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Rand Paul suspends 2016 presidential campaign (abcnews.go.com)

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[–]SpanishDukePaleolibertarian[S] 29ポイント30ポイント  (14子コメント)

The future is bleak.

[–]butWhoWasBee 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Stay positive. Despair won't help us. Think about what you can do to further your cause and do it. Go donate 20 bucks to a libertarian cause today, or volunteer, or try to convince people of the importance of liberty.

[–]DavethaHeelTheSeedsofLiberty.com 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol voting

[–]butWhoWasBee 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, honestly I think Rand was polluting the message. Even so I don't want my fellows to be disheartened.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sure, but everything seems to be getting worse since Ron Paul, not better.

[–]butWhoWasBee 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I promise you it will get worse faster if everybody gives up. People have been around a long time and will hopefully be around a lot longer. What is 4 or 8 bad years?

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not giving up anything I'll always stand for my beliefs, just depressing to look around.

[–]aveceasarGet off my lawn! 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

it will get worse faster

"The worse, the better." This shit has to crumble - the faster it happens the less pain will it generate...

[–]Not_PicturedAnarcho-Objectivish 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This sucker is going to hit rock bottom. The best we can hope for is we make rock bottom not so painful for ourselves.

People will listen when they are starving to death.

[–]Fridge-LargemeatVoluntaryist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish I knew of libertarian causes in St Louis. I might volunteer. I don't want to be working on any campaigns... those end in frustration and tears for me.

[–]me_gusta_poonPervert 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meh. I'm just gonna sit here and masturbate to Cuck porn

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We are doomed

[–]Ryonne 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Time to head to New Hampshire, eh?

[–]SIRoldharryVoluntaryist & Individualist 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's happening.gif

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happening.gif

Feedback welcome at /r/image_linker_bot | Disable with "ignore me" via reply or PM

[–]GovtIsASuperstition 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

One can only wonder how Ron Paul (or someone who speaks like him) would have fared this election cycle.

[–]fieryseraph 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

When I see the front page full of Bernie crap, and all the enthusiasm his campaign has generated, I wonder that every single day. Sad that he wasn't in this one. :-/

[–]NoGardE 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah, but Bernie is a socialist, and young people love socialism these days. Ron Paul pushed for personal responsibility and liberty. The young generation doesn't have an appreciation for that, on average.

[–]Bitcoin_Chief 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Go back 4 years and reddit looks the same for ron paul.

[–]NoGardE 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was here, and while there was definitely a lot of talk, this year seems like another level. Literally every US political post in /r/all. Comments in every God damn thread. Maybe it's just that I notice it more because I don't like the guys politics, but God damn.

[–]Bitcoin_Chief 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The creators of /r/enoughlibertarianspam probably felt the same way.

[–]fieryseraph -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well... I can' t help but wonder - if Ron was in the race, how many people now enamored with Bernie, would have gone over to the Ron camp, when presented with an alternative "let's shake up the establishment" candidate? Maybe some people are endorsing Bernie not because they like his economic policy, but because they are tired of the status quo. You know?

[–]Knorssmanお客様は神様です 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

in my experience, most of the bernie supporters are die-hard leftists, i know one guy who leans left but chose rand paul in the end. so i think rand paul got all of the left leaning swing voters he could have gotten

[–]jpeek 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bernie Sanders is the definition of status quo. He just wants to give out the most money.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder how Ron Paul would have faired against ONE Candidate, like Hillary/Bernie. Ron always had a much, much larger field.

[–]AncapTom 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Rand talked over the audience and never really connected with the people. Even if he was Ron Paul reincarnated, he wouldn't have been able to sell it.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that people need an emotional connection is quite telling.

[–]LethnAnarcho-Voluntaryist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do feel sorry for the guy, he was basically one of the few intelligent candidates there, even if he did make a stupid move by trying to play the republican's game, but nope, the media squarely focused on people like Trump, Sanders and Clinton, not even giving him proper chances to speak and make a case for himself.

It's just sad proof that honest people don't survive in politics, especially in the U.S because everyone who's dishonest will try to bring them down rather than fight fairly, because they know they'd lose.

[–]AustrianMarkets 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Proof that pandering doesn't work. His father lasted much longer. He dropped out before the 'libertarian paradise' NH.

At least yesterday he got another chance to say how mean and racist trump is....Way to go Rand!

