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PHYSICALLY REMOVED (SO TO SPEAK) (youtu.be)
AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds が 2日前 投稿
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[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 2日前* (45子コメント)
So, I'm explaining the idea behind it, don't shoot the messenger: homosexuality is inherently hedonistic.
Homosexuals can not have their own children, at least they can't both be equally invested in the child, which means they're not invested in the long-term success of any community and society. This gives them a short-term view of the world, focused on the events that will happen in their life time. This is not morally evil, but it's not ideal for a group of people trying to create the best environment for children. Also, remember that Hoppe said that in a libertarian social order Communists were necessarily incompatible whereas homosexuals are incompatible with a "covenant" to provide the, again, best environment for children.
As an individual, you act in your self-interest. Charity may be in your self-interest because you feel good about helping people. Homosexuals are much less likely to feel genuinely invested in the next 100 years of any society, as they are so "short-lived" as childless individuals. If you have children, you might do "irrational" things like saving shit loads of money to help them- irrational in the sense that it's "not in your self-interest" to make such a sacrifice for the next generation, of course if you recognize empathy as granting one happiness as well as spending, it becomes clear that the investment in the next generation causes parents to sacrifice their immediate "hedonistic" materialist pleasure for the empathetic pleasure of their children's well-being. While on an individual level, one man with children may be less concerned about the future than a man without, on average it seems necessarily true that a group of adults with children (or at least capable of having them) will be much more invested in the long-term success of society than a group without.
Maynard Keynes, a reputed homosexual, said things like: "The long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is past the ocean is flat again." which is exactly what you would think if you weren't going to have kids; parents, on the other hand, frequently leave their children "irrational" amounts of money and property. Keynes is willing to risk long-term troubles for immediate "solutions" because he's worried about his lifetime and not the unborn children who will pay for the stimulus spent today.
I, personally, would not see the need for libertarian homosexuals to be "physically removed" unless they were openly promoting irresponsible sexual behavior; yes, chastity is a virtue if you want your society to function in the long term, if you disagree on this point please compare the relative chastity of empires as they build or at least maintain status, as compared to the relative sexual liberation and decadence during collapsing empires. Speaking of chastity, if promiscuity is any sign of hedonism, and I would say that it is not exactly a "higher form of happiness," then the sexual promiscuity of homosexuals is empirical evidence of hedonistic tendencies. Hedonists aren't bad in principle, just not the best people to have around children. Personally, I don't hate homosexuals, but I don't think homosexual behavior should be encouraged; hold your outrage, I am sure some people have no choice in the matter, for those that do, we should encourage them to prefer heterosexuality, or at the least not glorify the "diversity" of homosexuality. Why? Because if an individual does have some degree of choice (he or she is not strictly disposed towards heterosexuality or homosexuality) then it would be in society's best interests if they were heterosexual due to an issue of incentives I explained above. I recognize that some people may be "on the edge" as in not purely heterosexual or homosexual, and it is objectively in the best interests of a society in the long-term for the former to be preferred, assuming you agree to the premise that people having a long-term interest in society is good for that society (this is exactly the argument Hoppe makes for monarchies being superior to democracies: the incentives of the people in charge.) Is it unfair for the individuals in society to non-violently encourage other individuals to behave in a way that benefits society's long term stability? I would say no, people use social pressure to enforce what they think is in their best interest/child's best interest, so either make an argument as to how the pressure is excessive or inappropriately applied or stop expecting anyone to care. The incentives homosexuals have, compared to a heterosexual, is towards hedonism. Again, this doesn't mean they're objectively horrible people, it's just a fact of incentives, and incentives shape behavior (if you deny this you are now reaching liberal-tier special pleading of incentives not affecting behavior.)
We should also discourage transgenderism for much the same reason. Since 80% of children who "think they're the opposite sex" for a bit (trans) end up satisfied with their equipment as adults, and since getting snoopy snipped (reassignment) does not lower the tremendous suicide rates of transsexuals, and since transsexuals have difficulty even in the world's most "progressive" European societies, we should not encourage this. We should encourage our children to think critically, even if this is uncomfortable for some people who have difficulty thinking critically for whatever personal reason. We should encourage people to diet and exercise, even if this means that people that are overweight feel less comfortable in society and have to pay more for clothes since there's a smaller market for them (pun intended, heh.) If we can agree on this (and by encourage I mean non-violent social pressure) I don't see why we can't agree that we should discourage a lifestyle (like hedonism or homosexuality) which is bad for the long-term sustainability and success of society? Would it not be better for everyone else if such patterns of thought were concentrated in certain areas (which would actually be a stunning example of how destructive such lifestyles are?) I should clarify that I don't think that homosexual couples who lead stable monogamous lives lead destructive lives, but I am also not so blinded by some desire to make gays feel accepted that I pretend that this is the norm in the gay community. At the very least, it would be rational to require that any gays within a family/kin/child-centered community would be expected to be adoptive parents. If you want to organize your family-centered community with a bunch of hedonists, whether or not they're heterosexual, go ahead, but I would not agree that's in any child's best interest.
