4127
4128

Man burns teenage pregnant girlfriend alive because he didn't want to be a father (msn.com)

Kamodar が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]terpin 259ポイント260ポイント  (147子コメント)

"Judge Regina Alex said of Toben, who hatched the plot: “For him the crime was a solution, he wanted a free, happy life which he had control over.""

That judge's quote is so chilling, it feels like they can understand why he did it? Maybe that's why he got a "light" sentence, though I don't know what kind of penalties Germans face for such terrible murders.

[–]kubrick66 191ポイント192ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm pretty sure this article was translated from German, which explains the words used.

[–]Lisrus 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

Doesn't explain the sentence time though.

[–]ryhntyntyn 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Part of the it is because of his age. They were judged under Jugendrecht, not full adult law. The Maximum was 15 years. Why they didn't get that, I have no idea.

[–]Kreth 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

Life in prison is 13 years in sweden so it's probably similar in Germany. To the American eu who is used to live sentences being several hundred years, it might be weird

[–]zakraye 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well regardless of the country 15 years for the cold-blooded premeditated murder of your girlfriend and child seems like a light sentence.

I sure hope for societies sake he has to serve the full 15.

[–]Cyntheon 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're seeing it from the eyes of the US' extremely punitive system. Other countries (like those in the EU) tend to be much lighter on the sentences than the US so 15 years is standard for murder there.

That is one of the reasons why the US houses 22% of the world prison population while only being 4% of the total population: Even getting caught with with a couple of times can land you in prison for 15 years or even life.

Our opinions and thoughts are based on what we see, so 15 years seems like a light sentence to you (and other US citizens) but not to anyone else.

[–]Ford_Imperfect 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im from the US and i hate that people are so willing to just throw someone in jail and forget about it. This guy deserves jail but short of murdering him, locking him up for the majority of his good years is sufficient, imo

[–]Denial-And-Error 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm legitimately curious, how is 13 years equivalent to "life"? The math just doesn't seem to work...

[–]DevTad [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The argument I have heard here in Ireland for similar sentences is that you are taking away enough years that you essentially have taken their life as the rest of the world will have moved on so much by the time you get out.

[–]Denial-And-Error [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I suppose I can see that.

[–]DevTad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Generally life sentences (at least in Ireland) don't have set lengths to them even though they are usually 17 years or so. They will actually be kept in for life if they remain a threat.

In the case above their hands were tied though as the person wasn't being tried as an adult.

[–]Smartnership 73ポイント74ポイント  (90子コメント)

And in my summary, I did not include the details about the added speculation on the girl being conscious for awhile after she was set on fire.

It's in the link, but dear God that's just horrific.

The judge may have doled out the max for all I know, but that quote is absent the condemnation one would expect.

Also, unfortunate word selection with a German judge referring to murder as a "solution"

[–]rbbrtoy 86ポイント87ポイント  (38子コメント)

German here. The judge referred to how the murderer saw his deed. Nothing wrong with calling it a 'solution' in the eyes of the murderer. Thats what is was to him. And thats important to notice though he still didnt get proper punishment.

[–]mlc885 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"To the mentally ill guy, killing this person to make his life better made sense" should not even be a controversial statement. The judge isn't saying it's okay, just that it was his (crazy) motivation and goal. Obviously I can't know if this guy got better, and I don't generally think that prison can ever make people heal, but acting like that quote is somehow related to a "light" sentence without knowing the sentencing practices of another country is ridiculous. His actions were so terrible that I hope German prisons provide a lot of psychological help - simple punishment by imprisonment obviously wouldn't fix this guy, even if it worked on more normal criminals. (I don't believe it does, but some crazy plan to torture somebody to death is pretty far away from the normal crimes people commit, and doesn't even fit into the sort of "crime of passion" category that many non-accidental murders would - he's probably a sociopath to come up with this shit)

[–]hellohello2204 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

can you speak on how long sentences are for these sorts of things there? and the prison system in general?

