9
10

2016 Double Elimination Reddit Godzilla Tournament - Match 15: 'Godzilla vs. Gigan' vs. 'Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla’ - Losers' Bracket Round 1 (self.GODZILLA)

jorzillaGABARA が 投稿 - stickied post

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (25子コメント)

While I have a feel Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla will win this round given this subreddit's demographics, I'm going to support Godzilla vs. Gigan. While it is full of stock footage, the story is quite engaging and the action is very good.

[–]Nopeyesok 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gigan is one of my favorite villains. I hated Space Godzilla. So that's one more vote for Gigan

[–]Empty_HANGUIRUS 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

What do you believe is this subreddit's demographic?

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (22子コメント)

15-22 year old Heisei fanboys.

[–]mrfluffleupagus 1ポイント2ポイント  (21子コメント)

While I'm 22 and thoroughly enough the Heisei series (although I enjoy almost every Godzilla film) I'm not sure how those two things line up?

The last Heisei film came out when I was 2 years old. Wouldn't someone my age be more partial towards the Millennium era or possibly even the 1998 American film? Considering those would actually be coming out during our childhood. Let alone a current 15 year old who wouldn't have even been born for several more years.

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (20子コメント)

While I'm 22 and thoroughly enough the Heisei series

Thank you for demonstrating my point.

[–]mrfluffleupagus 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Your point? You've made nothing other than a claim that everyone who finds any enjoyment in a Heisei era film is a "15-22 year old fanboy".

In a few months when my birthday rolls around and I'm no longer in this age bracket I suppose I'll be disproving "your point" then? Or I could go ahead and do so by pointing you in the direction of people much older than myself that do as well.

Either way, all I did was ask a simple question. There was no need to be a dick about it and reply with such a childish cliché rather than an actual answer.

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

When was the last time you actually sat down and critically watched a Heisei film? I would bet it has been awhile. A lot of time what people perceive as quality films don't actually pass a lot of scrutiny. They are remembering the experience of watching the film, the warm feelings it brings, and not the actual movie itself.

The Heisei series is made of poorly made, bland remakes, filled with too many characters, weak stories, and action consisting almost entirely of two opposing monsters shooting multi-colored light effects at each other for 10 minutes. This is after the movie's follows the major beats established in Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah.

The first three movies are pretty great to good, but one third of those movies weren't made by the people who turned the franchise into a vanilla cookie-cuter affair.

So what does the Heisei series have for it that appeals to a younger crowd (especially compared to the stronger Golden Age films?):

  • Modern movie pacing.

  • A lot of effect shots, even if they are poor.

  • Transforming monsters.

  • Simple stories that don't take a lot to actually follow.

  • Big, bulky, powerful looking monsters.

  • A lot of explosions.

This is not the mention that the Heisei series was the one most hyped up by Tri-Star/Sony for the 1998 films, since Sony got all of the rights to all of the movies from Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah to Godzilla Final Wars.

Still don't believe me? I want you to compare movies that are remakes or functional remakes:

  • Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah vs. Godzilla vs. Monsters Zero- The Showa film is a classic, the Heisei film has a LOT of issues which only redeeming factor is Mecha King Ghidorah and a bad-ass Godzilla.

  • Godzilla vs. Mothra 91 vs. Mothra vs. Godzilla 1964- The 1992 film is easily one of the worst films of the entire franchise.

  • Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla 93 vs. Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla/Terror of Mechagodzilla - Not only is the 1993 film a poor remake and re-imagining, it was vastly overshadowed by the Kiryu movies in the 2000s.

  • Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla vs. Ghidorah the Three Headed Monster - We are currently debating if Space Godzilla is one of the worst films in the entire franchise. Enough said.

That leaves Godzilla vs. Biollante and Godzilla vs. Destoroyah as the remaining films. Biollante actually is really good. Destoroyah would be completely forgettable if it wasn't the film that "killed" Godzilla.

For the record, this observation is backed up in both my personal development of watching these films, as well as ongoing discussion with similar groups of users I've interacted with over the last 10-15 years.

EDIT for the record, no where did I say that everyone who enjoys the 90s films has to be 15-22 years old, I'm actually claiming that demographics that those films cater more towards happen to be younger. Reddit is made of younger people, hence why these polls have a bias towards more modern films, particularly the 2014 movie. If you want to see what an older crowd tends to like, Monter Zero on Sci-Fi Japan has a similar tournament that has more of the older films making it further in the rounds.

[–]I_think_youll_findMECHAGODZILLA II 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally I'm a big fan of Godzilla vs Mechagodzilla 2, I thought it was the second strongest in the heisei era and stronger than many of the showa era films.

Also whilst SpaceGodzilla is pretty terrible, remember that Gigan as a film is a mess of stock footage and weird bits where Godzilla speaks

[–]JNC96TITANOSAURUS 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The salt is too real in you.

[–]cowyeahBIOLLANTE 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm a 32 year old fan of the Heisei series does that undemonstrate your point? You're making a sweeping generalization about what people like and, whether you mean to or not, saying young people are dumb and what they like is dumb. Both series have good movies and bad movies. We're all here to watch giant monsters fight other giant monsters, let's enjoy it together.

EDIT: Which is not to say we cannot be critical of the films we love but saying Group A likes Films B and that Films B are inferior to Films C sounds like you are saying Group A is a bunch of Turdburglers.

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm a 32 year old fan of the Heisei series does that undemonstrate your point?

No it doesn't. You can find exceptions among any group.

You're making a sweeping generalization about what people like

Yes, that is a point of a generalization.

whether you mean to or not, saying young people are dumb and what they like is dumb.

