I’ve never been punched in the face. Not in an actual fight, at least. I’m not much of a fighter, I suppose… More of an “arguer.” I don’t think I’m “scared” to get into a fight, necessarily–There have been many times I have put myself in situations where a physical fight could easily have happened… I just can’t see myself ever being the guy who throws the first punch, and I’m usually the kind of guy who DE-escalates things with logic or humor. And one of the things about being that sort of person, is that the other sort of guy–the sort who jumps into fights quickly–tends to not really be a big fan of me… Not when he first meets me, at least. They usually like me later. Not always. You can’t win ’em all…
The first rule of White Club is you do not talk about White Club…
When I moved to Nashville, I didn’t really know anyone. I got a job as a server on my second day here, and before long, I was one of the servers the management favored… Which meant I got better shifts, better sections, and better money. About nine months after I had been there, a new guy started. We instantly disliked each other. He didn’t like my smart mouth, and I didn’t like how he walked in and immediately acted like he owned the place. He carried himself with this annoying confidence… Like it was his world, and he would tolerate our being in it, as long as we stayed out of his damn way. There were also rumors that this guy had spent some time in jail, and it was very clear that he was NOT a “DE-escalater.” He was the sort of guy who knew exactly how much he could bench, you know? And you could sense that–just below the surface–there was always this restless energy that silently dared you to say something… He was an intimidating dude.
So it bothered me a little bit when–only a month after he started working there–he was already getting rotated into some of the good sections… Another mouth to feed meant less money for me… He was a good server though. But nothing he did got under my skin nearly as bad as this: When Chuck (we’ll call him “Chuck. His name wasn’t Chuck, but it was definitely a name in the “Chuck” category of names. It certainly wasn’t a pushover name like “Chris”) would walk toward you, he ALWAYS expected YOU to be the one to move out of the way. He didn’t do this when walking toward girls… But if he and another GUY (me especially) were heading toward each other, he would head straight for the other guy–not making eye contact–and he always assumed he had the right of way. If not, you would get bumped by this stocky, solid mass of aggression who seemed to be just itching for someone to question his intended path. And really, this seemed to best describe how Chuck lived his whole life–Walking straight at people, and expecting them to move. Until one day…
Turns out there are other people…
I had had enough. I kept thinking “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?” Just about everyone else in the world seemed to agree that if two people were walking toward each other, both people would acquiesce a little… Leaning the side closest to the other person back just so. What gave this guy the right to just EXPECT that I’m going to move out of his way? And then another thought started tugging at my brain: “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?” I was done playing by his rules. And that evening, as he walked quickly toward me in the aisle of the restaurant (we both were fairly fast walkers), I walked toward him… And I didn’t move. I’m not a giant of a man, but I’m solid enough to hold my own–especially when I see a collision coming–and the impact spun him around. Right there, in front of guests, he immediately said, “What the F*CK, dude!?” I said, “You alright?” He was furious, and insisting to know WHY I had just bumped into him. I said, “Chuck, I was just walking… Why did you assume that I was going to move out of your way?” He followed me around the restaurant, angrily attempting to escalate things. He ended up stopping me by another table, and when I said something along the lines of “Welcome to planet Earth,” he shoved me. Hard. And not like a shove where you put your hands on someone and then shove… It was the sort of shove where his hands were already moving really fast when they hit my chest, and it made a pretty loud noise. All of his bench-pressing muscles let lose on me–this person who dared question his right of way–and I was knocked about two steps back.
I walked away from him, and I could feel my heart beating in my ears. I thought about what I should do… If I should say something to a manager (that didn’t seem like a good idea), if I should say anything more to Chuck (that seemed like an even WORSE idea)… I decided to just try to avoid him for a bit and let him cool off. About 15 minutes later, the GM asked to talk to me. He said that a guest had seen Chuck angrily shove me, and had complained and described what happened (describing it as him “hitting” me, but it was definitely a shove). I told him what happened–about him always assuming I was going to move, about me simply walking and not moving, and about the arguing and the shove that followed. It was a corporate restaurant, so he took everything very seriously. He filled out an incident report, asked me if I wanted to press charges, and told me if I wanted him gone, he was fired. I said that I didn’t want the guy to lose his job… I just wanted him to recognize that other people had every right to be there that he did.
And so, I recently thought about this story again after I had just read this amazing quote (a quote for which I tried very hard to find an attribution, but kept coming up “Unknown):
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.”
And things started making a little more sense to me. All this anger we see from people screaming “All Lives Matter” in response to black protesters at rallies… All this anger we see from people insisting that THEIR “religious freedom” is being infringed because a gay couple wants to get married… All these people angry about immigrants, angry about Muslims, angry about “Happy Holidays,” angry about not being able to say bigoted things without being called a bigot… They all basically boil down to people who have grown accustomed to walking straight at other folks, and expecting THEM to move. So when “those people” in their path DON’T move… When those people start wondering, “Why am I always moving out of this guy’s way?” When those people start asking themselves, “What if I didn’t move? What if I just kept walking too?” When those people start believing that they have every bit as much right to that aisle as anyone else… It can seem like THEIR rights are being taken away.
Can a brother get some “peach?”
Equality can FEEL like oppression. But it’s not. What you’re feeling is just the discomfort of losing a little bit of your privilege… The same discomfort that an only child feels when she goes to preschool, and discovers that there are other kids who want to play with the same toys as she does. It’s like an old man being used to having a community pool all to himself, having that pool actually opened up to everyone in the community, and then that old man yelling, “But what about MY right to swim in a pool all by myself?!?”
This is the “Again” of “Make America Great Again.” Don’t worry–They’ll just open some swim clubs and make the membership really expensive…
And what we’re seeing politically right now is a bit of anger from both sides. On one side, we see people who are angry about “those people” being let into “our” pool. They’re angry about sharing their toys with the other kids in the classroom. They’re angry about being labeled a “racist,” just because they say racist things and have racist beliefs. They’re angry about having to consider others who might be walking toward them… strangely exerting their right to exist. On the other side, we see people who believe that pool is for everyone. We see people who realize that when our kids throw a fit in preschool, we teach them about how sharing is the right thing to do. We see people who understand being careful with their language as a way of being respectful to others. We see people who are attempting to stand in solidarity with the ones who are claiming their right to exist… The ones who are rightfully angry about having to always move out of the way… People who are asking themselves the question, “What if I just keep walking?”
Which kind of person are you?
