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Meta[Meta]Let's talk about yesterday's removal situation and what needs to change moving forward (self.hearthstone)

Upper ManagementMeoang[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

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[–]chalo1227 11ポイント12ポイント  (37子コメント)

Ok, well why would you ban reynad for viewing reddit on stream? that is stupid. He was just venting as you said, as he does always.

I was live and as you asume none one asked the chat to do it, but someone has the idea, did the post, and copy pasta it in the chat, so twitch as a hive mind follow the one idea.

Reynas is not responsible for this, nor the fact he show the sub in stream caused that, the dank nature of twitch chat did, and i bet you like 60% of any streamer is subbed here, so we dont need to be shown the reddit to know. And as said someone posted the link to the tread they created so even if reynad didnt show the sub this would have happened.

Why would you say that reynad content is on the way to be banned? he did not made any of the posts nor commented on them , at most he upvoted a couple of the comments, it is so weird to say that , feels like you are treatening him. And that does feels weird to say, especially in public, and well you cant control what he does in his stream, none of the reddit mods have power there, so you are trying to control what he does and doesnt cause migth be bad for you guys?

I mean , i really dont see why to say that, feels like removing his freedom on his stream because mods say so, yes you are a mod, but reddit is a free place, and you cant say to people dont to share the freking reddit, bacause that is the final objective of reddit, that the community goes there and know whats happening, yeah , delete the spam, that was ok and of course i saw it comming, those were senseless posts, just meant to well be twitch chat. But never you can ban nor reynad or his content because he showed the reddit on stream. That would be a dictatorship (and also other streamers has done it, like Reckful,Amaz,ChanmanV).

There is no rule against that, and you can make that, because , a mod job, is to modderate inside the subreddit, not on twitch or what people do with the sub.

[–]ManInTheHat 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

The reason they need him to not show those threads on stream is because it constitutes vote brigading, which is against Reddits sitewide rules and can have heavy repercussions up to and including this entire subreddit being in danger of being banned. Reddit has, in the past, placed sitewide bans on any external links to content from sources known to vote brigade -- it was a big deal in /r/leagueoflegends a while back because even doing something as simple as tweeting the Reddit thread of a news article can constitute vote brigading. It's not a mod bias against Reynad, it's them doing what's best for the subreddit.

[–]chalo1227 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

As said, other streamers have done this, but this is the 1st time i see a public treat about it. I understand the reddit wide rules, but then again, why not say that to him on private, or not in a treatening way. And again, it is not the 1st time this happens on a HS stream.

[–]IceBlue 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because this isn't the first time there has been drama related to him caused by him calling out reddit on his stream. I'm not saying Reynad is the bad guy here and that he needs to be punished. I think he honestly didn't think about how his actions on his streams would turn a mob of followers to spam reddit. This is basically how it goes (and I'm not sure how it actually started but here's the cycle):

1) Reynad has something removed from Reddit or someone does something that he feels is unfair against him, like someone else getting preferential treatment that he didn't get or whatever. This could be similar to how sometimes decent threads get lost in the ether due to not getting enough upvotes while shitty threads or reposts (of the same content as the one that never hit critical mass) get tons of upvotes.

2) Reynad complains about it on his stream

3) His followers get mad and spam reddit.

4) People get mad at Reynad for the spam and make jokes about him openly.

5) Reynad gets more frustrated with reddit being biased against him because (since they are mad at him for something that he didn't intend on happening)

6) Something else happens and he complains about it on his stream

7) Repeat

At some point the cycle needs to be broken. We could as a community, grow up and not make stupid jokes at Reynad's expense but it's hard to control a community. The mods could be more judicial about mean comments about streamers (or any threads about streamers at all) which I don't think anyone wants. Reynad's followers can grow up and not take up their pitchforks whenever their favorite streamer seemingly gets slighted. Reynad could tell his followers not to brigade reddit since it makes him look bad rather than actually help him like they seem to intend. Reynad could stop showing reddit threads on his stream which whether or not he intended on happening causes his followers to jump on reddit to defend him, thus breaking reddit rules.

If it was the first time this happened, I can see them not making a big deal about it, but this has happened multiple times and I feel bad about how it goes down as an outside observer because I see that he honestly feels slighted by this subreddit which when he brings it up makes his followers attack reddit which makes the subreddit (not necessarily the mods) increasingly biased against him which in turn contributes to his feeling of hostility towards him coming from the subreddit.

[–]cgmcnama 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not viewing the stream which wouldn't affect the subreddit but the indirect brigading that occurs. TotaBiscuit did far less and got admonished by the Reddit Admins.

Reddit is indirectly (or directly) responsible for this and it isn't the first instance. TotalBiscuit didn't ask for votes but he did post to Twitter asking for support. Pretty much akin to showing it on Twitch and asking for support or complaining about an issue. In TB case, it is fine to discuss it or talk about Reddit on Twitter but not fine to link it. Showing the image and the post on stream is pretty much linking it.

This subreddit isn't perfect but it is pretty free of moderation considering its size. The issue is brigading and that is a bannable offense. Instead of a direct ban they are asking to not show the Reddit post on stream to curb indirect brigading. That is, in essence, part of moderating.