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was no Democratic race in 2012.

Those voters went to Ron.

[–]TexMarshfellowVoluntaryist 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

To be fair, his father was not hampered by a law barring him from running for Senate reelection and president simultaneously

[–]R_HakIndividualist - Don't Tread on Me! 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Some people (for example Tom Woods and Lew Rockwell) just don't want to admit that a lot of those people who supported Ron were idiots and now support Trump or Sanders. Because they know this is the main reason Rand is doing poorly...

[–]TexMarshfellowVoluntaryist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll believe it. That sucks though.

[–]RepeatPotatoeDavid Freed-man -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

At least yesterday he got another chance to say how mean and racist trump is....Way to go Rand!

/s ?

[–]AnarkhonNo rulers 10ポイント11ポイント  (24子コメント)

He should have waited for the NH primaries to test our strength.

Pussy.

* Vote McAfee, we need balls.

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

How much did you sacrifice and donate to his campaign?

You cant have a campaign with no money coming in and being booted off every other debate.

The people who should have been behind him balked.

[–]YesYesLibertariansThe Man Who Discovered England 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

The people who should have been behind him balked.

I owe Rand nothing.

Face it, he was just a bad candidate. No passion. No conviction. He had the most exciting ideas but kept a lid on them in order to blend in. Blending in is the worst strategy in a competition that large. It was clear long ago he was going nowhere, and when victory was no longer in the cards, he stayed the course instead of lobbing educational nukes at the Republican voters the way his father did. Did he ever even mention Rothbard out loud?

[–]PosteMortemVoluntaryist 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Incidentally, I believe he did mention both Rothbard and Mises during either his AMA or his twitter thing.

[–]SIRoldharryVoluntaryist & Individualist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He did; on his AMA, Rand said that his favorite authors are Mises, Rothbard, and Hayek.

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Again.

Learn to read between the lines and stop making the perfect the enemy of the good.

Your impression of him is simply not reality. He was fire and principle.

[–]sgorian -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

You missed the debate where Rand in a boring tone called for an equal opportunity drug war. He had no message of liberty, you should post about him in /r/conservative instead of here because that's what Rand was running as. I could listen to Ron Paul because he had integrity, he believed in what he was saying while his son portrayed himself as a bland conservative but we're expected to " read between the lines" which is something you didn't have to do with his dad and quite frankly Rand doesn't have the same level of integrity.

Edit: Readability

[–]YesYesLibertariansThe Man Who Discovered England -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Ron Paul core represents maybe 10% of primary-voter Republicans. Rand could have had all of us and it would move the needle a couple of points. His presidential campaign failed because personalities like Cruz and Trump are a thousand times more magnetic.

I was all in for Ron because every minute he spent campaigning he was educating, which had meaningful results. With Rand we're talking about a more run-of-the-mill election. That is, he was actually trying to win. And when it came to wooing the average Republicans and donors, he did not succeed. He didn't even beat Carson in Iowa. I feel justified with my wait-and-see attitude. Besides, my vote in all this means less than most. My state has very little influence on how this is all going to turn out.

It's good that he accepted the writing on the wall and stopped wasting everyone's time. The libertarian core might enjoy it, but dragging out a doomed campaign to the bitter end does not bolster one's credibility among the Republicans. I look forward to his next attempt in 2020 or 2024.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

He wasn't invted to one debate.

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

And wasnt going to be invited to the one just before New Hampshire.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah he was, top 5 finish how could he not?

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You had to be top 4 in Iowa, Top 5 nationally, or top 6 in New Hampshire.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah, so basically...Don't Invite Paul (5th Iowa, 6th national, 7th NH) haha

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes sir.

[–]Shalashaska315Triple H 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Was that the strategy, to ride out support from existing libertarians? Or was it to water down the message and make it bland enough for the masses?

Ron objectively brought more people to the movement by speaking truth and getting people fired up. Hell, Rand did that too for a while, before the presidential campaign. But now Rand tried to tone it down to seem less scary to the average voter. But rather than galvanize people, it just made him look like another run of the mill republican that's slightly better on a few things.

All you need to do is go back and watch the debates with Ron in 2008 and 2012 and compare that to Rand in this year's debates. That will tell you all you need to know about why Rand's campaign fizzled out. It doesn't matter if you're a secret libertarian or not, you can't get elected without getting people excited. He did not do that.