[–]tyler94920 3ポイント4ポイント  (35子コメント)

How is 14 years not punishment? Just think for a second about how long of a time that is. He killed a girl because he saw it as his only way out but he will likely regret it for the rest of his life. After 14 years his life will be in shambles but he will have a chance to try and make something of it and become a better person. If you sent him to prison for life then you take away any chance he has to try and repent for his mistakes. He deserves to pay for his crimes but you know he also deserves a second chance.

[–]barrettbreshears 13ポイント14ポイント  (25子コメント)

Wow this is a very interesting perspective. The way I thought about it was more from the victim's perspective. I can't image the fear and pain she went through and how her life and the life of her unborn child was stolen from them. Just having my second daughter recently I thought of all the wonderful moments I have with my daughters and how he took that joy from not only her but grandparents and other relatives. So I guess I can't really understand how it is ok for someone to take something so dear and do it in such a manner that is extremely violent and cruel and then say he deserves a second chance? He made the decision to do this. He ended two peoples lives and left countless others life in shambles for the rest of their lives too. I'm not sure I would be worried about his ability to repent and become a better person.

[–]Acrolith 11ポイント12ポイント  (18子コメント)

There's nothing wrong with that point of view, it just means you value justice over mercy.

I disagree with you because I'm looking at it from a more practical point of view. If someone serves their time, is rehabilitated, and is judged to no longer be a threat to society, it is silly to keep him locked up. Then you're just taking a person who could be a productive member of society and forcing him to be a leech, a drain on taxpayer money.

I think punishment is only useful insofar as it protects society, or helps the guilty person understand the severity of his crime and reform himself. I see punishment for the sake of vengeance to be pointless and primitive. Punishing the murderer won't bring her back.

Like I said, it's just a different perspective. Your point of view is understandable in its own right.

[–]Zarosian_Emissary 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

" If someone serves their time, is rehabilitated, and is judged to no longer be a threat to society, it is silly to keep him locked up." I can understand this, which is why I'm for thing like parole if rehabilitated. But, if after 14 years he's clearly not rehabilitated, and is a threat to society, then he's still let out isn't he? I could see a 14 year minimum with release if he's rehabilitated, but not a 14 year maximum for it, that seems low if he isn't.

[–]th0br0 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It vastly depends on his behaviour while in prison. He might even be let out sooner than 14yrs. (i.e. after spending at least two thirds of his sentence). In the end, he doesn't seem to be your 'off-the-shelf' psychopath (I wonder whether he qualifies as one in the first place), so the question whether he's a threat to society is more difficult to answer. All depends on the actual judgement which is: (quoting from a German newspaper which covered the event)

  • Public prosecutors demanded 15 yrs (highest sentence possible under juvenile law, which they fall under because <21yrs)
  • As to the course of events: the two guys planned the deed a few days in advance, the school pal apparently participated due to some fetish (i.e. he wanted to experience killing somebody)
  • The verdict includes a finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt"

The most important part of this verdict, which answers your question, is the finding of "exceptional gravity of guilt". In Germany, if that is part of the verdict, there can not be a reduction of your sentence within the first 15 years legally. So there's no chance that they get out without doing their full time.

[–]Zarosian_Emissary [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the information. I'm from the US and not that informed on how Germany's system works. So was good to know. =)

[–]Acrolith 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know exactly how it works. I assume there's some sort of psychologist who reviews these things, and if he's still a threat after 14 years, he can be kept locked up longer, but I don't know if that's the case. It's what would make sense to me.

[–]Zarosian_Emissary 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, that I could support, really depends how they do it.

[–]zoltan_peace_envoy 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

I doubt he is capable of empathising with othe human beings. He weighed having to be a father of an illegitimate child against killing her in such a manner. And came up with the result that the latter was the better option. I wouldn't want him anywhere in my neighborhood. He can repent all he wants behind the bars, from where he can't date my daughter.

People change. But not that much.