I should mention that “Chuck” and I eventually became friends… Proving that people who see the world very differently can get along when they are open to change, and when they are willing to try to see the world though another person’s eyes. There is hope.
Thank you so much for reading. If you liked what you read, I’d love it if you’d share this post. We’re almost three fifths of the way to the first milestone on the Patreon campaign, which is so very cool. If you’d like to help support this blog, you can Become A Patron. Tatawan Suto did! Best. Name. Ever. Or, just like a server in a restaurant, you can leave a tip on PayPal. You can subscribe to this blog near the top of this page, or you can also get involved in the conversation on Facebook and Twitter. Here’s something that adds to the conversation, even though it’s by a white guy:
I’ve known this from the beginning, hearing it from those I actually know who are part of the Trump revolution, that their anger is rooted in growing up white in the 50s, 60s or 70s with a worldview (including a deep sense of privilege) which no longer fits today’s America.
That’s the “again” in Make America Great Again…
I love your takedown of this issue.
Well said! I’ve never thought of it quite like this before (even though I have lots of different metaphors for it) but this is a pretty accurate summation of the current climate.
Thank you so much.
I don’t listen to hip hop. That was really worth it, though. And: “They’re angry about being labeled a racist, just because they say racist things and have racist beliefs”; doesn’t that happen so often? So I would try not to label people, and just criticize racist speech and actions.
Very well said
Like pos you
Truth.
What utter BS. What he is describing is self doubt and confidence which is not privilege. Geez, people. Learn what words mean. Privilege is something that was given to you that can be taken away. Like voting, or a parent giving children toys.
Your feelings are not “privilege” or lack thereof. And your feelings in the real world don’t matter. Your not required to like someone to work with them, it helps but it is not necessary, and they don’t have to like you either.
And maybe just maybe the guy was really a better server than you. Which is why he got the better shifts. The only person who can judge that is the employer because he is ultimately paying the paychecks and so he/she gets to decide who gets the shifts. raises etc. You can believe that you are better than the other person but ultimately your “belief” doesn’t matter.
People are not angry at seeing “others being in our pools” … We’re fucking angry because we keep getting told by prissy little snowflakes that certain groups of people have some magical privilege that they don’t.
Guess what you fucking precious snowflakes. EVERYONE has self doubts, and questions things. You are assuming that certain people don’t and that is the problem. YOUR assumptions.
Self entitled brats, grow up, and go make something of yourselves instead of whining and complaining about nothing.
After a comment like that, I’m way too smart to waste my time trying to convince you of all the things about what you just wrote that are complete garbage… You are so far away from a place of actual understanding that it would take years. Just so you know, though, the uneven playing field of what supremacy is not imagined. It’s well-documented. You can read all about it…
Just from your response, I would bet you anything–absolutely anything in the world–that you are white. And as frustrating as it is that the ranks of angry white folks like yourself–angry at all the “prissy little snowflakes” “whining and complaining about nothing”–seems to be increasing… I know enough about history to see the trajectory in this step of human consciousness. And we’re heading toward dinosaurs like yourself becoming more and more rare. Angry dinosaurs who solve their problems with name-calling and screaming… scared of the imminent changes on the horizon. And even if we find ourselves living in a “two steps back” phase of this “three steps forward, two steps back” way of change happening, I am confident that we’re moving in a more loving, more equitable direction.
Wow you are a special type of retard aren’t you?
I’d explain to you what my comment meant but I’m not sure I can dumb it down for you to understand enough but I’ll try just for you buttercup.
In the real world, when you apply for jobs, they call you for an interview based on your resume. They do this because of the job experience or other skills listed on it.
This has zero to do with skin color, sexuality etc.
Then when you come in for an interview .. they ask questions based on the resume and your experience etc.
This is not based on your skin color etc, race, or gender.
Now buttercup … this is where you are confused.
Self doubt is when you think something like ” Did I fail that job interview because I’m black?”
Just because a white male got the job doesn’t mean that is privilege. That is called a free market. Jobs are not based on skin color or gender. There are laws against that.
Self doubt is your feelings. Which can be wrong.
And guess what buttercup, white men experience self doubt too.
“Did I fail to get that job because I’m white?” – This is called self doubt.
(I said it a few times so maybe you can understand the words if they are repeated. You know, like parents do to infants.).
Now the only changes on the horizon is the fall of the SJWS and the Feminists who think they have any right to tell everyone else what to think, feel or do.
The only angry people I can see are people like you buttercup. I’m actually a happy person who just happens to not put up with bullshit like that crap in the article. It was total nonsense that has no basis in facts. it was a piece of nonsense that was pushing the agenda that feelings are more important than reality.
Grow up. Get a job and do something constructive with your life.
You are just a delight, dude. It doesn’t come as a surprise at all that you would drop the r-word… Now, in addition to being certain that you are white, I can also be certain that you don’t have kids with developmental disabilities as well. http://theboeskool.com/2012/12/04/letting-go-of-the-r-word/
It’s interesting that you brought up applying for jobs. There have been multiple studies showing that–when sending in a resume–applicants with “black sounding names” are half as likely to get called back. Here’s one: http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html
Also, it is currently legal in almost all places in the US to fire someone simply because they are gay. There is no federal protection whatsoever against that brand of discrimination. http://employment.findlaw.com/employment-discrimination/sexual-orientation-discrimination-in-the-workplace.html
Those are facts. Another fact is that you wrote “There are laws against that.” So i’m assuming you are in favor of laws meant to keep people from discriminating against someone else based on their skin color… What would happen if you found out that over a period of 70 or so years there were systems in place to discriminate against people of color (systemic racism) both in housing (redlining) and punishment for crimes?
And really, if you think about it, your view that these systems DON’T, in fact, exist is based entirely in white supremacy. “African-Americans are twice as likely as whites to be unemployed and they earn nearly 25 percent less when they are employed.” “Female full-time workers made only 79 cents for every dollar earned by men.” These facts are not–in your view–based on any systems in place to keep “white” & “male” as the norms, but they are based on merit… Translation? White men earn more because they are better at things… Translation? You are neck-deep in white supremacy. And that, along with the fact that your head is clearly up your own ass, leaves very little access to parts of you to try to reason with…
Last thing–I welcome differing views here, but if you call someone a “retard” again on my page, you will get blocked. You can disagree with ideas without being a jerk. Well… I should say, “It’s POSSIBLE to disagree with ideas without being a jerk.” Whether YOU PERSONALLY can do it is yet to be seen. Here’s one more thing to read: http://theboeskool.com/2016/01/09/you-have-every-right-to-say-racist-things/
Please note that I am writing from the UK, and therefore my experiences and society may be different fo yours. The relevant legislation is the Equality Act 2010: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents
“In the real world, when you apply for jobs, they call you for an interview based on your resume. They *should* do this because of the job experience or other skills listed on it.”
