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I came from Soviet Union. I don't have any illusions about socialist ideas. Lots of young people here might have illusions. But I don't.





Just as a counterpoint since this type of comment serves to only shut down what should be rational and unemotional discussions on political ideas and potential policy decisions.

> As for the world’s second major propaganda system, association of socialism with the Soviet Union and its clients serves as a powerful ideological weapon to enforce conformity and obedience to the State capitalist institutions, to ensure that the necessity to rent oneself to the owners and managers of these institutions will be regarded as virtually a natural law, the only alternative to the ‘socialist’ dungeon.

> The Soviet leadership thus portrays itself as socialist to protect its right to wield the club, and Western ideologists adopt the same pretense in order to forestall the threat of a more free and just society. This joint attack on socialism has been highly effective in undermining it in the modern period.

Source: https://chomsky.info/1986____/

I don't necessarily agree with Chomsky but "I was there mannnn" and "if you disagree with me you're young and naive" is not the standard of discussion we should hold ourselves to.


Western and Northern Europe seem to be doing fine with their socialist schemes.

How many startups have you seen come out of Finland or Norway lately?

Finland has actually done OK when it comes to startups (Supercell, Rovio, Nokia and now offshoots, etc...). Norway, not sure, but they're a petro state with a tiny population.

Plus, even if there were hundreds of hot Finnish startups (there is a site that measures them actually, but I'm not Finnish so I know little about their scene) they wouldn't have exposure in the US since the US is so US-centric. Hell I'm not American so all I know of startups in the US is what I see here.


Supercell, Cfengine, Meltwater, SnapTV, ... Even Opera and Nokia are/were based out there. There's actually a lot from there.

Finland: http://startup100.net/ Norway: http://torgronsund.com/norwegianstartups/


The US is substantially wealthier than almost all of those countries, except Norway with its oil riches. They have massive youth unemployment, disincentives to investment and entrepreneurship, and the lack of innovation to prove it.

They actually have decent amounts of entrepreneurship relative to their populations, a higher average living standard than the US, longer life expectancy, far less crime, all despite having nearly no resources. Oh, and more equality. But GDP/total wealth is all that matters, right?

And a little note on HDI (used to measure quality of life/human development) - its skewed in favour of the US because it measures average income, not taking into account the fact Americans pay extra for health care while Europeans include it in taxes/exclude it from income calculations. Even then several Euro states beat the US.


There's a huge difference between Socialism and Democratic Socialism, surprised you wouldn't know that.

Perhaps you could explain the difference, because I don't see it.

Well the Soviets would have considered themselves Democratic Socialists. It's not like anyone ever advertises themselves as undemocratic in an official way like that.

I really think Bernie is best penned down as a "social democrat". I don't understand why he calls himself a socialist?


I'd recommend you actually read about the differences; one of them still has Capitalism, the other doesn't. It's a massive difference.

Have you been to Sweden or other Nordic countries, which Sanders openly claims as his models for many of his social-democratic (not socialist) ideas? They are free countries and at the top of most measures of human welfare. Most of Western Europe embraces more social democratic concepts than the U.S., and their standards of living are at least as high as America's.

The USSR said it was implementing communism (not socialism), but really implemented a brutal totalitarian dicatorship.


I have a similar perspective. My family fled from Cuba with the clothes on their back after the Revolution. The rise of communism in their country is no-doubt the defining tragedy of my grandparents' lives. When I hear an American politician talking up socialism, the alarm bells start to go off. I'm very worried.

Did that actually sound good to you before you posted it?

You've posted several rude comments to Hacker News in political threads. That's against the site guidelines. Please (re)read them, and post civilly and substantively (or not at all) from now on.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html


How well is the opposite working for Russia currently?

Serious question, what is the opposite of communism? My understanding is Russia is some sort of quasi-democratic-in-name-only oligarchy led by politicians and mobsters.



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