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Life with ISIS is ‘really hard,’ discovers Swedish teen who joined jihadists (washingtonpost.com)

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[–]thatwebkid 235ポイント236ポイント  (191子コメント)

You don't turn a sex slave into a fighter. They would keep him/her as a sex slave and them kill him/her. I'm very angry this girl isn't in jail yet!

[–]brtt3000 46ポイント47ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a fighter, but suicide bomber.

[–]ohmygodnotagain 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

If we put stupid teenagers in jail, there'd be no one left to wipe my ass for me when I'm old and pathetic.

[–]UnisexJesus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's not stupid people doing that either, it takes a special person to do that for crappy pay.

[–]pnilz 65ポイント66ポイント  (134子コメント)

We don't put kids in jail and we rarely put people under 21 in jail.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy 40ポイント41ポイント  (61子コメント)

You guys don't put anyone in jail.

[–]Shitty_Bollocks 55ポイント56ポイント  (60子コメント)

Well most in countries jails aren't big business

[–]Koshercrab 80ポイント81ポイント  (41子コメント)

Right, but joining and aiding a terrorist organization is a legitimate reason to at least put someone in jail, no matter their age.

[–]Soutine 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Have you even watched the video? She's obviously a child, ignorant of the world and with a low capacity for reason, being easily manipulated to follow her boyfriend. And it would make you feel better if this kid got locked up now... She didn't even know what ISIS was.

[–]Ghonaherpasiphilaids [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As another commenter mentioned. She's from one of the most educated nations in the world, ISIS is constantly in the media these days. How did she not know what they or at the very least Islam were? Is she mentally handicapped or has she just been living under a rock with no connection to anything her entire life.

Being dumb doesn't excuse being punished for doing dumb things. She joined a militant terrorist organization. One that has claimed war with all western democratic countries. What she did would be considered an act of treason in a lot of places.

[–]Koshercrab [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

We were all ignorant and mostly gullible kids at one point. Almost none of us joined a militant group.

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is what's bothering me about everyone defending her actions. If she was maybe 10, 11, 12 - an actual child - I could understand, but a 16 year old girl living in a well-educated country not knowing of a prominent jihadist group is hard to believe. ISIS is on the news and social media constantly. You'd have to be oblivious to not at least know of them.

[–]JaXXXuP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ignorance is not a legitimate defense.

[–]panda_gravy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do we know she aided them? All it says is that she and many other spouses/significant others follow along cause they're ignorant kids and end up wanting to go back. We don't jail the families of enemy combatants, nor do we jail the families of murderers...

Bring her back, find out everything she knows then figure out what to do from there.

[–]Levitz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

no matter their age.

Putting this girl in jail wouldn't help her or society.

[–]berserk4 -1ポイント0ポイント  (25子コメント)

What's putting her in jail gonna help?

[–]JaXXXuP [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It will avoid showing others that running to join ISIS is fine and will have 0 consequences as long as you claim ignorance.

[–]Mikhaev -1ポイント0ポイント  (23子コメント)

Have people gone fucking mad?

Jail isn't to help the inmate be rehabilitated. At least, that's not its main function. The main purpose of jail is punishment. She doesn't need to be helped, she needs to be told and shown that there are consequences for her actions.

She's sixteen years old, the Islamic State is constantly in the news and even on social media for committing atrocities, and she lives in one of the best educated countries on the planet.How did she not know what the Islamic State, or even Islam itself, is? Chances are she did. And she shouldn't be able to get off scot-free by pleading ignorance.

[–]Jazzeki [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Jail isn't to help the inmate be rehabilitated. At least, that's not its main function. The main purpose of jail is punishment.

well congratulations but this is directly in opposition to what the swedish belive.

this is what sounds mad.

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

That's wonderful. I'm not indicting the Swedish justice system by itself, but the people supporting the lack of punishment here on the comment thread.

I'm not a Swedish citizen, so I'm not here to change their policy, but there are commenters on here who likely aren't Swedish denouncing any sort of criminal charges against her. These people also have a say in this country through voting or perhaps even holding a position of power in the justice system now or in the future, and their views are maddening.