The reality is that racism, sexism, and a whole host of other problems do exist in society. Nevertheless I don’t accept that this is because of rampant systemic racial or gender (or other) bias. Yes there are some individual employers who are biased, BUT MOST AREN’T.
I note comments regarding gender pay gap. I repeat the comments above, and would point out that a recebt study (apologies for lack of citation – I simply can’t find it) found that women tended to take subjects at school and university which led to traditionally lower paid jobs. I believe that one of the examples given was theatre studies, which tends to attract more females, as opposed to engineering where the reverse is true.
In any event, whilst it may be true that girls are steered towards such subjects from a young age by teachers, parents, society etc, I do not see how you can force theatres to pay similar salaries to their employees (more of whom happen to be women) as engineers (more of whom happen to be men).
I would also say that, as a white male, I do find it dispiriting that whenever lack equality is mentioned, the allegation appears to be that I personally am responsible for inequality, or am at least colluding with some organised plot to oppress people of other races and genders (and sexes, abilities, etc). The presumption seems to be that anything I have argued has ONLY been achieved because I am white and make, which assumption I consider to be unfair.
It should be remembered that white men are just as much ‘victims’ of the system in that they as a group (and often as individuals) have no control over it.
An example in the UK media is the case of a university ‘diversity officer’ who banned white men from an event. http://dailym.ai/1aYgl1e
Finally I would leave you with the thought ghat equality is something that can only be achieved when people simply see each other as people. That is never going to happen whilst white men, as a group, are seen as the enemy and are blamed for every injustice suffered by anyone who isn’t.
In my view, we should be embraced as part of the solution, not derided as the problem.
Oh, Grypyhn….Being a condescending a-hole is *never* the way to make your point. You just ruined your entire argument.
You can’t argue with idiots like Gryphyn3. People generally do not like to acknowledge that their views might be wrong. Doing so would mean having to do some self-reflection and acknowledging that they have been a bigot/homophobe/misogynist/racist for the past however many years of their lives.
There’s a racist comment right there. “Must be white” Contradictory much? If you don’t like racism, make sure you practice what you preach. Don’t pretend to be some kind of advocate unless you can open your mind and stop making assumptions. I read the spiel too and not once did race come to mind. What do you think equality is?
I made the mistake of clicking on your “men’s rights,” “it’s okay to hit women,” “rape is made up” diatribes. Never mind. It CAN feel like oppression, can’t it… When everyone seems like they’re against the straight, white man. Talk about your precious snowflakes… It seems that you’ve created quite a world of “Everyone Is Out To Get Me.” Poor thing…
lol No just feminists and SJW’s are out to attack anyone who has a view that differs from theirs and wants to silences them, via laws, guilt and lies.
And yes white men are blamed for everything.
They are blamed for slavery. They are blamed for oppressing women. They are blamed for homophobia. They are blamed for racism. They are blamed for sexism.
These are all lies of course, that have been fed by feminists and liberals for decades.
If you want the truth then yes. It is okay to hit a woman, if she is hitting you. That is called abuse and assault and as a human being you have every right to defend yourself from attack.
I never wrote anything about rape being made up. I did write that “rape culture” is a myth. That is different than the crime of rape, which is very real.
I suggest that before you make broad assumptions about what I wrote to actually read the words and learn their meanings and not use assumptions and presumptions based on the titles, because your obviously either to ignorant to understand certain concepts or ignorant to facts.
Wow, this article was outstanding. And effective; you’ve managed to smoke one out of his lair and rile him up with the truth. Your article is given more weight because of this guy’s comments. Good stuff all around.
Yeah, and this is the first I’ve heard that women are drawn to subjects in school that get them lower paying jobs than men. Good try, Matthew Rose.
Gryphyn3: churlish and sophomoric.
Agreed.
Needs a big hug. From a grizzly
I hope you have enough self-awareness to realize that you’re confirming what the original post was talking about for literally *anyone* who wasn’t quite sure. This incoherent rant is the epitome of an only child having a melt-down because he’s being asked to share for the first time. Exactly what OP meant.
I hate to break it to you but this “the world doesn’t care about your feelings” stuff you’re talking about? It works both ways. Nobody feels bad for you because you no longer get to boss around women and people of color without getting called on it. That is some special snowflake shit right there.
Original author, you know you’re onto something when these types come out of the woodwork. Great job.
It’s a metaphor. Or even an allegory, as long as it is. It’s a story showing an example of a situation. It may have really happened like that. It may not have happened like that. But it was written with the intent of explaining something and it flew right over your head. When privilege is taken away, the formerly privileged feel oppressed. The author chose to explain that in the manner written above. Attacking all these other things detracts from the point of the article.
(This is posted in response to a reply you made further down, but for some reason, I can’t comment directly on that).
“Jobs are not based on skin color or gender. There are laws against that.”
And yet it happens.
At one job I worked at, I had to go through applications to find my replacement when I decided to leave. I was told that “anyone over 30” was too old. When I responded I was 29 and asked if I was “too old”, I was told I was “different”. Needless to say, I ignored their stupid directive and selected the best candidates – but that wouldn’t have happened if they had been in charge of pre-selection.
Another time I was managing a photo processing store and was told not to hire anyone Aboriginal. When I questioned this, I was told “even if they’re OK, their families expect free stuff and they’ll probably steal from us”. Again, I decided I’d choose the person I thought was best for the job. When that person left (family crisis), the owners decided to give the job to a friend of the family. Someone with absolutely zero experience and, unfortunately, very little capacity for learning the job. There was no vetting of applications to find the most appropriately qualified candidate.
At a job interview for another company, I was told that I was a great candidate, but what assurances could I give that I wasn’t going to “run off in 6 months’ time to have a baby?” I’m pretty sure men are never asked what their plans for parenthood are at job interviews.
And in most of these cases, despite discrimination laws, there wasn’t any real way for anyone to bring a case about. If you’re a 32 year old woman, or a person of colour who receives a letter to a job application advising “thank you, due to the number of applicants you were unfortunately unsuccessful”, how do you know – let alone prove – it was because of your age, or race? And even after not getting the job I was “a great candidate” for, how can I prove my gender and the possibility of me having a child was the cause of me not getting the job, rather than them deciding on someone else who was also “a great candidate”?
