全 84 件のコメント

[–]Sodaducky 2ポイント3ポイント  (21子コメント)

Yes

[–]lucycohen[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (17子コメント)

It's the name of an article, a great read! Also thanks for sharing your opinion on the topic.

[–]Sodaducky 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

We live in a world where we listen to celebs and not doctors and professionals. One person's kid has autism and she blames it on vaccines. Now a days it seems like no one wants them unless there is a pandemic of diseases

[–]lucycohen[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (15子コメント)

It's mostly celebs (J Lo, Angelina Jolie, Michelle Obama, Bill Gates etc) and the mainstream media trying to push the pro-vaccine propaganda, the mainstream media get their information direct from the industry.

Fortunately there are many independent doctors and researchers who are allowed to be honest, it is these people who warn us about the dangers of the current vaccine schedule. It is wise to listen to these honest medical professionals, as if someone who works for Merck tells us the wonders of vaccines, they have a huge conflict of interest, so are not a good source of information.

A CDC whistleblower recently stepped forward and admitted to being part of the vaccine/Autism cover-up, I applaud him for this, now we need more corporate-controlled doctors to do the same!

[–]Sodaducky -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

Yea but what's wrong getting vaccines? It helps those who get them and don't get them. Imagine the world we would live in if there weren't any vaccines

[–]lucycohen[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

The problem we have is they they are causing long-term diseases, far worse than any theoretical good they are doing. Even if we could prove they were decreasing short-term mild infectious disease, by causing serious long-term disease, particularly autoimmune, and leaving recipients on drugs for life, that means vaccines are doing a lot more harm than good. However, the pharmaceuticals have a conflict of interest, as if their vaccines harm us then we become a customer for life, buying drugs every month, so there's no incentive for pharma to clean up their vaccines, in fact quite the opposite.

[–]Sodaducky -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

See but I was in a discussion about vaccines and everytime I bring up the conspiracy people throw all the facts about how you can see exactly what's inside the vaccine and how there's nothing there that harms you. How do you counteract that argument?

[–]lucycohen[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

What you've been made to believe are 'facts' are actually completely flawed, they make schoolboy errors like comparing eating Mercury to injecting Mercury, and they list the reasons why an ingredient is in a vaccine rather than looking at the safety. There's a lot of propaganda that gets pumped around as Big Pharma have plenty of money to fund it, you have to spend time getting to know the topic in detail, then you'll find it easy to debunk the pro-vaccine 'facts' that get thrown at you.

I'd strongly recommend you spend time on the information I posted when you get the chance, it's a steep learning curve, but well worth it given that you health and the health of your children is at stake.

[–]Heisenberg2308 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

they make schoolboy errors like comparing eating Mercury to injecting Mercury

Alright Mr chemist, prove to me you know the difference between the effects of these and maybe I'll take you seriously

[–]lucycohen[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's good that you want to learn more about the difference between injecting a metal and consuming it orally, here a professor will explain the difference

The Effect of Aluminum in Vaccines on Humans

[–]Sodaducky -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll definitely check it out

[–]BulletBilll -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Even if vaccines caused disabilities, which pretty much doesn't really happen, but then are you arguing slow painful death is better than a lifetime of living with a disability and the eventual eradication of such diseases?

[–]lucycohen[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

They aren't eradicating diseases, Small Pox was eradicated by quarantine, Polio was renamed, everything else is still going around, while at the same time vaccine-induced autoimmune diseases are at record levels as are Cancer rates

[–]BulletBilll -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What was polio renamed to? Also source on record level of increase in diseases caused by vaccinations?

[–]lucycohen[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since I can tell you're interested in finding out more about the other side of the debate, I'll provide you with some information for when you get the time to research.