I am not saying young people are dumb. Young people certainly have less life experience, but that is not a factor in intelligence. That being said, if you ask yourself this question: what were you doing 10 years ago? You will probably think to yourself about how you were just out of college, at your first job, proposing to your girlfriend, legally getting drunk with your friends, etc. However, if you ask someone in that demographic what they were doing 10 years ago, they were 5-12 years old. Kindergarten to Middle school. I'm sorry, 5-12 year old kids do not have refined tastes in film.

Both series have good movies and bad movies.

While this is true, there have been multiple polls on this subreddit for the last 4 years that I've been posting here, and the Heisei series is ALWAYS picked as the group favorite movie. This is despite the fact that while there are exceptions (which I specifically called out in my comment above), these films are of much lower quality than say, the Golden Age films of the 1960s.

We're all here to watch giant monsters fight other giant monsters, let's enjoy it together.

This comment always comes up in these type of comment chains. I'm not really interested in just going along with the majority opinion, and I don't mind being downvoted either. There is room for debate in this space, and I rarely ever hear good reasons for why the 1990s films are actually good, instead they usually boil down to how 'cool' they are or because of a particular monster. If that's the argument, then I'd like to redirect anyone back to my comment above.

[–]cowyeahBIOLLANTE 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please do not mistake enjoying things together with going along with majority opinion.

I rarely ever hear good reasons for why the 1990s films are actually good

For some people the very things you describe as why the 90's films are bad are the only reason they like the films. I love seeing giant monsters battle each other with big splashy explosions and as an artist/puppeteer I think the puppets and the miniatures of some of those Heisei era films are amazing. I also think that the original uncut Gojira is one of the most important films about the atomic bomb ever made.

You can discuss the merits of something without implying a generation of Godzilla fans don't actually like what what they like, or that as they get older they'll realize they were shallow in their choice of Kaiju Film. I get that as someone with different tastes to the majority of a group you feel the need to defend what you like. But that is what i mean about enjoying things together. I don't mean we shouldn't critique the movies, I'm saying we don't need to critique each other.

[–]I_think_youll_findMECHAGODZILLA II 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

So your argument is that because 15-22 year olds watched Heisei films as children, they favour them due to a lesser knowledge of what makes a good film? Therefore when an older demographic who watched showa era films when they were kids choose showa films are they not looking through the same rose tinted glasses as the above mentioned 15-22 year olds?

Now because I'm a dick at film school I'd like to point out that in many many respects the newer films are better visually and narratively than the showa films with a few exceptions. The actual quality of some of these films, Gigan in particular is pretty low, not to the say they shouldn't be enjoyed of course as thats completely subjective

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Now because I'm a dick at film school I'd like to point out that in many many respects the newer films are better visually and narratively than the showa films with a few exceptions.

This is simply not true. You pick 90% of the film by Ishrio Honda with effects by Tsuburaya and they will beat out all but one or two Heisei films.

Furthermore, get yourself a copy of the 90s Gamera trilogy, realize those films were made with half the budget of the 90s Godzilla films, and compare their quality. I guarantee they will highlight how lazy, bland, and by the numbers the 90s Godzilla films are.

[–]Bugger217 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is simply not true.

I think this is the problem. You act as if there is an objective quality (or lack of quality) to each film, and it makes some people see you as arrogant and condescending. For the most part, there's no truth or lack of truth to film. It's so completely subjective.

Movies impact different people in different ways. We all have types of movies we enjoy. We all have our own ideas of what makes some movies "good," and other movies "bad," but almost none of it can actually be proven.

Certain screenplays may engage one person, and bore another person to death. Some action sequences may excite one person, while making another person yawn. Neither of these people are ever wrong. It's all about feelings and preference.

Opinions are fun.

[–]I_think_youll_findMECHAGODZILLA II 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The effects are out of the question, they are better in the newer films, quite simply about 9 of the 15 showa films are of pretty poor quality, sure they're campy fun but narratively they're all very derivative of each other which shows up significantly once you get to the tail end of the showa era, the effects whilst not terrible, show their age, and a lot of the time there is shameless abuse of stock footage. The monsters often look incredibly obvious that they're people in costumes, cinematography wise apart from the original almost all of the showa films struggle to emphasise the size pf the monsters and the general look is much more about being bright and colourful than showing any sort of emotional power. As films the first series with exception of about 6 just aren't of a high quality, they are however still fun movies in the same way that the Adam West batman is great but isn't close to the Tim Burton films in terms of narrative of cinematic style

[–]Empty_HANGUIRUS 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So you make up stats about a group and then claim anything that doesn't meet your ill informed criteria is simply an exception. This is the definition of closed minded.

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What stats am I making up? I'm talking about a generality, and one or two people saying, "well I don't fit that criteria" doesn't change what I said.

I did not say that ONLY 15-22 year olds like Heisei movies most of all. If I was saying that, only one example would refute what I am saying.

[–]Empty_HANGUIRUS 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If Space Godzilla were actually winning you might would have a point. As is, you sound like an angry man yelling at clouds.

[–]jorzillaGABARA[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Space Godzilla is a terrible film, but watch how the polling turns out because a film like Destoroyah is going to end up beating a movie like Monster Zero or Destroy All Monsters because of 'feels.' This is a comment directed at the upper bounds of how Heisei films are generally rated. I'm actually happy that Space Godzilla is losing, I qualified my first comment because there was a strong chance Space Godzilla would win because he is a loved character due to Godzilla: Save the Earth and Unleashed. What I didn't really factor in was Gigan being a stronger, fan favorite monster.