[–]LinearSimconDisillusioned? -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

Rand Paul bailed on consistency and ideology, he wasn't the candidate initially made out to be. Good thing is he might have made a deal with Cruz for all we know going out, the least bad candidate with a reasonable possibility of being elected. Although, I'm not saying he's good, but the least bad alternative. Rand just haven't been in the race for a long time.

[–]Pure_PoliticsMurray Rothbard 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

He never "bailed."

Libertarians and anarchists just weren't able to read inbetween the lines.

Never make the perfect the enemy of the good.

[–]Cato_Keto_Cigars 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Cruz is just as bad when it comes to Taxes and War. And he's not natural born (hence him being Naturalized, same as Schwarzenegger but under different legal conditions) - so SCOTUS (who hes been mocking for years) will be the ultimate decider of his fate. Seems like an easy way to end up with a Bush or Rubio - string the Candidate A along for months, then rule him ineligible... in panic pick establishment backed Candidate B

1) As written the transfer of Citizenship by blood (for better or worse) has always been through the father. Cruz is claiming it through his mother. When the US amended the constitution, it was ONLY giving women the right to vote and never changed citizenship laws. That provision never changed. Hell it used to only be through the father, to the man, if his skin was white. Specific issues have been fixed through amendments but the definition of Natural Born has NOT.

2) There is a difference between Natural and Natural born, and the meaning was implied by common law at the time of writing.

Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution states: "No Person except a natural born Citizen ... shall be eligible to the Office of President." The original structure of the Constitution does suggest that "natural born" was meant to contain a geographic component of birth in the United States. The "Inhabitant" requirements for senators and representatives in Article I of the Constitution clearly were intended to be geographic. Since the qualifications stated for president contain no other obvious parallel geographic reference, it would seem the framers meant the "natural born" citizenship requirement for president to refer to those born geographically in the United States.

The framers, however, contemplated later migration into the United States and authorized Congress in Article I, Section 8, Clause 4 to provide means of acquiring citizenship by naturalization for those who were not natural born citizens. Thus, as originally drafted, the Constitution recognized only two means of acquiring national citizenship – "natural born" citizens (birthright citizenship), and naturalization. Naturalization through blood was one of those additional ways... but is wholly different from Natural Born.

more

The whole issue is waaaay more murky than people want it to be. And at the very least the man who has been arguing for STRICT interpretation of the constitution is going to require a very loose view when it comes to him.

[–]LinearSimconDisillusioned? 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know, a situation with Cruz vs. Hillary could be entertaining, one potentially unable to become president, one ending up in jail? Could open up for a third party in a way never foreseen.

[–]CaptainMegaJuiceVoluntaryist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That would be amazing.

[–]Cato_Keto_Cigars 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I imagine there is a high chance of Bloomberg running regardless. He could pull ~5% of the protest vote... absolutely enough to remind people how awful FPTP / the electoral college is.

[–]columbus5kwalkandrun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't you see the least bad Cruz as very similar to alternatives?

[–]GrizmoblustFallout 5: The Real Life Edition -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. If he didn't endorse mitt, and extract Ron Paul's plan, he could went so far. But nooo, he decided to be a flip flopper. Rand is the biggest idiot in liberty crowd. All of his tactics are downright shit except the filibuster days.

[–]AnarkhonNo rulers 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I see, I am guilty, I should repent for my sins. To whom should I open my ass to be ripped and forgiven?

The only thing I can offer any candidate at all is my vote, nothing else. They have to do all the heavy lifting in order to win the presidency, they know the rules, they know they need to get in bed with heavy donors, make deals with heavy players, that's the game, they will enjoy it, it is their own sacrifice to reap the rewards of being the most powerful man on earth. I get nothing in return except lies, abuse, plunder and sacrifice.

No, I am not a sacrificial animal.

[–]CaptainMegaJuiceVoluntaryist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

More proof that investing your time and money in politics is a waste of time.

/r/Agorism

/r/Ancapraxis

[–]seinfan9Don't tread on me! 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not like it would have mattered much if he became president. The congress would override every one of his vetoes. "Bipartisan" govt would thrive.

[–]patron_vectrasC4L / Catholic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is supposedly a lot of deployment, administrative budget, and executive order changes he could make.

[–]AnarkhonNo rulers 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

He was already in the top five, leaving Bush behind. After NH he would have climbed to the top four, leaving Carson behind.

