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Socialism/Communism/Anti-capitalism? (self.blackladies)

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[–]darlingdarby -10ポイント-9ポイント  (58子コメント)

I don't care how many degrees Marx has, I wholeheartedly disagree with him. The communist experiment in Russia did not work out because of human nature. I really encourage you to do heavy research on Russia post-Marx and then you can come up with your own conclusion. I read Marx, I researched a lot of Russian history and especially the leaders from his school of thought, and I found that his theories did not match up with reality. I'm really okay with disagreeing with Marx lol.

[–]lovelybone93 10ポイント11ポイント  (57子コメント)

That is the most shallow argument I've ever heard. First off, the USSR never claimed to be communist (the communist party was called so due to its aims) since that would imply the abolition of the nation state, classes, commodity production, and money. It got to the lowest level of socialism in an imperfect way, deformed in large part due to active opposition against it from the entirety of the capitalist and imperialist powers.

I've also read up on the USSR and determined that Soviet socialism was a success. Going from a backwater feudal shithole to having a superpower that beat the Nazi Wehrmacht due to rapid industrialization, eliminating illiteracy, doubling life expectancy, ending reoccurring famines with collectivization and better agricultural methods, and being the pioneers of space in the span of a generation is a success. GDP grew without fail, except for WWII from its inception to when Gorbachev implemented perestroika, the liberalization of the economy with full employment. Perestroika brought bread lines, and the halting of growth. It helped with the establishment of other socialist countries. Life expectancy in the USSR eclipsed that of the US in the 1960s. The transition from the USSR to the Russian Federation and the former SSRs brought a decline in life expectancy, GDP, an increase in poverty, homelessness, communicable diseases and avoidable deaths.

Lenin is still revered according to polls in Russia only behind Leonid Brezhnev, (with Mikhail Gorbachev reviled) about half of Russians want the USSR back, and many former satellites' citizens want socialism back.

Furthermore, the USSR wasn't the only example of socialism. Cuba has eliminated illiteracy, child malnutrition, hunger, mother to child HIV transmission, has universal healthcare, education, a high HDI, education gratis that's been highly acclaimed for all students at all levels, a life expectancy on par with the US and sends teams of doctors to countries in dire need due to natural disasters. This is without the benefits of imperialism, slavery, and the loss of the USSR as its biggest trading partner and the imperialist US embargo.

E: fixed some things.

[–]RhombusBlue 4ポイント5ポイント  (54子コメント)

I've also read up on the USSR and determined that Soviet socialism was a success. Going from a backwater feudal shithole to having a superpower that beat the Nazi Wehrmacht due to rapid industrialization, eliminating illiteracy, doubling life expectancy, ending reoccurring famines with collectivization and better agricultural methods, and being the pioneers of space in the span of a generation is a success.

Mmhmm...

[–]lovelybone93 4ポイント5ポイント  (53子コメント)

Red Army's role in WWII:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/05/08/dont-forget-how-the-soviet-union-saved-the-world-from-hitler/

http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/stalins-victory-the-soviet-union-and-world-war-ii/

Industrialization:

eng.globalaffairs.ru/number/The-Russian-Federation-Before-and-After-the-Soviet-Union-15077

Life expectancy doubling in the Soviet Union before decline due to alcohol abuse:

m.ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/35/6/1384.full

Illiteracy being eliminated:

http://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED321045

And sputnik being launched in 1956 means the USSR was the first into space, they also developed other space race technology.

[–]RhombusBlue 2ポイント3ポイント  (52子コメント)

Yeah...sorry if that came off sarcastic (I was agreeing). Thanks for the links!

[–]lovelybone93 4ポイント5ポイント  (51子コメント)

Oh, I thought you were disagreeing and wanted to back these claims up with proof without being a dick.

Some data about the transition (don't like their analysis of the PRC (plus the PRC does still have ownership of the MoP in public private partnerships, though I disagree with their method) due to their not understanding it well enough with an outsiders look, but oh well):

www.science20.com/alchemist/lessons_economic_transition_soviet_russia_and_communist_china

A good materialist analysis of the USSR (they forget to cite the CIA, but it does have citations. The CIA stats of the USSR show it growing without fail until perestroika and at one point would be on track to overtake the US):

https://gowans.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/

[–]RhombusBlue 3ポイント4ポイント  (50子コメント)

Thanks again...as much as I do take issue with White-dude lead thinking on these concepts (edit: they mean jack if you aren't considered human to have them applied to you in the first place), I also mistrust American accounts of success of non-capitalist systems, even by their own standards.

[–]lovelybone93 2ポイント3ポイント  (49子コメント)

Sure, largely because they're trying to promote their preferred system which nets them privileges in life. I will fully admit the USSR wasn't perfect and they could've done certain things better, but this is because I have the benefit of hindsight being 20/20 (no matter how bad my actual eyesight is <_<).

Below in one of my responses to darlingdarby, I put some people of color who have used Marxism and its variants and the core tenets of Marxism and variants.

As a white-passing Nuyorican guy, I definitely get privilege (though not to the same extent as fully white people) and shouldn't be speaking for the entirety of the oppressed. That should be done by people of color, women, GSRM people and anyone else of the oppressed proletariat.

[–]RhombusBlue 1ポイント2ポイント  (48子コメント)

Saw that response...was going to comment that a lot the PoC in those situations were functioning from positions of Whiteness (or at least working to obtain them), but still...I get your point.

[–]lovelybone93 1ポイント2ポイント  (47子コメント)

Sure, but their objective was to get people of color on the same status as whites, removing privilege. I do need some more study on people of color and the liberation struggle.

For one of the best defenses of socialism tearing away at racism, I remember Paul Robeson's testimony to the House of Un-American Activities Committee on his visits to the USSR.