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[–]TuftoPadishah 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

What lovely comments you lot come up with.

[–]skadefryd 25ポイント26ポイント  (85子コメント)

Note: holds both the Sunni and Shia caliphate titles.

Paradox have been very loath to depict Muhammad in any form. IIRC, they even contacted one of the major mod makers (either WTWSMS or Lux Invicta) and politely requested that they not depict Muhammad or enable the player to play as him.

[–]weitnum 43ポイント44ポイント  (72子コメント)

afraid to offend the religion of peace

[–]skadefryd 29ポイント30ポイント  (66子コメント)

The prohibition on depictions of the prophet is something most Muslims take very seriously. You might compare it to, e.g., the ERE's aversion to icons during the Iconoclast periods.

[–]supershutze 14ポイント15ポイント  (64子コメント)

Yeah, but that was ~1000 years ago.

We've been to the fucking moon. We've cured diseases. We've developed method of sending information over enormous distances in an instant.

We're supposed to be better than that now.

[–]JahiriFrisian Buddhist Republic 20ポイント21ポイント  (13子コメント)

Why? And besides, who decides what is better?.

[–]TheLiberalThumb 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The people that are willing to kill people for it I guess

[–]ThaiengleClosest of Siam 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hello my bro.

[–]supershutze 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Why? Because of the progress we've made, both scientific and sociological.

Who decides? Those who've progressed. More importantly, those with power, which is those who've progressed.

[–]JahiriFrisian Buddhist Republic 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

So you're implying "we" (who?) somehow became "better" than, who? Muslims who don't want their prophet displayed?

Progress doesn't mean anything in this context. Social norms just evolved in a certain direction. And like evolution, there is no good or bad. It just happens.

[–]DarknotezAllyrian Empire -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

The most adaptable survive. In this context, the muslims are not adaptable and will die off just like every religion in the world. Stupidity dies off. Always.

Besides, I find it an affront to logic that the muslims hold in high esteem a rapist and a murderer.

[–]bruno_cp88Norse Overlords 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a matter of respect, for little gain.

Paradox is not a political entity, and they have nothing to gain by making such political and religious 'statement'.

[–]JahiriFrisian Buddhist Republic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Islam has been around for 1600 years. Religion in general has been around for 300000 years. I don't think it will ever die out. And if it does, it will be replaced by something similar.

For instance, other rigid ideas about what is right and wrong, good and evil.

[–]Jendic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stupidity dies off. Always.

Like rabbits in Australia, right?

[–]ShizzazzleFanboy 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

More importantly, those with power, which is those who've progressed.

...what?

[–]supershutze -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Those people who are the most advanced, those who have made the greatest technological and sociological advancement, have the most power.

[–]bruno_cp88Norse Overlords 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you have any power? Have you made any technological or sociological advancement? So, you accept that you cannot oppose any decision coming from those that have, even if it against your interests?

Or, do you include yourself in 'those people', and thus it's a matter of Eastern vs Western societies, and you claim one is inherently better?

[–]_tpyo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because of the progress we've made, both scientific and sociological.

Scientific progress is a thing, sociological progress though? I'm pretty sure that one just runs in cycles as opposed to actually getting anywhere.

[–]MentemMeumAmisi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

PARADOX FATWA!

[–]Cooliodex 6ポイント7ポイント  (26子コメント)

What? Not wanting someone to show an image of your prophet isn't a bad thing, or something you can be better than. As a semi-Christian, there are plenty of things I think are kinda sacrilegious. Is it so hard to understand that a religion doesn't want their prophet to be disrespected, and that it's totally reasonable for them to ask that of people who aren't Muslim.

[–]jursamajSudreyjar 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is that not depicting Mo is not a core part of Islam. Muslims themselves used to depict him occasionally, until somebody invented bits of the late hadiths to ban it, along with depiction of anybody. Which is really weird since some of the early hadith themselves mention portraits of Mo.

[–]supershutze 13ポイント14ポイント  (24子コメント)

Except that it's not reasonable. At all.

That's like arguing that we shouldn't eat pork, because it "disrespects muslims", or that women should wear a hijab, because to not do so would "disrespect muslims". It's absurd.

We have to stop respecting religions, because a religion is just an ideology, and like any idea, has no rights and deserves no inherent respect.

It's no different than asking someone to respect capitalism, or communism, or fascism.

We must be fearless in our criticism of religion. We must be unafraid to offend. We must scrutinize everything, regardless of whether or not it offends people or makes them uncomfortable.

Anything less is cowardice.

[–]Castor96Kralj of Croatia 4ポイント5ポイント  (22子コメント)

Not when half of the western countries in the world try to control and bomb the heart muslim countries for decades.

Our governments are major assholes themselves.