[–]Wrong_OpinionStoic 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 2日前 (23子コメント)
Your entire theory crumbles because you make a fatal flaw in assuming that because homosexuals cannot create families in the same way heterosexuals do, that they have no interest in the future of their community.
That's quite mistaken.
[–]Shalashaska315Triple H 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2日前 (0子コメント)
AKA The Gay Uncle Theory
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 2日前* (21子コメント)
I specifically addressed the fact that one individual without a nuclear family could be MORE INVESTED in the long-term outcomes of society. This is the exception to the rule. One individual with a lower IQ could more than another individual with a higher IQ- this does not change the fact that IQ is a strong predictor of income.
Compare two groups, the first being entirely homosexual in orientation, ceteris paribus it will have less of an emotional investment in the long-term outcome than the latter heterosexual group with children. Again, homosexuality is an incentive towards hedonism; you accurately point out incentives do not determine individual behavior, but you can not refute that incentives influence group behavior on aggregate.
You can have someone in the "maximally non-ideal" environment to make them a violent criminal (designed to make them criminal, it's ideal for making criminals, non-ideal from my perspective), yet comes out completely peaceful and non-violent. Does this mean that people from such a bad environment ARE EQUALLY likely, ON AVERAGE, to commit crime relative to people from better environments? No, while that bad environment can't tell us definitively about an individual, its effects on an aggregate are unavoidable.
In the same way you can have someone with an IQ of 103 work their ass off to become a lawyer, this doesn't change the fact that it is much more likely for a person with an IQ of 120 to be a lawyer, on average.
[–]Wrong_OpinionStoic 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2日前 (20子コメント)
I specifically addressed the fact that one individual without a nuclear family could be MORE INVESTED in the long-term outcomes of society. This is the exception to the rule.
I'm not talking about individuals. I quite plainly wrote in the context of homosexual families.
Compare two groups, the first being entirely homosexual in orientation, ceteris paribus it will have less of an emotional investment in the long-term outcome than the latter.
How do you know? Saying "They can't have children" isn't proof of this. They could adopt orphaned children. They could donate their DNA to a surrogate mother.
You can have someone in the "maximally non-ideal" environment to make them a violent criminal, yet comes out completely peaceful and non-violent. Does this mean that people from such a bad environment ARE EQUALLY likely, ON AVERAGE, to commit crime relative to people from better environments? No, while that bad environment can't tell us definitively about an individual, its effects on an aggregate are unavoidable.
I fail to see what this has to do with homosexual interest in families.
In the same way you can have someone with an IQ of 103 work their ass off to become a lawyer, this doesn't change the fact that it is much more likely for a person with an IQ of 120 to be a lawyer, on
Again, I thought we were talking about the hedonistic gays that don't give a care for humanity's future.
Then again you are talking about lawyers...
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前* (19子コメント)
Both parents are not going to be as emotionally invested. See: step-parents. They have no genetic investment in the child of their spouse and are MUCH more likely to abuse said child. This is proof that people care less about kids that aren't "theirs." Not that they don't care at all.
I was proving that an incentive/factor that affects behavior on aggregate might prove totally irrelevant on the individual level.
[–]Wrong_OpinionStoic 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2日前 (18子コメント)
So despite choosing a child to raise into an adult human via adoption, they somehow don't care as much? Is this a product of the magic of homosexuality? I know a het couple that adopted. Do they magically care more for the child because they aren't gay, despite the fact both couples purposefully choose that child of theirs to raise after careful consideration and years of tests, money, and legal work?
What of the couple who contributed DNA to a surrogate? It is their direct progeny after all.
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前* (17子コメント)
So despite choosing a child to raise into an adult human via adoption, they somehow don't care as much?
They're less likely to. They're not related. To be clear, I don't mean they're likely to "not care at all", I mean it's likely the degree of emotional investment for non-related individuals will be lower on average for related individuals.
Is this a product of the magic of homosexuality?
I was basing this claim off of heterosexual step parents who do not treat non-related children nearly as well as related parents do.
Do they magically care more for the child because they aren't gay,
Nope. A hetero couple and a homo couple are about as likely to care for an unrelated child afaik, I don't see any reason for this to differ except that women are more caring than men so two men would be less likely to care for non-related kids than 1 man 1 woman or 2 women.
[–]Wrong_OpinionStoic 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2日前 (14子コメント)
How do you know that?
I'm seeing tons of assertions of the tradcon flavor here but it's all fluff. Where's your data?
