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Help me out here "blooper" guys (self.TheBluePill)

IronMaiden7474 が 投稿

Ok, my first text post here.

I've only been here a few weeks. I didn't know anything about any of this {manosphere, red pill/blue pill, waves of feminism, SJWs, MGTOW, AF/BB, MRAs, etc., etc.} until after the Elliot Rodger incident in Isla Vista in May 2014. I. Was. Clueless.

The Sunday night after his killing spree I went online and found his 'manifesto' and read the whole thing - slowly. I ran into other articles on the 'net about it and they contained many links to much of the stuff that I mentioned above that I was so clueless about all of these years. The only thing I had really been up on over the years was that marriage and birth rates were dropping and divorce was pretty much holding steady at around 50%. All that other stuff - clueless.

So, I have a few questions, mainly, but not exclusively for the guys here....as in what the hell do you guys think is really going on out there? What set this Red Pill movement off - do you know or have any ideas?

Such as - is there some "masculinity crisis" going on out there?

What's up with these guys claiming they need to reclaim/reestablish their masculinity?

Who the hell "took it away" from them anyway?

What IS "masculinity" - how do men define it? Can it be defined? {I'm a female, so I honestly don't know.}

Hate to bring his sorry ass up, but for example, "Douche V" (as I call him) has a "neomasculinty" thing/movement he's trying to start/spread. Who is he to think he can define what makes a man a man? (aside from his continent sized ego)

Is it really feminism as they claim, {a fear of} women in general, or something much deeper?

[I get that there's more ER types out there; I get that there's mentally disturbed/unstable people out there of ALL kinds/races/genders/religions.]

Also - I just DON'T buy into this terper shit about men being either Alpha or Beta, and I certainly DON'T buy their shit that ALL women are sluts, always irresponsible, always emotional, etc. (or this 'AWALT' shit either.)

And what is their fascination with "Lift!"? NOTHING WRONG with keeping in shape (or any form of self-improvement!) - whatever works for you - but some seem to believe that "Lift bro" solves almost everything.

One of my guesses: ....they {TRP crowd} remind me of the Taliban - and a large part of what's up with them {the Taliban} is that they fear modernity; as in they can't seem to adapt, adjust, and keep up with the changing times/evolving society.

Another guess - there's a helluva lot more disturbed people out there than I care to acknowledge.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

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[–]Hurts_True Ω 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

masculinity crisis

kinda? they're half-realizing that society's expectations of men ("toxic masculinity") are harmful to them, but then doubling back into it in a way they think will be freeing

What's up with these guys claiming they need to reclaim/reestablish their masculinity?

they do, but not in the way they think. they think they've been softened and corrupted and all that shit by some evil feminist agenda, but it's the opposite; toxic masculinity either forces men into a macho stereotype most aren't comfortable with or leaves them behind.

Who the hell "took it away" from them anyway?

the patriarchy/kyriarchy employing toxic masculinity. can't be in charge of something if you don't put effort into it.

What IS "masculinity"

in the absence of society? there isn't such a thing. but in the context of our society, healthy masculinity would be "I'm a buff dude and that's cool. he's a trans dude and that's cool. he's a fat dude and that's cool."

Who is he to think he can define what makes a man a man?

probably narcissism and delusions of disenfranchisement

[–]kalechipsyes 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for introducing me to the term "kyriarchy".

[–]IronMaiden7474[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for replying!

"they're half-realizing that society's expectations of men ("toxic masculinity") are harmful to them, but then doubling back into it in a way they think will be freeing"

Yes! I DO see that ^ reading around the manosphere.

And just my guess, but some of the MGTOW crowd seem to want to sidestep all of it (what you stated above) by 'checking out'/leaving it all behind (while blaming it all on women). I think they're confused too - they proclaim to be "going their own way", but they won't GO. It's as if they want to be stopped. Like someone constantly talking suicide - it's a cry for help more often than not.