The Greater Good - Award-Winning Vaccine Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_nWp6ZHA2Q

Here's a doctor who's speaking out against the madness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQOv-Oi6U

A doctor who's comparing the risks against the theoretical benefits of each vaccine in the schedule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oYAVLDyR6Y

To get into the detail, here's what's known as the Vaccine Safety Conference, it's where the world's experts get together and present their findings, but without corporate influence

Vaccine Safety Conference

https://www.youtube.com/user/VaccineSafetyConf/videos

To cut a long story short, after over 15 years on this, here's my own conclusion:- Vaccines are being used to induce highly profitable diseases (mostly autoimmune) which leave us dependent on expensive drugs for life, this is how the corporations increase the size of their drug sales market.

[–]Heisenberg2308 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yet there are even more independent doctors that are pro vaccine. So what's your point? There's obviously no changing your mind. You believe what you want.

But that's the good thing about science, it's true whether or not you believe it.

[–]lucycohen[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's independent doctors who speak out against them and demand improved safety, they are not necessarily against vaccines 100%, they just want the science brought up to standard

[–]SavageDark -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

but should be a choice

[–]SavageDark 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

It may be public good, but the choice should be ours to make; forcing it upon people is immoral.

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because few people opting out defeats the puddle of developing herd immunity and eradication of a particular disease

[–]SavageDark 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

is this a free country or not?

[–]Britt121 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. Let the people do what they want. I only get freaked out by the government mandate folks. They have zero respect for personal liberties.

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (27子コメント)

Enough with this nonsense already. Do you see polio around? Or smallpox? No because people chose to vaccinate their kids. India even recently eradicated polio completely from their nation by aggressive pulse polio immunisation. That is a fact! Polio did not just choose to leave the country overnight. Only Through years of repetitive vaccination of all new born babies did they manage to achieve this. There's something called herd immunity, which can be only achieved by mass immunisation. This not only helps you, but those people who are immunocompramised and cannot afford to take vaccines you are indirectly protecting them as well. And by not taking vaccines you are putting their lives at risk too. Please don't become the reason that a eradicated disease like smallpox or polio is unleashed back into this world affecting millions.

[–]lucycohen[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (26子コメント)

I can see you're new to this topic and have mostly been exposed to marketing information, this link will provide you with the other side of the story

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/48fxnj/is_vaccination_a_public_good/d0jdfun

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Have a look at this my friend. It's a comparison of the prevalence rates of disease just in the US alone pre and post invention of vaccination. Now Think how much it has impacted in a global scale.

http://onforb.es/1TkL0un

edit: explanation added

[–]lucycohen[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Correlation is not causation, look to improved nutrition and sanitation, then look to vaccines to explain the epidemics of autoimmune disease and Cancers

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you kidding me? How on earth was smallpox eradicated? How can you be like mindless sheeps and not see facts when I put it in front of your eyes

Ofcourse sanitation plays a big deal in reducing incidences.. But seriously.. Complete eradication to the point of 0 cases for 3 years? (3 years is minimum time requires to categorise a disease eradicated according to WHO, which you would know if you had a medical degree) and even in countries like India? You seriously think 100 percent of the population of India and US or any country for that matter followed hazmat level sanitary precautions for 3 years to prevent transmission of viruses?

[–]sexierthanhisbrother -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correlation is not causation

bruh

what the fuck else would have eradicated all that

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (21子コメント)

new to this topic and have mostly been exposed to marketing information

No, I am not new or been talking from marketing information. I am a double degree holding bachelor of Medicine, bachelor of surgery, doctor who spent 8 years at med school studying about these diseases and how to control/eradicate them than sit and read online articles overnight which some deranged people wrote up. What is your qualification my dear sir?

edit : added "overnight which"

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of course, you can be anyone you want to be on Reddit, but let's imagine for a moment that you're telling the truth, you've being fed Big Pharma studies which are being taken at face value, blind trust that these guys can be trusted. Now listen to the experts who are speaking out and wonder why their information didn't get to you.

The Vaccine Safety Conference

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not believing anyone. I am believing the results these vaccines have given! We don't study books made by pharma companies. We study medical textbooks which have been compiled by doctors and experts and researchers in the field for ages which have been revised and scrutinised to the highest of the standards. And we see the effects of vaccines and how they gave rise to a better world. That's why we believe in them. You keep calling these people experts. Whom do you think writes medical textbooks? Just some random guy on his laptop over the night?

