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[–]Sporkicide[A] 111ポイント112ポイント  (347子コメント)

No, not good job everyone.

The subreddit was banned because it was unmoderated and filling with spam. EDIT FOR CLARIFICATION: Users in the subreddit who had violated the content policy were banned, which contributed to the subreddit being unmoderated. The subreddit itself had been left in place pending possible new moderators since a lot of users had expressed interest in reusing it, likely with a very different spin on the topic. Before that could happen, a lot of people decided to take advantage of the lack of moderation, so it was banned completely.

There are a number of threads in this subreddit that are outright asking users to brigade subreddits as a way of dictating acceptable content. While it's perfectly fine to take issue with content elsewhere on the site, forming a mob to enforce your views is not the way to go about it, and it needs to stop now.

[–]Ienpw_IIIResist 166ポイント167ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah trust me if /r/socialism got filled with rape tips I'd be 100% okay with you banning it.

This is not that difficult.

[–]heaveninherarmsLuxemburg 85ポイント86ポイント  (0子コメント)

Teaching people how to rape and how to get away with rape is within the Reddit policy, unpaid advertisers are not. Is that what you're saying?

[–]CreepingMan_My country is Earth, and I am a citizen of the world 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

The sub has been around since October of 2014. I'm not sure if the sub had the same intentions back then as it did right before it was banned, but odds are that they were.

The sub should have been banned long ago. Content Policy states,

Content is prohibited if it

  • Is illegal
  • Is involuntary pornography
  • Encourages or incites violence
  • Threatens, harasses, or bullies or encourages others to do so
  • Is personal and confidential information
  • Impersonates someone in a misleading or deceptive manner
  • Is spam

[–]Dongly_mc_dongerson 58ポイント59ポイント  (2子コメント)

Lol. Rape chat is ok, but VIOLATING THE HOLY LAWS OF REDDIT is punishable.

You are a human urinal

[–]zanta78Super-Uber Left Communist 161ポイント162ポイント  (6子コメント)

The subreddit was banned because it was unmoderated and filling with spam.

Wow, this is the only reason it was banned? Not because of the pro-rape talk or anything, can't ban their "free speech." What a fucking joke.

[–]specterofsandersismAnarchy 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to reddit, "spam"- speech without meaning- is literally worse than malicious speech intended to teach people how to rape better

Also, why are none of these freeze peachers bringing up the fact that censoring spam is also an infringement on free speech?

[–]RustInHellThatcher 83ポイント84ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reddit loves rape and rapists. Never expect reddit administration to not side with them when there's no media attention.

[–]Chicomoztoc¡La historia nos absolverá! -MarxistLeninist- 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought we were all sleeping with the admins so they would do our bidding... all that sex and then they say this things. Not cool.

[–]roerd 72ポイント73ポイント  (4子コメント)

Fuck you, that sub was discussing and giving advice for not only utterly despicable, but also illegal behaviour. If you banned it not for that, but for merely technical reasons, it's you, not this sub, that needs to change.

[–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It doesn't matter what reason it was banned for. If it was banned on a technicality then that's fine, there's still one less rapist forum on reddit.

[–]xveganroxKKE 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

It kind of does matter, though, because people who post in those type of subs will see Reddit's response that their content was A-okay, they just needed better moderation.

[–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's true, you're right.

[–]shroom_throwaway9722Post-Post Obamaism-Maoism-Sanders Thought (Anarcho-Hoxhaist) 48ポイント49ポイント  (1子コメント)

The subreddit was banned because it was unmoderated and filling with spam.

Wait, what happened to the Reddit Rules about bigotry and such? You are being real disingenuous here.

forming a mob to enforce your views is not the way to go about it, and it needs to stop now.

"What the fuck is direct action?" - You

[–]Citrakayah 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are Reddit Rules against bigotry?

Ha!

[–]ConnorGillisMarxist-Leninist-Maoist 67ポイント68ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow, you are human garbage. It is okay to allow a pro-rape subreddit to exist but as soon as people attempt to stop it that is when it is bad?

Step back and think about how what you are saying is not okay. If the reddit admins are willing to let a rape subreddit exist it certainly proves our point that the people of reddit need to take action into their own hands.

Fuck you. You reactionary rape apologist piece of shit.

[–]illuminated_sputnikInb4 "how is this related to socialism?" 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you! These fucking admins have no sense of reason in them other than the cold iron will to enforce Reddit's policies. They don't care how despicable the content is, just as long as it gives them website traffic.

[–]rulbamFlair of the Week: Cop killers are good people[S] 93ポイント94ポイント  (79子コメント)

Okay, fine. I see what I did and what others did as a form of protest in a sub that had no business having its organic discussion (as it blatantly broke site rules), but I still see your point.

e: What was I thinking? Am I this liberal every morning?

