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Voting Results Showing Overwhelming Classic Support in Chinese Community. Multiple translated 8btc voting results. (imgur.com)

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[–]7a11l409b1d3c65 20ポイント21ポイント  (9子コメント)

If only the Chinese miners could so something about that issue right? If only there was a possibility to democratically let the votes decide which roadmap gets adopted... hmmmm

 

The reason why Bitcoin has these huge problems in the first place is because Satoshi assumed rational miners = miners that act in self-interest and play according to the rules of the game. Unfortunately and obviously though, Chinese miners do not understand the very basic concept of the underlying system. Just hearing things like "consensus agreement" or "roundtable meeting" makes me realize they are missing the fundamental principle of voting via hashpower which Satoshi proposed. Bitcoin already has a voting-mechanism implemented. There is no need to reach external agreement. Just start voting ffs. If they refuse to understand it, we have to change the PoW to switch to miners who actually do agree to the system. Satoshi said it himself. If they don't play according to the rules and continue doing external meetings, there is no other choice.

 

EDIT: By the way, does a translated version of the Satoshi whitepaper even exist? That would explain a lot.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is what I am actively pushing over there. =)

Give them some time. They've been ruled under authoritarian for thousands of year after all. ;)

[–]7a11l409b1d3c65 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great, thanks. Wanted to add that I don't want to sound racist. Made a strikethrough at the word "Chinese", since its not solely them.

[–]knircky 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

The problem is not with miners and their ability to know what's right but by the fact that miners are centralized and can pressures and manipulated as a result.

If we had a few k miners than everyone would just do what they want. But now all you have to do is manage 2 guys and you hve the entire eco system under control.

Given the fact that these two to three miners control so much capital and have so much at risk it's easy to assert pressure....

[–]7a11l409b1d3c65 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point. But if the miners understood the system, it would work even if they are just 6 guys. Have to agree though that decentralization would make it harder to manipulate them at roundtable meetings or with dubious agreements. I think the problem is a mixture of your point and my point.

[–]Egon_1 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

does a translated version of the Satoshi whitepaper even exist?

I am also curious /u/kcbitcoin

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, there is.

比特币白皮书：一种点对点的电子现金系统.

It is translated by 8btc and Jihan Wu (Antpool Operator).

[–]readfeed1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honest question, why is it in miners best interest to increase block limit? Short term ROI, higher fees is always a welcome bonus when finding a block.

[–]sqrt7744 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait a second... What happens if all the exchanges agree to accept coins from New pow coin? That becomes defacto new Bitcoin, changes and improvements are suddenly possible. Hmmm.

[–]7a11l409b1d3c65 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, but the network would be less secure and a 51% attack much much cheaper. So it should be considered as the very last way out. Unfortunately though, we are not far from it anymore.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

Hey native English speakers, I wonder what's the difference between saying voting results and poll results.

Edit: Thanks everybody for the English lesson. Much is learned. :D

[–]Bagatell_ 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

Very little if any.

You would be more likely to vote for your government and poll to see who likes ice cream.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

That clears things up a lot. Thanks. =)

So should I say voting results here or polling results?

[–]higgletypiggletypop 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Poll. A vote has some action automatically attached to the outcome. If you're just checking what people think it is a poll.

[–]knight222 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's more like a poll. A vote is somewhat final or more official.

[–]rikard3000 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't a poll a survey to get information, but a vote is something that decides what action to take?

So "poll results" here

[–]Bagatell_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is there a difference in Chinese?

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is only one word to choose if u are talking about either voting or polling.

[–]Bagatell_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then like others have said, go with polling.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think the only fortunate thing in this unfortunate disaster is that the censorship is only heavy in the Western forums, while China holds most of the hash power.

[–]RaginglikeaBoss 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

The irony is telling.

[–]hellobitcoinworld 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for your help on the Chinese front, where many of the rest of us have a language barrier.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No problem. We are in this together. :)

[–]Btcmeltdown 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

So what are chinese miners waiting for?

Leave Core already.

[–]mmouse- 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Most obvious reason: A miner needs a pool. There is still no classic pool in China. So still no choice.

[–]Egon_1 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one is willing to use the first mover advantage and dominate classic mining until the halving?

[–]AwfulCrawler 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

f2pool are running a classic subpool. However this seems to have been incredibly poorly advertised.

[–]Egon_1 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Hashing is true voting.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

But miners won't do anything against the community, so letting the community speaks out is good for undecided miners.

[–]Egon_1 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

How would they ever know what the community wants if they don't offer the choice. KnC (and soon Slush) are currently the only ones that mine Classic blocks.

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Through community voting on forums, I guess?

[–]Egon_1 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

they are representative?

[–]kcbitcoin[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sort of like a random sampling of the whole community?

[–]mothershipstarboard 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I support Classic for to 2MB, with only 75%

I support Core for to 2MB, with 90% safely

Even with this obvious bias towards Core in the questioning it is still overwhelmingly in Classic's favor.

Although, the sample size is quite small.

[–]AlfafaOfIntensePain 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who started these polls? Community members? Anyone of influence? Miners?

Did any miners comment on the results?

[–]mcr55 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

30 people is not a representative sample. The source is also important.

If I did this poll on r/bitcoin vs r/btc I'd get very difrente results.

[–]ApathyLincoln -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is the numbers on the far right the count of votes?

If so, the sample size is fairly small. I imagine with billions of people, China would have more than a hundred people for a poll like this.

[–]chuckymcgee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The sample size is fairly small, but how many chinese miners are there period?

It's not some scientific poll, but I'll take it as at least strong anecdotal evidence Chinese miners are open to Classic.