On the masculinity thing, I was thinking along the lines of what you stated....but I need to hear it from men as I'm coming from a female perspective.

[–]Etan_Vinal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who the hell "took it away" from them anyway?

No one can take away something that's completely intangible. They're probably just upset about being called out and criticized for their behavior, and even then I have to wonder how often they personally get criticized as opposed to being paranoid or taking Tumblr and individuals as voices of large groups of people.

Hate to bring his sorry ass up, but for example, "Douche V" (as I call him) has a "neomasculinty" thing/movement he's trying to start/spread. Who is he to think he can define what makes a man a man?

Probably trying to latch onto something to make money and/or get attention. I have no idea how serious he is about whatever bile he's spewing, but there's no question that he profited from his erotic fiction/date rape guides/PUA shit. It might also explain his odd attraction to white supremacists despite not being considered white by them.

What IS "masculinity" - how do men define it? Can it be defined?

I have no idea. People have different definitions of it - there are ones that are culturally dominant, but that doesn't necessarily make them truer than others.

Is it really feminism as they claim, {a fear of} women in general, or something much deeper?

It probably depends depending on the Terper, but even then it comes down to shades of shit. Some probably just see RP teachings as "techniques" to get laid without being utterly vitrolic misogynists, while there are others who I'm surprised are sexually attracted to women due to their utter hatred. Going further in the hatred tends to get you to MGTOW. But I think selfishness and a lack of empathy play a role in it too; "I was nice and that whore went with a complete asshole instead of fucking me", "women are stupid whores who don't see what a great guy I am", etc etc.

Also - I just DON'T buy into this terper shit about men being either Alpha or Beta, and I certainly DON'T buy their shit that ALL women are sluts, always irresponsible, always emotional, etc. (or this 'AWALT' shit either.)

I'd hope not. Some of them say AWALT is "only" a generalization, but as racists are often willing to point out the "good" members of a group and are still repugnant, I see people who say that as just as bad.

Hope this helped.

[–]adminbeastSECRET VAGENDA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's up with these guys claiming they need to reclaim/reestablish their masculinity? Who the hell "took it away" from them anyway?

Do you know what I mean by "Doofy Husband"?

He's a character from the media who is completely incapable at all forms of housework and self-care. He's loveable, in a goofy kind of way, but his wife has to do literally all the chores for him -- and she does so begrudgingly but lovingly, tilting her head and grinning indulgently at her sweet, doofy husband.

You must have seen him. Sitcoms, advertising, films, novels, he's all over the place.

And on the surface, from the dude's perspective, he's something approaching the ideal, right? Fulfilling relationship, his kids like him, he's got a nice house, his wife does all the housework -- and, hey, let's also acknowledge that he's usually something of a schlub while his wife is several notches hotter. He's got a pretty sweet life, our doofy husband does.

But he's also a pretty awful stereotype. Men are incompetent. Men are bad fathers and providers. Men cannot handle sophisticated tasks like pouring cereal into a bowl or pinning laundry to a clothesline or cooking a frozen pizza. Men are idiots who need women to take care of them, or else they'd probably literally kill themselves and maybe their entire families, too. Men, what children.

MRAs and Red Pillers recognize this. Blue Pillers and mainline feminists recognize this, too. We all agree that the Doofy Husband is a stereotype with some serious downsides, we all agree that the Doofy Husband is sexist, and we all agree that it's lazy.

So here's the disagreement.

Feminists think that the Doofy Husband is negative for men and women. Men are portrayed as incompetent, but women are also portrayed as ultracapable, as solicitous of domestic tasks, and as the only suitable mothers, housekeepers and nurturers: look at how incompetent men are at the tasks! Obviously, all of this stuff is women's work -- right?

On this account, the Doofy Husband has become a cultural touchstone because it's useful to advertisers. If you want to reach women, you need to be creative in doing so, because we've become much too sophisticated for, like, a Cape Cod housewife hanging out with her daughter and intoning rapturously about the cleansing delights of All-New Breezy-Fresh Massengil Now Available In The Super Saver Size (TM). You need something more modern, and something more current, and something which -- critically -- doesn't actually depict women as housewives and stay-at-home parents. (Because that's old-fashioned and sexist.)

