上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 293

[–]VintageFinds 72ポイント73ポイント  (37子コメント)

wow.

Hookers themselves are not welcome here.

[–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 62ポイント63ポイント  (21子コメント)

Of course, they don't care about prostitutes, in fact seem to demonstrate a distinctive complete lack of empathy for women. They gain vindictive pleasure from the misery of it. It's in effect a rape subreddit, some of the shit on there.

[–]VintageFinds 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

It really is. I just.... I'm just baffled and disgusted and want to burn everything. Like I know people like that exist, but it's difficult to actually read just how much these men hate sex workers and presumably all women.

[–]gliph 54ポイント55ポイント  (17子コメント)

It is 100% a rape sub. Manipulating women into having sex without a condom is a kind of rape. Taking the transaction of prostitution and then leveraging your power and being emotionally abusive so that the women genuinely cry and experience trauma from sex is rape.

I'm not against prostitution and I'm not against kink but this sub is not about either. It's about promotion of sexual abuse.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]gliph 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Not surprised that MRA and Hookertalk go hand in hand.

    [–]prolific13Citizens of the world 32ポイント33ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I guarantee the majority of those empathy devoid psychopaths post to the shithole that is /r/TheRedPill.

    [–]tonegenerator 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I know this has a certain type of reddit-y feel but I remember reading a HUGE sex tourism site 10+ years ago that was full of similarly exploitative and gruesome accounts from disgusting Western men. And every escort sex worker I have known has multiple stories about men like this. A lot of these men specifically want a woman they can consider worthless - it's not out of desperate need for affection or whatever the "social work" spin that often gets put on it suggests.

    [–]nothingnessandbeingMarxist-Existentialist-Žižekian 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also says this:

    Hookers who want to post here must be allies of the client cause.

    "allies of the client cause"...just...what

    [–]paulchoixqcEconomic revolt, not political revolt 20ポイント21ポイント  (12子コメント)

    This is a safe space for clients and a supportive community for us.

    what the actual fuck

    Y'know, we must remember folks, these are probably mostly edgy shitlord teenagers pretending they have enough money to pay for and abuse hookers. Still, these are basically rape culture artists

    [–]shadyladythrowaway 17ポイント18ポイント  (11子コメント)

    No, they aren't. This is actually a thing people do to sex workers. source: Im an escort

    [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It sucks that people think that just because someone is in a certain field they're worth less than someone else. It is the effects of capitalism, maybe remotely, but still because of it.

    I'm sorry you had to go through this kind of shit. I hope you ripped their dicks off.

    [–]paulchoixqcEconomic revolt, not political revolt -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    :( yeah I don't doubt it happens, I just like the slightly comforting thought that many of these assholes are mythomaniacs.

    [–]12hatchMalala 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Neither are empathy and decency apparently.

    [–]DianthusesFeminist Libertarian Marxist 149ポイント150ポイント  (38子コメント)

    Does anyone else feel that the more the girl hates it, the more they are turned on?

    Christ, that's fucking disgusting.

    Any tips on recording?

    Anyone videotape their sessions with hidden cameras?

    Stay classy, folks.

    Totally used a cheap -----

    Yep.

    Verbal abuse suggestions

    This is making me nauseous. How can people be so proud over being so utterly deplorable?

    [–]kgtxRed Flag 62ポイント63ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The sidebar is enough to induce vomit:

    This subreddit is for a very specific type of man: the type who has sex with prostitutes, but find that he enjoys it MORE if the girl is hating the experience, feeling ashamed, starts crying, and overall has a miserable time.

    [–]CountGrasshopperChristian socialist | DSA 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Fucking hell that's horrifying. I thought I'd see what all the commotion was about but I'm not sure if I can bring myself to go there.

    [–]Grigory_VakulinchukRadical Freedom! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah I have seen some pretty morbid shit on the web, but I can't click that. Goddamn.

    [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah it's pretty fucking vile.

    [–]cristalmightyLaika 84ポイント85ポイント  (12子コメント)

    How can people be so proud over being so utterly deplorable?

    I think honestly that's one of my biggest gripes with our current imperialist/racist/misogynist/ableist/etc society. People are proud about their awful actions because society tolerates the oppressors more than the oppressed.

    [–]Citrakayah 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I sometimes try to understand the thought processes of those involved, and it gives me a headache. They're not just ignorant, they know what they're doing is evil, and they're doing it anyway.

    Sometimes I think they're doing it specifically because it's evil.

    [–]Big_ThetaDebs 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I don't think they are ignorant. I think they just hate women, and they've internalized some issues and so now they get sexual gratification from abusing women. Cruelty is part of who they are.

    [–]amishius 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    society tolerates the oppressors more than the oppressed

    Ugh- I know it's true, but I don't want it to be true, you know?

    [–]bloody_rainThe first libertarians were socialists 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    society tolerates the oppressors more than the oppressed.

    Sometimes it's even worse than that going as far to blame the victim for the crime.

    [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

    400 subscribers gaaah that's way to many, i'm mad

    [–]basslay3r1Malcolm X 47ポイント48ポイント  (14子コメント)

    everyone in that sub needs to be immolated.

    [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 22ポイント23ポイント  (13子コメント)

    The way to achieve it is to keep reporting it. Or we could invade like locusts, downvoting everything to oblivion and leaving comments explaining how disgusting they are.

    [–]Communist_MuffinCDAP - Council Communist 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

    If the mods refuse to take action, I wouldn't be opposed to this.

    [–]paulchoixqcEconomic revolt, not political revolt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Count me in comrades!

    [–]tupendousFarm Implements 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    all but one of the mods have been banned from reddit

    [–]Communist_MuffinCDAP - Council Communist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fuck yeah! Thats amazing!

    [–]ArkhonistThe conquest of beard 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    How does on report a sub?

    [–]paulchoixqcEconomic revolt, not political revolt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    [–]JLake4Socialist 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Get someone to dox them? Their wives are probably interested in this fuckery.

    [–]Big_ThetaDebs 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Ha! Wives. These men don't have relationships, they take hostages.

    [–]JLake4Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Then hopefully having their names tied to those shameful remarks will help to set them to rights, or at least remind them that they're irredeemable pieces of shit that should keep their irredeemably shitty opinions to themselves.

    [–]specterofsandersismAnarchy -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Mariage is a hostage situation itself.

    [–]specterofsandersismAnarchy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Oh no but doxxing is EVUL! The Internet exists in an imaginary bubble detached from reality! I should be allowed to act without consequences!

    [–]JLake4Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fuck 'em, these people are evil. Fight fire with fire, amirite?

