Krautner

            Dodging the question?

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            Disclosing your repertoire?

      • Kimberly Kennedy

        not according to your rants, it doesn’t.

        • Karl Krautner

          Show me the “rant” in which I say that one live is worth than another.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            I’ll show you the rant where you get so pissed off you forget the word “more”. Hint, look up.

          • Karl Krautner

            I can show you one where you forgot the comma, again. Hint, look up.

          • Real Guest

            I’ve heard of online discussions devolving into name calling, but devolving into a heated debate over obvious, forgivable typos is a new one.

            Now shake hands and call each other idiots, you two.

            No wait. That’s not it. Shake hands and discuss the actual argument at hand.

          • Real Guest

            And just so I’m actually contributing:

            1) I don’t see a gun in the video. That doesn’t mean the man in the wheelchair didn’t have a gun.

            2) I think cops in general don’t do a good enough job of de-escalating a situation. If they see a gun, of course they should fire in self defense. If they don’t see a gun, back off and talk down.

            3) I can’t tell what happened here, except that a man died, which is tragic.

          • Karl Krautner

            Correct. Officers were told he was armed and told him to raise his hands. In response he maneuvered himself to the front of his chair and reach into his pocket (I posted the still in this thread). That’s when he was shot.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            Your still shows a man in a wheelchair. It does not show anything that warrants being shot.

          • Karl Krautner

            My still shows the exact moment the officers started firing at him, because he reached in his pocket instead of his arms. Your rewording shows clearly that you now see his hand in his pocket and know that I was right all along.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            >> …I was right all along.

            It does not show anything that warrants being shot. I have not changed my wording.

            Your police officer friends are murderers.

          • Karl Krautner

            It shows a man, known to posses a gun and having been ordered to raise his hands, to reach into his pocket. That does warrant him being shot in this country.

            “Your police officer friends are murderers.”

            I have no police officers in my circles, that I know of. I also don’t know anyone having committed a murder.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            It shows a man, known to posses a gun and having been ordered to raise his hands, to reach into his pocket. That does warrant him being shot in this country.

            There is nothing in the picture that is not typical of a person in a wheelchair. Shooting commences while “put your hands…” is said.

            None of what you have, or is shown in the video, provides any cover for a shooting.

            However, the person in the wheelchair would have been justified in self defense.

            I have no police officers in my circles, that I know of. I also don’t know anyone having committed a murder.
            Could be a coincidence…

          • Karl Krautner

            I didn’t say it is not typical for a man in wheelchair to put his hand in is pocket. It also isn’t untypical for a man on a gun range to discharge his firearm or for a man in a sports stadium to start sprinting. However, all three provide a reason and defense for law enforcement officers to use lethal force against that man, if he had been ordered previously to raise his arms.

            “Could be a coincidence”

            It probably is, as I don’t judge people by their profession. However, it is yet another proof of your rants being meaningless ad hominem against a person you know next to nothing about.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            “However, it is yet another proof of your rants being meaningless ad hominem against a person you know next to nothing about.”

            Like you calling umpteen posters delusional?

            Richard Dawson: “100 people surveyed… top 5 answers on the board… name something people use as an ad hominem attack on the internet…

            Mama Krautner: “Crazy!”

            Richard Dawson: “Show me … crazy” DING DING DING

            “Number one answer, the Krautners take control of the board”

          • Karl Krautner

            Like you calling umpteen posters feces eating horror movie creatures?

            Besides, writing “at least I haven’t deluded myself into believing…” is hardly “calling umpteen posters delusional”, nor is it anywhere near the same as calling”police friends” I do not have and which the poster cannot know “murderers”.

            Aren’t you running out of stones yet in your glass house?

          • 2nd Amendment

            If seeing a gun means fire in self-defense, then a lot of police officers are going to have a rough ride.

          • Real Guest

            I said police officers. Not everyone in general, obviously.

            I could’ve worded my statement better to say “If police officers see an individual using a gun in a threatening manner and/or failing to drop said gun after clearly giving them an opportunity to, then yes they can fire in self defense, though they have a duty to make sure the person they’re shooting is actually holding a gun as well as heard and understood their commands.”