I’m sure I’m not the only person in the world who can cite similar experiences.
Perhaps you’ve never heard the adage “it’s not WHAT you know, it’s WHO you know”.
That’s privilege.
Absolutely.
I recently learned a term that describes this perfectly: REWP — Randomly Exploding White Person. It’s a term for a person who explodes and unloads for no good reason after hearing about the real phenomenon of their privilege of that racism exists.
You show from the beginning you didn’t really read this. He didn’t ever say the other guy was better regarded or liked than he was. He said he was well regarded, which was probably confirmed by the response of the mgt to the conflict. I am afraid you merely affirm the point of the article rather than refute it
A privilege is defined as a special right granted to only a particular person or small group of people. It is not what you describe. A privilege can be taken away. Ask my kids.
This anger you are showing is a perfect example of what he is talking about. He was not really complaining about the guy getting better shift. He even acquiesced that the guy was a good server. He took offense to the guys assumption that all other guys were going to move out of his way. He other guy seemed to assume, whether consciously or not, that he had the right to stay his path and others would move. Dr Suess wrote a short book about that that you shouldn’t have any trouble reading. The message is pretty clear.
You are not the only person on the planet. Others are just as important as you.
Voting is a right to every citizen, not a privilege. And you are correct. You don’t have to like someone to work with them. You do however, need to respect each other. The actions he describes are disrespectful on a simple human level. They are both servers at the same restaurant, so what makes “Chuck” believe that anyone should move out of his way simply because he is there? Privilege and entertainment!
Both people should make way for each other so that they both can reach their destination smoothly.
And as is seems, you have completely missed the message of this story. And at your level of comprehension you won’t understand. If you aren’t willing to try understanding something that might be foreign to you, why bother reading at all? Why click the link and why respond?
The point is, this has nothing to do with “Chuck’s” work ability and everything to do with how “Chuck” treats people without even realizing it! That is the message! You do not know your privlage until it is challenged. That is not difficult to understand.
But what do I know, it’s only my life. I can’t possibly have a valid point. I am a snowflake after all…
Excellent point. I am surrounded by people who see others’ equality as oppression for them. The supposed oppressed are the ones who are really insecure since they are most likely afraid they have nothing else going for them but their status whether it’s religion, race, or something else.
This is exactly what I wrote in my own Facebook post last month. I wrote about my dissertation research where a middle school teacher found she called on boys more than girls. When she began using tic marks to be sure she called on each equally, it only took three days for the boys to begin complaining that she never called on them. When she showed them the tic marks indication one mark boys, one for girls, they refused to believe her and said she better call on them more the next day. When you experienced unearned privilege because of skin color or gender or economic status, when someone else achieves some equality, your loss of privilege is just that – loss – and you don’t want things to be so equal.
Wow. I’d love to read that.
Same here!
I’d like to see that / have that study in my list of resources – wld you mind emailing me? nora.samaran@gmail.com
I wonder why this female teacher called on boys more than girls in the beginning. Was she brainwashed by The Patriarchy?
The boys might have shown more obvious signs of inattentiveness? I noticed that on average a boy not paying attention would be disruptive, vs a girl only damaging her own education. Both annoy me.
I don’t believe in the patriarchy though, but in an equally damaging equal opportunity socialisation issue. It’s men and women oppressing everyone they have a little power over and forcing thier ideals down over. Just rich white men had a head start which is slowly balancing out with the Hilary Clintons of the world. (I have seen rich white women target poorer white women for example with things that are usually blamed on men much harsher than I have from men of equal social standing).
jsc1202, this is a wonderful, concise example of the point of this excellent article. I hope you don’t mind if I use it, in the future, to explain this concept to others. I also would really like to read your dissertation… if you’d be willing to share. (debi4peace@yahoo.ca) I believe it’s a topic we need to talk about, as a society.
I would like to read that as well. Research is where it’s at!
Quote is from Brian Sims, Pennsylvania House of Representatives. Read up on him–he’s an interesting guy.
I think the quote pre-dates Brian Sims. I saw his name come up as I was trying to find who to attribute it to, but I found a comment on an early 2008 thread (on a carpet cleaning site, or something) by a person whose handle is “AlysonRR.” That is well before Sims’ public life…
Pingback: When You’re Accustomed To Privilege, Equality Feels Like Oppression « Jessica Tenorio
We all need to be respected by others , doesn’t mean some , it means all. We are all equals.
AMEN!!!!
Reblogged this on Adventures and Musings of an Arch Druidess.
I was glad to read you and ‘Chuck’ became friends.
Wrote, recently, of a St Louis poet I heard whose poem highlighting a similar story that stripped bare certain attitudes of privilege. “Equality,” she said, “always means somebody loses power.”
Also kudos for the rational way you handled your troll, above.
I think you’re pretty clueless about what you are writing about. You say that people are upset about gay marriage infringing on their religious beliefs….well, yeah, when someone says they don’t believe in gay marriage, could you please take your business elsewhere, and then are attacked, threatened and sued for it. They’re not saying you can’t get married, just that I don’t believe in your union, but feel free to go elsewhere. The First Amendment enunciates the right to practice and follow a religion. As long as they are not interfering with someone else’s right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then they should be allowed to live unbothered as well. People are angry about immigrants and Muslims…why? Illegal immigrants cost communities millions more in tax dollars than they pay out in taxes. So yeah, that’s something to be angry about. Why are people angry at Muslims? Because you are constantly hearing of Muslims getting privileges that other Americans don’t get, like getting breaks to pray, and prayer rooms at school. Schools around the world have had to change their menus to accomodate Muslims, which is understandable, but not fair to other children and students who may not like the new fare. There was a town in New England in the early 2000’s where Muslims got enough political power to ban public drinking, and it put out one of the local bars that lost business as a result. You say people get mad at being told they have to say Happy Holidays. It goes back again to the freedom of religion. Basically what you are saying is that people with “privilege” need to be torn down and have to cater to the needs of the intolerant, rather than the “intolerant” learning to be tolerant. If someone says Merry Christmas to you, they are wishing you goodwill, even if you are not a Christian or are an atheist. It’s not meant to be offensive. If you are Muslim and don’t believe in public drinking, don’t drink in public. Don’t force others to subscribe to your beliefs.