    [–]gregbrahe 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is basically an inactive sub. I wouldn't star [draw] attention to it, it is likely to have a Streisand effect.

    [–]xveganrox 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Probably the best solution, although it might be too late at this point.

    [–]deadalusparkDebored 132ポイント133ポイント  (38子コメント)

    Dude, this is pretty exploitative. I know the admins will shut down some "hate" subs. I mean, if this was reported to them, and they didn't do anything, it would almost be easier to make a stink about it in the reddit community.

    /r/socialism, its time for you to bust out your super power: self-organization for the protection of the weak.

    EDIT: I just messaged the admins of reddit. I strongly suggest every one else does as well.

    [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 57ポイント58ポイント  (15子コメント)

    According to /r/gulag where I first discovered the subreddit, they reported it to the admins and never received a response. If lots of people reported it it would carry more weight.

    [–]deadalusparkDebored 48ポイント49ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Absolutely. That's the hope. I mean, they're willing to take down a sub for making fun of fatties, but they won't take down a sub that is literally about physically abusing women who are already being exploited simply because of the job they do. Seems to me like this is much worse than a fat guy like me getting harassment for being unhealthy.

    I mean, it also has elements of The Fappening as videos/photos are being shared without the permission of the women. One of them even references a sub called /r/abuseporn2. I mean Christ what does it take?

    [–]crisader 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I kind of have to defend reddit here. They didn't take down fph for making fun of fat people, they did it because they harassed particular persons.

    There are a lot of subs that encourage illegal activity, or are disgusting and inhumane. It seems like they can do whatever they want as long as they don't name particular people to hate on. /r/hookertalk doesn't seem to do that, so chances that it will get deleted are very slim.

    [–]Anarcho-StalinistComprehensive list of quality political systems: ☭ 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Yeah I was the original person to report and I've still received no response whatsoever.

    [–]deadalusparkDebored 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Someone else here suggested spreading this to the goons, since they managed to get the /r/jailbait subs shut down. Are there other subs we could spread word about this in that could help raise a stink with the admins?

    I mean, on the other hand, they'll probably just make another sub and name it something more obscure anyway. But still, making them go through the trouble kind of kills it with such a small community.

    This is the only sub I am subbed to that discusses this sort of thing. I kind of stay away from the vast majority of reddit, really. So I don't know what communities would be receptive.

    [–]devilinmexico13 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    r/latestagecapitalism would probably be receptive, as world r/agitation

    I'm stuck on mobile, so someone else can take the sweet sweet karma for crossposting.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]Bishop_341-B 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      the goons are gonna fight the goons?

      [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      SRS, circlebroke, worstof, thebluepill, againstmensrights, gamerghazi, all the leftist subs, and probably all the subs affiliated with those subs.

      [–]UristLemonzحزب الاتحاد الديمقراطي‎ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I hear about this all the time they probably don't read the reports.

      [–]punkswcleankitchensRojava 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Funny how the reddit admins are always breathing down our necks at r/anarchism for anyone posting about illegal activity, but this kind of thing is fine. Last I checked blackmail and solicitation of a prostitute were both illegal. Gotta love selectively enforced policies!

      [–]Grigory_VakulinchukRadical Freedom! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Dude, this is pretty exploitative. I know the admins will shut down some "hate" subs. I mean, if this was reported to them, and they didn't do anything, it would almost be easier to make a stink about it in the reddit community. /r/socialism, its time for you to bust out your super power: self-organization for the protection of the weak. EDIT: I just messaged the admins of reddit. I strongly suggest every one else does as well.

      /r/anarchism goes against their ideology, this unfortunately does not.

      [–]-No-One'Cause baby, I'm an Anarchist, You're a spineless liberal. 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm worried at the trouble this post may cause our sub, since brigading breaks Reddiquette. Honestly, it's awesome to visit their shitty sub and see the current top posts calling them rapists, but I don't want this sub to be closed at this expense of shitty people and Reddit's stupid rules. Also, I want to notify the admins, but then we might be digging our own grave by doing so.

      [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I think that while it is gratifying to see the support in action, that the invasion I suggested before is perhaps not a good idea. I think that constant perseverance in pestering the admins would be much more successful.

      [–]-No-One'Cause baby, I'm an Anarchist, You're a spineless liberal. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yea, I totally agree. We have alternative means to expose that fucked up place. Possibly we can somehow bring subredditdrama into the fold to get more exposure, but we definitely should try to err on the side of caution towards getting ourselves in trouble. That might be difficult, since they're a tiny sub. Still, it might be prudent to edit the post to ask people not to avoid brigades and to notify the admins instead. Your choice though. Either way, thanks for bringing this to light.

      [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The admins have never done anything about it. Its pretty much confirmed that they do not have any interest in brigading at all. This whole site brigades itself all the time.

      [–]DJWalnutⒶnarchist 28ポイント29ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I know the admins will shut down some "hate" subs.

      when they become a PR problem. lots of hate subs, some well-known, survived the coontown ban

      [–]foxes708 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

      European is one that comes to mind

      [–]SevenvoltsSocial democrat 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They aren't explicitly about hate, even though their front page suggests otherwise. The moderators there know how to remain within the rules.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yeah I wonder why its not shut down yet, people are praising violence against muslims.

      [–]foxes708 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      because it is not a problem in the bigger picture

      the admins wont do a damn thing unless the whole of reddit sees them as what they truly are

      [–]Jeep-EepDemocratic Socialism, Technoskeptic Anti-Eugenicist. 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Try going to the Goons. Might be good to see if they can pull what they did about the Jailbait subs.

      [–]RJG1983Luxemburgist, Anarcho-Socialist 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      How does one go about reporting the entire sub to admins?

      [–]deadalusparkDebored 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I just messaged the admins directly, wrote an email addressing it. I didn't "report" it per se. I reported it by writing them a letter addressing the issue and directing them to the sub in question.

      I thought the "report" mechanism on reddit just reported things to the mods, so I opted to just email the admins.

      [–]punkswcleankitchensRojava 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I think that we should make a subreddit for sex workers to share tips and resources to protect their health and safety, including from law enforcement and sadist creeps like this. (this is what I initially imagined when I read "r/hookertalks")

      If Reddit's illegal activity policy doesn't include solicitation of a prostitute, blackmail and all this other sick shit, then surely such a subreddit wouldn't be a problem for them. Or the subreddit gets deleted and we get to reveal reddit's disgustingly misogynistic double standards and force them to close r/hookertalks as well.

      [–]hookerlyone 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      /r/sexworkers and /r/sexworkersonly are pretty good subs. I'm quite appalled that this exists.