[–]Gusashi -4ポイント-3ポイント  (18子コメント)

Shit just got real haha.

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shit just got real haha.

The med school guy who's main debating skill is to call anyone who disagrees with him 'retarted'

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -2ポイント-1ポイント  (16子コメント)

Haha, not trying to show off or anything, but this thing is totally absurd. I mean how retarted can people get? They are undoing eradication which we achieved over the span of multiple decades of hard work and global effort. And they are putting not just their own sorry lives but the whole world and new borns to risk. It's outrageous!

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (15子コメント)

Daniel-Darkfire "I mean how retarted can people get?"

I'm definitely calling BS on your great education, you're just a standard poster repeating PR info and acting childish

[–]ragecry 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

TIL 15 year old video gamers hold multiple degrees.

http://snoopsnoo.com/u/Daniel-Darkfire

Do doctors research and experiment with putting meth up their anus?

https://np.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/2xmzvs/i_have_done_every_drug_except_some_test_chemicals/cp1og4w

[–]Daniel-Darkfire 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And wow! Digging up my post history is the only means of argument you can put up? How pathetic of you to stoop so low

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

You just got the age part wrong buddy, I love gaming. And am a doctor.

And Yes, not meth, but lots of other drugs are administered rectally. And the bioavailability of each drugs vary according to the mode of administration. I had a passion about how recreational drugs interact with neurotransmitters and their effects on cholinergic and anticholinergic plates. Hence the discussion. And if you knew how to read you'd have seen all I was asking was how much drug enters the body. Also the first link does say am a doctor. Which you convinetly skipped past. Do I have to show you my medical degree for you to believe sir?

[–]ragecry 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes, not method

You were talking about methamphetamine in that thread. But for some reason I need to clarify what I meant by "meth". Hmmm.

Also the first link does say am a doctor.

That is based on your self-proclaimed doctor and photographer title which you mentioned in a reddit comment. Click the little # next to the Doctor tag and you'll find the thread where it pulled that info from, surprise it is your own comment :)

[–]Daniel-Darkfire 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, that site is badass, I must admit.

And yes photography is my big time hobby, nothing professional though.

Professionally am a doctor. And I don't know how I can prove it to you.

And read it properly, I asked how does are the effects of rectal administration of recreational drugs.. He gave example for meth (snorting Vs iv) and I asked the next question.

Anyways, I do not understand, How is it relevant to this conversation kind sir?

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

And what exactly are you doing my dear sir? Show me your own findings, show me your research papers, show me your control studies and not just some random articles on the Web which are not yours if u want to call my arguments bs and pr material

And acting childish? Oh.. Putting the whole world and new borns in danger is so mature and manly!

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

If you are interested in learning more I'd strongly recommend you investing time in the presentations given at the Vaccine Safety Conference, if you genuinely want to learn more and form a balance opinion on vaccines that's the place to start. At the moment it's clear you've only heard one side of the story which is essentially the PR/Marketing side.

If you haven't got time or you've already made up your mind, here's a study to get your thinking.

Study Finds The More Vaccines a Developed Nation Gives The Worse It's Infant Mortality Rate

"These findings demonstrate a counter-intuitive relationship: nations that require more vaccine doses tend to have higher infant mortality rates."

[–]Decency -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for linking to an actual peer reviewed study. You should immediately see, however, that it was later corrected, and should check out that correction.

In that correction, you'll see that the study was done by two people: one person who belongs to an anti-vaccine group, and one person who used to. The funding for the study was also provided by an anti-vaccine group. And remember: they somehow managed to "forget" to reveal all of this information and these massive conflicts of interest initially, and needed to correct them. That's not how science works: if you're going into a "study" hiding your affiliations and looking to prove a political point for the people who paid you for the study, it's not science, it's just garbage.