[–]Jazzeki [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

and their views are maddening.

as i said i find your view maddening.

again as others have pointed out repeatedly this serves no purpose other than makeing your justice boner feel good. it doesn't help society heck it actually hurts society as whole.

[–]eurodditor [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

she needs to be told and shown that there are consequences for her actions.

Dude, she was a young girl living in the Islamic State. You can be pretty sure she faced many painful consequences for her actions already. These guys aren't exactly the most courteous guys on earth, nor are they exactly rabid feminists... A Swedish jail would probably be borderline funtime-vacancies compared to what she most likely underwent in Iraq.

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why should she receive a more relaxed punishment than a male her age; because she might have had it harder?

I'm sure a sixteen year old "boy" going from Sweden to the Middle East to fight for a radical jihadist group would face the same sort of culture shock. They would be subjected to being shot at, sexually assaulted by members of the group, etc., yet we would likely give him a harsher punishment.

[–]GoodCatWarriorName [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The idea that jail is to punish and not rehabilitate is so toxic. It feeds this need people have for justice, but doesn't actually make the world any better. Shouldn't the point of everything be to make the world better?

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The idea that a girl who joins a terrorist organization should not receive any sort of punishment via detainment is the toxic idea. We condemn these people to death with drones and airstrikes, but it's somehow inhumane and toxic to put them in a jail cell.

How are you making the world better by not punishing those who commit crimes, especially ones where the subject joins an organization which loots, rapes, and beheads its victims?

[–]GoodCatWarriorName [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She claims that she didn't know what they were. Is there evidence that she gave them any aid whatsoever? Is there evidence that punishing her would actually deter people from going over there in the future? Most people who go over there are teenagers, who are famous for not recognizing consquences, or zealots who would go anyway. If there was any way to show that jailing her would actually be a deterrent, then it would be a good idea. But I don't see that as the case.

As someone else said, the most obvious thing it would do is discourage people from leaving ISIS. The choice between ISIS and home is much easier than ISIS and prison.

Consequences for the sake of consequences are part of the reason that the prison system in America is out of control. Punishment for punishment's sake is a waste of resources that we could be spending on making the world a better place. A place where imperialistic regimes don't meddle in nations, destabilizing them and pumping them full of weapons, giving rise to groups of angry children with guns who have very little besides religion to cling to, which attracts more angry children, who we punish for punishment's sake.

[–]vampire_kitten [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Prison's main function is the keep society safe from dangerous people. It is not to punish people, if it was, then we could just reinstate torture.

[–]JaXXXuP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That doesn't make sense, considering most countries lock people up for things such as tax evasion.

[–]vampire_kitten [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thought we were talking about Sweden here? And yes tax evasion is harmful for the society.

[–]ButcherPetesMeats [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And she is a dangerous person. I suspect she knew full well what ISIS was a joined anyway and is lying now.

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

No, it's also to punish. When you "serve your time", it's because you've done something wrong and are paying for it by being incarcerated.

No one is saying to torture her.

[–]vampire_kitten [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

'Serve your time' is a phrase only used by people who believe that jail time is to punish. They think of it as the price you pay to do something illegal. It's not. It's for rehabilitation, to be able to release the person into society again.

[–]milenkoIncarnate [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't agree with your logic for putting children in jail. If she had been older and had a more mature state of cognitive thinking then sure.

[–]Mikhaev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She's a sixteen-year-old girl living in a well-educated and well-connected country. That isn't a child. When I was her age, and that wasn't that long ago, I would have never thought about joining al-Qaeda, which is roughly equivalent to ISIS in terms of publicity and poor reputation internationally.

You have to be utterly oblivious to not realize that the Islamic State is a group of bad guys when it's plastered all over the news, social media, and elsewhere.

I'm not saying throw her in jail and torture her. However, some form of punishment is necessary. Either a sentence or a large fine, and the latter is being lax. Someone just two years older than her would be considered a terrorist. Why should she not be punished at all with a jail sentence?

[–]Jazzeki [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

what would it help exactly to put her in jail?

jail over here is simply not ment to be a punishment.

if she did it with intent to help sure putting her in jail to stop her doing so further i get. but you gain nothing by putting her in jail.