      [–]anonybooActually, an Anarcho-Capitalist 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      No, /r/hookers isn't a good sub, it's overrun by the same sorts of clients that enable the psychos on /r/hookertalk.

      [–]hookerlyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I only mentioned it because /r/hookers is a slightly more positive space for clients and discusses more of the technical aspects than the degradation ones.

      You're right though, definitely not a 'good' sub. I'll remove it from the list.

      [–]bangtheacid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Do I need to be on a reg browser to report a whole sub?

      [–]bayarea415Power to the Stuggle 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Wtf... How do you report a subreddit to the admins? This is fucking awful...

      [–]fearofthesky 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Send a PM with links and a short description of your objection to /r/reddit.com

      [–]foreverajewLenin 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

      That is fucking vile.

      [–]12yearsaWageSlaveAnarchist 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Anyone ever out a hooker to her family? How did you do it?! Were there any adverse consequences for you?

      This is actually horrifying. These degenerate losers need to be fucking curbstomped.

      [–]casual_monolithin order to lose, all we have to do is nothing 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hedges has talked about the relation of capitalism, the commodification of desire and the obejctification of humans and human life through the pornography industry, but it can be applied to prostitution as well. This goes without saying that we should decriminalize sex work as soon as possible and make sure that the taxes and funds from the consumption of this 'product' go directly to funding programs which will ensure that women do not have to be objectified (turned into an object for the pleasure of others) in our society.

      I wish to live in a society that does not treat women this way: merely as objects to be ejaculated into or onto.

      A society's vision of equality is only as great as its weakest representation of equality — so it serves to say that capitalism engenders women and their role in our society in this way (as sexual objects, hyper-sexualized). It commodifies and destroys sexuality. Read Gail Dine's "Pornland".

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 38ポイント39ポイント  (118子コメント)

      This is why regulated prostitution needs to happen, to protect the women who perform sex work from monsters like these. Reported to the admins.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 11ポイント12ポイント  (99子コメント)

      Well the best thing would be if women didnt have to sell their bodies at all in order to earn money? I guess if one most have prostitution it might as well be regulated, but im disgusted at the thought of the state supporting prostitution, I actually rather support making it illigal, so much of the customer base feel the stigma and are scared off

      [–]arrozconplatanoTodler leftist 26ポイント27ポイント  (3子コメント)

      i actually rather support making it illigal, so much of the customer base feel the stigma and are scared off

      It is illegal now. Doesn't seem to be working well

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It has worked well in Norway, the numbers lowered and its the right side who wants to make a market of it. I'm torn about this by the way, I dont think there's any easy answers

      [–]sosern 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It's not illegal in Norway. It's legal to sell sex, but not to buy it.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And I think that's a rather good way to do it

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 34ポイント35ポイント  (44子コメント)

      Anyone who wishes to go into sex work has the right to do that, there is nothing immoral about sex or choosing to make money off of sex. It needs to be regulated so that all parties remain safe and healthy.

      I feel like you're probably a troll based off of your last sentence, but stupid knows no limits so on the off chance you're legit or someone has the same idea as you; you should know that making something illegal does not prevent anyone from doing it. Having sex, and paying for it should not be something that is punishable.

      Regulation can greatly reduce the number of individuals who are being human trafficked, the incidence of predators taking advantage of vulnerable people and the spread of STI's.

      • That part really tainted my whole comment, apologies.

      [–]gliph 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Their last sentence doesn't sound like a troll or even that stupid to me. It is a pretty widely-held belief especially in the US. I don't think it is correct (for the reasons you pointed out and others) but I think you are being overly insulting here.

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

      I apologise if it hurts your feelings, but it is truly a stupid thing to believe. Americans should know this especially with the Prohibition of the 20th century and the drug war.

      [–]gliph 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You are being unnecessarily mean here, now to me as well for no apparent reason. I hope your day gets better, comrade.

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      What part of my comment was mean to you?

      [–]gliph 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      "I apologise if it hurts your feelings"

      How was that in any way appropriate? You are instigating at that point. I AGREED with you and you chose to respond in a hostile way. Not cool.

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

      ... I actually meant that. I can understand if you misunderstood, tone exists entirely in the mind of the reader on the internet.

      [–]gliph 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's the equivalent of "u mad bro?", it serves no purpose but to escalate.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 1ポイント2ポイント  (33子コメント)

      Not a troll honestly. Almost offended that you think i'm trolling.

      Anyone who wishes to go into sex work has the right to do that

      Yes, but very few of todays prostitutes choose to do it. And yes we dont chose our job in capitalism, but selling sex is worse then being in a blue collar job imo. Its probably one of the most desperate example of exploited individuals in capitalism.

      It was made illigal in Norway and it worked well, thats what I base my opinion on. I'm aware that making things illigal doesnt solve everything, like drugs, but I think this is different. The market of prostitutes are based off economic inequality, there's a reason why poor people tend to be prostitutes.

      And no I wouldnt have the police arrest prostitutes, I would rather arrest the people who tried to take advantage these girls/men desperation.

      You raise good points though, and i'm not sure what I mean about this. But the idealist in me thinks that no one should be a prostitute, but I can support the more progressive approach where one make the best out of a bad situations, like regulating something as sketcy as sex sale to protect their rights. There will always be a big sex market in capitalism so there's that.

      Also i'm worried that if buying sex was legal and we had a regulative market for it, it would become more accepted, more girls would choose to do it, more people would buy it, the demand would raise etc. Could quickly become another tool to supress wokring class women, but maybe it already is?

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 4ポイント5ポイント  (29子コメント)

      I think my original comment comes off as more vitriolic then I had in mind, so i apologise. I won't remove that part so the original discussion is preserved however.

      The regulation of prostitution has worked out well in some parts, with safer conditions and lower transmissions of STIs which is why I believe we should move to regulation. We can't stop people from doing this, but we can ensure everyone is safe.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 1ポイント2ポイント  (28子コメント)

      We cant stop people from doing this, but we can ensure everyone is safe

      Think you're being pesimistic, do you think there would be a large portion of the population working in sex sale in a socialist society? I truly dont believe so. I agree that it will always happen in our society righ now, and as you say it migh as well be safe. Still i'm worried about the consequenses as I listed eariler, but the alternative (making it illigal) is really not good either since the prostitutes have no rights. Think its a real hard question, i'm glad to see a discussion about it though.

      And apology accepted by the way, tone can come off very wrong over the internet. I understand that my first post can come off as offensive with your belief on the subject.