            I wonder if the proponents of the belief that the 2nd Amendment has no introductory dependent clause realize that cops in the US would probably be a lot more mellow and less likely to kill people if guns weren’t so prevalent.

          • Karl Krautner

            There is no heated argument here. Just one person not having any arguments and correcting grammar and another pointing out how he shouldn’t even start… 😉

          • Kimberly Kennedy

            this whole thread of your nutty rants.

          • Karl Krautner

            I take that’s a no, since you cannot point at a specific post in which I would sad that. Figures.

      • Kimberly Kennedy

        that’s a lie. i’ve seen your other posts. you have a cop fetish, don’t you?

        • Karl Krautner

          I have a fetish for the rule of law, the right to self-defense and for facts. Since this board’s run and frequented by people, who have serious issues with all three, it might seem that way to you. There is a German joke about this kind of perception. It goes something like this: “A man is driving on the autobahn, listening to the radio, when the program is interrupted: ‘To all drivers on the A-5. There is a wrong-way driver heading north between Giessen and Kassel.’ As the man hears that he shakes is head and exclaims: ‘ONE??? Hundreds!'”

          I’m not for or against cops and I don’t condone violence. I do however live in the reality of a country in which over 250 million guns are in circulation, three murder happen every day and 10,000 other crimes are committed every day, and not in Cockainge where rivers of milk and honey flow or some parallel universe where unicorns prance across blue plains of grass under green skies. As such, I am aware of officers being called to a scene with a mentally disturbed man with a gun, getting this man to disarm and protection innocent bystanders is job number one. A man reaching into his pocket after multiple warnings to raise his hands is simply unacceptable. Any delay on the part of the officers will endanger themselves and thus their ability to protect bystanders.

          I didn’t want this man to die and I didn’t want those officers to kill him. But if you carry a gun, discharge it, then are told by police to raise your arms and you reach in your pocket, being shot by police isn’t murder and you were not a victim.

          • Kimberly Kennedy

            TMI

          • Karl Krautner

            For a moment I forgot that I write to the queen of one-liners and not to a person wanting to have a serious discussion. It wont happen again… 😉

          • Kimberly Kennedy

            that’s because half the stuff you write is unintelligible and contradictory. again, i’ve read your posts. If your not spouting off in German or accusing people of having shit fetishes, you’re grandstanding with some self-deluded attempt at higher consciousness. So it’s kinda hard to think for even a second that there would ever be a desire for a discussion as you claim. You’re all over the place, and you have a hard time knowing when to leave well enough alone. i’m sorry that you are so lonely that you have to basically incite people to engage, but I’ve got other things that I need to do. So good luck with whatever it is your trying to achieve, and you can take that parting comment either seriously or sarcastically, depending on the nature of your goals. Over and out.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            I have a fetish for the rule of law

            No, you don’t. You excuse violence that breaks the law when a police officer does it. Your mistake is equating the acts of people in blue costumes with the rule of law.

          • Karl Krautner

            One of your mistakes is that you do not read nor comprehend anything you determine is not compatible with your opinion. Another of your mistakes is that you believe you know the law better than everybody else. Your final mistake is that you think you can simply lie about others’ stated opinions to make your own “right”.

  • Smiles

    I am starting to believe that many of our police officers here in America are still in Iraq carrying out their mission.

  • Karl Krautner

    I am sure those two characters meant something right before you put them on a WordPress blog not supporting them.

    • Sensachanelme

      Well, yes. I was clapping and then gave you a fist-bump. Sorry, new to this.

      • Svlad Cjelli

        “Karl” doesn’t take particularly well to people agreeing with him.
        And people keep apologizing, as if he isn’t the crank.

        • Real Guest

          In fairness to Karl, most people that frequent the comments section here blindly attack anyone that remotely defends even the most defensible actions of cops. Those people use a lot of sarcasm and childish name calling tactics.

          This particular post is different, however. There seem to be a lot of rational people here that are not only having a discussion based on the facts of the situation, but many saying the cops didn’t do anything wrong. Very unusual on this site.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            In fairness to the other readers and posters besides Karl, most of the posts to PINAC that are more obviously “cops gone wild” never see a reply from the folks that defend even the most indefensible actions of cops.

            Posts about the Boston Cop caught jacking off in a parking lot don’t seem to see many posts from Karl and the like. Many times the sarcasm you see is the delight at pointing out hypocrisy on the part of Karl and posters like him.