Using your analogy of people walking towards each other. Normal people do give way to one another. That’s how it should be. You show fairness and tolerance. What you’re really saying though is that the people who used to walk and get their way, they now have to step aside and let others have the right of way. You can’t create equality by tearing people down and giving other people more rights and more privileges. As Friedrich Hayek said, There is all the difference in the world between treating people equally and attempting to make them equal. Let’s lift people up, rather than tear them down.
I didn’t hear the author say for the other to cede the right of way. It sounded as if Chuck was taking up more than his fair share of the space and crowded others out.
This is what white culture does to many who aren’t like us, and it’s real. I get your frustration that things are changing, but thank God we’re in a new time.
Let’s break down your assumptions. No one’s “religious freedom” is being infringed upon by marriage equality. What is being infringed upon is their ability to refuse service in a manner that is non-compliant with civic laws regarding discrimination. A person whose religion doesn’t “believe in” gay people getting married has not been prohibited from attending church, believing in whatever version of God they worship, or been forbidden to adhere to the tenets of their faith. No one is asking you to bake a cake and renounce Jesus–they’re asking you to bake a cake, and if that’s your job, you do your job. If your religion precludes you from doing your job, then find another job. Real faith takes sacrifice. And if you are a “person of faith” who’s a government official who must sign a document establishing the legality of someone else’s *legal* marriage in civil context, then yes, your “free exercise of your religion” IS, in fact, interfering with someone else’s life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Muslims are not being given “special privileges” to accommodate their faith–barriers to their free exercise of their faith are being removed. If you think a prayer room is a special privilege, then perhaps you want to examine the fact that the entire school shuts down for Christmas. Sundays (days of Christian worship) are days when millions of businesses have historically been closed to accommodate *that* faith. Our entire government shuts down on Sundays and Christmases. Our entire business model operates around accommodating Christian faith, and has for hundreds of years. Liquor is still not sold on Sunday mornings (or the entire day) in thousands of counties because of Christianity. And putting Halal hot dogs on the menu is “Muslims receiving privilege?” This right here illustrates the point of the original post. The idea that people of the dominant culture being inconvenienced by the presence or acknowledgement of people who are different only *feels* like oppression. What it actually is, is that you have to acknowledge that you are not the only one whose feelings matter.
Share the pool. It’s no fun playing “Marco Polo” by yourself.
Hey, who left this mic on the floor? Someone could trip and fall…
You misread almost everything I posted. I’ll summarize: There’s a way of life that currently exists for normal people in America. What the author proposes, and you support it seems, is making those normal people have to give up some of their rights and freedoms so that other people can live their lives. You both seem to believe it is ok to tear down some people to lift others up and over. We see teachers and coaches and school being told they can’t have Christian or even Jewish prayers, but Muslims are getting special accomodations to pray. I’m not against that. I’m for Christians and Jews being allowed to say prayers before games, or in the morning letting a principal recite verses from the Bible. I’m for letting people celebrate religious holidays. As for the gay marriage, again, there needs to be tolerance both ways. But there are many who are using their minority status to oppress others and forcing them into accepting their lifestyle. No one would stand up and support a Christian making everyone go to their church and pray to God, so why do people support legal oppression when it comes to gay marriage?
👏👏👏.
What abt “in god we trust” on all american currency, or having to place your hand on a bible in american courts, or god in the pledge of allegiance to the US?!?!? Are those all not accomodating to christians??? And let’s not forget Christians don’t have SET prayer times as Muslims do. If they did, I’m sure they would be accommodated as well.
That was brilliant. Can I borrow your brain please?
Have you been in middle east? Have you seen special accommodations to Christians in that part of the world?
I feel this way about the response of many men to increased women’s rights. There’s this anger, as if women are taking advantage of them.
I have to ask…you don’t find it ironic that ‘Chris’ (we’ll call him Chris), is obsessed with Chucks behaviour and how it infringes on him instead of focussing on his own, and that his choice of action is to intentionally run into Chuck? Instead of say discussing it first? Or even talking to management. And then accuses Chuck of being childish?….oh god….I’m participating in one of these carefully constructed, stereotypical fictions socialists use on Facebook to try to make make there views seem more valid. Bad Me!!
1) I didn’t “intentionally run into him.” I simply didn’t intentionally get out of his way… There is a difference.
2) I did talk to him about it… He didn’t seem to care much.
3) And how strange that you would advise me to go to “management” in this scenario… it almost sounds like you believe that when some members of society aren’t living up to their end of the bargain in the social contract, that management should get involved to enforce right action and equitable distribution of power/resources. This doesn’t sound like the MO of someone as adept as yourself at sniffing out socialist apologetics.
This podcast does a pretty good job of separating the wheat from the chaff: http://www.philosophyinaction.com/podcasts/2013-12-29-Q2.html
Some of us “white privileged” are not angry from losing a portion of our privilege. We aren’t against immigrants because we don’t want to share or let other people in our pool. We aren’t upset because we have to move out of the way when we are walking. And we most certainly are NOT Bullies as the waiter story analogy compares us. And we get tired of having people tell us why we feel the way we feel.
I didn’t grow up rich. I struggled, maybe not as much as some, but definitely more than others. I have worked since I was 16. I have paid my taxes, I have paid my student loans, and I have looked to government assistance for help a time or two. I will be the first to say “don’t complain about pressing 1 to hear it in English! We weren’t the first ones here either”. I remind people constantly that this is a “melting pot” and meant to be a safe haven for those who want to pursue the “American dream”. BUT, what I disagree with is when they (UNLIKE MY ANCESTORS, who btw are all registered upon arrival and came through one place by legal means) are here illegally and do not have to follow the same laws that I do. That is not MY privilege, rather theirs! I know (FOR A FACT) that illegal immigrants here, despite their income or financial circumstances, are ENTITLED to free school uniforms, free school supplies, free lunch, and there are NO taxes deducted from their pay checks! How is that my privilege? It is not that I don’t want to share my pool. I just want to have the same rules for us all. As far as being at war with a country and allowing immigrants. I do feel that it is smart to do it carefully and legally. I feel that it is foolish to act blindly and you risk your own nation’s safety. Again, not stingy with my pool just not wanting someone to come in with a container of poison and dump it in while I am swimming. Maybe that would never happen, but if it did….too late! So why not take precautions.