      [–]kgtxRed Flag 3ポイント4ポイント  (27子コメント)

      Well I have to disagree, I do believe there will be people working in the sex industry in a socialist world. It's important to manage expectations, socialism won't remove professions such as that. as they say prostitution is the oldest profession in the world. I think a socialist society would promote the acceptance of the sex trade, and a more positive attitude towards men and women who are participating in the sex industry. With proper regulation the negatives of prostitution (as stated before: Human trafficking, predators targeting vulnerable people, transmission of diseases, rampant drug abuse) can be effectively eliminated. Morally I have no issue with people selling sex, it's the negative downsides that come with the necessity of doing it in the shadows. A good current example can be done with some Australian states which regulate the sex trade, and have greatly reduced (though not eliminated) the occurrence of these. With stronger regulation, it can get better.

      [–]_AzUr_Red Star 2ポイント3ポイント  (26子コメント)

      Under socialism, while I agree there will probably remain some practice of trading money/other things for sex, will there still be a real sex industry when one cannot profit from it? It seems to me that ideally, if sex transactions do exist under socialism, it will not be in the alienating and exploitative way they happen now (same goes for pornography). There is more to the sex trade than the potential misfortunes associated with it; the practice itself is exploitative and not simply as a result of being illegal. Not that socialism will magically solve all the problems - it will probably need to be combined with some kind of regulation - but regulation alone seems akin to regulation in other industries, a way of dealing with symptoms of capitalism (so as long as capitalism exists regulation is indeed a good thing).

      The moral problem with prostitution isn't that someone is selling sex, but that someone is being exploited (usually for another person's profit) and alienated from their own body. If it were an equal relationship, where people decided to make the transaction on their own initiative, and neither held economic, social or legal power over the other, that would not be immoral. This almost never happens in our current society however. Or if it does, we would just call it 'sex', not prostitution.

      [–]hookerlyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (25子コメント)

      Why do you pedestalise the human body? Why do you think I can’t be okay with not seeing my body as some sort of temple, and use it as I please? Does that necessarily mean I’ve been exploited? Do you think there is nothing positive about sex work? Don’t you think making someone feel better could make me happy too? Isn't that a tenet of socialism? Why do you think it’s only about the money just because it's sex work?

      [–]_AzUr_Red Star 3ポイント4ポイント  (24子コメント)

      I sincerely apologise for causing offense, but you misunderstood me. To call the sex industry exploitative is not to condemn the sex worker. That would be like condemning the whole proletariat for capitalism being exploitative.

      Why do you think I can’t be okay with not seeing my body as some sort of temple, and use it as I please?

      You think I'm attacking the people who choose to be sex workers (though certainly not all sex workers have the choice), but that is far from the case. Your choices are your own. To criticise the whole industry is not to question your choices as an individual.

      Does that necessarily mean I’ve been exploited?

      It isn't an insult to say somebody has been exploited. Exploitation is a simple fact of the capitalist system. Anybody who works for the profit of someone else has been exploited. We have probably all been exploited. I mean it not in the emotive sense.

      Don’t you think making someone feel better could make me happy too?

      I really must have sounded different from how I wanted to. Yes, of course, there is nothing wrong with your decisions. I don't think anybody here blames sex workers for problems with the industry in general, any more than one would blame factory workers for problems with the electronics industry.

      Why do you think it’s only about the money just because it's sex work?

      I really should be careful about what I say so as not to come off like this, because I definitely don't support this kind of brocialist economism, especially as a woman. The stigma against sex workers themselves is indeed something we need to fight, along with fighting injustices in the system.

      [–]Big_ThetaDebs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yes, but very few of todays prostitutes choose to do it.

      I don't believe that is true. Human trafficking is a huge issue, but there are, and have always been a large number of people who willingly enter sex work. I mean "willingly" in sense that any worker willing enters a field. Obviously, some do because they are desperate, economically, but I personally know four people who became sex workers, briefly, because the money was so good. Personally, I don't see a problem with that. I believe that every person should have the only say about happens to/with their own body. If I choose to perform sexual acts for money, that's my choice.

      Coercion/pimping/human-trafficking is a different monster though, and a lot of us, myself included, feel that human trafficking is exacerbated by the criminality. It is tantamount to slavery, which of course, I am not okay with.

      [–]Big_ThetaDebs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Unless we are going to depart from a capitalist system entirely, I agree. Just like drug dealing, we are never going stop prostitution so long as capital and private property exists. Criminalizing sex work only drives it into the shadows, dehumanizes the workers and makes them easy targets for exploitive monsters like the ones on that sub.

      [–]LearnedEnglishDogAnarcho-Syndicalist Misanthrope 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Sex workers are workers. They do hard work with their bodies, like manual labourers. They do hard work with their emotions, like nurses and child-care givers and service staff. They are our comrades and deserve trade unions at least and ideally total control of their labour. As we're presently operating under a capitalist system, we can for the moment hope to see sex work treated as legal labour, regulated for safety in a manner decided by the workers themselves, and strongly unionized.

      [–]SevenvoltsSocial democrat 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Some might get into it by choice. It's sadly a small minority, but those that want to do it as a job, should be able to do it imo.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I think its a tiny minority who does it by choice. There's a strong connection between poverty and prostitution for a reason, its a desperate solution to capitalism

      [–]LearnedEnglishDogAnarcho-Syndicalist Misanthrope 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There's a connection between poverty and wage labour for a reason as well. These workers are our sisters and brothers and they deserve our solidarity--with their work, their struggles, and their wishes. They do NOT deserve to have us deciding that we find their labour immoral and criminalizing them.

      [–]the_scientist5Marx > Marxist 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      So should we force them to be unemployed, b/c you feel that one occupation is worse than the other? Yes, it is a reaction to poverty, but now they're fed. Yes, we should continue to struggle against the conditions that cause the commodification of one's body, and we should struggle to increase the SOL of prostitutes (as with all workers), but making them selling their bodies illegally isn't going to do either of these things.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well I guess I kind of would, but I wouldnt punish the prostitutes. I'll rather punish the ones who buy it, therefor making a strong stigma and making the market much smaller making it less viable for the women to become prostitutes. And yes I think thats a viable option in capitalism, they would be forced to get a job or a education, and I get that it sounds cynical but I think its better then sex sale, also for the girls. I'm not conservative about sex, I just truly think that very few choose to work as prostitutes.

      Making it legal and have a regulated sex sale would make the market much bigger I imagine, I think alot of people would buy sex if it was just like ordering a pizza, much more so then now.

      [–]gliph 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Few truly "choose" their jobs in capitalism.

      [–]deadalusparkDebored 8ポイント9ポイント  (21子コメント)

      My take on it:

      Some women are going to do it, even if they're not desperate, because they know they can make a lot of money quickly doing it. Not a great decision, but it's the "worlds oldest profession," making illegal isn't going to stop it from happening, just stop women from pursuing legal help.

