One of the most entertaining and enjoyable aspects of being active in the manosphere is reading the experiences of other men and then formulating some codified references of what guys relate. The Urban Dictionary is chock full of these colorful euphemisms. For instance, does anyone know what a “cranston” is?
Cranston
The cranston is the gap where the vaginal mound can be seen dipping into the space between the tops of the inside of a woman’s thighs and the bottoms of the inside of her buttocks.Originally a military term.
I’d say she was about a two finger cranston to be honest.
I love a nice cranston.
The most contentious term of reference almost always revolves around what physical body type men prefer as the feminine ideal. On damn near any major community forum you’ll find a thread attempting to definitively determine what hot piece of ass can be unanimously agreed upon to be the apex of male sexual desire – the mythical HB10. Even the Chateau used to have a dedicated page to just this purpose. As an aside, I’m still a bit confused as to what the HB actually stands for in this inference, ‘hot bitch’? ‘hot babe’? ‘hot butt’? I know Mystery coined this reference, but the “perfect 10” notion predated his by decades.
I really enjoy these threads because it brings such diverse experience and perspective to the table. In particular I love the individual posts where guys will attempt to define what an HB 1 through 10 is to them by posting pictures of examples of each strata of woman. I must credit these threads for disabusing me of the one-size-fits-all mentality I’d been conditioned to believe men had with regards to what they found arousing in a woman. This was one of the last residual mental schemas of feminization I needed to purge from my head in my own unplugging – despite women’s protestations that all men have “impossibly high, media fueled, bikini model physical standards for women” I’ve come to understand that this is simply a canard that despondent fat / post-Wall women comfort themselves with.
While in a general sense it is true that men largely have a predisposition for physical traits that imply youth, fitness and fertility, within those parameter is a myriad of physical variety and permutations of body type, age and ethnicity. Even guys with a ‘thing’ for MILFs are still looking for physical features that fit into this parameter.
Attraction vs. Arousal
Attraction and arousal are really two different things for men. We may be attracted to a woman’s personality, her femininity, her playfulness, her spirit, etc., but we are aroused by her body and sexual availability. There are many women I’m attracted to, but I have a very distinct physical standard for women I find arousing. I think this was one of the difficulties I had in assuming all men had a similar archetype for physical perfection in their cues for arousal. I came to realize I have exceptionally stringent physical standards for the women I find arousing, but that didn’t my standards were every guy’s standards as feminization would have me shamed to believe.
Myself not withstanding though, there is so much room for variety in men’s arousal cues I think it’s a shame that fem-centrism has convinced women that men are universally corrupted to seek only a very narrowly defined set of physical prompts for sexual desire. For instance, I happen to think that women with big assess are too fat for my particular arousal, but I cannot ignore the fact that a significant proportion of men like nothing better than a nice ‘ghetto booty’. I don’t understand it in the same way I don’t understand foot fetishes, but I can’t deny the fact that there are men who get off on feet.
So take heart ladies, unless you are grossly malformed, or morbidly obese you’ll probably find a subset of men who ‘have a thing’ for fucking exactly your body type. You may think men’s evaluating you so clinically is offensive, but we are far more forgiving in our arousal cues that women will ever be in their own physical standards.
HB’s & SE’s
Since so much has been made of HB scales and ratings I don’t think it’s too unfair to present my own observation here.
On the Tomassi scale, there is no such thing as a an HB10 that you haven’t slept with. The last point to half point is ALWAYS earned on performance. I’m sure you wouldn’t buy a Maseratti if it had a VW engine under the hood. Subjectively I believe there are HB10s it’s just that the last point is earned on performance not attractiveness. An otherwise HB10 who turns out to be a ‘lick it around the edges’ girl instantly falls back to an HB7 or so,..That said, I feel the scale also has to be adjusted for geographic region. An HB 8 in Butte, Montana is an HB 5 in Los Angeles. You have to adjust the scale for regional concentration. Hot women tend not to congregate in remote places, they go where they know their looks will serve them best. This then increases the benchmark for that place since the field of competition is deeper. Based on personal experience, an HB 9.5 in South Beach, Miami etc. is well beyond anything NYC, Houston or Chicago could offer up on a consistent basis. The rating curve is more pronounced. Conversley a Miami HB 7, becomes an HB 9.5 in Boise, Idaho. However, after having lived in Hollywood, Las Vegas and Orlando, and traveling somewhat extensively, I think my standards are exceptionally high in this respect.