[–]supershutze 9ポイント10ポイント  (21子コメント)

Don't assume the Middle East is a shithole because of the west.

They've been killing each other for 1400 years.

The problems in the Middle East long predate western interference.

[–]Castor96Kralj of Croatia 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm specifically talking about muslim hate and intolerance directed towards christians/westerns today. They don't hate us because they killed each other in the middle ages, they don't like us today because our great governments liked to fuck em over numerous times in the last couple decades.

Of course it's not 100% our fault but most of the radicals today are there because our governments didn't want to stop bombing them for oil and fucking up their governments.

I think it's a much better idea for paradox to show a little bit of respect towards muslims with this than to go lol fuck you I can say whatever I want everytime. We can show the world that we normal citizens are not assholes but our retarded politicians and corporations are who're at fault.

[–]ricepipe[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

agreed

[–]IThrowPower -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

They hate us because we watch porn, our women wear revealing clothing, we're not religious, we let gays and women have complete equal rights, etc. etc. Political concerns are secondary honestly, to the radical jihadists it is a war against degenerate Western culture. The frequent bombings don't help though.

Edit: I'm all for paradox not depicting Mohammed though, it is rude and it's not a difficult accommodation. Why would they want to chase away potential customers over a non-playable character?

[–]cuntsfuckedhard 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Except it is the frequent bombings and historical toppling of governments/support to dictators that gave radical muslims the impetus to attack the West and gain popular support for mass demonstrations against them.

[–]IThrowPower 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Definitely true for al-queda, but not as much for ISIS. I'm not defending the idiots who thought messing about in the region was smart, just saying that jihadists care atleast as much about Western "degeneracy" as they do about failed interventionism. You don't see the Christian minorities in the ME or even people in Southeast Asia (we really screwed with Vietnam and Cambodia, the Phillipines, etc) organizing attacks on the West. The jihadists see Westerners as lustful, greedy, athiest pigs.

[–]Castor96Kralj of Croatia 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's what their propaganda says, and what most of their common footfolk may believe. But honestly, I think the top officials and the leader of ISIS (or whichever terror organization) are in it for the money, power and pleasure. I mean they rape and torture children, kill innocents in the name of god/allah. They don't really follow their beliefs, they just use it for propaganda and to attract new recruits.

That's what I personally think anyway. They could also really be the mad zealots they are depicted as, but in the end, I think it's the money they make with their caliphate that motivates them the most.

[–]IThrowPower 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Power can be a motivation as well. People enjoy being in power and controlling things.

[–]cuntsfuckedhard 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is probably one of the most generally ignorant statements that I've come across in this thread. It completely covers a lot of shit under the rug.

Don't assume the Middle East is a shithole because of the west.

So, you're saying that installing dictators and fucking over the people for 40-60 years depending on country is a-OK. That the chants of "death to America" were foreseen for over a millennia ago.

They've been killing each other for 1400 years.

The Shia-Sunni divide has nothing to do with the hatred many Muslims have for America.

The problems in the Middle East long predate western interference.

So, if there are pre-existing problems, new problems can't show up?

[–]EdwardTheVindictivePoland Can Into Slavic 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

They've been killing each other for 1400 years ? Just like Europe then, right ?

[–]supershutze 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Europe got better: They don't kill each other anymore.

The middle east on the other hand...

[–]EdwardTheVindictivePoland Can Into Slavic 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, if Western governments hadn't fucked them up for the last century maybe it wouldn't be the case

[–]supershutze 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blaming the west is a convenient way to avoid solving your problems.

The west may have had some influence, but it was a drop in the ocean compared to what was already there.

They have been fucking themselves up plenty without our interference.

[–]ThallassaRussia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you need to pay more attention to recent events... Or what do you call Ukraine?

[–]KapiTodTutorial Island Über Alles 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

It actually wasn't too bad under the Ottomans, no worse than Russia at the time really. The only really bad part was the Arabian interior since it was basically impossible to get in there without a shitload of camels. Still not too bad though, until the Saudi's decided to redefine Wahhabism.

Then the dynasties and dictators left by Britain and France in the wake in the Second World War weren't exactly the most forward thinking men. I mean the Allies had to invade Iraq AND Iran during that war because they looked likely to defect to the Axis.

And then there's the fact that Iran is an Islamic Republic now specifically because the CIA overthrew the democratically elected government, reinstated the Shah, who turned out to be such a dick that a bunch of asshole clerics were able to take over.

Most of the modern problems in that region date back to when we in the west started sticking our dicks in mystery holes. Now maybe if the Great War had been avoided the Arabs would have thrown off the Ottomans themselves, leaving Metropolitan northerners to fight with the southern tribal leaders over who got to be in charge, but that didn't happen.