      Decriminalize being a prostitute. Make soliciting a prostitute illegal. Make the person who seeks one out to get the punishment. This way, if a woman does choose to do it, she won't be weighing her options of whether or not to call the cops and get nailed for prostitution in hopes to get help from having being raped by a client. She will be able to clearly say "I won't be arrested and run through the judicial system if I report this rape."

      My two cents on that issue. It will continue to happen. Making it illegal entirely won't stop it, but will continue allowing the current problems to thrive, which means women don't seek help because they don't want to admit to cops they are prostitutes. However, decriminalizing the act of selling sex, and only criminalizing those who actually seek it out and pay for it, you take the weight off the women (and trans-folk, and men, prostitution isn't specific to women) who do it, and give them opportunity to seek out help when they've actively been abused, instead of having to worry about judicial retribution for their career choice.

      [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

      This seems like a very good idea. Same reason I support the legalisation of drugs, not because I support taking drugs (well ones which are currently illegal), but because it means people can get the help they need. You have devised what I'd consider the optimum system.

      [–]deadalusparkDebored 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Right, I'm with you on that, and I really apply the same principle to it. Certain drugs, obviously, should be legal simply because they aren't insanely dangerous. (This doesn't mean they're inert, but they don't have as serious of side effects.) Marijuana and a variety of hallucinogens should be fully legalized, and while I am a lesser fan of alcohol and tobacco, because they are themselves more dangerous than pot/mushrooms/lsd, walking back legalization on those is probably nigh impossible. Coca leaves should be available, and cocaine should at least decriminalized. I would save stuff like heroin for decriminalization, but not full legalization just because I've personally seen lives destroyed by it. It really is a very, very good drug, and thus very easy to be like "fuck it, this feels good, who gives a shit about anything else." I feel like the obviously solution should be to not ruin peoples lives further by making it illegal, but for things that are so much more dangerous, we probably shouldn't allow mass production of it. I mean, and my ideas are still even not fully developed. I would think we would needs years of study on various drugs to truly decide the actual level of danger they present for individuals, and then categorize them in respect to that, with nothing illegal, but the far more dangerous ones definitely decriminalized while the act of producing them is still criminalized.

      [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      In countries where they have done full decriminalisations and moved the money from the war on drugs into rehabilitation programs the rate of drug abuse and new cases of HIV/AIDs has dropped enormously. It tackles the problem of substance abuse far better than the war on drugs ever did, and for so much less money. It's win/win. It even hits gangs really hard as their main product is now available at higher quality without the risk of getting shanked on a street corner.

      [–]s0cks_nz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Far more people overdose on pharmaceutical drugs than all illegal drugs combined. Heroin is fine, and pretty much no different to morphine. It has it's uses, or would do if it was still used medicinally as it used to be.

      It's really about education. Drugs are so taboo that pretty much no kid gets to learn about them other than through their peers, parents, or own investigations. Which means the quality of the information they receive is highly questionable.

      Sure, I wouldn't want to see heroin sold on the shelf of a supermarket, but under controlled sale it would be no worse than any other opiate.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Very good reply, migh have to think more about this.

      but do you imagine it would keep happening in a socialist society? There's just such a strong correlasion between poverty and prostitution, seems like the whole profesion is based off inequality, I think there would be extremly few prostitutes in a socialist society.

      [–]deadalusparkDebored 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's a tough question. There's definitely some girls who can manage to make a good deal of money off of it. There always have been. A woman can have a good education and options to pursue a "real" career but still choose such a life. Asia Carrera always comes to mind. She is intelligent and passionate and used her involvement in the industry as an opportunity to learn (I know she was in pornography, but as we all know, the only difference is the addition of a camera.). Of course, only the lucky who are imbued with the right traits and looks at the right time are able to really channel that and use capitalism to great success, but they are honestly few and far between. They definitely exist for the super wealthy, however. A rich man doesn't just want a beautiful young woman, he wants one who understands his trials and tribulations when he complains about something at work. He wants a woman who understands deep concepts like he does, and thus won't always just settle for some bimbo. Sure, I'm positive some rich men do prefer bimbos, but there's plenty who use prostitutes for emotional affection as well.

      Of course, you are right, the vast majority of women enter prostitution due to desperation and poverty, or even more often, coercion. I am unsure of how it would work in a socialist society. What would a worker collective of prostitutes look like? Considering it is (mostly) highly individualized work, where one woman can work alone (except those who want/need actual protection from assholes), how would women be able to organize into a collective at all, without there ending up being a similar hierarchy of pay based on looks/education. I mean, I suppose that also depends on what kind of socialist system you want to implement, one with relatively "flat" pay schemes, or one where people in a worker collective do "each according to his ability, each according to his needs." In this case, every woman basically owns her own "means of production" (lol), so its already kind of mutually shared? I don't know, it's a tough question to boil down.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah I have no idea as well, I just believe that very few would choose to work with prostitution in a socialist society, so whatever problem would rise would be alot smaller then the ones we see today.

      [–]SemiHollowCarrot/r/FULLCOMMUNISM is the real /r/socialism 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      but it's the "worlds oldest profession,"

      Pimping is the world's oldest profession. Meaning, exploitation.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (12子コメント)

      Decriminalize being a prostitute. Make soliciting a prostitute illegal.

      This is the correct way to do it.

      [–]geebr 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

      Except it doesn't really do much. Lots of countries have this and you still get a nasty black market sex industry. Besides, you don't know the motives of people who do solicit a prostitute. Sure, some of these people are sadistic arseholes like the people on that subreddit, but I presume there are also people who do it to have some intimacy in their lives, and/or simply struggle enormously with finding partners (e.g. through poor social skills). I don't see how putting those people in jail, or publicly humiliating them is going to make our society better. Especially so given that these people tend to already be on the fringes of society.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

      No no no, you don't actively go after the people who hire prostitutes. You don't do stings or whatever. You just give prostitutes legal protection if they decide to speak out against abusive customer. And you'd have to regulate the industry pretty harshly to prevent human trafficking.

      [–]geebr 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

      You should maybe reread what you quoted and agreed on in your previous post then.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      If you make something illegal then you can convict someone of criminal charges for it, but you don't have to. Kind of like how lots of police departments don't try to bust anyone just for smoking weed anymore. It's a way to ensure that there is a way to bring someone if they get a complaint, but allow the industry to keep existing.