[–]mlc885 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

If your argument is that he is mentally sick, then he shouldn't be in prison. If we're imprisoning him then we're assuming he can recover, even if that seems like an absurd thing to say about someone who did this. He probably needs to be in a mental ward of some sort, not behind bars. Presumably the German justice system is better than that in the US, but locking up insane people the same way you'd lock up a normal criminal makes no sense - if he's so dangerous and crazy that he needs to be separated from society forever, then he needs a lot of specialized help. I would also be shocked if he's capable of truly repenting, though, if he's someone who would do this sort of thing - it makes no sense. Even tossing away morality, I think any normal person would, you know, abandon the child rather than commit a terrible murder.

Terrible people can change, of course, that just might not apply to people who can't be permanently cured. You can learn to not be an asshole or to control your violent tendencies, but it must be incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to learn to not be a sociopath or psychopath. (and I'd think anyone who managed to do such a thing did it in childhood - they learned to live in the world and not act wrongly, even if they won't ever have the range of emotions that normal people have)

[–]zoltan_peace_envoy [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I think any normal person would, you know, abandon the child rather than commit a terrible murder.

That's why I don't understand why the judge called it a solution. Morality aside, you don't nuke the city because you don't want to pay the electricity bill. This had to have been from anger or hatred.

[–]mlc885 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If I felt I had no other options in my life and I killed myself, that would be my "solution" to the problem, even if we all agree that suicide is virtually always crazy and useless. The judge was saying that it was a solution in this crazy person's mind - killing someone to get out of a far less terrible problem is blatantly insane to every normal person. (and it's still way ridiculous even if you get away with it, which, by the way, you probably don't)

[–]barrettbreshears 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Definitely, I think thats why I found it so interesting. I have to say I didn't even think about the mercy side of things. I wonder if it is more of a cultural difference growing up in the U.S.A. If a story like this happened in the U.S.A. everyone would want to put him to death and we would feel good about it like justice was served. It is interesting thinking about mercy and realizing he is a person that could maybe have something to offer society if rehabilitated.

[–]Acrolith 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder if it is more of a cultural difference growing up in the U.S.A.

Probably! I'm European, and I know a lot of Americans would agree with you.

This question is really a lot more ambiguous than almost everyone gives it credit for. Because (to argue against myself for a moment) a sense of justice, even vengeance, is a fundamental part of being human. There's a reason we feel good when we read about someone getting what was coming to them. And I'm not gonna lie, if the murderers had been struck and killed by a falling tree or something, I'd be pumping the fist. Because that's what would feel fair.

It's the Punisher - Wolverine - Batman - Superman - Jesus axis. All of those are idealized people, and they all have their own answer to justice vs. mercy. None of them are wrong, really.

[–]bleshu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There's nothing wrong with that point of view, it just means you value justice over mercy.

Which is debatable. A lot of people think Justice =/= Revenge. Myself included.

[–]almightySapling [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So, the would-be-father is maybe capable of rehabilitation because, it could be argued, he was driven to perform this disgusting crime out of desperation.

What of his friend, though, who just decided to help murder a pregnant teenager because he was asked? I see no line of reasoning that would ever convince me he has "learned his lesson" and I personally would rather he be put down than kept in prison, because he's a faulty unit that cannot be repaired.

[–]Acrolith [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, if he's a "faulty unit", that would mean he's criminally insane. Which is very possible. And if it's not something that can be fixed, then he should never be let out (I don't believe the death penalty is ever justified). As far as I know, psychopaths aren't very curable, and they remain dangerous their entire lives.

I don't think it's possible to judge that based on a newspaper article, though.

[–]LordDango [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Heres a different perspective.

With such a light sentence, future criminals wilk have more incentive to commit murder in the future due to the fact that they are only getting a max of 14 years in jail.

Look at China. They have one of the lowest crime rates because of how hard their system punishes criminals.

[–]Acrolith [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm hazy on the details, but I seem to remember reading that the severity of punishment has almost no effect on severe crimes like murder. More severe punishments only seem to discourage lesser, non-violent crimes (tax evasion, embezzlement etc.)

China has a low crime rate because it's a police state. Low crime rates are one of the big advantages of a police state.

Note that the country with the lowest crime rate in the world is Switzerland, which has an extremely lenient justice system, even by European standards.

[–]LordDango [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Actually that reminded me of something i read that is similar to what you are saying.. Basically economics in law.