Actually, I don't see your point anymore. How do you think it's beneficial to harbor abusive, misogynist scum who break the very rules you wrote? Then, how do you dare come here and then condemn us for enforcing your own rules for you? We made sure what had been your responsibility to enact happen.

Who or what are you keeping in mind when you write this? Your shareholders? Profits? If so, this policy is the least effective I know. After all, which decent person wants to associate with rapists? And what makes you think your site will go empty without your Frozen Peaches rhetoric? It's actually the opposite. You'd make way more money if you treated bigots harshly because of the lurkers who'd feel comfortable for once and the new people who hear about what you're doing.

Think twice about what you do. I did before I made my decisions the past couple of days.

[–]Sporkicide[A] -101ポイント-100ポイント  (78子コメント)

Thanks for understanding. I get where you're coming from, this just wasn't the right way to go about it.

We're here to enforce the content policy. Violations get reported to us and we deal with them. Getting out the torches and pitchforks on your own isn't the way to handle it. What if another subreddit's users objected to your beliefs and felt they should be suppressed by using these same tactics against /r/socialism?

[–]Artip2 189ポイント190ポイント  (5子コメント)

We're here to enforce the content policy. Violations get reported to us and we deal with them

Except you just said that the sub was banned because "it was unmoderated and filling with spam", not because of content policy violations. Which introduces the uncomfortable implication that Reddit-as-a-business is perfectly ok with what was going on there.

What if another subreddit's users objected to your beliefs and felt they should be suppressed by using these same tactics against /r/socialism?

Apparently we'd be fine as long as we kept our spam cleaned up, lol

[–]GlucksbergSabo Cat 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What if another subreddit's users objected to your beliefs and felt they should be suppressed by using these same tactics against /r/socialism?

Apparently we'd be fine as long as we kept our spam cleaned up, lol

OH SHIT

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Artip2 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Oh, I guess that completely invalidates everything else I said.

    [–]RedAustraliaML☭|/r/CommunismWorldwide 108ポイント109ポイント  (3子コメント)

    We're here to enforce the content policy. Violations get reported to us and we deal with them

    The problem is you don't deal with them. Reddit has a notoriously shitty reputation in removing vile content i.e Jailbait subs, Neo-Nazi subs, White supremacist subs.

    It took mass media shaming to spur Reddit to remove what was essentially a child pornography distribution platform.

    It is completely obscene trying to couch Reddit's profiteering from content aimed at Nazis, Pedophiles and Rape Advocates as some stand for FreeSpeech™.

    What if another subreddit's users objected to your beliefs and felt they should be suppressed by using these same tactics against /r/socialism?

    If it meant you shutout the previous scum I mentioned I imagine most people here would be fine with it.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]RedAustraliaML☭|/r/CommunismWorldwide 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      k

      [–]usr12+ 128ポイント129ポイント  (25子コメント)

      Did you just equate discussing socialism with sharing rape tips?

      Jesus Christ on a bike.

      [–]rainmaninjapan 36ポイント37ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah but ain't them damn dirty socialists just them corrupt powermongers who want to make everyone equally miserable though? They're societal rapists I tells ya.

      [–]mrpanicy 9ポイント10ポイント  (21子コメント)

      To be fair, he didn't. All he said was "What if another subreddit's users objected to your beliefs and felt they should be suppressed...".

      [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]mrpanicy 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

        No. But that is one way to take it. He is pointing out that without the rules that they enforce anyone could do this. If they allow one subreddit to get away with it, for any reason (even a good one like taking down a pro-rape community), then others would start taking down any opinion that they don't agree with.

        I don't think that would happen... but it's a door that they want left closed. They support rules that exist for good reason.

        HOWEVER, they should have stepped in so that individual subreddits did not have to take drastic action. And that is on them.

        [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]mrpanicy 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

          That is a logical fallacy. Because I think rules exist for a reason, and that enforcing said rules is just, I must support the rape subreddit? I recognize the reasoning as to why those rules exist. To protect all subreddits from being attacked by others with differing views.

          I don't support subreddits that engage in horrid fantasies and discussions. But I do support the broader rule set that protects them.

          HOWEVER, it is on the admin of the site to act when action is required.

          Their inaction led to some subreddits breaking some rules to enforce others. That doesn't mean the rules are bad, that means that the people who should have acted failed to.

          My discussion point was about the rules, NOT about protecting any particular subreddit.

          [–]prolific13Citizens of the world 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Why is that relevant to what occurred in r/hookertalk? Either he's equating discussing socialism to discussion about rape stories or what he's saying is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

          [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 11ポイント12ポイント  (12子コメント)

          If we, say, had a sub about the most effective way to murder capitalists and landlords, I'd say that yeah that should probably be banned.

          Until they start going after /sandersforpresident and /conservative I'm not worried about that.

          [–]Achierius 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Some people would say so. Ever heard of McCarthy? Would you like to be banned?