Lastly, I don’t think that the HB scale is entirely helpful for men’s assessment purposes since it only accounts for physical appeal. There needs to be a second rating attached to the HB (physical) standard, one that accounts for self-esteem SE.
If you rate looks (HB) on a 1-10 and self-esteem (SE) on a 1-10 scale, realistically you’ll want different ratios at different times. If you’re sport-fucking and have no desire for a LTR this ratio might be around HB9 to SE3, no lower than this though since a 3 (the way I’d rate it anyway) would indicate the threshhold for self-destructive personality disorders. If you’re looking for a companion for the long haul of monogamy, then you’ll adjust your ratio accordingly. An HB8+ to an SE 5-7 might be ideal. It’s when you perceive imbalances in the ratio that is cause for concern. For instance an HB7 with an SE of 8 (too self-important for her looks). Or extremes like HB2 to an SE of 9 (most rad-feminists, easily avoidable) and an HB9+ to an SE of 1 or 2 (the suicidal death spiral girl).
It’s all in the balance my sons.
March 29th, 2012 at 1:56 pm
i think this is the first time i dislike something you’ve written rollo.
i refer to the hb7 girl with se8 who is “too self-important for her looks”.
wtf is that about? why can you only have as much self-esteem as your looks “allow you to”? to be honest, this sounds like it’s from the features list of the Matrix software manual.
March 29th, 2012 at 2:23 pm
spot on with the ratios rollo
self important biatches need not apply!
March 29th, 2012 at 2:43 pm
Awesome.I will internalize this.Lets make it a trend.
A question:
Is it just me that needs to be able to “talk” to a chick to fuck her.I mean i get a boner ever so often.But the intense desire to fuck….very rarely.
Off Topic:
As I type this I get a call from my former ONEitis.She checked out my ass this evening and called to “inquire” about the change.LOOKS COUNT.
Now I have to seduce her for the rush of power.And I came to know of game about mid Feb.so its been 6 weeks.I feel high on power.Kudos to you and the Chateau.I got IOI’s from 2 girls from the office.All from just Inner game.No approach , no routine .
March 29th, 2012 at 4:01 pm
I use a binary scale.
0 = No
1 = Yes
Anything else makes me too needy.
March 29th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
“On the Tomassi scale, there is no such thing as a an HB10 that you haven’t slept with.”
Strange, I would contend that there is no such thing as a an HB10 that you have slept with. Particularly the morning after. Dusk is always worth HB+1 to a woman. HB+2 or 3 if you are drunk.
March 29th, 2012 at 4:24 pm
I use the same system, except:
No = 6
Yes = 10
It’s funny calling whales 6’s and framing the girl you want a 10.
March 29th, 2012 at 4:35 pm
I’m also extremely picky in who I find attractive, however I seem to have reverse approach anxiety. If a girl is exactly my type, I’m near impelled to approach.
But my type is rare – village beauty rare. I’ll still date the occasional 6 if she has a sexual heat and fun personality, but a woman who fires up all cylinders is maybe 1 in 200 in her age group. Maybe 2 girls on a stroll along a crowded beach.
March 29th, 2012 at 5:51 pm
I partially agree with Rhino, that the fantasy unknown element can add to the mystique of an HB10… but I also agree that a dime-piece that sucks in bed loses major stock.
I think that behavior and attitude count for a lot. Pure looks is one thing, pics of models, etc… but in real life, how a chick carries herself is extremely relevant to her appeal.
March 29th, 2012 at 7:41 pm
HB = Hard Body
March 29th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
That can’t be right. How can you have an HB1 then? Any hard bodied ugly chick is better than a fat and flabby penguin-waddling tub of ugly.
March 29th, 2012 at 11:39 pm
HB is:
– Hot Babe, if I’m successful at picking her up and she’s attractive
– Heartless Bitch, if I’m failing and she’s attractive
– Hard Body, if she’s the tranny my mate unwittingly picks up (seriously, women should be soft, not hard!)