I guess higher punishment wouldnt help.. But still.. I believe if the man is to be habilitated, he should spend the rest of his life paying back society and to the victims family. I believe if thats the case, itd be easier to swallow.

[–]tyler94920 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

He has hurt many people and caused alot of pain but he is still a human being not a monster as alot of people on this thread seems to view him.

[–]PissedOffPopcorn 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't he kind of a monster though? I mean if your not a monster for immolating someone what characterizes you as a monster. I don't see how this guy deserves a second chance.

[–]Dyognes7256 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.”

[–]almightySapling [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is total bullshit.

"If we can't fix everything, then we shouldn't bother fixing the things we can."

[–]barrettbreshears 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes that is true, that's why I thought it was so interesting a point of view you had. It reminded me he is a person with hopes and dreams, a mother, father and friends. But I do believe we live in a world of consequences. I think taking something as precious as life in such a horrible way should have more permanent consequences and doesn't deserve a second chance. To me somethings are unforgivable.

[–]deepmoss 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In that case, we kill them so they're no repercussions to society such as waste of taxpayer money

[–]acrylites 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope. . The girl and her baby deserves a second chance but that's not going to happen. This is the coldest kind of murder, one where you plan ahead the killing and have time to back out of it but don't. It's a positive thing for prison to be rehabilitive and for the offender to come out hopefully a better person. But a guy who is capable of doing this to another human being, never mind someone who is carrying your child, is most likely beyond that kind of help. Prison should be used to segregate him from the rest of society.

[–]nMetrics 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Should've made it eighteen years when you consider why he committed the murder.

[–]almightySapling [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I feel the comedy would be lost on the family of the victim, unfortunately.

[–]88leo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, he doesn't it. Thats scary as fuck. I voted to put somebody away for life that killed a girl because she didn't want to get fired for stealing pants from her job. Somebody that kills so callously for such trivial reasons is also known as a serial killer. They get better at it and most get caught on their first kill because they are sloppy about it. This guy should never be free, its not safe for society: my point of view has nothing to do with revenge or justice.

[–]roadrunner440x6 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

And the girl, and her child? What chance do they have of making something of their lives?

[–]Acrolith 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

None, but that won't change no matter what you do to the guy.

[–]EmeraldIbis 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not about revenge, it's about keeping him away from the public until he's rehabilitated. That aim can be achieved within 14 years.

[–]bleshu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And let's be honest, if you're not rehabilitated in 14 years it's not going to happen.

[–]daner92 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not an american i'm sure. we go by eye for an eye.

But no, under any standard he took a life and rejoins society at 34. No, not even close to commensurate.

[–]GenBlase 73ポイント74ポイント  (37子コメント)

Solution is not exactly a good word in Germany.

Final Solution and all that makes it a real bad word.

Anyway, the Judge is German, which means he would be speaking in German. Which means that shitty translators would translate it to something in English.

The sentence of 14 years is an extremely long time for people not in America. Only America would you see something extremely long sentences, plus all the other crap he has to deal with in a German prison system.

[–]ryhntyntyn 29ポイント30ポイント  (6子コメント)

There isn't other crap in the German system. It's a rehabilitative system. He's going to be treated relatively well in comparison to the US.

[–]jkimtrolling 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

hes going to kill himself i bet.

[–]ryhntyntyn 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe. That would be just, he should be allowed to do it. There are two of them. The "accomplice" was a part of it because he wanted to make someone and see someone die.

[–]bigbootysuzie 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thats just fucked up. People like that aren't right minded in the slightest. Reminds me of interviews I saw with jeffery dahmer. Where he just saw people on the street and couldn't stop envisioning murdering and eating them. Sick people man.

[–]iamlogris [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not really just. Maybe fitting? 'Just' would have been manning up and raising the child, or fuck, even just ditching the mother and the child, instead of committing murder.

This just makes me want to puke.

[–]hokkeyfiend 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

then he's gonna be like "thank you for the internment and free bratwurst, but i'm a thrill killer and i enjoy seeing women suffer, so i'm gonna carry on doing what makes me happy :-)"

[–]Subpars0up 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

14 years is an extremely long time for people not in America

Definitely not a long time in Canada for premeditated murder.