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]unapologeticallymaoiIts right to rebel! 77ポイント78ポイント  (18子コメント)

            Theres a difference between a subreddit used to discuss how to rape someone in the most fucked up way possible and a sub used to disscuss socialist politics.

            [–]mrpanicy -4ポイント-3ポイント  (10子コメント)

            He did not compare this subreddit to a subreddit based on rape discussion. He simply asserted that if they allow one subreddit to engage in this action, then there is nothing to stop another from doing it to you.

            I think that what was done is the correct thing, since the admins seemed to not want to take action. But I understand the slippery slope that allowing a subreddit to take this type of action puts them on.

            [–]unapologeticallymaoiIts right to rebel! 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

            Id much rather dwindle down slippery slope of torching peoples subbredddits every single day than sit still and watch wile others discuss how they should rape sex workers, kill jewish people, POC, muslims etc. Reddit has shown that their admins have no actual interest in taking down oppressive subreddits, so i dont trust them to do their jobs correctly.

            コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

              [–]YourNitmarMarxist-AprilMarianist 50ポイント51ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Violations get reported to us and we deal with them

              By ignoring the reports and then eventually banning the subreddit for a completely different reason, namely that it is filled with spam?

              If our beliefs included the advocating of rape and sexual abuse, I would support those using the same tactics against us.

              [–]AberrantNumber3 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Enforcing the content policy? Complete bullshit. Have you looked at the thing?

              [–]darwin42 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Why does planning rape count as free speech to you guys?

              Anyways, Is there any actual recourse we can have? Or do we just have to let it be? Is there no way that you guys are okay with to try and get horrible and illegal communities removed from this website?

              [–]SiflynDemocratic Socialism 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

              We're here to enforce the content policy. Violations get reported to us and we deal with them.

              And yet you're completely fine with subreddits that support rape and abuse like /r/hookertalk and /r/theredpill.

              Fuck you.

              [–]heaveninherarmsLuxemburg 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Instructing people how to rape is not the same as discussing politics and political disagreements. If you're in charge of managing content, you need to be able to see distinctions as blatantly obvious as that.

              [–]mcacSpace Communism 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Violations get reported to us and we deal with them.

              Except the subreddit WAS reported, several times, and nothing was done until "spam" was involved. Fuck off.

              [–]EvilRethuglican 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

              "Discussing how to rape women is as valid as discussing socialism!"

              • Sporkicide, reddit Admin Team 2016

              Doesn't get any better than that!

              [–]Jeep-EepDemocratic Socialism, Technoskeptic Anti-Eugenicist. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              BRD INTENSIFIES.

              [–]Hindu_Wardrobefeminist 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

              Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

              Also you should probably quarantine /r/European, or just come out and admit that all this is less about content and more about advertising money. Which would be totally understandable, and then I would question why advertisers want to associate with a website that has a massive white supremacist population.

              [–]OrkBegorkLibertarian Socialism 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              So what you're saying is, the only way to get you to enforce the content policy is through these kinds of tactics?

              [–]Thomas_SankaraEngels 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              You didnt ban the sub until users spammed it. If you were leaving it up, in order to allow it to be taken over by other users, why didnt you ban the 5th mod, for, ya know, modding a rape tip sub? Then it could have been taken over instantly? Instead you intended to leave it up for 30 days so that rapists could continue to post... why?

              And it is surprising to me an Admin would admit to banning mods instead of the sub in order to allow users with 180 views on the subject to take over.

              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                [–]usr12+ 285ポイント286ポイント  (151子コメント)

                Pro Rape subs for predators to share tips are OK, but the second the users take issue and drown out the abuse tips, that is the issue?

                What a fucking joke. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

                edit: Also many many people messaged the admins about it days ago and nothing happened. What were you expecting people to do, sit around and let predators target vulnerable people?

                [–]NotJustinTrottier 100ポイント101ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Also many many people messaged the admins about it days ago and nothing happened.

                But admins are "here to enforce content policy" so don't worry! When they choose not to shut down subs discussing rape, which is a longstanding pattern for the site, then we are simply to rest assured that the policy is not being violated!

                It's so simple and so reassuring.

                [–]bperki8Angela Davis 42ポイント43ポイント  (0子コメント)

                White supremacist heteropatriarchal imperialism, it's not a bug for reddit, it's a feature.

                [–]bperki8Angela Davis 55ポイント56ポイント  (14子コメント)

                For real. Let them try to ban /r/socialism for working to get pro-rape subs taken off reddit. I'd love to see that.

                [–]PauliExcludedAnarchist who likes Marx 59ポイント60ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Any non-leftist subreddit response: /r/socialism deserved to be banned because they violated the FREEZE PEACH of the poor, oppressed rapists

                [–]StopTalkingOK 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                "try"? If they wanted y'all banned what makes you think they would need to try?

                [–]TheYetiCaptain1993Hammer and Sickle 38ポイント39ポイント  (5子コメント)

                reddit administration is infatuated with free-speech absolutism.