      [–]totallynotacontraLibertarian Socialist 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You are still assuming a benevolent bourgeois state that has any interest in protecting workers. In practice the policies you're advocating are anti-worker moralism. You should look up what sex workers actually wish and support those policies if you actually care about advancing their cause

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      You are still assuming a benevolent bourgeois state that has any interest in protecting workers.

      Actually I'm assuming a worker state. I don't expect anything to improve at all in a bourgeois state.

      [–]xveganrox 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      You just give prostitutes legal protection if they decide to speak out against abusive customer.

      I don't think this is realistic. Considering the stigma that already exists against victims of sexual violence, I have very little faith that you could offer sex workers effective legal protection just through policy.

      And you'd have to regulate the industry pretty harshly to prevent human trafficking.

      The only way I see regulating the industry actually working in a way that prevents human trafficking and sexual abuse is through sex work only being legal in state-run brothels.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Maybe. Really there's no foolproof 100% way to fix prostitution besides getting rid of the profit motive altogether.

      [–]xveganrox -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      That would do the job.

      [–]hookerlyone 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

      Why do you say that? It’s the constructed idea that sex is something sacred and precious, that having sex with many people takes something away from you, that makes people look down upon sex work. There is nothing inherently wrong with it. And this is coming from a sex worker. Do I love it? Nah, I’d rather not do it (just like I’d rather not do any work, at all) but I’d rather do it than certain other mainstream, more ‘respectable’ jobs as well.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

      No its nothing like that, i'm not conservative about sex, but I still think the conditions and reasons why many end up in prostitution is shady as hell, and I wouldnt have the state enforce those tendencies. I think the profesion suppress working class women and forces them to serve men in one of the most brutal ways imaginable. There's no freedom in having to sell their own body in order to provde for themself. I would probably be fine with sex sale if it were a choice, much like your case I suppose, but I strongly dislike that many women are forced to do it. And I think its worse then a blue collar work. Sex doesnt have to be love, but people should atleast have the option to say no, or choose who to do it with. And I hope I dont offend you, i'm very open to the idea that I might be very wrong.

      [–]hookerlyone 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Okay, let's not talk about those who are exploited as that's a different case. That's women who are forced into sex work, being abducted and forced to do any kind of work is bad. It doesn't need any more justification. Lets take sex workers like me who have made this 'choice' but since it's in a capitalist economy it is exploitative.

      Serve men in one of the most brutal ways imaginable

      Why is it brutal? It's just sex. If I was a punching bag for a man, that'd be brutal. Sex is not brutal. Saying it is, is dangerous.

      Its worse than blue collar work

      Why? Aren't both being exploited? Aren't there physical hazards in both? What makes sex work that much worse, that much more pitiable?

      People should at least have the option to say no

      Except in a legal, regulated environment this is true. I was allowed to say no to clients. Independent escorts can pick and choose as well. I had sex, consensually, with many men I was not attracted to but I don't think it was exploitative. It was just a job. If I decided I didn't want to deal with anyone I didn't like, how could I work any where?! Even in a socialist economy, I'm sure I would encounter people I didn't like and didn't want to work with, but I still would because it's my job, right? Why is it different when it's sex?

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

      I didnt mean the girls who are abducted, i'm thinking about the stereotype prostitute that throw herself at you at the street. Seems like you're in a more delicate position then that, but still that's how most prostitutes work right? Mainly asking the men if they want sex?

      Why is it brutal? It's just sex

      Selling ones body to gain profit is for many considered rock bottom, I admire that you're so progressive about this, but I think many have other values then you. And not only the sex workers values matter here, the majority who defines norms as well. USA for example is a much more consrvative and religious country then Norway, I imagine having a past as a sex worker burns many valuable bridges.

      Why? Aren't both being exploited?

      Well yes, its a basic limitation on our freedom that we're forced into different kinds of labour. Still there's a difference between jobs, the level of intimacy in prostitution is much higher then my boring ass job on 7-Eleven. And people would handle and react to that differently, no one (very few atleast) will judge me for having a job at 7-Eleven because its much more accepted then selling sex. In reality its a big difference, and I think its based off inimacy and conservative norms and values. And by the way I dont support this I just point out thats how it is, therefor in reality a job at some shop is not equal to prostitution, simply because prostitution is so much more frowned upon and will have much more consequenses for the individual in the future.

      It was just a job. If I decided I didnt want to deal with anyone I didnt like, how could I work any where?!

      Working on a group project with some douche is much less physical intimate then having sex and therefor for most people way more tolerable. I think that's the main difference here, the level of intimacy and the value it has.

      I'm sorry it feels like i'm trying to convince you to feel bad about your work, that's not the point at all. I just think you belong to a tiny minority who do this job by choice. And yes many do jobs they dont want to in capitalism, I've had plenty of shit jobs, but none which are nearly as stigmitazing as prostitution.

      [–]hookerlyone 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      All that you've said is exactly the reason why you should not focus on the 'sex' part of sex work when you're talking about supporting them.

      I admit that I am privileged by virtue of my education and circumstances to not feel bad about myself because I did sex work. But I also believe that no woman should feel like she is inferior because her job involved sex, and constantly bringing sex into the conversation does that. I can say that because I have talked to sex workers from extremely conservative backgrounds (from my home country) as well as privileged ones like myself. The dominant notion that the more sex you have, the more it ruins you, that it should necessarily affect how you experience intimacy, which has been naturalised for most of us, should be done away with. Instead, the real problems should be given the focus: abuse, abduction, forceful labour and so on.

      I don't think we should simply accept the fact that this is how it is in society, and work our way around it since that empowers the abusers. That's definitely not what socialism is about.

      [–]hookerlyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      However, I understand what you're saying and you bring up real issues. I only say that they are as important to deal with, as opposed to claiming that women just shouldn't do sex work.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Well they shoudnt do sex work because they never should have ended up in that situation in the first place. I have a hard time supporting politics that makes it more legit to end up in such a desperate situation. Is it better to have control of the market since there always will be people selling sex in capitalism? Perhaps, but the last thing you wrote in your first reply was very good:

      I don't think we should simply accept the fact that this is how it is in society, and work our way around it since that empowers the abusers. That's definitely not what socialism is about.

      This is pretty much where i'm at, I have a hard time accepting how many women are forced to sell their bodies. And if a bieffect of making prostitution legal, would lead to more women starting and more men buying, it would be a disaster.

      [–]hookerlyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Well they shoudnt do sex work because they never should have ended up in that situation in the first place.

      I have mentioned this before, but I do not think it is impossible that people enjoy the idea of providing sexual services in itself, without the expectation of monetary compensation. I gave the example of women on /r/gonewild who post pictures of themselves for free, the same act (on /r/sexsells) would be considered sex work when monetised. I think getting rid of the bourgeois morality of simultaneously pedestalising and demonising sex will greatly change the way people view sex.

