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The strongest victims in the world (dailymaverick.co.za)

SomeBloke が 投稿

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[–]SomeBloke[S] -6ポイント-5ポイント  (25子コメント)

A man beats up his wife for decades and one day she no longer smashes plates but throws one at him instead. I don't think that makes him a victim.

[–]corny88 2ポイント3ポイント  (24子コメント)

Or...

A man beats up his wife for decades and one day she no longer smashes plates but throws one at his kid. Does that not make the kid a victim?

Point being, the plate hits the wrong person, and also hits the window, shattering it, and now everyone steps in the glass.

[–]SomeBloke[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (23子コメント)

Yeah, if it was the kid that had stood by watching with a smirk on its face, idly benefiting from all its dad's abuse and decided not to do anything about it. And then later claimed "but I didn't even hit her!"

[–]safric 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

Unfortunately for you, yes, anybody that is the victim of violence is a victim. I'm so sorry for your broken world view.

If this woman kills anyone, she is still going to jail.

[–]SomeBloke[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (14子コメント)

Years getting beaten up and she only throws a plate at you. Stop whining.

[–]corny88 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

You completely missed the point of misdirected anger and hatred.

[–]SomeBloke[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

You completely missed the point about playing the victim

[–]corny88 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

How can the kid "play" the victim if he had no part in the beatings? A was caused by B, now you blame C.

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Like I pointed out, there's a limitation to the analogy. And anyway, in that scenario it would be the mother's child throwing a plate at the father's. But now it's all becoming abstract and the simplicity of the analogy no longer explains the crux of a complex issue. The point is, white kids still benefit from apartheid. It doesn't even matter if they were born after 94. Or yesterday even. Yet, here they are claiming to be the victims in this whole messy scenario, one which they have supported through their silence, inaction, and sometimes even, blatantly, voices and action.

I don't hear the kids trying to correct the injustice of the abused mother, I just hear them crying about a plate.

[–]clicking_xhosa 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

At a certain point there will be no more white guilt left for you to try and squeeze. Then you'll perhaps realise that whilst you were blaming and pointing fingers, feeling sorry for yourself and throwing a tantrum other people - Indian , white , coloured have continued with looking to the future, working hard and building up their "homes" (instead of burning) for their children.

[–]safric 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

If she kills someone with that plate, she's off to jail. I'm so sorry.

The only sensible thing to do is to leave, place charges with the police, and get on with her own life.

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's her house. And her husband's a police officer.

Fuck, this is a great mini drama.

[–]safric 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Still the same! If she kills her husband and he is a police officer, she is going to get the book thrown at her with an even longer prison stay. Who owns the house is irrelevant.

She has to seek legal help and go through the police, courts and law. Taking matters into her own hands will end badly for her. There's cases like this all the time.

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

She seeks legal help… docket goes missing. Husband gets a phone call from a colleague and beats her for trying to go to cops.

I'm not even worried about extrapolating the analogy anymore, I'm just writing the plot for my next episode. Keep 'em coming.

[–]safric 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

She phones LifelineSA and contacts POWA for support. They get her moved to a safe house and help her with legal proceedings.

[–]corny88 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

The kid was 3 years old when all this happened. He had no part in it, although he understands now that what happened was wrong. He can't go back in time to fix the sins of his father, although he is committed to not beating his own wife.

Yet you still label him as a wife-beater?

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

You seriously trying to insinuate that you didn't benefit from apartheid or you just pointing out the obvious limitation of the analogy?

[–]corny88 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

How do you know that the kid gained anything from apartheid or not? Some other kid in the neighbourhood had, now you assume all the kids did?

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Are you white? Were you raised in South Africa? Your parents benefited from Apartheid. You now enjoy those benefits and privileges that you have over non white South Africans. Unless there's a massive change in this country, your children will enjoy the benefits of that too. If, understanding all that, you are content with the status quo then you are the kid that silently approved the wife getting beaten.

[–]corny88 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are making the assumption that I am white, and that all whites benefit now from a past regime. I am not disputing that there are many that does, only that you are saying that everyone does, which is not true. You are also ignoring the fact that many whites do want to uplift blacks, but in order to to that, they have to go though their regular working routine, because they support millions by paying taxes. Just because they aren't protesting in the street, does not mean they are content with the status quo, nor does it mean that they are not helping.

So, if a white child does not do his part in school, gets involved in drugs, crime, etc. then it is his own failure. If he works hard, succeeds, then he is an apartheid beneficiary? If a black child does not do his part in school, gets involved in drugs, crime, etc. then it is because of apartheid. If he works hard, succeeds, then it is because of his own efforts? This seems like a double standard hey?

So, how does burning down buildings of learning help to raise the privilege of non-whites? I.e. back to our analogy, if the wife burns down her whole house, how does that help? The family now moves to a crappier place with worse living standards, causing the man to beat his wife more out of frustration.

[–]SomeBloke[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah, I thought I asked if you were white. It is a double standard because the country is built on a double standard created by apartheid. Ever noticed how a white kid "falls" into drugs and crime but a black kid "rises" out of his situation. Those are pretty telling verbs.

The burning of buildings isn't constructive, it's an expression of anger. And that anger stems directly from a life that hasn't improved significantly since democracy because racism is still systematic in our country.

[–]corny88 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, those verbs are telling, because they refer to the average situation, which I already agreed to is skewed towards whites. However, that should tell you that both races has potential (again, may favour whites a tad more). However, blind anger and hatred towards the people helping in their perceived silence is now ruining the potential of everyone, especially the already disadvantaged, because it is destructive (figuratively and literally). This creates more anger from the attacked group, and back and forth and so on. I can just reiterate my point that misdirected anger is NOT the solution.

The large majority of white people are NOT trying to oppress black people, even if you perceive it as such. Just the same as the large majority of blacks do not want to murder all whites. The vocal minority is speaking loudly, spreading hate, fear, twisted truths and whole lies... and we are all listening.