                They really don't care that they are harboring the largest white supremacist community on the internet, or that their website hosts an even larger community of rape apologists. Nope, gotta worry about the internet points and the brigading.

                [–]EvilRethuglican 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                reddit administration is infatuated with free-speech absolutism.

                Unless it's Star Wars spoilers, then language policing is in hyper-overdrive.

                [–]12hatchMalala 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                hyper-overdrive

                Reddit admins made the Kessel Run in less than twelve frozen peaches.

                [–]Wrecksomething 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                reddit administration is infatuated with free-speech absolutism.

                Only when it suits them. After all, a free speech absolutist could just as easily defend subreddit brigades as free speech, but reddit declares those off limits perhaps because it impacts the ability of others to hold discussions in that sub. The same argument could be made to limit the speech of rape tip subreddits, but in that case reddit trumpets its free speech idealism and hopes no one realizes how selectively they stick to those guns.

                Everyone notices. reddit isn't free speech absolutist except for hate speech.

                [–]thehighground 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It's about rules other sub reddits that do this shit are insta banned while this one isn't cause it pushed an agenda thry would love and which most people know is moronic.

                [–]Lord_Blathoxi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Thank you!!

                [–]Downvotesohoy 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                What rape sub?

                [–]tupendousFarm Implements 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                /r/hookertalk

                [–]Chewiemuse 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                They talked about rape? Like had legit posts like "how to rape a hooker"?

                [–]wlee1987 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                What's one of those pro rape subs?

                [–]Chewiemuse 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                How were they pro rape like did they legit say like this is the best way to rape a hooker?

                [–]usr12+ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                It was literally people sharing tips and discussing their experiences raping and humiliating sex workers.

                [–]mspk7305 -28ポイント-27ポイント  (90子コメント)

                Look at the Reddit rules as a version of the free speech compromise. You can say what you want, no matter how offensive, provided it doesn't prevent others from saying what they want.

                You don't get to decide what breaks the rule unless you're an admin, just like you don't get to form a vigilante mob to catch and punish a criminal.

                This is the compromise you need to live with both in life and on Reddit. Deviation from this is a highway to censorship and oppression.

                *Edit since I have been banned.... * This was in no way an endorsement of exploitation. It is established that your rights end where someone else's begin. You therefore cannot use your rights to exploit someone else. It does not matter if you believe it was someone exercising a right that lead to the oppression or exploitation of someone else, you are wrong because whoever is claiming the use of a right overstepped the limit of that right.

                Freedom is not safe. It is not pretty. It is not nice. Freedom is a cold hard wall that says you can do whatever the fuck you want inside that wall because it insulates you from whatever the fuck someone does on the other side of that wall. You break that wall, you deserve to be met with justice- but not at the hands of those who broke the wall to mete it out.

                [–]roerd 87ポイント88ポイント  (29子コメント)

                I'm totally OK with censoring and oppressing rapists.

                [–]fiveorphansSeize the means of replication 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Where's isreactionarybot when you need it

                [–]roerd -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                If you want to know something about me, you could try just asking me.

                [–]Achierius -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

                There are people who would say the same for Communists. Would you like to be banned?

                [–]ThoctarDaniel DeLeon 10ポイント11ポイント  (14子コメント)

                No, because we're not racists. We don't believe in having a free speech "right" because we believe hate speech deserves to be banned.

                [–]IAMPOUNDCAKE 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

                No, because we're not racists. We don't believe in having a free speech "right" because we believe hate speech deserves to be banned.

                This is immaterial. If their group is larger you get wrecked. There is reason why you keep the means of escalation moderate.

                [–]ThoctarDaniel DeLeon 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

                I don't believe "might makes right" should be our moral guidelines, especially since historically we Socialists usually get screwed anyways, and those rights tend to be violated repeatedly, so even the "pragmatic" argument makes no sense.

                [–]KhabaLox 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                The whole idea behind having rights like free speech for ALL speech, even offensive speech, is to protect minorities from the fascism of the majority.

                [–]EvilRethuglican -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

                And despite that, in practice, the speech of minorities ends up censored while the speech of the "fascist" majority is still dominant. Perhaps that's why this debate really only ever arises when someone calls out the hate speech used by the dominant group, no?

                [–]AimingWineSnailzMaterialist -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                That feels a little too simplistic.

                [–]IAMPOUNDCAKE 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                I don't believe "might makes right"

                Then you are hopelessly lost because that is how the world works, and will until you find a way to divvy authority equally, which isn't viable.

                [–]ThoctarDaniel DeLeon 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I'm not saying that's not how the world works, you're telling us we should have it as our guiding principle while ignoring that, historically and presently, we get fucked anyways. It's not like being nice and friendly stopped us from being spied upon, broken up, beaten, and tortured. You're asking us to defuse for practical reasons disguised as a moral reason while ignoring we won't escape discrimination regardless, so toleration of rapists and fascists can't even be excused on practical grounds.

                [–]AimingWineSnailzMaterialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Being a rapist is a criminal offence, if you prefer to have everything put in liberal logic

                [–]xveganroxKKE 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                They weren't just violating stupid Reddit policies, they were violating the law. Conspiracy to commit crime is a crime.

                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                  コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                    [–]hoobsherMarxist 26ポイント27ポイント  (18子コメント)

                    if your version of freedom allows for and encourages the exploitation of vulnerable people then it's not worth shit

                    [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    first of all, fuck reddit rules.

                    second of all, I imagine that life is going to go on 100% the same as it always has for like everybody in the world now that hookertalk is banned. This was not the death of liberty bud. That's the kind of shit people say when they spend too much time on reddit and take it way too seriously. But let me tell you: to most rational people this is completely ineffectual and won't impact anything in any way. Get some perspective. Oppression is raping a sex worker. Oppression is not telling people to shut up online.

                    [–]RedAustraliaML☭|/r/CommunismWorldwide 45ポイント46ポイント  (26子コメント)

                    Freedom of Speech is bourgeois ideology.

                    [–]hercaptamerica 9ポイント10ポイント  (16子コメント)

                    I've never been to this sub. What do you mean? How does free speech contradict socialist principles?

                    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                    [deleted]

                      [–]hercaptamerica 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      These are helpful, thanks.

                      [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 30ポイント31ポイント  (7子コメント)

                      Not all of us think that free speech is necessarily a bourgeois ideology bad thing. Someone else who believes that would have to explain that viewpoint.

                      Personally tho free speech is not the end-all be-all to liberty and freedom like people act. I think we should be able to live in a world where we can firmly say; 'organizing and discussing how to rape people is unacceptable and won't be tolerated'. Rather than waiting for someone to get raped.

                      Also, people on reddit don't have a lot of perspective and don't seem to understand what 'free speech' actually is. This is, for one, an international forum. US constitution does not apply. And even in America, 'free speech' does not apply to private organizations like reddit. It's the equivalent of going to a concert, enjoying the show, and then a group of neo-nazis walk in and start chanting and disrupting shit. The venue would throw them out, they'd be well within their rights to do so, no one would be 'oppressed', and hopefully everyone would continue to enjoy the show. Kicking a community off of reddit is pretty much a direct equivalent to that.

                      [–]hercaptamerica 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      I 100% agree with what you've said. My real question is how it is a bourgeois ideology. I generally feel as if the people that believe that any and all speech should be allowed, as if all forms of speech are equal, are generally guilty of one of two things:

                      1. Falling for a slippery slope fallacy that results in silencing the population
                      2. They haven't critically though about why they hold that stance.

                      The latter is not always true, but I generally disagree with the reasoning used to support it.

                      [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      My real question is how it is a bourgeois ideology.

                      It's a liberal ideology, I think is the better way to put it. It's part of the 'liberalism' package, much of which socialists disagree with. In the same way you can say that private property is a bourgeois/liberal ideology. That's not a bad thing in and of itself. Freedom to worship who and what you please is also a liberal ideology and socialists don't disagree with that.

                      It's kind of similar to when people say 'X is a social construct'. The point in pointing this out is not to say that all social constructs are bad, but to say that all social constructs are tangible and we have the ability to change them. When it comes to 'bourgeois ideology' or liberalism, it's not that all aspects are always bad, it's that you can identify the historic trends associated with it to get a better picture of what it is, why people believe in it, it's relevance, etc.

                      With all that said, I totally agree with you too.

                      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                      [deleted]

                        [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It's very interesting stuff! :)

                        [–]KhabaLox 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I think we should be able to live in a world where we can firmly say; 'organizing and discussing how to rape people is unacceptable and won't be tolerated'. Rather than waiting for someone to get raped.

                        Does that leave any room for creative art/fiction? Can people discuss how to organize a bank robbery if the are making a film about a heist? Can pornographers discuss how to create a realistic rape fetish scenario?

                        I agree that a line has to be drawn, but we have to be very careful where we draw that line. I tend to think we should be more liberal in drawing the line, as there is a big difference between words and actions.

                        This is, for one, an international forum. US constitution does not apply. And even in America, 'free speech' does not apply to private organizations like reddit.

                        I totally agree that legally, reddit the company can do whatever the hell they want. However, freedom of expression is a universal idea, and I think a person in Egypt should be allowed to criticize their government, for example, no matter what local law says.

                        This idea that we shouldn't discuss the idea of what speech should and shouldn't be banned from reddit (a community driven by the users) doesn't make much sense to me. This is a social platform for sharing ideas/links between users. It's the very essence of the site. We aren't talking about going into GMs headquarters and talking up the merits of Ford cars.

