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ContractsScammed on localbitcoins.com. Have scammer's real name; any recourse? (CA, USA:WI, USA) (self.legaladvice)

tbrean が 投稿

On 3/5/16 I initiated a trade in response to an advertisement on Localbitcoins.com. The trade was to sell $3,200 worth of bitcoins via cash in the mail. The buyer had well over 100 confirmed trades with perfect feedback. He talked me into releasing the coins early, and due to his history I agreed. (This means he gets the bitcoins instantly instead of waiting for an escrow process. Obviously this was very foolish on my part.) He provided me with a tracking number. The tracking number never tracked, and the user was banned the next day. I have the user's full name as Localbitcoins has verified their identity, phone number, ip address, and email, although I only have access to his name. I understand localbitcoins would provide more information to police.

Three days later the tracking number he gave me showed action, but it was for a delivery to a different city.

Is it worth filing a police report? Is it worth pursuing the matter through through civil action? I reside in California, and he resides in Wisconsin.

Here is a copy of our discussion with names, address, and tracking redacted:

Communication (total 15 messages)

March 6, 2016, 11:13 a.m. ME: Hey, that tracking isn't working yet. Is everything okay?

March 5, 2016, 12:18 p.m. HIM : No prob, any time.

March 5, 2016, 12:17 p.m. ME: Ok, thank you.

March 5, 2016, 12:16 p.m. HIM : Tracking # will be EK#########US Check on it in a couple hours, they take an hour to update uo here.

March 5, 2016, 12:16 p.m. HIM : Tracking # will be EK#########US Check on it in a couple hours, they take an hour to update uo here.

March 5, 2016, 12:15 p.m. ME: its done.

March 5, 2016, 12:15 p.m. HIM : Ill need release before i get it ready.

March 5, 2016, 12:14 p.m. ME: awesome. thanks

March 5, 2016, 12:13 p.m. HIM : Ok, ill mark paid and get it ready. Will have a tracking # ready in 45 mins when i drop it off.

March 5, 2016, 12:12 p.m. ME: Ok, lets do it.

March 5, 2016, 12:12 p.m. HIM : And by "Lost" i really meant stolen by a USPS employee.

March 5, 2016, 12:11 p.m. HIM : Ive sent out 1,000+ packages in my entire lifetime. Stealth is prime. Ive had 4/1,000 deemed "Lost in Transit" and 2 were in CA, other 2 were in GA.

March 5, 2016, 12:07 p.m. ME: Hi! What is up with shipping to CA that requires the early release?

March 5, 2016, 12:05 p.m. HIM : No problem getting this out today, they close in 1 hour. $20 gets deducted from the trade amount for Priority Express Shipping. Finally, all packages with a CA or GA destination must be released before i drop the package off at the post office. Lmk if i should get it ready to go, or cancel. Peace.

March 5, 2016, 11:52 a.m. ME: (My address provided here)

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[–]swalsh411 47ポイント48ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most likely it was a hijacked account so who knows what you were dealing with.That he wanted to skip the escrow process is further evidence of this. You are probably never going to see those bitcoins again.

[–]grasshoppa1 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most likely it was a hijacked account so who knows what you were dealing with.That he wanted to skip the escrow process is further evidence of this.

Nah, it wasn't a hijacked account. Before being banned the guy was all over the forums defending himself. He was a well known seller, and this particular incident is being talked about on multiple forums, which is how I knew who OP was talking about. Either the guy decided to pull an exit scam, rip off OP personally, or the package actually got stolen.

[–]grasshoppa1 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

Your recourse is to sue him in small claims court. You can file a police report, but they may not give a shit about this, especially since it's a shady bitcoin trade.

Let me guess, this is B** S*** Bitcoins?

[–]tbrean[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Correct.

[–]grasshoppa1 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yea, I'm really hesitant to believe he scammed you. I think it's much more likely that someone stole the package. This is why shipping cash is a horrible, horrible idea.

[–]tbrean[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, this was definitely a very expensive lesson. The thing is, the package was never stolen. The tracking number he gave me didn't track when he said it would, but several days later that tracking showed it was turned in at his location and delivered successfully to a different city.

[–]-Macro- 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

How are you enjoying being your own bank?

Kinda odd how you want help from the evil statists now.

[–]PlutoniumPa 30ポイント31ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can sue him I guess?

Really though, you don't see the irony here? You decided to financially transact in ways specifically designed to elude intervention by governmental authorities, and now you want the government to intervene?

[–]bitawareaustralia 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, why don't you ask the free market to get your money back?

[–]-Macro- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/bitcoin has 100's of similar stories.

Bitcoiners...

[–]bitawareaustralia 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you go to the police you could find yourself in a heap of other trouble.

$3,200 worth of Bitcoin is the kind of amount where you need more than "the buyer's name". You probably assisted in a drug purchase, or money laundering.

[–]lucasjkr -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's FUD. There are no KYC or AML requirements imposed on anyone for $3k. LBC is a "legit" site, so unless the buyer was saying that the coins were for illegal purposes, no one could imply anything -it's not like this was a transaction on Silk Road that went awry.

The only issue I could see is if OP had gotten his coins frol an illegitimate source and was trying to convert to cash through LBC. But one would think if that was the case, they wouldn't be so dumb to think that involving the police, whose first question would probably be "but where did you get your coins from? Why didn't you just sell them on a licensed exchange?" In the best case (assuming they know anything at all about Bitcoin).

So assuming that OP got them from legitimate means, wasn't trying to cash out drug proceeds, and this sale was a one time thing (as opposed to operating an unlicensed MSB), then no issues.

[–]bitawareaustralia 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Depending on where he lives, $1000 could be the lower limit before he has to do some sort of KYC/AML. If those stolen Bitcoins ever came to be used in illegal activity and the OP was picked up for it, a court would probably find that "$3000-through-the-mail" is something that a "reasonable person" would find suspicious, and find the OP guilty of some sort of negligence leading to a crime.

Besides which, the Police would raise eyebrows at the story and at how shady it looks. Then they'll go outside to the OP's car and find his drug stash. Then the OP really will be facing court.

[–]lucasjkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah - again, if OP is a darknet drug dealer, then going to the police would not be an option. Since he's saying it is, I'm going to assume he's not one though.

And again, if he was regularly selling on LBC, then he could face repurcussions for being an unlicensed money transmitter potentially. But assuming a one-off deal, no one would go after him for KYC (since he's not conducting a business, just doing a one time private transaction), and AML would be completely disinterested in such a small amount. No one is supposed to report transactions that small.

$3000 through the mail shouldn't be a red-flag - all he has to do is say "look at the price i can get on local bitcoins versus an exchange", becuase there's always a decent premium on LBC. That he sent the Bitcoins before receiving anything... well, that's the issue, obviously. Not much recourse.

[–]NoThisIsActuallyGood 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

How come everybody that wants to be their own bank is dumb

[–]fucknozzle 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

First thing you need to do is check what your contract actually says, before you think about suing him.

There would usually be a clause or two covering dispute resolution, and jurisdiction. If you want to go after him in a civil claim, you'll need to look at where and how you do it. If it's not in the contract, it'll be more complicated (if not impossible).

It seems likely he has committed a criminal act though - you should inform the police, but there's no guarantee they'll do anything, and even if they do, it's not likely to get your money back.

Just bear in mind that criminal charges and civil claims are two different things, and the prospects of recovering your money are very much dependent on which one is used.

[–]-Macro- 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The free market will sort it out.

[–]ContextOfAbuse -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Paging Bitcoin Expert /u/Zapopa, please pick up the courtesy white courtesy phone!