So... enter the Doofy Husband. The Doofy Husband tries, bless his heart. He's a modern man. He doesn't expect his wife to do all the chores, but he's just so gosh-darned incompetent! Enter the spouse to clean up after him. And there you have it: an ad, targeted at women, for a "housewife" product (cleaning stuff, kitchen stuff, laundry detergent, appliances, etc.), which doesn't depict women as domestic drudges or happy housewives.

In summary, to a feminist, Doofy Husbands have two key traits:

  1. They're harmful to women by treating all domestic work as "women's work", and implying that women ought to do all of the housework: that women find the work easier, more pleasant, more natural, etc. and that men can't possibly lift a finger to help because they're all so incompetent and unsuited to the task.
  2. They're propagated by advertisers looking to sell products.

But to an MRA or a Red Piller, the opposite conclusions are true. Doofy husbands are:

  1. Harmful to men because they're emasculating. The doofy husband is something between feminist pornography and a gendered minstrel show, built around depicting men as foolish incompetents for the amusement of women.
  2. Propagated by feminists.

Yes, it's the feminists who portray men as unable to do laundry, and cook dinner, and change a diaper, and perform other elementary household functions without burning the house down.

It's the feminists who have the ear of every advertiser, sitcom scriptwriter and ad executive in the western world: that entire industry is driven by feminists.

Despite the fact that mainstream feminists have been actively campaigning since the 1950s that men should take on more of the domestic work -- that it ought to be "domestic work" instead of "women's work" -- and despite the fact that these ads reinforce a rather conservative and traditionalist view of man in relation to his wife ("No, no, don't bother cooking dinner or doing any chores or taking care of the kids: you just stay right there on the couch until I come by for your nightly blowjob."), these people blame feminists for this entire situation.

It's like they get halfway there, right?

They see the problem. They even understand half of it: yes, Doofy Husbands are absolutely emasculating. They recognize the issue.

But for want of empathy, and critical thinking, and background knowledge (in particular, anything written by a feminist is inherently suspect and doesn't count, so don't even bother reading or considering it), they never get to the point where they're prepared to acknowledge that women also have reasonable objections to these ads, and that feminists are potential allies in combatting these ads, and that the real problem here -- money, advertising, family norms, patriarchy, etc. -- is a bigger and higher-order problem than one schlub sitting on the couch while his wife Swiffers the floor.

Instead, they just wallow in their own pain, and their own resentment, and their own preconceived notions of women and feminism, completely divorced as they are from reality. The only thing they know is that they hurt, and they lash out accordingly.

Who took their masculinity?

Feminists, obviously.

How do they get it back?

Beat it out of feminists with a stick.

Who shot JR?

Kristen "Feminist" Shepard.

Who stole the cookie from the cookie jar?

Probably a feminist.

What should you do when you fart in an elevator?

Blame it on a feminist.

All they know is that they're in pain, and someone's going to pay for it -- and feminists always seem to look like a pretty good target.

[–]registrationscoflaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

its a reactionary movement, no different than gamergate or the tea party. privileged people see minorities making gains, threatening social structures and norms that advantage them, and freak the fuck out over it. in this case it manifests itself in a fear and hatred of women and feminism, but those are just the accidents. the substance is the same for any reactionary movement.

and there is no doubt this is a reactionary movement. look at the overlap with white nationalists, with neofeudalists, etc. there is a distrust of modernity (hatred of tattoos, focus on DECADENCE, rhetoric about our fallen present from a past state of grace).

lifting is a kernel of good advice, ie if you lift weights properly and for long enough you will get strong, look good, and feel good, but for trp it definitely has some masculine anxiety to it, like oh if you could only squat heavy your strength and power will be regained and feminism vanquished.