                        [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Does that leave any room for creative art/fiction? Can people discuss how to organize a bank robbery if the are making a film about a heist? Can pornographers discuss how to create a realistic rape fetish scenario?

                        Well certainly. I'm a writer, for the record, and a lot of what I write has extremely dark themes that would be unacceptable in real life. That is an issue of creativity and I don't think the arts apply to this. In a pornographic rape scene, everyone consents and no one is hurt. If that isn't true, and there are consequences beyond the scene, it would be a problem.

                        However, freedom of expression is a universal idea, and I think a person in Egypt should be allowed to criticize their government, for example, no matter what local law says.

                        I agree.

                        This idea that we shouldn't discuss the idea of what speech should and shouldn't be banned from reddit (a community driven by the users) doesn't make much sense to me.

                        I agree with this too, but I'm definitely not saying we shouldn't discuss it. I'm kind of saying the opposite. That we should, if anything, feel obligated to discuss what we allow in this forum. Same goes for the real world and our communities. My point here is that when discussing this, we can come to a conclusion. I think a lot of people believe that it's downright unethical to come to a conclusion and enforce it, hence freeze peaches and what not.

                        [–]AimingWineSnailzMaterialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Thank you.

                        [–]RedAustraliaML☭|/r/CommunismWorldwide 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        "Freedom of Speech" in this instance was being used to convey information on how to rape, humiliate and degrade sex workers; is this particular act of speech not in-and-of itself harmful? Does it exist in a vacuum somehow disconnected from the "real world"?

                        If I agree with the Liberal conception of freedom of speech then I must allow these harmful activities to carry on.

                        [–]hercaptamerica 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I agree with your definition of free speech. That sub is disgusting and harmful, and they deserve much more than a subreddit ban in my opinion, but can you explain how the liberal definition is a bourgeois ideology?

                        I know nothing about bourgeois ideology, and my current assumption is that their form of speech somehow protects the status quo. I may be way off-base.

                        [–]RedAustraliaML☭|/r/CommunismWorldwide 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        "Freedom of Speech" as a concept is completely fallacious, first and foremost the history of Liberal States has shown that they do not care about oppressing the speech of anyone they deem to be unacceptable; secondly "Free Speech" is often used -as in this case- to uphold violently classist speech even though Reddit is not a government and in noway has any obligation to host platforms for rapists, they are just appealing to some vague ideological notion to keep rapists on their site and provide tissue-thin cover for doing so.

                        To bring it back to how it is "bourgeois ideology"; Liberalism is the ideology of the Bourgeois revolution and the capitalist societal epoch; you are correct that it was formed to protect the bourgeoisie as the dominant social class and their class interests or rather it was an expression of their class power and interests. Even so I was being polemical with my comment since the issue is far more complex.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                          コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                            [–]pseudojewboyAmerican Trotskyist[M] 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

                            Whoever gilded this please step up so I can ban you.

                            [–]tupendousFarm Implements 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            can you ban /u/Sporkicide ? that would be hilarious

                            [–]pseudojewboyAmerican Trotskyist[M] 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Oh I was tempted. But I'd rather not poke the bear too hard and get this place b&. I'm supposed to have some semblance of maturity as a mod.

                            [–]lovelybone93Слава Сталинy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Can't admins just override that anyways? Fuck the admins and their muh freeze peaches.

                            [–]S0ny666 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Looks like this sub is being brigaded. When are the admins gonna step in and ban all the brigading subs?!?

                            [–]xveganroxKKE 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            The admin post saying rape tips are okay on Reddit is at +60. Wtf.

                            [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                            [deleted]

                              [–]pseudojewboyAmerican Trotskyist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Your wish is my command.

                              [–]AimingWineSnailzMaterialist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              /r/ShitRedditGilds

                              [–]Anna-KareninaThe real movement 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              This impotent reddity free speech talk is irrational and morally degenerate. Imposing on those who endorse imposing on the autonomy of others (by promoting rape) is perfectly complementary with your own fundamentalist criterium which is the safeguarding of autonomy/freedom. It is even necessary for it. What you are doing here is fetishizing freedom of speech (this often goes to the point of defending (!!!) the rape apologists from criticism and disdain), no doubt out of the conviction that everything must be able to be discussed lest we fall into dogmatism, and you are doing it from the standpoint that freedom/autonomy is an absolute moral good (a dogma, though I agree with it), which already disqualifies rape from ever being reconsidered into the category of acceptable behaviour in the first place. In the real world rape apologism has consequences and leads to the very imposing upon people's autonomy that you criticize, in a much more severe way than could possible happen by not engaging in reddit etiquette. Freedom is not jungle law, it depends on an active subjective commitment.

                              You don't get to decide what breaks the rule unless you're an admin

                              Sure but I don't care about reddit rules, or legalism.

                              [–]justreadthecomment 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              The problem with your argument is that criminal conspiracies are not protected speech. You have a very tenuous grasp on what freedom is and what one is free to do.

