全 76 件のコメント

[–]felinewhipped [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

We think, they don't (outside of just a few animals). Thought vs. instinct

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

why is thought relevant?

[–]sinestrosmight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think humans tend to think we have a sense of morality, while animals are incapable of thought complex enough to know right and wrong.

It's the same way that people don't expect children to be polite all the time because children don't know any better.

[–]fifty_u_hot [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Why is murder considered unethical when people kill eachother constantly?

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

false comparison

[–]fifty_u_hot [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

In what way?

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Murder undermines society. Killing or hurting animals does not.

[–]fifty_u_hot [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

An alien race of far superior intelligence and technology comes to earth to colonize. They murder billions of us, claiming that since we kill each other over petty things, they have the right to kill us as well.

Do you see the flaw in your logic?

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

That'd be ok. That's nature.

[–]fifty_u_hot [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You'd be just... "Ok" with the genocide of billions of people?

First of all, your preferences on the existence of humanity is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the rightness of the aliens(humans) actions. I think we can assume that most people would be NOT okay with nearly everyone dying.

Second of all, "natural" does not mean good. It's "natural" for my teeth to fall out, and it's "natural" for me not to be able to see three feet in front of me. Just as you mentioned, animals inflict pain on each other constantly. Just because this is natural, doesn't mean it's "good" or "neutral".

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Things kill other things. It's as natural as taking a shit. You can be ok with something or not, it doesn't change it. Nature still prevails.

No, nature does not imply good necessarily. We create good or bad arbitrarily. So we can decide that something is good or bad.

[–]fifty_u_hot [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You asked why animal abuse is considered unethical. Not why it's considered unnatural (which it isn't), not why it's considered rectifiable (which it isn't).

And no, most people don't select good and bad "arbitrarily". Most people don't just select their beliefs on morality randomly. You could suggest that individuals's emotions or reactions to things and events are subjective, but moral logic is usually based on the idea that we should try producing maximum good for all living things (including animals).

I can't really decide whether or not you don't understand the points I've laid out so far despite their clarity, or you just created this thread because you thought we'd all just take your position and let you establish your point. Either way, I've got better things to do than to convince you, but I'd like to suggest instead of trying to do this so you can convince yourself you don't need to change, you try to understand the opposition in the hopes of making yourself a better person.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I really can't make heads or tails of what you're saying. But hey, it's late. Let's just call it a night.

[–]logallama [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

Because humans (should) know better.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

why?

[–]logallama [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

Because inflicting pain unnecessarily, especially on something helpless, is a bad thing.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

why is bad though? that's my question

[–]lennon1230 [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

Because intentionally causing pain is wrong? It's a pretty simple moral concept. Is stabbing a baby any less bad than stabbing an adult because they aren't as smart as an adult? Of course not.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

So we've gotten to stabbing babies now? LOL I love how people can't explain their position without using ridiculous comparisons.

[–]impitus [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Why is stabbing babies bad? Animals hurt babies too. That's my question.

[–]lennon1230 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

It's not a ridiculous comparison, pain is pain. If an animal is biologically advanced enough to feel pain, it's pain. The only argument you can make for thinking its bad to cause humans pain and not animals is by making some argument about sentience/intelligence, thus the very apt comparison of harming a human baby (which many animals are smarter than) vs an adult.

It's pretty sad you can't see how bad your argument is and get smug whenever questioned in a way you can't answer.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I know right? It's so sad. All this smugness.

Pain is not pain. Pain varies according to an organism's neurological and emotional complexity. You wouldn't compare stepping on a worm to punching a pregnant woman in the stomach, right? Pain is not the same everywhere.

I'm sorry I come off as smug, but you're not taking my question seriously, so I have to laugh at your comments.

[–]lennon1230 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Talk about terrible comparisons, you compare a worm to a pregnant woman after I already used the qualification of being biologically advanced enough to feel pain...that pretty firmly disqualifies a worm.

If something can feel pain, it's wrong to cause them pain outside of necessity. Why this moral concept is so difficult for you, I haven't the foggiest idea. Seems like willful ignorance or low grade trolling.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Alright, substitute worm for puppy. Substitute pregnant lady for homeless rat child. Same thing still works.

I'm just asking questions here. I don't appreciate the accusations of ignorance or trolling. It's not nice or welcomed.

[–]BloonWars [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Is pain bad? Do you seek out pain? Do you wish others to inflict pain upon you? Does pain cause suffering? Is suffering bad? Is pain necessary? Sometimes. When we inflict unnecessary pain and suffering, most everyone will agree, that that is bad. Not good. Bad.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So many rhetorical questions? Suffering and pain is often necessary and unavoidable.