[–]fraxinuscavum [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It would get her off the streets before she joins the IRA

[–]Catnip645 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That is not strictly true. In fact not true at all.

[–]SpaceSteak -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

If a child soldier who saw his mother get raped and father murdered, then was forced to take drugs to get addicted aids a terrorist organization, you'd have to be one heartless SOB to say they deserve to be in jail.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

The world laughs at Europe's jail sentences. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/25/world/europe/anders-behring-breivik-murder-trial.html

[–]Fs0i 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just to make it clear: Even when he got 21 years, he'll never leave a jail again.

After 21 years the punishment-part ends, but he'd still be a danger to the public (and vice versa) so he'll stay locked up.

[–]qtx 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Opposed to how much the world laughs at America's ridiculous jail sentences.

[–]ZeroAntagonist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The best part is that he put in a complaint recently that his Playstation 2 and the games he has aren't good enough and that he deserves at least a PS3.

"Breivik sent a list of 12 demands to prison authorities in November, including easier communication with the outside world and a PlayStation 3 to replace the PlayStation 2 in his cell, because the PlayStation 3 offers more suitable games."

[–]Biirke [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you really Think he is getting out after 21 years? Read the article, smart guy.

[–]Shitty_Bollocks 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

He'll probably get psychological help instead of being thrown in solitary as well! Ha!

[–]ZeroAntagonist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They are already torturing him! Just look at this:

""Other inmates have access to adult games while I only have the right to play less interesting kids games. One example is "Rayman Revolution", a game aimed at three-year-olds.""

[–]OhLookANewAccount -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

He killed 77 people. Put a bullet in his head and be done with it.

[–]Shitty_Bollocks -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Most societies don't operate like that. Why make him a martyr?

[–]OhLookANewAccount -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not making him a martyr. It's not wasting tax payer dollars to keep a monster alive.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Most societies do operate exactly like that. Most European countries don't, after Nazism, but the rest of the world absolutely does not feel the same way you do.

[–]Shitty_Bollocks 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Keep sending people to jail for smoking pot, you're doing god's work.

[–]marriedmygun [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Most countries don't have the amount of senseless crime as the U.S.

[–]InferiorAmerica -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is because those countries have superior societies to America's.

[–]Shitty_Bollocks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can't believe i got my words up muddled

[–]thatwebkid 5ポイント6ポイント  (66子コメント)

Juvenile detention, instead of jail. If you want to end terrorism you need to have zero tolerance against it. Who's to say the girl isn't still working for ISIS with or w/o her wish. Do we just trust them by default? Maybe they kept her kid to blackmail her and turn her into an informant or potential sucide bomber.

[–]ytilartuen_teN 59ポイント60ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you want to end terrorism you need to have zero tolerance against it.

The bad part about this approach is that you don't always know when someone will commit a terrorist attack and you'd just lock people up purely on some weak act or even just suspicion.

Zero-tolerance doesn't work. It makes you blind, narrow-sighted and hurt innocent people.

[–]CakeBandit 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just look at America's Zero Tolerance policies. They worked out great.

[–]Reap_it_and_Weep 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We don't tolerate comments like that in America, commie.

[–]yo_radical_one -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

America has never had a zero tolerance policy towards terrorism.

Absolute ruthlessness does work:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-01-07/news/mn-13892_1_soviets

[–]Wootery 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Technically zero tolerance doesn't affect the burden of proof.

[–]thfuran 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But what it generally does affect is where the line is drawn. And it usually moves it entirely too far to the "this behavior is reasonable, stop arresting/killing people for it" side.

[–]curveballed 88ポイント89ポイント  (24子コメント)

Except it's very well noted that juvenile detention does more harm than good for a large majority of children. Do you expect that a normal juvenile detention center to be able to deradicalize a young person? Do you know what goes in to trying to even attempt that? There is plenty of research suggesting that all those places do is make people angrier and worse than they were beforehand.

[–]marr 49ポイント50ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's also very well noted that zero tolerance policies in general do more harm than good for the large majority of the everything.

[–]fancyhatman18 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah... but this is treason. That is normally a death penalty type crime.

She went out to support the enemies of her country.