With that said, authors being disingenuous, blatantly biased, or even outright liars doesn't entirely discredit statistics or research, just their interpretations. In this example, though, it's incredibly clear how they rigged their numbers: they chose to look at only the United States and countries with a lower IMR than it. The United States is infamous as the only country in the developed world without universal health care: every single other country that was included in the study has free universal health care: all 33. The US also requires a large number of vaccinations, for basic public health reasons, and because the majority of them are developed in the the country. I am very sure that a closer look at the correlation in the authors' study that included the next couple of dozen countries on the list of IMR would make the authors' conclusion fall apart almost instantly.

[–]Daniel-Darkfire -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Your article says glutamate is a neurotoxin. That's the biggest blatant lie and which shows the author is just spinning tales out of her bottom. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter and plays a essential role in the brain, spine and neurons in the conduction of stimuli and action potentials. Which you would have known if you actually bothered to look up than mindlessly following the article

Now who is mindlessly following stories written by retards? And who is basing their view on medical textbooks which are compiled after years of research?

[–]lucycohen[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I see you're responding about the original article now, not the study I just posted. Quick tip, if you keep calling everyone a 'retard' it messes up your med school act

Daniel-Darkfire "Your article says glutamate is a neurotoxin."

Wikipedia agrees with me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotoxicity

"Some of the most common naturally occurring brain toxins that lead to neurotoxicity as a result of excessive dosage are beta amyloid (Aβ), glutamate and oxygen radicals. When present in high concentrations they can lead to neurotoxicity and death (apoptosis)."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014299909005780

"Glutamate is an endogenous excitatory neurotransmitter. At high concentrations, it is neurotoxic and contributes to the development of certain neurodegenerative diseases."

[–]ragecry 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Doctors don't use the word retard like you do. Sorry to break the news to you chump.

[–]TeslasMuse 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

if they have to falsify scientific studies in order to show they're safe? no fucking way.

[–]Heisenberg2308 -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

Link or get that shit out of here

[–]TeslasMuse 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

[–]Jacob6493 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

No science to be seen here, move along.

[–]TeChinga 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are a couple good ones. What about the one with the Uni testing vaccines on monkeys?

[–]Heisenberg2308 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

So just a bunch of blog posts? You're right. Please go collect your Nobel prize with this groundbreaking data

[–]TeslasMuse 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

ah, big pharma trolls are never satisfied.

may god have mercy on your soul.

[–]Heisenberg2308 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

You'll forgive me if I don't take a blog run out of someone's basement as a credible source

[–]TeslasMuse 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

anyone who has eyes can see the link is to all of reddit's vaccine posts. not sure what you're babbling about.

run along, troll.

[–]Heisenberg2308 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

anyone who has eyes can see the link is to all of reddit's vaccine posts. not sure what you're babbling about. reddit doesn't host content, but rather links you to the source. In this case, a bunch of self posts and blog websites.

You don't even know how reddit works yet I'm supposed to believe you have all the vaccine answers figured out. Ya know, instead of just calling me a troll you could try to defend your position. Usually when people are unable to do that, it means they have no idea what they're talking about.

Go on, don't get vaccinated. See if I care. Let polio come back and natural selection will run it's course.

[–]TeslasMuse 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

ah...the brainwashing is heavy here. you clearly know more than me so how can i argue with such wisdom and your motives are entirely pure and only for the good of mankind. your motives have nothing to do with greed and a depopulation plan.

[–]Heisenberg2308 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still not a single defense of your viewpoint. You're right. I'm the troll.

Btw, nice ad hominem post.

[–]Gusashi -1ポイント0ポイント  (16子コメント)

Of course they are. In all honesty this argument is so ludicrous to me. Someone who is anti please explain how bringing back extinct diseases is good for anyone? Unless your into the natural selection thing and feel the world needs to be cleansed.