[–]agusewe [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Seems to me that people have different views on what "bad" is, it's all about perspective. EX) I grew up on a cattle farm and have been around that atmosphere all my early life. The past 4-5 years i have gotten away from it due to school, life, ect... Recently I went to a Professional Bull Riding event with my father and younger brother who still live on the farm. During the event I couldn't help but think how absolutely fucked it is that we breed these monster animals purely for sport. It is my opinion that sports are still around/popularized to make money from nothing. So these animals are being abused over and over again (for life) to make some douche bag money. It made me sick, but then (after a few beers) I thought about it from the other perspective - Bull riding is a tradition that doesn't involve direct abuse/hurt to the animal, it's just for fun "relax agusewe, youre not the idiot out there. Have another bud and shut up."

TL;DR It's about perspective, young grasshoppa

[–]NightErrant [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

We have....higher standards than animals. See also not pissing or fucking at random in public, not rolling around in rotting carcasses, not eating our own vomit, etc.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Those things are all related to public health. Not the same thing.

[–]NightErrant [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You probably have to be not a sociopath to understand.

[–]Nick096 [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

For the same reason you should not respond to violence with more violence, even if that would be faster and more efficient, it would ultimately lead into a vicious circle.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Not necessarily. You take a dog, you beat it, you kill it. End of the cycle?

[–]Nick096 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I was talking about the human violence. You take a human, you beat it and kill it their relatives will seek revenge. Things get even more complicated at state level

[–]JezzPanda [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

"Hatred does not cease by hatred; hatred ceases by love"

-Dhammapadda

I've never forgotten that GCSE RE quote...

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

"I have no idea what this quotation has to do with my question."

-sweaty betty

[–]JezzPanda [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I remember I got conception and contraception mixed around... I wrote:

"I believe that life begins at contraception."

I got a D.

[–]red-cloak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because non-human animals aren't moral agents; that is, they're not responsible for their actions in the same way humans are.

Now, there have been experiments done which show that some non-human animals, like monkeys, display a sense of justice and other exhibitions of morality, but they don't seem to possess the mental framework to be held accountable for their actions.

[–]Silgan [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because we say so. Same with anything else deemed "right" or "wrong".

Objectively, right or wrong don't exist. Humans just happen to be prone to creating those ideas in their minds. When enough of us collectively agree something is wrong it just kind of gets accepted and people who don't abide by the majority opinion are punished in some way (whether officially or just by ostracization).

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Exactly. So why should is it wrong to punch the thing that makes me hamburgers?

[–]Chonci [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

There's a big difference between abuse and hunting

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Animals toy with their prey all the time. Watch a cat bat a mouse around. They love hurting animals.

[–]BloonWars [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

They don't actually "love hurting animals". That's the difference. The inability to consciously know those things.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No they do. I mean, I asked them and they didn't say anything but they really seem to enjoy it

[–]mutha_scratcha [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because we have it good in the 1st world and have nothing else to ring our hands about.

[–]MagicalChina [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Animals don't have any concept of "animal abuse". Only humans do.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

So if we didn't learn the definition, it would be ok?

[–]MagicalChina [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm saying that if humans didn't exist, it wouldn't make a difference since humans are the ones who conceived of the concept known as animal abuse.

[–]BloonWars [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes. But we couldn't know that we could know. Prefrontal cortex for the win!

[–]Dawglester [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

We are the only species on Earth to have domesticated other animals. We are also the most intelligent species on Earth.

When other animals attack each other, it's out of natural instinct, or for survival.

When humans attack helpless animals, when it isn't done out of survival instinct, it's done out of pure cruelty.

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Animals attack animals needlessly all the time. They kill others without eating them. They toy with their prey.

[–]MaddingMumbaikar [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Animals inflicting pain on other animals is limited to individua lanimals , whereas animal abuse generally occurs as part of trends among the society leading to mass nullification of species, maybe.

[–]impitus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because animals hurt each other to survive, to eat or in self-defense. We also kill animals to eat them or to keep from being eaten. Animal abuse is knowingly harming animals when you don't need to harm them.

OP the pain you inflict should generally be kept to a tight minimum (please). Just because pain exists in the world doesn't make it a good thing.

[–]mmmnothing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because people feel bad about animal abuse. It is possible to control animal abuse, but much more difficult to control animals hurting each other. People don't want to feel bad, so they want to reduce things that make them sad, like animal abuse

[–]sinestrosmight [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm pretty sure it has to do with how people think we're above other animals and should know better than them.

It is logical that more complex and intelligent animals should uphold themselves to higher standards. Just like how you expect more politeness out of an adult than a child.

But I think this logic extends so far that people actually classify humans as completely different from other animals, to the point where a human killing is fundamentally different than an animal killing.

[–]Touchdown_Knicks [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Do us a solid, please permanently refrain from thinking.

[–]sinestrosmight [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is the worst possible response to a philosophical question

[–]sweaty_betty3[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You seem displeased with my post. I'm just asking a question.