[–]PotsyWife -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get your point, and I agree, but what is the alternative? If someone commits a crime, they must receive punishment, no matter the age. If not Prison/Juvenile detention etc then what? A slap on the wrist and a course of counselling might help a few kids turn their lives around, but I doubt that would solve the problem in the vast majority.

[–]TotallyNotACultist -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

well, it you put a repeated offender in jail for a long time, he/she cannot commit any more crimes during this time

[–]KapiTod 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

A shit tonne of therapy would do more help, but it's expensive and it's going on either the state or the family. State won't want to pay and family might not be able to. Also I'm sure someone would bitch and whine that a "terrorist" is getting off so easy.

[–]curveballed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think a shit-tonne of therapy would still cost a fraction of the price of jail though, and I'm pretty sure Sweden does do that type of thing through their healthcare system don't they?

[–]ADskiner [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or they were just shitty people raised by shitty people, and once surrounded by other shitty people, they could finally express their full shittiness. Don't find ways to let shitty people continue shitty shit.

[–]WhiskeyWeekends -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

She fucking joined ISIS, man. It's not like she was into petty vandalism, went to juivey, and came out a drug dealer. She volunteered to join a group that knowingly murders people in brutal ways. The fact that none of these people that join ISIS and come back aren't just thrown in prison for life or straight up executed is beyond me.

[–]Derwos 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

She volunteered to join a group that knowingly murders people in brutal ways.

That's the point, she claimed she knew absolutely nothing about the group but joined anyway because her boyfriend wanted to.

[–]barathornnnn 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you honestly believe that? She's 16 not 5.

[–]WhiskeyWeekends 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't accidently join ISIS. Wouldn't any normal person, including a teenage girl, get the fuck out of there once you see a bunch of dudes with AKs? Being "in love" isn't an excuse to join a terrorist organization.

[–]curveballed 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm not in any way condoning what she did, what I'm arguing against is the mentioned method of dealing with them. It doesnt work, it's proven not to work. It costs $220'000 per year to keep a young person behind bars, multiple that by the amount of years she has left in her life. Do you want to be a part of paying that bill? Or would you rather give this young person a chance at rehabilitation through other means? We know that young people are heavily influenced by those around them (her boyfriend perhaps?), and they have the best chance of being deradicalized. But not when they're serving time in institutions that don't give a damn about rehab.

[–]WhiskeyWeekends 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I get what you're saying and while you're technically correct, i just don't agree with it or like it. I know I'm in the minority here but i hate how soft we are on these people, that we're basically at war with, and their supporters/sympathizers.

I instantly have a total mistrust of this girl and i'm finding it extremely hard to believe that it's all a misunderstanding. I'm more prone to believe that she's lying about the whole thing and there's something darker going on here.

You talk about rehabilitation but if you take someone that swears up and down that they aren't radicalized, how do you rehabilitate them?

Also, while we're on that, Muslims basically have a word in the koran that basically says that you can lie and trick non-believers into believing you're an ally in order to protect or advance Islam. The word is "taqiya".

So, to me, this whole thing stinks and the only safe bet is to lock them away. Except that you can't imprison someone because you don't trust them so only time will tell, i guess.

[–]curveballed 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah I think it's one of those old paradoxes (not sure this is the right phrase?). If she does something really bad, like for example, join ISIS, then the best thing to do is to treat her with more compassion than punishment. At the end of the day, she is a child. Children do dumb shit, especially when they think it's for love. You may be correct, and it may blow up in their faces (pardon the pun), but that's the same as saying "this person assaulted someone, and there's a chance they may do it again, so best not ever release them". That's my mentality anyway.

[–]WhiskeyWeekends 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most kids when they screw up do it by drinking too much or smoking weed and getting caught or theft or get in fights or whatever. They don't join an international terrorist organization. Haha. Sure, there have been instances where teenage girls do some horrific shit for their bfs (murder) but how fucking gullible and stupid do you have to be to not only never hear about ISIS but any terrorist organization at all and then JOIN them? Like, what terrorists and Arabic dudes with AKs do isn't a secret.

Edit: Also, she not a child or a kid. She is 16-years-old. That's 2 years away from being a legal adult. 16 year olds usually have jobs, learn about paying taxes, start driving, go to school and learn about things like war and history, and are having sex. These aren't kid things. 10 year olds know about things like guns and war and shit like that. 16 is too old to be as dumb as her.