[–]IamSilke 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

New Zealand here. 14 years would be about what we would expect to see for this crime.

[–]rwc2000 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

What other crap would he have to deal with that he wouldn't have to deal with in another prison somewhere else in the world. 14 years seems way too short.

[–]Lovebanter [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

im 24 and it feels like ive been alive for ages. 14 years is more then half of my life so far and seems like a really long time. im not even saying that i think he should have gotten longer/shorter but lets not pretend that being away from society for 14 years wouldnt be a massive deal for anyone

[–]horsenbuggy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But if you look at what he took away, he robbed that girl of probably 65 years of her life and the baby of 75-80 years. So he gets 14 years "taken away" when he denied potentially 145 years of life.

[–]Slim_Charles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm 24 and my life has flown by. 14 years is nothing for ending another person's life, and devastating the lives of her family.

[–]OKCoool 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

plus all the other crap he has to deal with in a German prison system.

Poor baby.

Seriously, are you this ignorant to the state of American prisons? Nobody besides Russia outside of third-world countries can even compete

[–]Mewmaster101 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

He should be there for his ENTIRE LIFE, not for X amount of years. someone like that should not be allowed on teh streats.

[–]costryme 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's your opinion. In real life, it's slightly more complicated than that.

[–]roadrunner440x6 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (6子コメント)

No, it really isn't. This isn't some drug use or prostitution 'victim-less crime'. We're talking about cold-blooded, calculated and horrific murder. Or did she 'have it coming'?

[–]BrainPicker3 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think he was saying that this is the emptional kneejerk reaction, and not the practical solution to benefit society. Sticking all murderers in for life assumes people are incapable of changing or feeling regret for their actions.

[–]cannibalAJS [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

How is locking up a proven killer for life not a benefit to society? Even if he is capable of change then how does it benefit society to set him free? What could he possibly do to offset the risk of him murdering again?

[–]bleshu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He could get a job and pay taxes when he gets out. = Benefit to society.

Rehabilitation is always the better option if available. Some people can't see reasoning and that's how that is, but no reason not to try when it can be achieved with others.

It's the difference between a system meant to punish and a system meant to rehabilitate.

[–]hhlim18 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How is locking him up benefiting the society? You're wasting money lots of money keeping him a life, locking him away for what purpose? Wouldn't capital punishment be easier and more beneficial to the society?

If you believe he can't change, hang him. He can change, rehabilitate him after x years and let him go.

[–]costryme [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That was exactly my thought, thank you.

[–]freedom_boner1776 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you purposefully take a life (In this case you can argue 2 lives), you don't deserve rehab and release. You deserve to rot in prison. If this was a drug case or nonviolent offense I would agree, but murder, in cold blood in this case, gets zero sympathy from me.

[–]earvid 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Details please.

[–]Icecoldtigerbeer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

14 years is nothing even compared to NZ where sentences seem lenient. 17 years+ for this kind of murder is to be expected. Whole life tarrifs should be imposed for the severity of this crime and the fact that there were two victims. The fact is, this sentence is crazy.

[–]Fatesurge [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There is a difference between sentences for rehabilitation, and sentences for those that have no hope of being rehabilitated. This guy is a fucking whackjob.

[–]jsamuelson -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Say what? It's a horrific double murder of a pregnant mother and unborn child. No, 14 years is NOT long enough. He should rot in prison for his entire life and die there. "Other crap he has to deal with". I hope he deals with all the worst things I can imagine happening in the German prison system, every day.

[–]NonsensicalOrange 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

He was right, America has much higher prison terms than European countries. 14 years isn't given out lightly, 122640 hours will not pass by quickly, he will miss a significant portion of his life. You hope he suffers, but that is only vengeance.

In the UK killing an unborn child is called "child destruction", not homicide. A mother who aborted (36-week fetus) got a 1 year suspended sentence in the UK, while in the USA a guy who tricked his girlfriend into aborting (7-week fetus) got 14 years in jail. Homicide carries a prison sentence of 5-15 years in Germany.