            Karl is actually the most intellectually capable member of what I like to refer to as the HC, if you want some better examples of truly insane defenses of improper police behavior and tactics go read some SmashAnarchy or Logic postings.

          • Real Guest

            It’s unfortunate that the discussion is so polarized, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be nice if the rational people on the board could actually have a give and take conversation without constant harassment and chime-ins from extremists that favor the execution or disbanding of police as an institution?

            I often disagree with SmashAnarchy and Logic just as I often disagree with some of the more rational rhetoric from the majority opinion here. And yet, on posts where I don’t even weigh in on the article I’m instantly attacked because I defended police actions on another post. So even if I do weigh in on how inappropriate it is for a cop to be masturbating in his patrol car, I’m still going to be attacked. Case in point: On a recent post I indicated how inappropriate a cop’s actions were, and I was attacked because I wasn’t calling for that cop’s immediate execution. Ugh. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

            I’m not sure I know what “HC” is, btw.

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            HC = Human Copsuckeripede. Contrivance. When I noticed that just about 90% of the “copsucker” post had been initiated by a set of 3 posters, I created this tool to describe the process of degradation of opinion and clarity between the three of them. This way we can just say HC without having to constantly use the – somewhat offensive to fans of Monica Lewinsky – term, “copsucker”

            There are quite a few people here that I’m sure never post for fear of going through what you have. Granted, you should take any attack here with a grain of salt, but it shouldn’t mean you should have to suffer with personal attacks that weren’t instigated by you.

            I have yet to be called out on my failure to demand execution of PD, but I think I took care of that, when I demanded in one of my first posts that a police chief who had betrayed his oath, by defending police officers who were breaking the law, be put on trial for treason and sentenced to death.

            I still don’t think anyone caught on that I was attacking the death penalty as a moronic, broken tool, and that a life sentence in prison is far worse for either a traitor or a terrorist.

            We’re just showing we have a long way to go as a nation when we can’t see that a more appropriate sentence for Tsarnaev is spending 60 years in SuperMax than spending 6 minutes on Valium going to sleep, in a more kind and gentle way than we euthanize sick pets.

        • raythemixer

          true… he is what we call an asshole… Everyone is wrong but him.

  • dannyboy7796

    OK, so let me get this straight. The Officers were told he was trying to commit suicide, so they turn up with weapons drawn and tell him they will shoot him if he continues to try to kill himself.

    Instead of non-fatally shooting him or incapacitating him, they fire several lethal shots into him. Killing him, to stop him from killing himself.

    Nice way of trying to stop someone from committing suicide, guys.

    Really, really effective.

    • Karl Krautner

      No. They were called to a scene of a mentally disturbed person with a lethal weapon and needed to prevent that person from harming innocent bystanders.

      • dannyboy7796

        ‘She said police officers on scene told her he was trying to commit suicide and refused to drop the weapon he was going to use.’

        According to the police officer ‘he was trying to kill himself’

        So they knew.

        • Karl Krautner

          Yes, they knew that the man was mentally disturbed (suicidal) and in possession of a lethal weapon (handgun). Your point?

          • dannyboy7796

            My point is he was unlikely to be shooting anyone else just himself.

            You know the difference between suicidal and homicidal, right?

          • Karl Krautner

            “My point is he was unlikely to be shooting anyone else just himself.”

            My point is that he was mentally disturbed and had a lethal weapon and that with a lethal weapon “unlikely” is not good enough.

            “You know the difference between suicidal and homicidal, right?”

            I do. Do you know the difference it will make to the parents of a child that gets killed by a bullet from his gun?

          • IceTrey

            I didn’t see any children. You’re saying it was impossible for the cops to evacuate any civilians and set up.a perimeter while they tried to talk him down?

          • Karl Krautner

            While he was reaching for the gun?

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            While he was reaching for the gun?

            When?

          • Karl Krautner
          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            A wheelchair with a left and right arm rest. The victim’s hands are in a typical location for a person in a wheelchair.. No reaching in evidence.

          • Karl Krautner

            You might want to ask you money back from your optometrist. The hand is in his pocket. You can see the seam and pocket bulging as half of his had is covered by it.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            There is nothing in the picture that is not typical of a person in a wheelchair. It does not provide any cover for a shooting.