[–]curveballed 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the big issue here is that the guy (according to the article) sounds more like a predator than a groomer. He did everything that he should have. He slowly got her used to him talking about ISIS, which made her more comfortable with discussing it, and eventually made the jump into going with him to Syria. Again, from the article, so maybe a grain of salt is needed, it reads more as though she wasn't really the instigator of this move, but rather a smitten teen who wanted to please her guy, then realised she made a shitty mistake.

[–]JuliusV2 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Except it's very well noted that juvenile detention does more harm than good for a large majority of children.

No shit. No one gives a fuck. She joined ISIS. Fuck rehabilitation, she can rot.

[–]curveballed 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would you like to foot the bill for that? $200'000 per year, every year, until death? That's more than you'll earn in your lifetime. She's a child. Children are the easiest to rehabilitate, it makes no sense at all to not even bother trying.

[–]BoomBlasted 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Then again, didn't know what she was getting into, as far as we know. Chill, bitter fella.

[–]psu5020 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ignorance is a terrible defense.

[–]JuliusV2 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry, I didn't know that the bullet would kill him :( Let me go? please? please? :(

[–]BoomBlasted 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You didn't read the article, huh?

[–]BobNelson1939USA -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm with you, friend. This stupid piece of Euro Trash belongs in whatever Iraqi garbage disposal they put her baby in. Fuck her.

[–]kkunjujiki 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should tell the Euro Trash to meet you in Tampa bro.

[–]nexostar 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are seriously overestimating how strict sweden is towards ISIS members. They can just come back here and unless the police gets hold of videos of them killing people (happened recently) its not gonna be any consequences.

[–]TheRealMrJoe 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah because everyone knows how effective zero tolerance methods are /s

[–]Sondrx 8ポイント9ポイント  (11子コメント)

A big difference between American and scandenavian prison sentences is that, in America, you imprison people to punish them, and to make an example.

In scandenavia, the idea is that revenge is a downwards spiral, therefore we only imprison someone to make an example, not to punish.

Imprisoning her will probably not gain anyone anything. And it would ruin that girls chances at growing to be a better person.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

in America, you imprison people to punish them, and to make an example.

In scandenavia, the idea is that revenge is a downwards spiral, therefore we only imprison someone to make an example, not to punish.

You're saying that you effectively do the same exact thing America does, but nicer?

[–]Sondrx [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes.

no, what I am saying is that in America, you take "vengence" at criminals, in scandenavia, the idea is that crime comes from desperate people, not necessarily bad people. And therefore prison is only to discourage others from commiting crimes, and NOT to take vengence on the criminals.

Hence 24 year maximum penalty, better prisons and less re-occuring criminals.

But Ill add, I am clearly bias.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Was Anders Behring Breivik desperate?

I thought taking vengeance on criminals was the deterrent. It's like society saying:

Don't steal cars. If you try to steal cars you will spend an inordinate amount of time with no freedom. Don't murder people. If you murder people you will forfeit your entire life to us as you have decided your victim forfeits their life to you.

[–]Waynumb -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be fair, from what ive seen our prisons are a lot nicer.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

How much money do you get to keep of your total paycheck?

e: Haha! Real fast downvote, and no reply.

[–]you-okay-buddy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'd think less, but on the other hand if they get cancer there's no chance it could put their family on the street.

[–]CRUSHdegeneracy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's also worth considering. Do you suppose that's why their prisons are so much nicer, and is that a reason to concern yourself over how much luxury a murderer gets while he spends the rest of his life on your paycheck? Staying on task is difficult, but try for me.

[–]Rule34_Annie 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

She wouldn't gain anything from prison? Oh no poor girl, personally I think certain actions deserve consequences.

[–]HowBoutCondor -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Unfortunately she didn't get her Darwin Award. She's not going to become a better person, she's already a fully formed adult. Her second chance is an unnecessary burden on humanity.

[–]cavelioness 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's 16 so no, she's not a fully formed adult.

[–]Sondrx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I dont concider teen to be fully formed adult.

But each to their own.