I would like to think that I am not a prejudice person. I see people for who they are and not the color of their skin. I do see that there are many areas of poor “non-white” and the circumstances are horrible. I feel that law enforcement is more critical of these areas. I feel that some law enforcement are bullies and abuse their authority. If you look at statistics, though, they kill all colors. When you look at percentages of the population and percentages of deaths, they seem to be quite close. You can pull up a liberal or a conservative report or chart that will “PROVE” on side or the other., but when you look at percentages based on population…it shows a truer story. So I stand by all lives matter. I never had slaves, but the stories sicken me. I do feel, though, that we are beyond that horrible history now. We have black only colleges. We have black only scholarships, We have black only TV channels and award shows. We have many more programs and assistances available for those of “non-white” origin, than we do for white. And I am in agreement that these programs are needed to help overcome the oppression of the past. I have so many family members that are mixed….my granddaughter. I do not want her to feel that one part of her matters but the other doesn’t. I want her to know without a doubt that every part of her is a beautiful gift from God, that can be anything or do anything with enough commitment and hard work. She is the most precious thing I’ve known for some time, but every part of her matters. Not because I am privileged, but because I love all sides of her and she matters completely
I believe there is racism. I see it. Whites hating and disrespecting blacks. Blacks hating and disrespecting whites. Other races mixed in there too….. I stand in line at the Walmart deli, until I leave…watching every non-white person come in after me and get spoken to and waited on. I watched every non-white person get handed a coupon for a free pretzel and the pretzel stand and my son held his hand out and I get “can I help you”. Why do they disrespect or hate me? What have I done, other than be born with light skin. No I haven’t felt the oppression that many non-whites have. I am not saying that I am comparing myself in that way at all. I am merely saying….why hate me when I have nothing but love and respect for you. Why harbor bitter anger and resentment toward someone you do not even know.
I fully agree with allowing people to live the life that they choose. Their choice of sexuality, religion, etc. If your are in a government position, there should be no option as to whether or not you perform your duties. Your job is paid for by Americans and you have a responsibility to ALL Americans. But a private business, on the other hand, should not be made to go against their beliefs. You should not ask a Jew or Muslim to sell pork, and you should not ask a Christian to make wedding cakes for a homosexual couple. I myself would not have a problem making it, but the Bible tells us that if we feel it is a sin then it becomes a sin to us. As well we are not to be a stumbling block for our brother. I don’t believe we should force prayer in school. Although I want my child to know his God, so do other parents of different religion. I am quick to argue that “Happy Holidays” is a respectful way for people of this melting pot to wish one another a blessed time of year no matter what religion they choose.
I am angry right now. It is not for the reasons that you would like to believe and tell yourselves. It is because I want to live in a nation of equality. I want to live in a safe nation. I want to live in a nation of peace. I want to know that my tax dollars are not being spent on destroying the nation that so many of my loved ones fought to defend. But it is not equal and it is not safe and it is not peaceful. We need to be cleaning our own house, before trying to organize someone else’s.
I don’t want see any one of color being treated unfairly. I don’t want to be treated unfairly. We lose 42% of our income to deductions. 37% taxes and our health care doubled this year. Because we make more, they take more. I am sorry but how is that fair????? My husband works a high risk job and we are without him for weeks at a time. My child spends most holidays without his father! I spend half the year without a husband….something I would venture to guess most would not do. So his company compensates him for his sacrifice….OUR sacrifice. Then the government punishes us because we make more. YES IM ANGRY!!!!
Sure corporations need to pay taxes. I agree! They need to do their share just like the rest of us. NO minimum wage doesn’t need to be what I make with a degree and two certifications. What use is education and credentials at that point??? What good is a political party? Everyone has different ideas of what would work best for this nation. Some will agree, some will not. Hence voting. But for pete’s sake, people, why do we have to sling so much mud and make fun of the opposition? Why is it okay to base your political campaign on how far you can beat someone else down. If there was a candidate who ran on his own credentials and didn’t need to criticize and degrade and disrespect, we may have a true president that would respect this nation and it’s people enough to make a true change.
Sometimes it is not that we are angry because we don’t want to loose our privileges, but rather that we want EQUALITY!! True equality. Same laws for all, same rules for all, same rights for all. Same pool for everyone, just everyone should have to pay the same thing to get in. Everyone should have to follow the same rules to swim there. If I can’t bring my pool toys in, then someone else should be given free ones to play with while there. Stop trying so hard to make up for the past that you punish the present. Just make it equal! Get rid of the corrupt if they see through “white” goggles. Get rid of the corrupt if they see through “non-white” goggles. Protect the people and preserve the nation. For God’s sake people (no matter who your God is) figure out a way to love one another. Maybe you think me foolish for wanting to say “can’t we all just get along”, but I dream of a day that it could be. Dr. Rev. MLK Jr. said that we should judge only by what is in the heart, yet we don’t take time to know what that is. We jump to quick conclusions as to why we feel someone says that “all lives matter”. They all did to him.
A common thread I have seen is they this and they that. I don’t care what others get free, or what others have it is not my business. Maybe if we quit looking at what others get or don’t get we wouldn’t be so angry. Whites disrespect blacks and visa versa. What it really comes down to is we are ALL selfish humans. We can all love each other by simply treating each other the way we want ot be treated.
Wow, glad you got to read something that wasn’t common then. If you read that into mine, then I have worded it incorrectly. I am aware of what they get, and I don’t care what they get….but I care that because I feel that “all lives matter” I am a “bigot, racist that doesn’t want immigrants to be treated equally”. I am pointing out that MAYBE the inequality is being portrayed askew, just a bit. Please do not take my pointing out facts as complaining or focusing on, but rather stating that I am aware and I do not like being told that I am not being fair if I don’t want them here illegally. Like I said, same set of rules for us all. It will never change until we stop blaming and start changing. Not by placing more burden on a few, or placing more privilege on some….but by becoming a common group set on a common goal. Don’t assume, please, that because I feel that everyone should follow the same laws, it means I do not want others to have. Somewhere, back in history each of our ancestors came here and struggled….legally! If I go to another country I will have to do it legally. humans are all selfish, and that is what I tried to stress throughout was, see what is in the heart. My anger is from being told that my feelings make me this…or….that. It is from posts stating that if I am not ok with a portion of people in America not living by the same laws as I do, then I am a bad person. My anger is because we “claim” we want to have equality but continue to separate more and more every day. I am sure that I can not fathom the true depth of some circumstances of oppression. Even if I have someone explain it to me I can only be aware of it, but not understand. But I do know that I feel that everyone matters. No matter who , where, what when or why…you matter.