                              [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 38ポイント39ポイント  (5子コメント)

                              We didn't 'form a mob'. You act like this is directly comparable to real life, but it's not. It's a dumb internet forum. It's a time sink for people bored at work that happens to harbor rapists under your watch. Some of ya'll take this shit way too seriously. For whatever reason, we managed to take down a sub that could enable someone to become a rapist and potentially trigger people who've experienced sexual abuse. There was really nothing unethical about what we did, unless your ethics correlate somehow with reddit's guidelines. And if that's the case, they shouldn't, look into fixing that. You're more than just an admin, you're a human being.

                              [–]milopooch 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              You seem to contradict yourself. First you say that this is a dumb internet forum that is not comparable to real life. You then go on to say that it could enable someone to be a rapist and 'trigger' people who have experience sexual abuse.

                              So which is it?

                              [–]whitemales -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              it's a dumb internet forum that enables rapists. it's not a this or that, it's a 'that'

                              [–]Aman3003 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Protecting a rape sub because internet free speech= too far.

                              That same sub convincing somebody to become a rapist= not too far

                              [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Dumb forum rules = dumb

                              Gathering of rapists = bad

                              that clear it up for you?

                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                [–]JebusGobson 47ポイント48ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                forming a mob to enforce your views is not the way to go about it,

                                Oh really? History proves otherwise!

                                Observe the bourgeoisie shaking in fear of the mass proletariat rising up and letting their voice sound as one.

                                YOU WILL CHAIN US NO LONGER!

                                [–]xveganroxKKE 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Today /r/hookertalk, tomorrow the world! Join us, proletariats of Reddit - you have nothing to lose but your karma!

                                [–]JebusGobson 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I... I can lose my karma? I don't know man, I never signed up for that!

                                [–]HighProductivityLuta 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                What? Calm down man, a shitty subreddit was stopped, not capitalism.

                                [–]lakelly99 31ポイント32ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I'm pretty sure they're kidding...

                                (Well, in terms of the vehemence rather than the sentiment)

                                [–]PoliticalPrisonGuardMarxist-Beardist 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                I'm getting a /r/FULLCOMMUNISM vibe from that comment. I don't think it's meant to be serious, but it is a bit out of place in this sub. It made me laugh though.

                                [–]Ienpw_IIIResist 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                a bit out of place in this sub

                                Says the guy with the Marxist-Beardist flair!

                                [–]UristLemonzحزب الاتحاد الديمقراطي‎ 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Fuck off.

                                [–]Hindu_Wardrobefeminist 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Why is /r/European not quarantined?

                                [–]DJWalnutⒶnarchist 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                because they don't deserve an ad-free VIP experience

                                [–]ProlierThanThou- 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                No, definitely good job everyone.

                                [–]sexylaboratoriesUnified Left 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                The subreddit was banned because it was unmoderated and filling with spam.

                                /u/Sporkicide, please explicitly take a stance against advocates of rape and violence against sex workers on reddit.
                                Could you please reply and state, unambiguously, that subreddits like hookertalk are not welcome and will be banned promptly when reported to the admins?

                                [–]pangea_zebra 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                chill fam you kno that shit is unethical dont play pretend

                                [–]EvilRethuglican 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Ayy lmao

                                God forbid reddit ceases to be a place for rapists, pedophiles, nazis, racists, sexists and other malevolent trolls to spread their feces VALUABLE DISCUSSION™

                                Fuck you! What you lack in empathy for victims of rape and other attrocities (school shootings/racial violence) that your website helps to cultivate (yes, you have blood on your hands for what Dylann Roof did), you make up for in sympathy for the perpetrators.

                                [–]PhyrexianDildoMurray Bookchin 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Eat shit, buddy. If the admins actually did their fucking jobs then the users wouldn't have to force their hands to get obvious garbage fire subs like that removed.

                                You're just mad because direct action got the goods while the admins were all waxing poetic with their thumbs up their asses about community guidelines. Guidelines they can't even be arsed to enforce nine times out ten.

                                [–]prolific13Citizens of the world 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                BAHAHAHA! Of course reddit admins would go to bat for fucking rapists. Like the US government, you idiots care more about "le FREEZE PEACH!!" Ideological bullshit than the well being of human lives.

                                My god would I expect anything more from the people who harbor shit subs like European and TheRedPill?

                                [–]OldClockMan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Of course reddit admins would go to bat for fucking rapists

                                Gotta play to your key demographic boss

                                [–]Tacodude 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Go fuck yourself. You're a terrible person.

                                [–]fuckingriotAnarchist 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Disgusting. Fuck you.

                                [–]kisamara_jishin 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Your organization's policies and the ideology underpinning those policies are both disgusting.

                                [–]WeAreAllGethAngela Davis 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Can you people please just do the right thing for once without making excuses or waiting until the last minute?