[–]Adios7 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh c'mon, she was just 15 at the time. You don't gain anything by putting her into jail. The kid needs to be deradicalised

[–]pnilz 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

We don't have youth prisons either, we have something called LVU which is kinda like youth treatment camps. I do think we should be hard on terrorism and such but in this case I can't say for sure if she's a perpetrator or a victim.

[–]DreamsOfNylathotep 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Her child was a victim, not her.

[–]socialisthippie 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can you possibly even imagine that you know that to be true?

What are the exact criteria for child soldiers in africa to be victims or perpetrators? Do they somehow manifest from one into another at some point? How do you define that?

Rhetorical questions aside... How could you possibly presuppose that a 16 year old kid would be able to maintain custody and properly care for a newborn infant in an actual war zone where she is essentially being held captive? Anyone could have taken that child from her at any time and she could have done nothing about it.

I can't even understand how or why someone would be this callous.

[–]jamespo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Terrible analogy. Best case scenario is that she's retarded. Let's hope she doesn't have any more kids

[–]Creshal 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why not both?

Seriously, she's a fucking kid.

[–]cavelioness 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's still a child herself. Ignorant 15-year-old from a foster home, ran away with an older boyfriend, just some poor dumb kid. She and her baby are both victims.

[–]koeleskab 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We got a republican here folks!

[–]aykcak 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What happened to "innocent until proven otherwise" ?

[–]justwondrinnn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only thing we need to have a zero tolerance policy for is zero tolerance policies.

[–]d_migster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because that worked for the War on Drugs.

[–]wht_smr_blk_mt_side 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

But shes a gurl...therefore only sweet and innocent.....she should thank her lucky stars for sexism

[–]jkeller4000 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you want to end terrorism you need to have zero tolerance against it

this is how you force people who mad a bad choice stay terrorists.

I would rather have one young lady change her mind and come back to civilization,

than have one young lady thin. either i stay here and forever be thirsty. or i go home and spent the rest of my life in jail. well either way is no life i might as well strap a bomb to my chest and kill 5 people along with myself, no jail time no thirsty. no need to worry about my ipod any more.

you see zero tolerance will create more extreme terrorists, like begets like! extreme measures cause extreme measures!

[–]karadan100 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You sound very paranoid.

[–]AppleandMangoJuice -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who the hell is a 16 year old girl going to inform on?

[–]DrPoopNstuff -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they probably took the baby out of her and put a bomb in her belly. ISIS:"You had twins. The other one wasn't ready, yet. We're going to leave him in for another month. Be sure to give birth in Europe!" She seems stupid enough to believe anything.

[–]koeleskab -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hold your horses, cowboy. This here is the civilized part of the western world.

[–]Theemuts -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

uvenile detention, instead of jail. If you want to end terrorism you need to have zero tolerance against it.

Just like kids who are suspended for bringing plastic cutlery to school? Zero-tolerance policies are intended to make idiots feel safe, are you an idiot?

[–]DarkMoon99 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

WELL THAT'S JUST BULLSHIT!

[–]Darktidemage 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

just guillotine her.

then other people will hear "girl joined isis, we cut her head off" and they will look up what ISIS is.

[–]angrypotato1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Young racial minorities would disagree

[–]Jirad -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bearded children, luls.

[–]TrollJack 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

You can't fix stupid with jail, though...

[–]qvrock [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You can protect others from stupid though. Also, for most people lack of restrictions/motivation leads to lack of responsibility.

[–]SquatAngry -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Then what can ya fix stupid with? Stupid! ;)

[–]TrollJack 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nowadays though proper education about consequences isn't allowed anymore. Hundred years ago, less, it was common and people knew to behave. They got taught manners, discipline and respect. Nowadays with every new generation people grow increasingly into spoiled, decadent, egocentric, mannerless, narcissistic trash.

I don't get your joke, but what would definitely not help that girl is moving back into that illusion of a life she was living before she decided to go ISIS.

:shrugs: ranting a bit. Sorry 'bout that.

[–]SquatAngry -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Nah, it's cool, it's a good read.

Prison should be a big massive system that reducates and rehabilitates.