      I agree that the sex industry as it is now is for the most part, exploitative, but that is simply by virtue of it being an industry under capitalism.

      I have a hard time accepting how many women are forced to sell their bodies. And if a bieffect of making prostitution legal, would lead to more women starting and more men buying, it would be a disaster.

      I have a hard time accepting how many people are forced to sell their bodies, whether it is for sex, whether it is for physical labour or whether it is even for their mental efforts. The capitalist system exists and the effect of legalising prostitution at the very least, ensures more safety for them. It won't lead to more people buying and more people selling, that already happens anyway. This has been my experience (as someone who has seen sex work in two vastly different places of the world).

      You are attacking the symptom and not the cause by suggesting that prostitution should be illegal.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      but I do not think it is impossible that people enjoy the idea of provising sexual services in itself

      I agree, but I think it would happen very rarely, especially paid sex, nude pics for approval and likes would still be a thing I imagine.

      I'm aware that its just a part of the big problem which is capitalism. Still I try to make a point about how much more urgent it is to help out sex workers because they get some serious stigma for their work, much more so then other groups forced into labour and because it mainly affects poor women and therefor indirectly works as a tool of oppresion.

      The capitalist system exists and the effect of legalising prostitution at the very least, ensures safety for them. It wont lead to more people buying and more people selling, that already happens anyway. This has been my experience (as someone who has seen sex work in two vastly different places of the world).

      Yeah i'm just worried and I do disagree with you on this, if sex would be as accepted as lets say, buying take away pizza, dont you think more people would use those services? And if more people did that, the demand would raise, while prostitutes would get better paid, it would also raise demand for more prostitutes, and making it more viable could further make the differences bigger?

      But I obviously have much less insight on the subject then you, as I said eariler i'm open to the idea that I might be wrong. Anyway I actually want to thank you for your replies, this is probably the most interesting talk i've had on this site, and you bring a very valuable perpective into this discussion, I really appriciate it and I have learnt alot :)

      [–]TheOlMoSocialist Youth 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Can I just ask, what party are you a member of? SV or Rødt?

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

      SV :)

      [–]TheOlMoSocialist Youth 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Kult, jeg og! Hvor holder du til?

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Trondheim, enn du?

      [–]TheOlMoSocialist Youth 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Er fra Trondheim, men studerer i Kristiansand for tida.

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Haha, så kult! Artig å treffe andre SV-ere her. Har du vært med i Trondheim SV tidligere? Er akkurat meldt inn selv

      [–]TheOlMoSocialist Youth 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Nei, meldte meg inn i SU rundt september ifjor, SV litt seinere. Sitter i fylkesstyret til Vest-Agder SU nå, men har vært med i et par måneder. :)

      [–]SmienNorwegian Socialist Party 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Kult, bra du er tidlig ute og engajserer deg i politikk, skulle ønske jeg gjorde det tidligere! Regner med du er yngre enn meg siden du er med i SU, er 22.

      [–]tallclouds 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I've been lurking on here for a bit and this is my first time posting on this sub, but I just wanted to mention that the idea that these women are selling their bodies contributes somewhat to the mindset the men in that sub have. You make it sound as if you're exchanging money to use a person however you want, and though that may not be your intent with the words chosen, it's a common misconception.

      A stripper is selling a performance, a prostitute is selling a service. If you hire someone to give you a massage or model for you, you do not own that person - or the right to their body - any more than you do when you hire a sexworker. The idea that these women have no standards, will do whatever you want because you're paying them, are exchanging full control of their body for money, etc, contributes to a lot of abuse they receive from clients.

      And I get that I sound like a bit of an idealist, obviously there are situations where these women are desperate enough for money or unable to stand up against clients. That's why they need better protection and we need to work at changing the idea that someone has the right to do whatever they want just because they bought a service from them. I don't know how much it would help to tighten up the laws surrounding prostitution, but I think harsher penalties for johns would work a bit better than punishing the workers - after all, this industry only exists because there's a market for it.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist -1ポイント0ポイント  (17子コメント)

      Honestly almost anyone who would pay for sex is an asshole.

      [–]Dennis-MooreMake it So-cialism, number one 9ポイント10ポイント  (16子コメント)

      Honestly I think sex workers would by and large strongly disagree with you.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

      I've never met one. But something I do know is that the majority of sex workers have absolutely 0 desire to be in their situation.

      [–]totallynotacontraLibertarian Socialist 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Then read what they have to say instead of arrogantly assuming you know best.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I've read a few testimonies. Never a positive one.

      [–]Dennis-MooreMake it So-cialism, number one 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

      You don't believe this for no reason- its certainly the dominant narrative- but trafficking is much more rare than people are led to believe. If you mean they would rather be doing something else, well, they probably would if they thought they could make a similar amount of money, and often they would certainly not. There are coercive, addiction based, and survival situations, which absolutely should be treated as seriously and gravely as they deserve, but if you've never met one, you don't really know anything at all.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

      You don't believe this for no reason- its certainly the dominant narrative- but trafficking is much more rare than people are led to believe.

      It's something in the billions of dollars as an industry? How big is the legitimate side of prostitution?

      but if you've never met one, you don't really know anything at all.

      I've also never met a methhead, but I know that they're probably not on the up & up.

      [–]Dennis-MooreMake it So-cialism, number one 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

      How big? Fucking enourmous lmao.

      sex workers as a group can usefully be compared to methheads

      Ill give you the benefit of the doubt but you really fucking need to stop talking about this rn.

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

      How big? Fucking enourmous lmao.

      Gotta have numbers to back that up. Sex trafficking is in the US$32 Bn range according to the UN

      As for the methhead comparison, I'm saying you can accurately say something about a person without knowing a whole lot about them. Without any other information, I'd assume a methhead is a lowlife scumbag and probably be right. Similarly, without knowing anything else I'd assume a prostitute doesn't enjoy their job (and is probably abused in some way) and probably be right.

      [–]Dennis-MooreMake it So-cialism, number one 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Jesus Christ. You're coming on a socialist forum and calling drug addicts lowlife scumbags and then extending your cartoonish skills of blanket statements to an industry as massive as sex work?

      I know what you're saying. You've said it twice now and restating your point doesn't make it any less unfounded. And I'm the one who needs to provide sources. Give me a break

      [–]king_radicalLibertarian Socialist 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Well, I know that my uncle is both an alcoholic and a former(?) crack addict and he's a total scumbag. So yes, it does have some founding.