– Ham Beast, if she is a 5 or below
March 30th, 2012 at 10:13 am
I always thought HB stood for Hot Betty, but Hot Body works for me. I’m a big believer in that a HB value rises or gets lowered according to the audience that she’s entered into. As an example I live in Seattle a HB 10 here would be a HB 2 with an SE of 1000. In other words women here are beasts. I’ll take a HB 5 from Miami any day!
March 30th, 2012 at 12:45 pm
Yep. I’m all about the boner test—if she gives me one, she’s a yes. If she’s doesn’t, she’s a no.
It’s my opinion also that the binary scale makes men more impervious to feminist shaming. If you follow your boner unashamedly then it doesn’t matter what women say about beauty standards—or anything else, for that matter.
March 30th, 2012 at 8:45 pm
Huh? I can’t imagine being with an average woman who thinks she is da bomb. That would be insufferable.
The point I think about the SE being just a tad bit lower than the HB is that she is going to put a little more effort into working for your interest and devotion as opposed to simply feeling entitled to it because of how “gorgeous and marvelous” she is.
April 1st, 2012 at 2:05 am
There is no point to have looks-SE higher than your looks. It shows you have no realistic understanding of your looks. But it’s fine to have SE of 9, while being a 6 in looks, if you have a great personality and a lot of useful skills, and you’re just objectively better than most people.
April 2nd, 2012 at 11:41 pm
If a woman seems to be “into” whatever your passion in life is (ex. motorcycles, bicycling, hiking – whatever)..
She can gain – provisionally – 2 or 3 points on the HB scale.
However, be aware that the HB in question can be (and usually *is*) just pretending to be as passionate as you about your interests — just to get attention (AKA validation) from you and similar guys.
So, for example, an HB-4 that is “really interested” in learning to ride a motorcycle can be perceived as a HB-6 (or maybe 7) by a male biker. Problem is.. all your other biker buds will see her the same way. So what you get is a not-so-hot babe that there will be immense competition for.
Took me a while to learn this..
April 3rd, 2012 at 4:47 pm
If SE only refers to looks I can accept what you guys say, but I don’t think the general SE has to be a function of your looks.
April 7th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
“True” HB 9-10 has to be blond or redhaired for me.
Intelligent/able to be rational atleast temporarily:+1-2 points
Atleast one hobby that’s not totally nonsense for me:+1
Had cosmetic surgery: Fucked in the head, no LTR
More than one piercing and/or tattoo: Fucked in the head, no LTR
Ever worked as a stripper/callgirl: Fucked in the head, no LTR
Ever had an abortion: Fucked in the head, no LTR
April 8th, 2012 at 1:04 pm
I’ve found it interesting when I would mentally think that I was only turned on by slender girls, but then walking around in public would see girls that “on paper I wouldn’t think I would be turned on by” who were not slender (not obese either) and in the proximity of these girls I was turned on by them (so there is more of a range of prospects). Or, 8 out of 10 men say they prefer one hair color, however I prefer other hair colors (I think this is genetically based and that’s just how it is). Most men seem to prefer large breasts (and I don’t like them too large), and I’m an ass-man who is very turned on by the butts of women (anywhere from smaller butts to larger butts, but again not obese), and I often don’t understand why many men prefer breasts over butts (in public those men’s eyes go from face to breasts, whereas instantaneously in 2 seconds my eyes go from her face to her butt then back to eye contact before deciding to meet her). I was aware of a new fetish forming in my mind when a few months ago I saw a woman wearing these uniquely stylish stockings in public as an employee in a luxury department store (and some men and many women would consider her a tramp for wearing them not in a bedroom even though they were fancy) and I said Oh My God those look incredible, thus I have a new fetish. A 9 in looks can go to a 7 if she is boring/stuck-up/rude/un-interested. A 7 in looks can go up to a 9 if she is feminine, easy-going, enthusiastically interested sexually, and playfully fun to be with. The same way a woman can be attracted to you if you are projecting a masculine strength (testosterone) and sexuality vibe, is the same way men can be attracted to women who are feeling a horny/sexual energy vibe, so that’s why I think in public proximity (as I said to begin with) I can see girls who are not slender (although not obese) and still be turned on by them because she has this glowing horny sexual vibe (maybe estrogen/ovulating) that is arousing.