That was 1622 words.
Kimberly–There is a difference between equality and equity. You can’t have a race where some start from the starting line while others start from 100 yards back and others are forced to run with a parachute on their backs, and then demand “equality.”
Here, read this: http://theboeskool.com/2016/02/23/i-dont-know-a-damn-thing-about-black-lives/
I was going to respond to something along these lines, but this is great. I would only add that my response was going to point out that pool analogy strikes me as quite nationalist, in that there were different rules to get into the pool when my grandparents arrived. To demand equality would be to require every single citizen to reapply for citizenship with the understanding that some of us would be denied the opportunity to stay. In the pool analogy, everyone swimming would be warned that the rules of admission have changed, and that everyone has to be ready to get out.
Equal doesn’t always mean fair!!!
If there is a 4 year old boy, a 10 year old boy and a 19 year old male (which we can assume are all different heights) all looking to see over the fence. .if we give all of them the same size box to stand on (which is equal), would they all be able to see over the fence???
Some times different ppl require different size “boxes” to make the playing field even and fair.
Very well said, Kimberly.
Wow another comment that brilliantly illustrates the author’s point over and over. Brava. ::slow clap::
All I can say is wow. What an awakenining. I am 60 and went back to school in 2008 to get my social work degree. By 2012 I had my masters. I am somewhat embarassed to say that until i went back to school I had never considered this thing called “white privalege. I was happy content stay at home mom, did not understand what it meant to be racist. just loving everyone. Then this feisty little professor who to this day I credit with teaching me more than anyone else said ” Why would I celebrate Columbus Day what did Columbus ever do for my people (African American) or the Native Americans. It wasn’t said rudely, angrily or contempulosly just matter of factly. My eyes were open instantly. I had always thought I like you you are always welcome, I couldn’t understand how or why many felt left out, just join in it will be okay. Until one day in the same class I sat in on a group discussion of Hispanics, blacks and a few whites. I heard this white participant state the same things I always thought. The opportunities are there for anyone who reaches out and works hard, I like you you are welcome in my home, my group, my community. When I heard the response of others in that group, my eyes were again open, what I believed to be true because that was how I felt wasn’t true, because my world was a white one, that I looked through with rose colored glasses. Now your simple statement has opened my eyes again and I thank you. I don’t know if this allows me to understand the violence and anger that accompanies this “not moving”. But then I have never been in a situation to be that angry. Keep telling it.
I sure hope you didn’t pay for that indoctrination they call a “masters”. Lol
No wonder the recent college graduates are ready to give up on the American Dream already and vote for a Socialist.
Very well written! Now if I can just find a way to get those privileged people to read it.
That’s the hard part. Maybe if you could somehow trick a Fox news anchor to read this from a teleprompter…
The quote about privilege, equality, and the sense of oppression is not directly from Paulo Freire’s work–as far as I can tell–but it is the same sentiment that permeates his work, especially _The Pedagogy of the Oppressed_. Freire’s theory in this book revolves around the dichotomy of the oppressor/oppressed and how true liberation humanizes both. Sample quote:
“…even when the contradiction is resolved authentically by a new situation established by the liberated laborers, the former oppressors do not feel liberated. On the contrary, they genuinely consider themselves to be oppressed. Conditioned by the experience of oppressing others, any situation other than their former seems to them like oppression. Formerly, they could eat, dress, wear shoes, be educated, travel, and hear Beethoven; while millions did not eat, had no clothes or shoes, neither studied nor traveled, much less listened to Beethoven. Any restriction on this way of life, in the name of the rights of the community, appears to the former oppressors as a profound violation of their individual rights–although they had no respect for the millions who suffered and died of hunger, pain, sorrow, and despair. For the oppressors, “human beings” refers only to themselves; other people are “things.” For the oppressors, there exists only one right: their right to live in peace, over against the right, not always even recognized, but simply conceded, of the oppressed to survival. And they make this concession only because the existence of the oppressed is necessary to their own existence.” (Freire 57)
To me, his theories are eye-opening. It’s very easy to accept our privilege without ever questioning it. Additionally, it is easy to be an oppressor without even realizing it simply because of the privilege into which we have been born.
Freire, Paulo. The Pedagogy of the Oppressed. New York: Continuum International Publishing Group, 2011. Print.
Freire should be required reading in school. Down with the banking model! Up with the problem-posing model!
Agreed!
You know, when I first read the title I actually thought about Affirmative Action. This is the official policy of favoring blacks over whites which has been firmly in place since before I was of working age. I am 45 years old now. In that regard, equality would actually be the absence of affirmative action, and therefore de facto racism.
I guess it’s all perception. Good for you, eventually punking out “Chuck”. I feel like Chuck is a metaphor for the #BLM movement, a bunch of bullies who won’t know what to do when people just stop getting out of their way…
Gross.
And what makes the BLM movement a bunch of bullies???
And what makes you think that people have been getting out of their way? The only person I remember who did that was Bernie Sanders.
You’re a 45 year old in desperate need to either read up on affirmative action policies more closely or attend a critical thinking class. You really think that affirmative action is inequality? Affirmative action does not privilege minorities carte blanche. It simulates equality by bestowing privileges in proportion to existing inequalities. Or at least trying to do so in the face of whites complaining about their lost privilege in the same vein that you are now… You’re really 45? Holy crap… how embarrassing.
Except that isn’t actually what affirmative action does. It holds that IF your org has more of one race than another AND you have two equally qualified candidates of two races THEN you should choose the one that is less represented in your organization.
In North Carolina, I know a few people who were admitted to historically black colleges on affirmative action scholarships.
The first place I saw the quote you used as the headline was here, under 3).
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godlessindixie/2015/06/26/upon-the-legalization-of-gay-marriage/
Yeah… It’s way older than that.
Feeling perplexed after reading this.
It’s an interesting story, the one about the restaurant. However, how it applies to the conservative movement is vaguely slapped on at the end. Something something about All Lives Matter and Gay Marriage blah blah, and people who disagree are just walking straight at the underprivileged people, expecting them to move.
The article may please people who already agree with the author by reinforcing an underlying negative image of the so-called ‘Privileged People.’ However, I see no section that crosses any bridges of understanding.
I think I see your problem here, and agree. Really thought provoking , but with no proposal of rectification or even suggested pathways toward such.
I’d just like to see everybody with Access All Areas passes to the best of education.