[–]TrollJack 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

No. When people go to prison it's too late already. The issue starts before people go there, not afterwards. And it's not restricted to criminals either. Western societies are fucked up with decadence and wealth. History time and time again has shown how that ends.

[–]SquatAngry 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So we just shoot the criminals and start again with newborns?

The education system has to work, and the economy has to provide the stability for a decent upbringing but in the cases where it's just not worked somehow there still needs to be that second chance.

[–]TrollJack [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You rather assume things into my words instead of asking for clarification or simply "How do you mean that?", so I will assume you're only interested in being right about someone being wrong, which is a complete waste of both our time.

Have a nice day and - assuming you need it - the last word.

[–]SquatAngry [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not disagreeing with you, you haven't put forth an argument or an opinion to be wrong with. All you've done is been very dismissive and then left.

You got halfway through your views on the prison systems then ranted about Western decadence for a few sentences.

I'm not saying your wrong, I'm not saying I'm right either. I just want to know where you were trying to go with all this.

[–]NotCobaltWolf -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like something Isis would say

[–]ValAichi 45ポイント46ポイント  (26子コメント)

What would putting her in jail do?

Would it deter other people from joining ISIS? - no, those who join are either fanatics or ignorant, neither of which it would effect

Would it prevent her from going back to ISIS? - no, there seems to be no chance she would go back

Would it protect society? - no, she seems unlikely to be a treat and in any case will be under observation by the security forces

Would it reduce the chance other ISIS members would defect? - yes, you're reducing any incentive others have for leaving ISIS

All in all, it seems like there is no reason to jail her except for some sort of irrelevant justice boner

[–]Shitty_Bollocks 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's definitely not a treat

[–]relevant84 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

I can't believe you're making a case for someone who committed treason to join a terrorist organization to NOT go to jail.

[–]Soutine 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a kid with no knowledge of what ISIS is. Are you being serious or did you just not watch the video?

[–]DasHeadCrapHGN 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you read the post she didn't join. She went to Syria with her BF who wanted to join. She on the other hand knew nothing of ISIS as she didn't listen to any news and was only 16. As far as she knew they were just some group. She got to Syria, found it to be a shithole and got a phone and pleaded to go back. She was rescued by the Kurds. She wasn't a Jihadist at all.

[–]royal-road [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In most places in the world jail is actually really used with the stated goal of rehabilitating criminals instead of vague justice and using them for essentially slave labor.

[–]muaddeej 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Sometimes jail (or any punishment) doesn't directly benefit society.

What it does do is act as a deterrent for others. If others see she didn't go to jail, then they know there are no consequences so they may do the same thing. If she's tried for treason, then others may think twice.

It's the same reason I don't go 120 through the middle of town. I know there are consequences if I get caught.

[–]Hjeltepojk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That sort of general deterrance depends on quite a few factors though. The general public would need to 1. Know that she was convicted and 2. Believe that they too would be convicted.

I think very few who travel to isis see themselves coming back because their ipods broke. Thus they dont really fear conviction and would not likely be deterred. Overall deterrance has low empirical support anyway beyond 'giving a decent punishment at all'. Jailing someone based only on a notion of general deterrence is usually a massive waste of resources. Outside of the US most western countries dont do that.

[–]Certal -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

What you're saying is that we should possibly ruin someone's life (by jailing them) and thus make them more likely to become a burden on society in the hopes that it deters anyone else?

The punishments for speeding on the road is not the same: it isn't likely to ruin your entire life. You get tickets. Demerit points. License suspension. Beyond that and you're reckless and risk endangering society (thus jail becomes warranted).

I'm not entirely sure if this girl really qualifies as reckless and endangering society, so to jail her (sacrafice, if you will) based on the hopes that it may deter others from doing something similar (i.e following their husband to a wartorn zone) isn't a decision to take so lightly or freely.

[–]muaddeej [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Yes, joining a terrorist organization should probably merit some hardship on your part.

Not life in prison, but being ignorant of the law or situation is no excuse.

[–]Certal [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

being ignorant of the situation

So following your husband to a foreign place you don't know is considered criminal?

Also, as it says in the video: she never joined ISIS.

[–]muaddeej [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes, we all need to have a little bit of personal responsibility.