May 26th, 2012 at 11:23 pm
[…] Rage”Rollo Tomassi – “Pseudo-Virginity“, “Dread Games“, “HB10”Samplexus – “The Workplace Advantage”Dulst – “Giving Up Drugs […]
July 10th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
Vae Victus is right. HB does stand [did stand] for Hard Body. It was coined in the early days of the alt.seduction.fast newsgroup.
The ‘HB’ prefix was reserved for women with a body that was derived from a regular gym habit. So you could have a ’10’ and a ‘HB10′, they’d both look unbelievably hot and sexy, it’s just that the vanilla ’10’ wouldn’t have a lot of visible muscle definition.
So to answer your question, a true HB1 would probably be a pretty rare beast, a woman with a hot athletic body but an extremely ugly face.
Your fat & flabby penguin waddling tub of ugly would simply be referred to as a ‘1’
I think the early game community drifted away from using the un-prefixed 1 to 10 scale because most PUA’s would embellish or exaggerate the beauty of the ‘marks’ in their field reports. Scoring with a HB8.5 on a sarge ‘sounds’ better to your peers than the reality of a solid 7 who watches what she eats,
I need to point out that I don’t follow this highly graduated [HB]1 to 10 scale. Like others have said, I have women I find hot, women I could temporarily find hot with some chemical assistance and women I don’t find hot.
August 13th, 2015 at 2:55 pm
I googled “HB10” and your post is one of the first occurrences. I knew of your blog already, but it’s the first time I actually read it.
I agree that there is no such thing as an universal HB scale that everyone would accept. There are criteria we all agree with: as you said, youth and fertility are some of them.
Fitness is debatable as in centuries past the female ideal was more chubby (as can be seen in paintings). Back then, it was an indicator of better access to food, better upbringing and thus better fertility. And many dudes still like big butts nowadays, you just can’t deny.
So I think fertility is a more universal criteria, fitness is more cultural.
I noted that the part where the most differences appear is in the critical area of 9 to 10. That’s where differences in taste among men take over. Because below that point, I think most dudes agree what a 4, a 6 or an 8 looks like.
There will be differences of course based on context, you say having lived in Florida and LA has made your scale higher than some. But it’s not a real difference between men imho. It’s based on context and it’s just a question of calibration.
By the way, wait till you’ve been in eastern Europe. Then you’ll truly understand the notion of “exceptionally high standards of women”.
Anyway, I see many guys referring to hot chicks as perfect tens. You talk about performance over 9 which in your mind is the difference.
My scale is different again. To me, the HB scale is only about physical attractiveness, not performance or attitude. That would be another, separate scale.
In my mind, a 10 means perfection which in my book doesn’t exist in the world.
Thus, no girl can claim being a perfect 10 (some chicks do approach that number though).
A 9 for me is an all time hot girl, with no visible defect or non-beautiful feature, and usually one or several striking features.
Over 9 would be a girl that I fall in love with every time I see her, by the sheer power of her beauty. That happens to me sometimes, dunno if I’m strange or if anyone else has experienced that as well.
The 9 to 10 range is also the one I’m most specific about. I can rate a girl a “9.23” but below 9, you’ll only see me scaling chicks by half points.
And below 5, I probably don’t even look at them long enough to come up with a number.
Anyway, I see a lot of merit in your SE scale. I’m used to referring to that as “a 7 who acts like a 10” for example, but a Self Esteem scale altogether is a good idea.
But then, I’m sure you know as well as me that girls actually have 2 types of self esteem. The bitch shield she puts on when she goes out (that’s your SE scale), and her “real” deep down self esteem which is usually pretty low, and makes her seek validation and attention all over the place.
Now if I’m thinking about an SE scale, I’d say the best number is the equilibrium, at 5. Any girl that varies too much from 5 is not a girl I’m after.
I don’t believe the SE scale should mirror the HB scale. A 9 with a SE of 9 is a girl who has received too much undeserved attention from men for too long. That’s not healthy.
Anyway, good post. Pretty interesting. After a long time of frequenting chicks, I realize that this HB scale is so important in my life / my search for a life partner. Men are so drawn to women’s physical beauty to the point of weakness…
January 7th, 2016 at 12:34 am
Rollo would your wife’s be an 11?