Just a thought 😶
A NYT Op-Ed that illustrates why the Chucks of the world support Donald Drumpf.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/opinion/campaign-stops/what-are-trump-fans-really-afraid-to-say.html?_r=0
I guess I have to say that there are under privileged Asians, Hispanics, Caucasians, Native Americans, and African Americans. I see a group of human beings whom are under privileged not a certain race. After all my travels all over the world, the gap in how people are treated is wide based on wealth and power not the color of their skin. Look at the groups in Nigeria and how they treat each other? That is not a white privilege issue, that is a power and wealth issue…..Look at North Korea…..that is not a white privilege issue, that is a power and wealth issue…..Look at the Middle East….that is not a white privilege issue…..that is power and wealth issue. I was not born in America but I live here and still travel all over the world exposed to various cultures and people…power and wealth rule the world, not the color of skin. Just my very humble opinion based on real experiences. Not meant to offend just a perspective.
Classism is definitely a thing, but it doesn’t negate the existence of racism. I lived in the United States in Louisiana for four years. Racism is there, along with classism. The relationship is complicated.
Thank you for the post. But who the F@&k are you calling a pushover!
I’ve been around a long time. I know that when a pendulum that has been held to one extreme it will absolutely swing to it’s other extreme. If left alone, in time it will eventually settle in the middle. However if it is even for a moment, held at it’s other extreme, the pendulum will swing at it’s extremes forever. Once a pendulum is let go, it must me allowed to settle on it’s own. As soon as it is pushed the process begins over again. It is THAT fragile.
Maybe I should elaborate. My job has put me in many many homes and I’ve seen many clocks. The clocks in the homes of the wisest people had pendulums that were still. They admired the clock for it’s beauty, not the time it used to keep.
It’s certainly an interesting article which I enjoyed reading. A few points:
Quote: “[There were also rumors that this guy had spent some time in jail]”
I love this assumption. Got to love the stereotyping here. People spend time in jail for all sorts of reasons, and a lot of the time they are not for violence, I have a friend who spent time in jail for drink driving (literally just over the limit) another one did 2 days for unpaid speeding fines (accumulated over a long time), yet she wouldn’t hurt a fly. There are thousands of people in jail right now for petty crimes that don’t involve violence.
—-
Quote: “[So it bothered me a little bit when–only a month after he started working there–he was already getting rotated into some of the good sections… Another mouth to feed meant less money for me… He was a good server though.]”
I’m kind of confused here though, you admit he’s a good worker, but then you state it bothered you that he got into the better sections, you also state that he has only been there for a month, almost like you are suggesting that because of his lack of time in the business that he should be discriminated against and not given better sections despite his apparent good work ethic? You also state that after not being their long you were “one of the servers the management favored… Which meant I got better shifts, better sections, and better money”.
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Quote: “[he ALWAYS expected YOU to be the one to move out of the way. He didn’t do this when walking toward girls…]”
The thing that strikes me as the most oddest, is that you never (I assume you didn’t at least) entered into any kind of dialogue/discussion/reasoning as to why he was doing this, you never asked why he seemed to “target” you, yet you seem to preach that education and dialogue are the best means to promote equality and eradicate prejudice/discrimination/racism in the world?
—-
Quote: “[But if he and another GUY (me especially)]”
So why was he predominately targeting you the most? Could it have been your antagonistic attitude, you’re smart remarks? “[He didn’t like my smart mouth]” In saying that though, it doesn’t give anyone the right to physically touch you like he was doing.
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Quote: “[I should mention that “Chuck” and I eventually became friends… Proving that people who see the world very differently can get along when they are open to change, and when they are willing to try to see the world though another person’s eyes. There is hope.]”
You don’t really elaborate here on why you and Chuck eventually did become friends? Do you assume that Chuck stopped bumping into you and the other guys because he respected your right to walk past and not have to move out of the way, or did he stop because management had spoken to him and threatened disciplinary action? Or did he simply befriend you because he got to know and like you?
My point being I have several friends that absolutely despise my views on the world and those very same friends I dislike a lot of their views on the world. Becoming friends with someone does not mean that you have the same views or are even open for change on their views.
—-
My final point, whether or not this is a true story or just something you made up to point out your analogy, it’s a poorly written example as to why so called “privileged” people feel “oppressed”. I do agree though the quote “When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” is fantastic and it would be great to find the origins of who wrote it.
A m a z i n g 😰
love your work !¡ ♡
Will share 😙
Thank you for writing this! It is all about awareness of self and a shift in consciousness. It is a practice. If we are shown only way to be in the world even when you sort of see the world there we don’t know what that life is like only what our little world feels like. To be confronted by other our own need to change just by being part of the world is shocking at first. Yet if we wish to live a happy peaceful life we need to continue growing and changing, getting out of our own way. Other people are not in our way, they are there to be reflections of who we are.
Thank you so much for this article. Beautifully explained.The comments here are fascinating, a great example of people who are privileged feeling oppressed because their privilege is being challenged. Bless you for replying and trying to point out flaws in their logic but I doubt very much they will ever change their minds!
Your post is arrogant. You’re angrier than you’re willing to admit.
Learn to be more gracious.
All lives matter.
Period.
On this, I will not be moved.
Also, same-sex “marriage” is not a marriage. It’s an abomination.
And ye shall know the truth. And the truth shall set you free.
John 8:32
When I read this the average Christian came to mind. You see when many Christians think of religious freedom they think if a Christian’s right to this freedom. If asked how this relates to religions they don’t approve of they change their tune.
I belong to a religion many either question it’s very existence or believe it should not exist. You see I am Wiccan. I am a cauldron stirring spell casting Witch. When talking to Christians the very instant I tell them I am a Witch they break of the conversation and walk away. It happened to me yesterday when talking to a neighbor. She said she did not want to talk to me and walked into her apartment.
Many people don’t see religious freedom for religions that are in their opinion is wrong. People bended by including Jewish people by speaking of Jewdaic Christian ethics. Recently included in the club are Muslims. When will we be inclusive enough so we include all people to believe as we believe without getting permission from the Christian church. Witches are persecuted in America and in some countries Witches are still burned
I have heard of Witches not allowed to buy or rent hones. Witches who either loose jobs or are not hired at all. I have heard of women loosing custody if babies because the declared Wicca as their religion apon entering maternity wards to give birth. They are declared unfit mothers. Inva divorce a witch would not be allowed custody. Wiccan businesses forced out of business because people don’t want that kind if businesses on their block.
Christians feel threatened when religious freedom is extended to religions they don’t agree with.