[–]IThrowPower 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Crazy how much of our modern world is shaped by WW1. The Ottomans were kind of like a benevolent dictatorship, and that's basically what the Middle East needs before they transition to modernity.

[–]KapiTodTutorial Island Über Alles 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Honestly I think that a Central Powers victory would have been for the best.

[–]IThrowPower 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Britain doesn't join war > Germany + Austria quickly defeat France, Russia surrenders > No Russian Revolution, an entire generation of Europeans is saved, European wealth isn't destroyed, central banks never rise to power, etc. Or maybe another great war would have happened later, who knows.

[–]EastGuardianRoman Empire is best empire. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm unsure if this always applies, though.

[–]MrCreeperPhilIreland 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Afraid to get Charlie Hebdo'd. I would be too.

[–]ThaiengleClosest of Siam 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meanwhile there is female buddhist priestess

That dont cut her hair!

And also european buddhist monk dont cut their hair too

WTF PARADOX

UNREALISTIC NOT ACCURATE!

[–]supershutze 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

"peace"

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]jursamajSudreyjar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nobody really respects religious beliefs they don't hold. By not holding them, you're automatically saying you think its fiction, ergo the person who started them was either lying or crazy. That's not respectful.

    [–]supershutze -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

    I like how doesn't have any bad traits either.

    Way to go Paradox.

    [–]McRustles 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I feel like you're just looking for something to be mad about. As far as we know those traits are appropriate. Granted what we know of Muhammad comes from KoranHadith, but unless you can dig up some dirt on him you can't argue that he needs a bad trait.

    Maybe proud and lustful? that's a stretch though.

    [–]KapiTodTutorial Island Über Alles 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Wroth? He was a military leader, and apparently a very successful one. I get that he's meant to be "perfect" and all that but Wroth is one of those negative traits that actually isn't that bad.

    [–]supershutze 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, if you've read the quran(or even just some excerpts of what the faithful are supposed to do to infidels(not for the squeamish)), wroth and cruel seem no-brainers.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]KapiTodTutorial Island Über Alles 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      That sounds about right.

      [–]talltaleteller 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Granted what we know of Muhammad comes from Koran

      No it doesn't.

      It primarily comes from ahaadith.

      [–]IThrowPower 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      He should probably have wroth, and more soldier-type traits. Military education, with mystic trait.

      [–]Priyonसार्वभौम सम्राट चक्रवर्ती 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Lol what? You do know that history file characters (who are all dead) always get random traits and stats, right? Only certain characters have specifically defined traits.

      Or are you trolling?

      [–]super45That would be an Ecumenical Matter 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Certain characters have specifically defined traits. Muhammad is one of them.

      [–]weitnum 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      He needs lustful for sure

      [–]Priyonसार्वभौम सम्राट चक्रवर्ती 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Actually, depiction of Muhammad depends upon the location you are talking about. From what research I had done -

      In Arabia and Levant-Iraq region, depiction of any kind of human icon or idol, Muhammad or not, was forbidden. How much this was enforced is unknown, but the ban was there for sure.

      In Anatolia and Ottoman world, paintings of humans and other beings was free. Depiction of Muhammad or those two guys that led to Shia-Sunni split, however, was forbidden.

      In Persia, depiction of humans and non-human mythical beings is free but facial features of Muhammad was removed. The ban on idols and face depiction was there but Persians never really followed the rule at all.

      In India and eastern borders of Persia, the rich painting, sculpture and art tradition meant that there was no way anyone could put a stop to it. There has at least been one instance where Muhammad was fully depicted, a painting by some court artist centuries ago...but since then no one knows where that painting is today (possibly in a museum, or probably hidden away or destroyed). I saw a picture of that in Total War Center forums where a discussion thread was going on about Umayyad Caliphate and a great mod for Total War Attila.

      I don't know about SE Asian Islam and how much they tolerate depictions of Muhammad there.

      [–]ThaiengleClosest of Siam 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They feared that some radical may plot kill them.

      [–]Quality_ShitPoster69 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      TIL western people are better than muslims.

      Seriously, if your argument that, you've already proven it wrong.

      [–]DarknotezAllyrian Empire 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Western People have the will to have arguments over what is good/bad, over what can be fixed/repaired. If religion/atheism is useless or whichever is good or bad.

      Religious people however, have a tendency to stop listening to reason and merely do a circlejerk over things they agree on.

      [–]D1ngopwns 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yeah in When the World stop Making Sense I castrated and blinded him and let him go about writing some silly books with his 9-yo wife.

      If only I could somehow also turn him gay, pregnant and into a horse.

      [–]ThaiengleClosest of Siam 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Manure.

      [–]SEVENTYFIVEPERCENTOFPrincipality of Scandinavia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Now I want to make an erotic comic about this.