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Public Announcement (m.imgur.com)

Egon_1 が 投稿

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[–]7a11l409b1d3c65 49ポイント50ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like it.

Remember, the other side has been controlling, censoring and manipulating all the time. Why should others continue to bow down? Time to speak out.

Keep in mind that this is a privately owned site that has nothing to do with Classic, so he is free to say what he wants.

 

EDIT: Official Classic team already distanced themselves from that message - which is a good thing and very professional. The community though should be able to speak out and spread the word.

[–]officeworkeronfire 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Glad I understand the issue now. All I've see is blocksize this and blocksize that. Much more clear now. Go Classic!

[–]chernobyl169 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

So it has come to this. No more word games, no more subversion or power plays. It is declarative war between the corporate vultures of Blockstream and the users of Bitcoin in its present form, and all attempts at diplomacy have met failure.

It's about damn time.

The desires of the Bitcoin users have been made clear and public. The desires of big companies developing solutions for Bitcoin have made their desires and prerogatives clear. The opinion of every player is on the table, now.

The only thing left is for Blockstream to send out a last-ditch message to their beholden miners, begging them to support the crippled solution, all while doing everything within their power to silence opposition or popular opinion.

It's failed for them so far, but this is the most important information war of Bitcoin's era. Bitcoin cannot afford to lose.

[–]alotufo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with the message, but I have two suggestions:

  1. Instead of a popup modal window that must be closed, use a red alert at the top of the page with a link to the modal.
  2. Add a Chinese-translated version below the English text.

[–]Vibr8gKiwi 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice. It won't do any good, but nice.

[–]Egon_1[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (44子コメント)

The wording could be less loaded.

[–]cipher_gnome 29ポイント30ポイント  (28子コメント)

Why? Sounds bang on to me.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

Thank you. To me this is the most honest wording I could come up with.

[–]nanoakron 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Could you also add a link to the sub collecting evidence of the censorship, just in case people who see the message don't believe \r\bitcoin is actually being censored?

[–]Egon_1[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

Professional and objective critic is more impactful than just "bang". If you want to consider also Asian culture in regards to conflicts.

[–]Mbizzle135 7ポイント8ポイント  (17子コメント)

It is bang on for those of us who've been with Classic from the outset, collectively I think we're all a little tired of the argument and have boiled it down to nodecounters strong words here, but for those still on the fence it may prove a little too hard-lined and divisive. To those uneducated in this matter Core have done a fine job up until now, them having only just found out things aren't going great. Seeing our language of frustration may make it seem a little extreme and be a turn off when compared to Core's calm but disingenuous talk of consensus.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 14ポイント15ポイント  (16子コメント)

Let me hear the "professional" non-frustrated version of this announcement. I'm genuinely curious to hear how it would read. Thanks

[–]usrn 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess in the world of kneejerk political correctness, truth hurts when it's exposed without bullshiting.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sugar coating things was never my strong suit

[–]consensorship 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% win. I'm glad you said it.

[–]Mbizzle135 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Man, I have no idea. That is to say I'm happy with what's there and haven't given it much thought, I just think most people would think it's a case of he who shouts loudest usually has the most to hide when they've not seen anything from either side, or only Core's placating words with a censored opposition.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Well if nobody shouts then nobody is going to know about this because Core and /r/bitcoin and theymos have censored every major Bitcoin discussion forum there is.

This message probably wouldn't be necessary if the censorship wasn't so rampant.

[–]Mbizzle135 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Mate I'm behind you 100%, it's great you've kept the need to know information concise, and I've huge respect for your contributions here. But perhaps provide a link to a post with a more in depth exposé, with sources and the like for those who'd like to do their own extra reading. The link to r/BTC is a good start and sufficient in most cases, but people like to be spoon fed. Plenty of users here have done the digging and saved examples, it'd be a shame not to also back it up with cold, hard fact.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Thanks for the input on this. I considered how much information I wanted to spoon feed people upon entry to the site, and I decided to keep it as concise as possible. The link to r/btc allows them a tool to get more information should they desire.

If you have any specific links to excellent posts covering the subject in more depth, I will be happy to consider adding link text to the appropriate place in the pop-up for easy further reading.

[–]Mbizzle135 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've made a post or two in the past calling for a compilation of all useful information. Perhaps someone with your status would do better in attracting the necessary ammunition people have stored. I've been remarkably lazy at doing it myself as and when it arose.