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (13子コメント)
step parents: http://www.psych2go.net/the-cinderella-effect-evolutionarily-inclined-abusive-stepparents/
Women being more caring as a result of evolutionary biology, it's why their brains are worse at spatial reasoning and better at reading faces.
[–]Wrong_OpinionStoic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (3子コメント)
What about your data on homosexuals? You've spent a lot of time painting them as less than ideal humans in a few regards.
[–]Crassusinyourasses 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (8子コメント)
A question here on the blog post you provide
Did you notice that the author consistently refers to studies/metastudies on the statistical evidence regarding the high rates of abuse non-related guardian/parental figures. If you look in the resources almost all of the studies are statistical analysis supporting the Cinderella theory which I'm not questioning.
What I'd like you to consider is that after being remarkably good in supporting the idea of the Cinderella theory the author then makes a series of extrapolations based on that without ever referencing a single paper, person, or study to back it up. That's curious considering the effort to convince you the Cinderella theory was legit. When you look into the references there's only a single paper from 2007 that even begins to touch upon the author's ideas. That's not a compelling arguement.
As you base quite a lot of your argument on two flawed sources do you have something of better quality?
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (1子コメント)
They're less likely to. They're not related.
you're the worst
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (0子コメント)
see http://www.psych2go.net/the-cinderella-effect-evolutionarily-inclined-abusive-stepparents/
[–]Crassusinyourasses 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (1子コメント)
Do you have anything that actually backs up your claim regarding hedonism in homosexuals? The blog you link to just has statistics with no reference as to a source study so they could be referenced. You need better sources to support your claims here many of which are clearly ignorant (eg homosexuals not wanting to contribute to the society their families would be part of or for that matter the need for society to focus solely on child rearing.)
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1日前 (0子コメント)
I never said homosexuals would not or could not contribute to society. I said that homosexuals, as a whole, will have less of an emotional and financial investment in the future, especially because a homosexual can't both have a child and if they do adopt they're likely to have some of the "Cinderella effect" (not to mention, homosexuals are not particularly likely to settle down, either). Also, remember, the only point really trying to be made here is that homosexuals are not ideal for a "covenant" that is family focused and child focused. Unlike heterosexuals, who act in their "self-interest" by sacrificing for the future, as they gain an emotional reward for helping their children, homosexuals will have less of a "self-interest" beyond their death as they have no related children. As far as hedonism, you can look here, also, "In 2013, gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men accounted for 75% of primary and secondary syphilis cases in the United States," (cdc.gov) I'm sure this had nothing to do with them having sex with each other :U.
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2日前 (5子コメント)
A lot of collectivist baseless assertions here. You're disgusting.
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (2子コメント)
http://www.psych2go.net/the-cinderella-effect-evolutionarily-inclined-abusive-stepparents/
Gay people are not related to their adopted kids and, I would reason, would have the same effect with their children
You're disgusting.
Verbal abuse is not persuasive to me.
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 2日前 (1子コメント)
not trying to persuade you.
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (0子コメント)
And it should not be persuasive to anyone with reasonable standards, either.
[–]caustic_gripPaleoconservative 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (1子コメント)
"Collectivist" is the anarchist version of the meaningless leftist "racist" slur. Granted, half these so-called ancaps are precisely the sort of stuttering left-libertarian converts who've decided their original gutter-worthy political positions weren't enough to raise the hackles of "the man" - and so they adopt the edgiest position they can! Is this you? Do tell me you're not one of those, whose politics are based on impotent anger. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you can add weight to your words!
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1日前 (0子コメント)
collectivist in this context means "generalizing large groups of people and making assumptions about them"... it is a lot like racism. it is just as ignorant.
i dont have to prove anything to you. i dont even understand what you're saying. and i dont really care
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2日前 (11子コメント)
do you not realize that sexuality is not a choice that can just be altered by peer pressure? gay people have suffered for millenia for being who they are, and for you to make some weak ass pretend logic argument for "discouraging" homosexuality is an insult.
we as libertarians are not in the business of designing society but rather letting it flourish on its own terms. this is why this sub sucks... this alt-right NRX crap is seeping in way too hard. this is why i should only post in /r/private_ancap
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前* (10子コメント)
do you not realize that sexuality is not a choice that can just be altered by peer pressure?
This is objectively wrong- the idea that choice could have no role in homosexuality. Were homosexuality "inherent," twins would share the trait. So, point being, it's not an "inherent" trait, which means it's caused primarily by the environment, which at the bare minimum means that choice could be a factor. I can't say for certain that it is a factor- it undeniably is a factor in one's choice to act on such desires, especially in the case of bi-sexual individuals, who, if pressured towards heterosexuality, would be more likely to "swing" that way. Fetishes are not genetic, which in the same way opens the possibility that they are, to some degree, chosen.
gay people have suffered for millenia for being who they are,
Not everywhere
So has everyone else
So what
and for you to make some weak ass pretend logic argument for "discouraging" homosexuality is an insult.