I can't commit a crime and then say "well, I didn't know" to get out of the punishment.

[–]Certal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

  • She did not fight

  • She did not join Isis

  • She did not support Isis

  • She did support her husband

  • She did leave when she realized how deplorable the place was.

What crime did she actually commit? Treason would have had to have her actively betraying her country, but the only thing she's done is moved somewhere and then moved back.

e: I'm all for jailing reckless endangerment of society behavior for deterrence purposes, but I fail to see how jailing a 16 year old child who hasn't actually shown any signs of supporting a cause (or even knowing about that cause) will really make an effective determent. Seems more like witch hunting to me.

[–]utay_white [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Jail is meant to be a punishment. You aren't supposed to get a get out of jail free card if they feel you've already learned your lesson. Especially in a case where her brash actions left a newborn in the hands of ISIS...

[–]royal-road [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In the US maybe... In other countries it's meant to be rehabilitation.

[–]JusWalkAway -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

It would definitely affect other people from joining ISIS. Especially if it got widely reported in the media.

[–]aworkthrowaway_98765 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're assuming that the kind of people that consider joining ISIS are rational people.

[–]pimpsandpopes 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

What sort of terrible logic is that? The people who want to join and join a murderous terrorist organisation because of a fanatical ideology will not give a shit about the idea of prison.

The idea of prison as a deterrent at it's core is weak on its own let alone in this context.

[–]Insecurity_Guard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know about that. These people might have very skewed views of what joining ISIS was going to be like, but I would guess its far less likely they hold similar views about prison in their home country.

[–]Mr0z23 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

She needs to be punished for what she did.

[–]TheyAreBlooing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Punished for what? The article says she was tricked by her bf to move because she didn't know what ISIS was. She never actually became a jihadist.

[–]patricksand 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure she haven't committed any crime under Swedish laws. Maybe Syrian law or something, but do you really want her to go to a Syrian prison?

[–]shitevendor 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

It is pretty obvious that she has a mental disability of some kind. Suggesting she be jailed on the basis of that article is pretty excessive.

[–]Firefoxray 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

She Isn't in jail because she really didn't know who Isis was and just followed her boyfriend. Ignorance shouldn't be a reason for jailtime

[–]ZeroAntagonist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She was rescued from ISIS by Kurdish forces in late October, but escaped from her saviours to go back to her partner

hmmm. Did she know who ISIS was when she escaped back to them?

[–]GAF78 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Look at her. She's a dumb child. Where's the boyfriend? He was a little older and more accountable for his decision.

[–]SteveChiefy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't get it do you. It's very popular in the middle east to fuck little boys. It's a gigantic Catholic church over there.

[–]nuesuh -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

She should be decapitated

[–]Yssboern -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference between civilised countries and countries like Islamic State etc is that we don't put children in jail.

[–]JoeyPantz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you read the article? Her boyfriend knocked her up and duped her into going with him when he joined ISIS. Ignorance sucks but she should be in jail because her boyfriend basically kidnapped her and possibly had their child killed? Are you out of your mind?

[–]DasHeadCrapHGN -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Read the fucking post. She didn't join ISIS. She was a ignorant teenager who knew literally nothing about ISIS and knew very little about Islam or terrorism. Her BF said he wanted her to go with him to join and she out of loyalty said "sure!". The moment she got there she worked to get the fuck out. She hasn't committed any crimes at all.

[–]Unicornsparkledust -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why should she be in jail? She's 16 and obviously has not gotten the right education. And it's not uncommon to do stupid shit when your young. especially if someone who's a little older tells you it's a good idea. The difference is most people have parents that educate their kids and can deter them when they get stupid shitty ideas like this. I find it really really strange that adults hadn't let her know more about what's going on in the world. Most swedish kids get news updates in school. I'm swedish myself, and when I was in school, we talked briefly about the news every morning, and on fridays we had to take quizzes on what had happened in the world and in politics during the week. I am amazed at how she can be 16 and know nothing. It's a little scary. I really hope her grownups learn their lesson and educate their kids.

[–]dlsisnumerouno [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You tell them, Internet tough guy. Jail those 16 year old foster kid runaways. Serves 'em right! She should have paid closer attention in her international politics class.