[–]jsamuelson 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is going towards a debate on foetal rights etc which is not specifically what we are discussing here and the cutoff point for a foetus to survive outside the womb is a difficult thing to decide with scientific certainty, regardless of a moral opinion. I would however argue that an 8 month old foetus is very much a living person and killing it should be regarded as murder, and so at the VERY least two sentences should have been applied for a total of 28 years. It was a double homicide.

Laws should have some inherent discretion and some reliance on precedent or the option to create a precedent.

[–]Lord_Kelsier [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not how it works though. Even if the "killing" of the fetus would be regarded as murder, the sentence would be the same. Charges can't be stacked like that in European Law.

In Germany the maximum sentence you can get is 15 years. No matter how many counts of murder you have committed (or any other crimes you are charged with).

There can only be one sentence as well, so instead of giving out a sentence for each count in the charge, there is only one cumulative sentence that, as already said, cannot be higher than 15 years (which equals "life in prison").

[–]roadrunner440x6 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The severity and brutality of the crime demands a LOT more than 28 years. "Life" is to good for these animals. And I thought the US had f'd up sentencing. He probably would've gotten more time for driving drunk in some EU counties.

[–]jsamuelson 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree and light touch sentences like this are completely out of proportion to the crime.

[–]Dungeons_and_dongers 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your country is fucked up mate, so how about you lay off the advice giving.

[–]Slim_Charles -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait, so if you commit murder in Germany you won't get a life sentence? Am I mistaken or is the system that fucked up?

[–]zaviex [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In Germany 14 years is a lot. Life imprisonment in Germany typically ends with parole in 15 years. Germany views life without the posing lift of parole as unethical

[–]MenaceDeuce -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

what the hell do germans call a solution to a math problem then? who am i kidding i don't wanna know, it's probably Mathenfixgeheistenshpielengrocht or some shit

[–]AlfredJodocusKwak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We call it solution. This "solution is a bad word" is bullshit.

[–]terpin 25ポイント26ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah I didn't read the link because I didn't want to read the gory details of how this poor woman died. Maybe that makes me a pussy, but I'm fine not knowing the details.

[–]batsy_of_gotham 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

I emailed you the details

[–]terpin 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stop it Hillary!

[–]Bobbly88 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

pls print

[–]he-said-youd-call 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Hey Hilary! You just won Nevada by 5 points!"
"pls print"
"What's your victory speech going to be?"
"pls print"
"I've got these confidential documents that really shouldn't be found on your server, let alone in hard copy..."
"pls print"
"Hey, we're running out of ink!"
"pls print"

[–]Smartnership 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not at all, part of the wisdom that comes with experience is knowing when to overrule curiously.

[–]CalmerWithKarma 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is so true. I wish I'd known this year's ago before the Russian soldier's throat cut, terrorist beheadings and perhaps the worst one of all - three guys one hammer.

Haunted.

[–]ramot1 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Another German 'solution'. Whoops

[–]alonewithoutkarma 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

well the title says 'burnt alive', which is worse than 'a possibility she was conscious'

[–]DevTad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The judge isn't elected, it's not his job to generate a hard on crime sound bite.

[–]Ran4 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you really need a condemnation at this point? How is that going to make the courts any safer?!

Seriously, you need to ground your feet.

[–]LaughingCryingSmiley 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is to justify declaring this "Mord" instead of "Totschlag" while at the same time acknowledging his guilt.

[–]lokethedog 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course they understand it, its their job to understand criminsl minds. The sentence wasnt short by german standrads.

[–]pretzelcar 15ポイント16ポイント  (10子コメント)

Don't pretend you don't understand why he did it.

If you look at armed robbery, there are plenty of people who will kill for a couple hundred dollars. Child support can easily cost over $100,000. It surprises me that this type of thing doesn't happen more often.

[–]RoyBeer 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, the state gives you about 50k in child support (Kindergeld) so that's something.

[–]Divine2012 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? Then, I don't think it was just about the money.