[–]lucycohen[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (15子コメント)

I see you'd like to learn more about why people are questioning vaccines, refusing vaccines or choosing safer vaccine schedules. Here's some information to get you started

The Greater Good - Award-Winning Vaccine Documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_nWp6ZHA2Q

Here's a doctor who's speaking out against the madness

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFQQOv-Oi6U

A doctor who's comparing the risks against the theoretical benefits of each vaccine in the schedule

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oYAVLDyR6Y

To get into the detail, here's what's known as the Vaccine Safety Conference, it's where the world's experts get together and present their findings, but without corporate influence

Vaccine Safety Conference

https://www.youtube.com/user/VaccineSafetyConf/videos

To cut a long story short, after over 15 years on this, here's my own conclusion:- Vaccines are being used to induce highly profitable diseases (mostly autoimmune) which leave us dependent on expensive drugs for life, this is how the corporations increase the size of their drug sales market.

[–]ZizZizZiz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

While it may be true that vaccines tend to cause problems, it is best to see them as a necessary evil in order for modern society to carry on at its current capacity.

With this many people in so little space in modern urban areas, and the ease of travel across the world nowadays, the lack of proper and widespread medical treatments like vaccines would make pandemics like the Bird Flu outbreak in 1918 commonplace.

You should consider that no medicine is truly, purely safe for you. Even allergy medicine can have shocking side effects, but if you have severe allergies, would you rather suffer them without intervention, or be free of them and run the risk of a side effect?

[–]lucycohen[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

it is best to see them as a necessary evil in order for modern society to carry on at its current capacity.

It's just assumption that, the pharmaceuticals aren't interested in tracking the harm caused by vaccines, at least not officially, their drug sales market will give them a good clue as to which autoimmune diseases have been induced by a newly-introduced vaccine.

[–]Heisenberg2308 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Youtube videos are not credible. If this movement had any actual scientific evidence then by all means, post that. Not some video with shitty effects that was made for a high school project.

Haha, downvoted for asking for data rather than a homemade video. This place never ceases to amaze me

[–]lucycohen[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you don't want to listen to the world's experts giving presentations because the videos are on 'YouTube', I'd question your capacity and willingness to research this topic effectively.

[–]Daniel-Darkfire 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesn't matter if they're world experts or not. Their findings will only matter if they can publish a scientific paper/journal with research data to back up their claims. Until then anyone in the Internet can be a PhD doctor

[–]Heisenberg2308 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha "experts"

"Experts" that hire speakers like Andrew Wakefield. You remember him right? He was the guy that wrote the fraudulent paper (while also having a financial conflict of interest). Went on to be fired and the paper was retracted because zero scientists could duplicate his results. Yet still tries to profit off of spreading misinformation.

I'd question your capacity and willingness to research this topic effectively.

You're the one basing your entire argument on a proven fraudulent theory.

[–]Irishpunk72 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Still waiting on the Anti Vaccine crowd to answer this one. Alas, all I hear is crickets.

[–]Gusashi -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not interested in pouring over all these websites, you won't change my stance. Answer my question.

[–]Hunter_Bot 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

You're in the wrong subreddit if you aren't interesting in looking for the facts and coming to your own conclusion. /u/LucyCohen has offered you the tools, it's YOUR job to seize them :)))))

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're in the wrong subreddit if you aren't interesting in looking for the facts and coming to your own conclusion. /u/LucyCohen has offered you the tools, it's YOUR job to seize them :)))))

Precisely, thank you Hunter_Bot!

[–]Heisenberg2308 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

There aren't going to be any facts in these youtube videos. If you have some peer reviewed studies, feel free to post them. Until then, use credible sources or gtfo

[–]lucycohen[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You sound very biased, you know too much to listen to the research of the world's experts, instead only listen to Merck, we can trust them you say.

Peer-reviewed study finds vaccines are inducing autoimmune disease

"Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality."

[–]Gusashi -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have made my decision. And I've done my own research. I'm trying to get an answer to my question. "Someone who is anti please explain how bringing back extinct diseases is good for anyone"? Measles was declared extinct in 2000 yet there were nearly 100 cases in California last year. Why? I want to understand the mentality of letting your child contract these possibly fatal diseases. Who is to blame when your 6 month old dies from whooping cough?

[–]Britt121 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vaccinated populations can spread the disease for which they were vaccinated against. It's not necessarily the unvaxxed that cause these problems. Vaccine failures happen all the time.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1646939/