Edit; I've just remembered about the Bilderberg Group who get together at that hotel in Europe and discuss the trends in the worldand where to dump their enormous load of wealth. The first sentence, "Bitcoin development has been bought out by a private company called "Blockstream"" is concise but lacks the pertinent information of how that company has been funded, how it raised that some $77 million and where it came from needs to be known.

[–]Egon_1[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

what's the traffic on your website? Visitors, organizations?

[–]hellobitcoinworld 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ordinary users mostly. But also organization ceo's

[–]driftingatwork 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep... essentially Ben Lawsky, but on the other end of the spectrum.

"Let's fabricate an issue so we can get paid to 'solve' it"

[–]satoshis_sockpuppet 36ポイント37ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is five minutes to midnight and people still want to appease.

It's over, the gloves are off. Blockstream is cancer, Adam "I inventend Bitcoin" Back and his gang need to vanish in the history of bitcoin or there will be no bitcoin.

[–]ferretinjapan 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

If anything, the general community has been tolerating their bullshit for far too long.

[–]silver_sean -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah! It's been at least 2 weeks since this all started!

[–]hellobitcoinworld 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

To me this is the most honest wording I could come up with. I'm open to different wordings. How do you think it should be written? I will read all suggestions. I may or may not use them.

[–]consensorship 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Needed to be said.

[–]usrn 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

Why do you think that it's loaded?

[–]pods1937 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You need to add something that explains the impact of switching to bitcoin classic. What happens to the BTC people already own in the original blockchain...

[–]bacondev 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just copying this announcement here for accessibility purposes.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Bitcoin development has been bought out by a private company called "Blockstream".

Blockstream is currently paying off many of the key Bitcoin "Core" software developers.

Blockstream has directed the crippling of Bitcoin in order to provide the solution, for their own future, financial gain.

These Blockstream-paid Bitcoin developers (for the Bitcoin "Core" software) are enforcing a limit on how much information can be transacted in Bitcoin. This is limiting the number of transactions to just 3 per second, approximately.

Blockstream is concurrently developing a "solution" to this problem, called the "Lightning Network". This "solution" is to be placed on top of the crippled Bitcoin network to allow it to scale. Blockstream will monetize the Lightning Network in the form of fees required to use their service.

Additionally, for the past 8 months, Blockstream has been utilizing censored discussion forums for their communication, thus preventing awareness of this issue from being widely known. All discussion mentioning this has been (and continues to be) deleted and banned.

In short, Blockstream has created a problem so they can provide the solution. And they are doing everything they can to keep it that way.

THE REAL SOLUTION

Bitcoin is able to scale on its own without being crippled by artificially imposed limitations such as those Blockstream has enforced. But these Blockstream developers are not allowing this very simple change to occur.

  1. Urge all miners and mining pool operators (not users) to run Bitcoin Classic.
  2. Go to Reddit.com/r/btc for un-censored discussion.

The only way for this private company, Blockstream, to be removed as the central authority over a crippled Bitcoin is for miners and pool operators (not users) to adopt a different implementation of Bitcoin, such as Bitcoin Classic. Having a diversity of implementations also creates a positive competition among entities that control the protocol. Failure of miners to adopt a different version will result in Blockstream's paid Bitcoin Core Developers to have unfettered control of the Bitcoin system for their own financial gain.

Remember, the only solution is for MINERS and POOLS to adopt non-"Core" software.

Please spread the word, and translate this message to the large Chinese Bitcoin mining community as well.

Sincerely,
NodeCounter.com

[–]D-Lux 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still waiting for Theymos to ban himself ...

[–]buddhamangler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think maybe you should mention all the possible motivations and then point out that it really doesn't matter. Blockstream could still have perfectly good intentions and truly believe this is the path we should take and it changes nothing of gravity of the situation. Blockstream has disproportionate influence over core and the vision for Bitcoin has been erased and rewritten. This rewriting of history needs to end.

[–]Spartan3123 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am hoping more business like coinbase and bitpay will start actually mining classic even if it results in a slight loss.. Because they should have some influence on the protocol as it will effect them too...

[–]aminok 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Conspiracy theory being falsely presented as fact. It makes 'our' side (those who want to switch from the Core implementation) look bad, and makes future reconciliation with some of the most important contributors in the Bitcoin tech community less likely.

If this is part of a 'divide and conquer', 'focus on Blockstream' strategy, then it's a good move.