                                [–]Suddenly_ElmoDemocratic Socialism 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                If people from /r/socialism and elsewhere hadn't kicked up a fuss about what was going on there, you never would have noticed it. The entire premise of the sub was against reddit's content policy - namely in that it encouraged and incited violence against sex workers. Why do you give a shit about a place getting brigaded when it never should have existed in the first place?

                                If you'd come her and said, "thanks for bringing this to our attention and helping make reddit a better place, but next time let us handle it" then I'd understand. But how you can have the gall to come in here and try to give us a sanctimonious slap on the wrist is fucking beyond me. Take a good long look at yourselves if that's your first reaction as an organisation.

                                [–]WatchYourToneBoyAnarchist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                If challenging rape supporters means getting banned, I'm okay with that. There's a difference between an opinion and advocating for real crime and violence against women. Some things are more important than the rules of some lame Internet forum.

                                [–]Logic_NukeBecause I didn't feel like finding DeLeon 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                forming a mob to enforce your views is not the way to go about it, and it needs to stop now.

                                If you had just done your fucking job to begin with this wouldn't have happened.

                                [–]yngradthegiant 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Well, I'm done with this website now. An admin taking a neutral stance towards a subreddit openly advocating rape, after breaking the rules in regards of not having content that is blatantly illegal and encouraging violence and harassment. And this isn't the first time. Absolutely sickening.

                                [–]TakarovDemocratic Confederalism 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                What happened to the "No encouraging the harassment or bullying of others rule?" I'm genuinely curious, because the sub was violating policy pretty clearly, why does it not apply to that sub but it would to other communities?

                                [–]bigblindmaxLibertarian Socialist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Freeze peach wah! Unruly mob, waaaah!

                                Fuck you, pal.

                                [–]whitemales 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                good to see you're pro rape. that's you, a guy, whose pro-rape.

                                [–]ARobotJetpackUnicorn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                ...i'm so disappointed in you admins.

                                [–]damn_it_so_much 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I was linked to this just now, but wow, i've never seen such a clear declaration from an admin for the moving goalposts the reddit community has to deal with.

                                Reddit has critical mass now, but the moment a viable alternative pops up with clear unbiased "moderation" (in quotes to differentiate from the specific definitions on reddit) you guys are going to lose a lot of users. You better hope you are too big to fail like Facebook.

                                [–]declanatorGirl power grows out of the barrel of a gun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                How about you do your fucking job and stop pretending that spam is a better reason to ban a subreddit than encouraging sexual abuse. Its so obvious why this happened; reddit doesnt want the /r/fatpeoplehate fiasco all over again so they ban subreddits based on ettiquette not their own fucking content policy.

                                Tl;dr the admins are human waste baskets.

                                [–]secludedhotdog 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                Sorry for all these guys :( srs isn't exactly nice when you go against their rhetoric

                                [–]RockyPersistence 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                Checks comment history

                                Aaaaaaand racist piece of shit. I'm shocked.

                                [–]secludedhotdog 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                What? I'm not sure what you mean could you explain you obviously have a lot of time on your hands considering you went through my comment history so you must have time to explain what you mean by calling me a racist piece of shit

                                [–]RockyPersistence 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                You said the N racial slur twice in the first page of your comment history. You also said "statistics are racist" rhetorically.

                                You're also a sexist piece of shit.

                                Fuck off.

                                [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

                                [removed]

                                  [–]RockyPersistence 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Oh yeah, you're all about facts and reason and logic, like the equation "Not being racist or sexist = Scheme to have sex", am I right?

                                  I've only ever said it ironically

                                  You used the word in reference to a picture of two black people hanging from a tree. You're a racist lying piece of shit.

                                  [–]secludedhotdog 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  No I just realize white knights are usually losers with low self esteem who try to get women by doing the same stupid bullshit crazy sjws do and I'm pretty sure that's how you are but idk maybe not you seem to be getting pretty worked up about this and I feel kind of bad for you at this point but whatever. And uh I do really only say it ironically I'm not sure what picture you're talking about? And check the sub if you're telling the truth because I don't remember but I mightve said it on /r/4chan or something. And keep up with the name calling it really reinforces my perception of you

                                  [–]falconfetus8 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  If it's not okay for a subreddit to dictate acceptable content on other subs, then why is /r/shitredditsays not getting a talking to?

                                  [–]electricmink 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Because SRS doesn't brigade (it's against their rules). All it does is link shitty comments and snarks over them within the confines of the sub....with the occasional comment in linked threads, sure, but other than that it's completely hands-off. It would actually go against the entire point of the sub to downvote the comments linked there; the fact a shitty comment is finding support from the reddit community is kind of a big part of what makes it shitty.

                                  [–]WiWiWiWiWiWi -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  forming a mob to enforce your views is not the way to go about it, and it needs to stop now.

                                  /r/ShitRedditSays

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (30 返事)