Saying my argument is based on "pretend logic" and then attempting verbal abuse is not a rebuttal.
we as libertarians are not in the business of designing society but rather letting it flourish on its own terms.
Eschewing political violence does not mean eschewing enforcement of social norms like chastity, politeness, etc.
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (9子コメント)
I never made the argument that twins must be gay. a lot of twins ARE gay.. many of them are not, and some have one gay sibling and a straight one.
I never argued that homosexuality was genetic. I don't know where homosexuality comes from... but I know that it isnt something you just choose. I never chose to be attracted to both men and women. I felt that way since I was very young.
Sexuality is fluid and can change, but not at the whim of peer pressure. It doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.
well go ahead and enforce what you consider to be social norms. i will have a great time with all the faggots, queers, and trans people who are actually incredibly awesome and fun. see you later
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (8子コメント)
If one twin is gay, there's an 11% chance the other male twin is gay and 14% for females. Hardly an "inherent" trait.
I never argued that homosexuality was genetic. I don't know where homosexuality comes from... but I know that it isnt something you just choose.
If you just admitted you don't know where it comes from you can't then also say you know it does not come from any choice in some cases. This is like saying I have no idea what the cause of stress is, but I know it isn't x, well, you clearly are claiming to have some knowledge about what the cause is by claiming you know what the cause isn't.
I never chose to be attracted to both men and women. I felt that way since I was very young.
Anecdotal evidence is supposed to be convincing to whom exactly?
Incentives, like social pressure, effect all voluntary behavior. If not the choice to think a certain way, the choice to express that thinking.
i will have a great time with all the faggots, queers, and trans people who are actually incredibly awesome and fun. see you later
Transgender people post-op have a suicide 20 times higher than average, I am not sure that I would call people with such severe depression (and, quite often, schizophrenia) particularly awesome or fun, but rather particularly in need of psychological treatment. You can say that "people like me are the cause of it," yet I have never gone out of my way to talk about transgender individuals, in fact, this is the first time I recall writing anything about it. Not to mention, I read things I find offensive everyday and somehow avoid depression.
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (7子コメント)
If you just admitted you don't know where it comes from you can't then also say you know it does not come from any choice in some cases.
do you know any gay people? when i said i dont know where it comes from i mean that i dont know if its genetic or chemical or what. i can tell you that gay people feel the way they do because of forces beyond their control.
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (6子コメント)
do you know any gay people
I've not been close friends with any, but I've met several.
when i said i dont know where it comes from i mean that i dont know if its genetic or chemical or what. i can tell you that gay people feel the way they do because of forces beyond their control.
We've already established it's not genetic and if it's not genetic the "chemical" change would have to be a result of environment... not genetics. Also, people can change their brain chemistry via thinking, neuroplasticity is a bitch.
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2日前 (3子コメント)
if only you knew what gay people have gone through... you are clueless...
im not mad at you anymore.. i cant be mad at ignorance.
how about you talk to gay people? ask them to tell you about it.
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (2子コメント)
Atheists were burned at the stake hundreds of years ago this is not directly affecting me today. Gays are tolerated today, and in fact they have "protected" status, just like Jews, blacks, and other minorities. Hence, homosexuals of my generation can not, reasonably, play the victim card. 60 year old ones, sure.
how old are you?
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2日前 (1子コメント)
youve waded into waters too murky for your simple worldview.
i respect your right to think that homosexuality is some kind of vanity or choice taht people make on a whim.... but its not.
sexuality is fluid, and people are not all "gay" or "straight".... i dont know all the answers, but i can tell you from personal experience and tons of people in my life that are gay... that your sexuality is a big part of someones identity, and its not something you just choose on a sunday afternoon...
you can choose to fuck a member of the same sex and still be straight, but being gay is a lifestyle... its serious business.
anyway, im done here. good luck with nrx
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 2日前 (0子コメント)
Except I don't. I don't claim to understand it, I am sure the environmental factors that lead to it are complex, but environmental exposures, including abuse, are clearly playing a role. Of the people who are somewhat bi-sexual, it is preferable for the long-term of society that they lean towards heterosexuality. Again, they can do whatever they want in principle so long as it does not violate someone's property rights, but that doesn't mean the dominant social group has to endorse it.
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I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[/r/badphilosophy] "So, I'm explaining the idea behind it, don't shoot the messenger: homosexuality is inherently hedonistic."
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[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]HeyHeatherMarket Anarchist 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]AL3X_j_MNo Gods, No Roads, No Cuckolds[S] -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)