      [–]Orphan_ScriptAngela Davis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I hope you never actually meet a drug user or a sex worker because you sound like an insufferable and condescending prick.

      [–]LearnedEnglishDogAnarcho-Syndicalist Misanthrope 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Since you haven't had the experience of speaking with even one, let alone many sex workers, I will tell you from my experience of knowing sex-work-advocacy organizers that (a) many people enter sex work by choice, in much the same way that other people choose to work. They have to work and they choose the form of labour that pays the best for them. And (b) criminalization does absolutely nothing to create a safe working environment, foster trade unions for sex workers, and create a system of sex work determined by the workers themselves.

      Your comparison to drug addicts (many of whom, unlike your uncle, are far from being scumbags; many of whom are suffering from the after-effects of traumatic experiences in early childhood) indicates the extent to which your position on this matter is driven by moral panic rather than comradeship and compassion for your fellow worker.

      [–]SolidBluesRead Marx, not the Marxists 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I know this seems out of place for /r/socialism

      This is not out of place at all.

      [–]prolific13Citizens of the world 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

      [–]facelessplebe 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I wish I could agree with you, I really do, but Jesus.

      I feel fucking ill.

      [–]prolific13Citizens of the world 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Cowards. These men are vile cowards who are desperate for any power they can find. I pity their existence.

      [–]AprilMariagood old fasioned dirty commie 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You should cross post it to the blue pill and get them to report it too

      [–]AnonSocialistEinstein 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

      This is the first time I will ever admit this: See thing has me on the verge of tears, both of anger and of shame, that I am the same species as these people and we as a species aren't better than this.

      [–]manboy10 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I find it very interesting this is a sub that is totally acceptable, but other subs that are mild in comparison are removed.

      [–]SemiHollowCarrot/r/FULLCOMMUNISM is the real /r/socialism 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

      After I had my way with her I had to drive her back to the train station and I explained how the lottery was exploiting her and how she was degrading herself into prostitution

      I'll be god damned.

      [–]totallynotacontraLibertarian Socialist 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

      We need to cross post this to the r/thebluepill and r/againstmensrights. We also need to try take this sub over. This is beyond sick.

      [–]-greyhaze-Flexible Socialist 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Please tell us how we can report this sub.

      [–]devilinmexico13 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      http://reddit.com/r/hookertalk/comments/46q6n0/so_does_anyone_else_seek_out_bareback_with_newbies/d0cc149

      Holy shit, I can't decide if I want to vomit or fucking torture this guy for as long as I can keep him alive.

      [–]UnkelBewger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The latter, but it'd take a few days and a few orbital sander disks to remove all the bad karma someone like that accumulates over the years.

      [–]nothingnessandbeingMarxist-Existentialist-Žižekian 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      This one's particularly horrific:

      "Just fucked a newbie who needed money for Powerball tickets."

      https://www.reddit.com/r/hookertalk/comments/40vtpc/just_fucked_a_newbie_who_needed_money_for/

      Horrible.

      [–]Shrub74just give me those means of production dawg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      holy shit how haven't we revolted yet

      these people need the wall

      [–]rulbamLiterally a newborn - googoo gahgah 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      All these fuckers go to gulag.

      [–]iamkirbyteRed Flag 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Holy crap that sub's disgusting

      [–]xmrsmoothx 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Just curious, what does this have to do with socialism?

      [–]keshanu 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      To put it simply: Because sex workers are workers too. That's not even considering that to be an effective movement, socialism should combat all forms of oppression.

      [–]jaskot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yuck. Those posts are disgusting.

      [–]Comrade_Soomie 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      That is vile and disgusting. I'm trying to do research now on how marketing coerces men to go against what biology dictates. Prostitution and pornography are very understudied markets even though they are LARGE markets. But I don't know. They really disgust me. It just disgusts me that in our society we pose women as commodities to be bought and sold, used and upgraded. It's not good for anyone involved but I worry about what it's doing to our psychology.

      [–]LUClEN 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      i'm trying to do research now on how marketing coerces men to go against what biology dictates.

      Interesting concept. Any examples?

      [–]KarmaUK 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Anal?

      I realise that sounds flippant, but I would be willing to wager there's a lot more pressure to have anal sex now since it's been so normalised by the porn industry, just as I can't really imagine anyone having an urge to give anyone a 'facial' 50 years ago.

      [–]miraoisterEDDIE HITLER 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      /r/ffsreddit is for you.

      I posted there about /r/holocaust being a sub run as a nasty joke by neo-nazis, and the reply was...

      "well you cant expect everyone to agree with you." which even that shocked me quite a bit.

      [–]Anarcho-StalinistComprehensive list of quality political systems: ☭ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      What do you mean didn't let you do it? Just fuckin hold her down. If she wriggles, then threaten her with a bad review. That's why you see girls with good review histories to protect, and write a lot of reviews so that your opinion is important.

      Why won't the admins remove this type of content? It's literally calling for rape.

      [–]h4rb1nger 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Comrades what do you think about the porn industry and or prostituion. In an ideal society is prostitution or porn legal? I have heard in my school people argue that prostitution should be legalized. Some of the typical arguments are that women voluntarily choose this job. I think this is far from the truth. We have to ask ourselves: in a healthy society where there are many jobs available for women and wealth is distributed equally why would one choose such a job? I do not have a way to prove this (perhaps some of you can point to a study) but most women in porn or prostituion come from poor or less well off backgrounds and are working in such demeaning jobs in order to survive or because it pays well. Especially in a society that we currently live in where women are shamed for working in such a job (e.g. Sasha Grey's recent statement on treatment of women in porn industry).

      [–]SikhyBanterComrade on the streets, comrade in the sheets[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I don't think anyone should be shamed for doing a job that does not hurt anyone else. It's an interesting point on the transactional nature of paid-for sex, that it in many ways is completely separate from romantic sex, in fact a lot more like masturbation. In this way I feel that industries that do not harm people should be perfectly legal, however, no-one should be forced into said industries.

      I do note that pornography can be harmful in that people can become addicted and it can distort their idea of real sex, to the point where they can't get pleasure from it, but I do not think that this should be treated differently from people addicted to drugs, or those who have eating disorders. By this I mean pornography should be accepted but it must be noted that in a few cases it can have negative effects on people.

      [–]h4rb1nger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I hear what you are saying Comrade. I agree with you that women should not be forced, but in the current capitalist state of affairs I think that they are. I also agree that today, porn can distort one's idea of real sex and this too I feel is tied to capital. The porn film makers are driven by profit and have exaggerated fetishes in their films in order to generate viewership, hence revenue. The damage done to the society (e.g. Distorted idea of sex) gets ignored for capital accumulation.