          • So What

            Karl justifies his murder based on the assumption that he might have harmed another individual. Might have

          • Svlad Cjelli

            “My point is he was unlikely to be shooting anyone else just himself”
            – why was it unlikely? Because that is your assumption? That he was a swell guy, who wouldn’t hurt anybody?

          • non-@ttorney spokesperson

            No, because suicidal people usually are overly compassionate and only want to harm themselves, and have an over 70% chance of being nothing but someone crying out for attention.

            The truly anti-human nut who wants to take a bunch of people out in a blaze of glory doesn’t announce his intentions ahead of time… sheeeeeeeesh.

            Yes, I had to bring suicide bombers in to the equation. If this guy was really the dangerous bastard that the cops absolutely needed to shoot… they’d have never gotten the chance, as the wheelchair loaded with 10 pounds of Thermite obliterated everything in a 100 foot radius.

            I’m listening to my friend who just got back from Afghanistan tell me how they were constantly avoiding having to kill people under the similar, but more dangerous, circumstances. He and I share a lot of laughs as to how the poor police are constantly “forced” to kill people. My friend tells me it’s therapeutic.

          • Joe Pullman

            He’s a troll who believes it’s okay for cops to murder indiscriminately and without remorse.

      • Joe Pullman

        Pffft so murder is your answer I see now, you are a pathetic fool

        • Karl Krautner

          There was no murder.

          • Joe Pullman

            In your feeble mind its okay to murder you stupid clown.

          • Karl Krautner

            There was not murder.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            Ignoring what the cops did does not make it go away.

          • Karl Krautner

            Using the same word over and over does not make the legal facts conform to your fantasy either.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            The people are aware how when police officers commit murder the legal system (and cop apologists) cover for them and pretend it is not murder. You are what you are.

          • Karl Krautner

            The “people” were aware of “bombs” going of in the WTC on 9/11, “unmarked jets firing rockets at the Pentagon”, FEMA “concentration camps”, as well as a “second gunman on the grassy knoll” in 1963. That does not make either any more real then unicorns or that a man shoot in a wheel chair because he reached for a gun would be a “murder”.

    • Fonzy

      Non fatally shot him? What were they gonna do………shoot him in the leg?

    • Karl Krautner

      He was shot because he was armed and would not raise his hands as ordered.

      • Joe Pullman

        They murdered him, plain and simple. No reason to shoot to kill you stupid clown.

        • Karl Krautner

          No. The shot him because he reached for a gun.

      • Loise Lunsfords

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  • Schlitz Stop

    Your patch is wrong.

  • Susan Pamerleau

    Why did they shoot him?

  • olivia

    The officers could have surrounded him.

  • Yazoodle

    Youtube took the video down, Here is a link to it. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c6e_1443096298

  • king0333

    amazing to see how police acts in america.. they alway act like the alleged victim is some trained Navy Seal and they have to neutralize him immediately

  • Рон Джамин

    WTF what that?

  • David Saint

    i love this new tactic of claiming people want to die by cops. while im sure in some cases that might be the case, it seems they are using it much like the “your cell phone could be a weapon” line

    • Real Guest

      “Suicide by cop” is not a new concept. There are numerous examples of it.

      • David Saint

        like i said, im sure that there are legit circumstances. But, it seems like they are using it as a convenient cop out at other times…like the guy in La Paz CA the cops shot for holding a towel for example.

  • Police State

    He initiated no force or aggression against anyone else.

    The police officers murdered him.

  • CatchDatFatCat

    Don’t kill yourself or we will kill you. Brilliant cop thinking.
    Gutless uncompassionate killers. These guys are itchy to kill. Just give them barely enough justification and they will take a life like it’s a sport for them. Animals.

    • Body Cams

      No justification, in this case.

  • hazy

    The video quality is terrible. This whole website has become a clusterfuck of ads and redundant links.

    • Brian Folks

      Adblock Plus FTW

      • Real Guest

        Adblock Plus deprives the publisher of money. And that’s the problem. Carlos adds more ads, so more people install ad blockers, so he deprives himself of more money.

  • haz

    OMG! MURDERERS!