Obligatory reminder of what Gavin strongly advised:

Stop with the personal attacks. Stop with the conspiracy theories. I don't know of any core developers who are evil or who have anything but the best kind of interests at heart. Everybody wants to see bitcoin succeed. And I have no doubt that the people I worked with for years as part of bitcoin core are pure of heart. We just have a disagreement about priorities, risks and benefits. It's really sad that there has been so much personal attacks on both sides -- and stop it! Don't do it. You're hurting bitcoin! It does nobody any good if you drive great developers away. That's just not productive, on either side.

at 54m 48s https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/lets-talk-bitcoin-282-bitcoin

[–]thouliha 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Gavin is a great guy, but he's so nice that he can't see that's he's being manipulated. We are where we are because people like adam took advantage of his willingness to collaborate.

[–]Richy_T 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gavin is playing the long game. Which may be for the best.

[–]Illesac 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Core people think Gavin is manipulated by Classic.

Classic people think Gavin is manipulated by Core.

I feel bad for Gavin.

[–]vbenes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly!

[–]Richy_T 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's already a push for a "Classic" conspiracy, to blame them for spamming the blockchain and being in league with Illuminati bankers over on /r/bitcoin so sauce for the goose and all that.

[–]SpiderImAlright 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those important contributors really aren't that important. Bitcoin would have been just fine without them. Their importance is severely overblown.

[–]flix2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is a mistake.

It is always wise to leave a door open for your opponent to retreat... or even better join you.

It is perfectly conceivable that BS devs might compromise and accept 2MB when they see the tide start to turn against them. It is also possible that some Core devs might want to contribute to Classic.

By turning this into an "us vs them" fight you make this much more difficult.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's already been a mistake to trust Blockstream in the first place. It looks pretty dire right now. In my opinion they burned their bridges, but anyone can join the side of "good" again, if they genuinely change their ways. But right now the Blockstream camp is not on the side of "good"

[–]consensorship 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is already a fight. They will not capitulate.

[–]aulnet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who wrote that? LOL, I've never read so much FUD in my life.

Author was probably paid by R3 or mike kearns.

[–]Toxhax -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is childish, paranoid, and annoying.

Language like this, and the annoying modal/popup format it's delivered with can do nothing but hurt the big-block camp.

[–]setsar -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feelings are not given, only taken. I doubt many people on the fence would be easily swayed by web design...

[–]throwaway36256 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Blockstream will monetize the Lightning Network in the form of fees required to use their service.

Uh, no.. Just no. First of all Blockstream is open-sourcing their code, and they are not the only one working on it.

Secondly, those that can monetize Lightning are those that lock fund. Meaning those party that hold a large amount of Bitcoin (Coinbase, Bitpay, exchanges) will be the one that benefits the most from charging fee(although they will probably be less liquid)

Edit: Fix lightning link

[–]Richy_T 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

First of all Blockstream is open-sourcing their code, and they are not the only one working on it.

Will they also be allowing other competing implementations to insert themselves into the default wallet and all the other independent wallets out there?

[–]throwaway36256 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes. In fact the second link that I gave you is an independent implementation made by the original guy who proposed Lightning(Poon-Dryja).

Here are some other implementation:

Scala implementation in the works here.

Java implementation in the works here. (I think this is the semi-decentralized version with client-server architecture instead of the original p2p)

Python implementation in the works here.

(Courtesy of /u/riplin)

In fact Greg Maxwell actually encourages competing implementation:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/45gpd9/the_lightning_network_in_the_old_west/czy2fs2

But even if we were-- Lightning isn't a global consensus protocol; which is both why it scales and why having competing versions of it isn't something that has high doom potential. It's possible to be very opposed to diversity in the consensus parts of the system and extremely supportive of it in the payments parts (especially of interworking implementations).

[–]tropser -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hopefully this does not turn against us...

[–]karlypants -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, this isn't a parody!?

[–]no_comment_acc1 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guys, this is all coming across as incredibly childish.

When is the last time you saw someone from Goldman Sachs posting stuff like this.

For bitcoin to be taken seriously, you need to start coming across like a professional bunch.

Regardless, the current situation is ridiculous.

[–]dappsWL -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Strive for diversity.

[–]UKcoin -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lmao, even the Classic devs know how pathetic and lame this message is. You people are so over the top you can't even get support from the very thing you're supporting. That in itself is a fail of epic proportions

[–]FrancisPouliot -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nodecounter.com has just gone full retard.