[–]MenaceDeuce 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

when a guy bludgeons, stabs then immolates his pregnant girlfriend i kinda get the impression he has bigger issues than financial, so no, i don't understand why he did it

[–]1935X 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are hundreds of other ways to go about it. His actions say he got more out of it than just being child-free.

[–]bleshu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All his actions really say is that he wanted to make sure she was dead.

If anything, the fact that he hit her with a piece of wood to knock her out first could show he didn't want her to feel pain?

You can't make those assumptions based on his actions alone, you have no idea what actually went on, how he acted in court, etc.

[–]Lucifer_The_Unclean [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You become a slave when you get a kid. While the woman has no responsibilities.

[–]the10fold 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

It surprises me that this type of thing doesn't happen more often.

Right? I have no clue why people act like responsible human beings and don't set their pregnant girlfriends on fire. /s

[–]Divine2012 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It doesn't because most people are at least half-way decent or they can come up with alternatives to burning someone alive.

People who kill for money are pretty much shit tier people and honestly, even if he didn't have to pay child support, I don't think it would have stopped him as choosing not to pay child support has consequences he might not want to face. And honestly, people like him have killed for less.

[–]TurquoiseLuck 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think most people are just happier paying for the condom...

[–]recovering007 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're a sick fuck.

[–]throwz101 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it has bene translated freely from German. Also here, in Europe, long prison sentences are not too common. 14 years is a lot already, and considered a 'severe' punishment.

A lifetime sentence even only matches up to 20 or 30 years at most. At least where I live.

So yeah, for European standards, this is a severe punishment. Is it severe enough? I think not. If it were up to me, they should cut of his dick so he can't make more women pregnant.

[–]meepmeepmeepmeepmeed 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wouldnt it be smarter to have better laws regarding paternity?

[–]forbiddenway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uhhhhhhh what the FUCK?

"No, no, see this wasn't one of them NONSENSE murders. He just burned her and her child alive so he could continue living his life without any inconveniences. A few years should straighten this right out, he'll be good as new then."

[–]Koffeeboy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably scared as fuck of what he would do if the sentence was longer. I mean, The kid burned down a pregnant lady to keep his freedom, he'd probably burn down the prison.

[–]Three_Headed_Monkey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can understand a motive without condoning it. Motive is used in investigations and can be used to argue guilt.

[–]Ran4 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a good thing that the judge understands the motive!

[–]EmeraldIbis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The aim of the prison system is not revenge, it's to keep the criminal away from the public until they're safely rehabilitated. This guy committed an awful crime, but it was for a very specific reason. That's not an excuse but it means he's probably not a threat to anybody else once he gets out. I'd much rather him be out, having to support himself and pay taxes, rather than being fed and sheltered at the taxpayers expense.

[–]grzelbu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That judge's quote is so chilling, it feels like they can understand why he did it?

Being convinced of a defendants motivation to commit a murder is an integral part of judging them and therefore it must be part of the judges statement. So it should actually feel like they understand.

[–]lhedn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In most of Europe 14 years isn't light, but one of the longest sentences you can get.

[–]TruculentOcclusion [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, understanding someone's motive for something does not mean you empathise with them!

[–]Momochichi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"I'm not saying he did the right thing. But I understand."

[–]wwjr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It sounds like the judge is just explaining what his motive was for killing her.

[–]ameya2693 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For him the crime was a solution

They are giving his perspective, not their take on it.

[–]TTomahawk[🍰] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He himself was 19 years old so they ruled him after "youth law". 14 years is closely the most you can get at that age. And there is no way to shorten the time by good behavior and such.

[–]conenubi701 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I mean, the Germans were the Nazis during WW2

[–]AmbiguouslyYou 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This man's "solution" is unthinkable, immoral, and horrible. This crime is truly heinous.

Women have multiple legal avenues of discarding parental responsibility. Adoption, haven laws, abortion.

Men have no similar legal recourse. A man maintains legal financial responsibility for a child regardless of his desires. In this way, the legal system discriminates against men. They have no rights here.

If men reproductive rights equal to those of women, this crime would never have happened.