    • God

      More cop apologists downplaying violence because the violent ones are the police officers. I should do something about that.

  • Police State

    This is a good article to help you understand how police lie when they use force with no cause.

    How and why New Jersey police are attempting to frame an unarmed 14-year-old they shot seven times

  • yomammaaho

    Here’s a solution.
    POST these pig’s home addresses. Simple!

  • Douglas Wade Beatty

    latest story at delaware online reports that family and witnesses are contesting that ‘Bam’ was armed. Check the video stills at Daily Mail, you can’t see a gun in the chair when he falls. I really really want to see the crime scene photo of the gun ‘in situ’.

  • So What

    People who condone the murdering of this man deserve none other than the death penalty… I’m looking at you Karl

  • Joe Pullman

    Trolls are alive and well on here, it’s name is Kaul the Kraut, and a member of the KKK.

    • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

      Anytime a police officer murders somebody he is okay with it.

      He does his best to make up excuses for cop violence.

      • Karl Krautner

        I love my groupies… 😉

        • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

          You love defending police officers who murder. Wink all you want.

          Why recording the police is so important

          • Karl Krautner

            You got most of the words right, but the order is FUBAR: I love defending the right of police officers nut to be murdered.

            I also love pointing out lies, like yours, that he didn’t reach into his pocket.

          • Karl Krautner = cop apologist

            You got most of the words right, but the order is FUBAR: I love defending the right of police officers nut to be murdered.

            Low hanging fruit?

            I also love pointing out lies, like yours, that he didn’t reach into his pocket.

            The person in the wheelchair was shot without a precipitating cause. You can speculate on whatever else you want to believe happened all you want. You are still a defender of police officers committing murder.

    • Karl Krautner

      “Member of the KKK”

      If you mean the Karl Krautner Klub, yes, I’m not just a member, I’m also the president…;)

  • Body Cams

    Where are the body cams?

  • steve618

    We see in the video that the man made a few attempts to rise from the wheelchair by pushing up on the armrests. How does one comply with police orders to “drop the gun”, when the gun is not actually being held in his hands?
    Perhaps he had the presence of mind to know they would shoot him if he touched the gun, so he attempted to get it to slide off of his lap by raising himself in his wheelchair (without success). Perhaps he then thought he could use his hands to remove the gun from his lap if he did so without holding it by the grip or pointing it at anyone (a fatal error).
    Why didn’t he put his hands up? I don’t know. Perhaps his injuries, or the pain made that too difficult for him.

    • Murder caught on camera

      Why didn’t he put his hands up? I don’t know.

      He is being shot in the same moment the police verbalizes a “put your hands” command.

    • whitewolf60

      Well, if I’d have seen your comment before I posted mine, I could’ve saved some typing : )

  • Execution

    The local police department could afford to send a firing squad for a single suicidal person in a wheelchair, but not equip one of them with a body-worn camera?

  • American Police State

    Cops Strip, Parade, Pepper Spray Woman And Lock Her In Cell For Seven Hours

    …video emerged of police officers forcibly stripping her and locking her up, completely naked, in a cell full of pepper spray for seven hours.

    Worse still, the woman’s attorney believes that this is routine procedure at the facility and has evidence that other women are consistently given the same treatment … the events that unfolded … need to be reviewed by a court of law.

    “Almost immediately upon entering the jail, she’s assaulted by four officers. They grab her around the neck, they grab her body … They hold her down … There are two male officers and two female officers and they forcibly remove her pants, her shoes, her underwear and her shirt and bra.”

  • whitewolf60

    The one fly in the ointment I see here, is that at least one of the officers initially keeps requesting that the suspect “drop the gun” which he apparently DOESN’T have in his hands, but rather, supposedly, in his pocket or waistband. In order to “drop the gun”, he would first have to grasp it.

    Towards the end of the video, the officers seem to transition exclusively to to “hands up”, which seems more appropriate, but might be difficult to comply with or even comprehend, if he had already taken a shotgun blast upside the head.

    Of course, this is based on video in which NOTHING is clear.

  • Another Murder in U.S.A.

    We have a black person in a wheelchair. I repeat: A black person in a wheelchair. Everybody get out your guns and prepare to fire. Ready. Aim. Fire.

  • Cowards

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