Then he would quit. Bad timing.

[–]LinearSimconDisillusioned? 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Question is what he traded off for quiting before NH, Cruz is in a tight heat with Rubio and Trump, getting the libertarian-leaning camp over to Cruz could probably be worth some for Cruz? At least that's the deal I imagine happening behind the scenes.

[–]AnarkhonNo rulers 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I bet he traded some juicy exit card to favor somebody else. No doubt about it.

[–]Individualist__ 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

After NH he would have climbed to the top four

He's been polling around 9 in New Hampshire. No way was he going to climb to top 4.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/nh/new_hampshire_republican_presidential_primary-3350.html

[–]AnarkhonNo rulers -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah right, like the polls were right about Cruz beating the shit out of Trump. Show me just one giving Cruz winner in Iowa. We all know polls are manipulated to please the client.

[–]Individualist__ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some of the Monday polls had Trump Cruz Rubio all getting in the 20% range and that's what happened. The end result was within the margin of error.

Fact of the matter is Rand didn't think he'd do well in New Hampshire or he wouldn't have suspended his campaign yet. The polls didn't think he'd do well either. You can ignore the polls if you'd like by I think Rand and his staff have a much better idea of how they're doing than you do.

[–]HemiHaloeleutheromaniac 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Try again in 2020 embracing the full libertarian message, if anything to educate the public, like Ron did.

[–]R_HakIndividualist - Don't Tread on Me! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people (for example Tom Woods and Lew Rockwell) just don't want to admit that a lot of those people who supported Ron were idiots and now support Trump or Sanders. Because they know this is the main reason Rand is doing poorly...

[–]chbrulesBig Words Go Here to Impress Strangers on The Internet 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd rather have Hillary than Bernie. It's that bad.

[–]vivosmith 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am starting to feel that way too. But then Bloomberg will split the liberal vote if Bernie gets nominated. These are very interesting times.

[–]RepeatPotatoeDavid Freed-man 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Rand was a disappointment overall unfortunately. A lost opportunity to get the ideas of liberty heard.

[–]R_HakIndividualist - Don't Tread on Me! 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Some people (for example Tom Woods and Lew Rockwell) just don't want to admit that a lot of those people who supported Ron were idiots and now support Trump or Sanders. Because they know this is the main reason Rand is doing poorly...

[–]RepeatPotatoeDavid Freed-man 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you listen to Tom and Lew talking about each repub debate on Tom podcast, you'll hear that Rand not only had few libertarian stances and had little charisma. Playing the crypto-ancap (if that's what Rand is, which I'm doubting) just doesn't work.

For an ex-Ronite, I can see the marginal appeal of Trump but Sanders? That's in direct opposition to everything Ron stands for. At least Trump is not a SJW, wants to limit the EPA/climate change policies, pro gun, anti-obama care, voucher schools, recognizing the immigration issue and avoid foreign entanglements. There's a least a few remnants of Ron there.

[–]GeneralLeeFrank*Insert Clever Flair* 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, at least Liberty exists outside of politics...

Right?

[–]seinfan9Don't tread on me! 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ultimately, yes. Will you not defend yourself when the shit hits the fan? Many of us prep for a reason. And death is better than enslavement.

[–]Cato_Keto_Cigars 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Serious question- why not just move? There are a half a dozen small Caribbean countries with little to no taxes, and small governments. A few countries even allow yourself to buy instant citizenship (hows that for capitalism!). Seems easier than hunkering and waiting for a fight - all the while living in a country quickly spiraling into authoritarianism.

Even better, by leaving you "starve the beast", and remove financing for the awful things the US does.

[–]seinfan9Don't tread on me! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't have the money to leave with my family, or at least not for the near future. I do okay for myself, but I come from a poor family.

[–]vivosmith 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since Rand is out, Gary is questionable (eminent domain and welfare expansion), I will either vote for Mcaffee, Perry, or Vermin Supreme.

On the topic though, I think more libertarians need to learn to program, explore tax havens and freedom outposts (I visited Panama last year, going to Colombia this year), learn other skills, and work to boost local libertarian organizations in their communities so at the very least things like Agenda 21 and other liberty hating legislation are at the very least blunted until you can find an exit strategy or begin to make real change.

[–]PIGamer86Libertarian Transhumanist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Americans will get the government we deserve.