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all 118 comments-
[–]iamthetio 42 points43 points44 points  (23 children)
Is this not the case in all countries with similar political parties?
[–]ShanghaiNoon 29 points30 points31 points  (19 children)
Yes I remember seeing similar stats with Greece and Golden Dawn and Sweden with their far right party.
[–]Ollesbrorsa [score hidden]  (0 children)
We should remember that the Swedish Democrats focused quite a lot on defence politics before the last election. At least if you compare it to the other parties since they barely touched the subject.
[+]Swedenronnie__pickering comment score below threshold-12 points-11 points-10 points  (17 children)
I would be surprised if the police leaned heavily towards the Sweden Democrats, but the military is a whole other thing. Young people who want to get into the military tend to be somewhat nationalistic and their youth associations (youth home guard and such) are known racism-factories (edit:) which are two categories of opinions that are associated with support for the sweden democrats.
The actual adult recruits I think are kind of moderate.
[–]Rejjep 33 points34 points35 points  (4 children)
But the Sweden democrats aren't racists, even though a lot of its politicians have a history in the far right. The party has cleaned up immensely and can be compared to a early 90s social democrats with their views on immigration.
[–]Swedenronnie__pickering 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
I didn't mean to say they were racist. I guess I should have clarified what I meant.
Many people who are very far-right and support the sweden democrats, want to be in the military. That's what I know. I do not know the actual political orientation of people in the military in general, although the military officer proffession is traditionally associated with support of the Moderates Party (centre-right)
[+]_Alvv_ comment score below threshold[score hidden]  (1 child)
Yea, if we ignore the fact that the majority of it's members (even in parliament) are either openly racist, homophobic, or both.. But only on social media. On traditional media they play nice and look good in their suits, so people vote for them with no clue what they actually stand for and say.
[–]arcedarc 13 points14 points15 points  (10 children)
Army is always filled with conservatives/nationalists. Liberals dont care about their country enough to die for it.
[–]Swedenronnie__pickering -5 points-4 points-3 points  (9 children)
The Moderates are more "liberal" than your american democrats I'd say
[+]TheVedantist comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (8 children)
Why do you automatically assume Americanism? Liberals are quite the same in any country, they all support the same core values (belief in global warming, LGBTQRSTUV+, gun control, etc. etc.)
[–]Latviaginekologs [score hidden]  (1 child)
belief in global warming
I think that better wording would be "not denying".
[–]TheVedantist [score hidden]  (0 children)
Whatever semantic game you wish to play, play it. The context and meaning remain the same.
[–]United Kingdomaapowers [score hidden]  (1 child)
No... Being liberal means believing in the free market and maximising personal autonomy.
Doesn't mean you have to actively support any sort of progressive agenda.
A liberal's mantra would be 'it'll sort itself out, leave it be'.
[–]TheVedantist [score hidden]  (0 children)
I think my definition is better since it seems to fit the meaning of "liberal" in the English language quite well, for both UK and the US.
[–]Swedenronnie__pickering [score hidden]  (3 children)
Because being a "liberal" outside of america means supporting liberalism, not being a gay rights activist.
[–]TheVedantist [score hidden]  (1 child)
Not anymore it doesn't. Liberal Democrats are pretty much US Democrats, to be utterly honest, Tim Farron and Hillary Clinton are identical on everything except foreign policy (and even then, there are a lot of shared ideals, especially on Russia and Iran).
[–]Swedenronnie__pickering [score hidden]  (0 children)
Maybe you're right. The american use of the term is clearly catching on, but I really wouldn't say it's the common use of the word.
[–]sndrtj [score hidden]  (0 children)
However, gay rights etc follow neatly from classical liberal thought. If you believe in the power of the individual, gay rights should be pretty much obvious.
[–]SwedenMelGibsonMeinFuhrer [score hidden]  (0 children)
I can't speak for the police but I have relatives in the army. Most are Moderates. The general view is not that they work for the party, but for the king. It doesnt matter wich party you vote for, but praise be to Knugen the great.
[–]AhAnotherOne 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)
I'd be stunned if 50% of UK Police voted UKIP.
[–]iamthetio [score hidden]  (1 child)
True. I didn't think of UK. I tried to find some statistics but nothing comes up. But, would you compare UKIP with FN? I, honestly, do not know. For me Nigel Farage is more like Donald Trump (a joke dare I say?) than Le Pen. But, still, not sure. If I am right, who is the equivalent of Le Pen in UK?
[–]AhAnotherOne [score hidden]  (0 children)
He's no way a joke figure like Trump. UKIP aren't as right wing as FN or Trump. I'm not sure if we have any mainstream right or left wing parties anymore. In the past BNP but their support was tiny. Despite what others may say the UK is a very centrist country.
[–]MARSBARS11 150 points151 points152 points  (27 children)
These are the chaps on the front line of immigration crime.
[–]hjklhlkj 102 points103 points104 points  (26 children)
So that could be a reason...
[–]10ebbor10 74 points75 points76 points  (16 children)
Alternative explanation. The Front National wants :
  • The justice department to be given a 25% increase in funding.
  • The creation of 40,000 new prison places.
  • Police to have [the assumption of] “legitimate defence” when using their firearms or using force against suspects.
  • Doubling the number of police officers in France’s anti-crime squads.
  • Giving police greater power to tap phones and Internet communications.
All things which would greatly benefit police, at a cost to the government, and the rights of civilians. It's quite clearly that the Front National wants to give more power, and money to police forces.
[–]Canada,Switzerlandawesome_hats 18 points19 points20 points  (15 children)
How does:
  • The justice department to be given a 25% increase in funding.
  • The creation of 40,000 new prison places.
  • Police to have “legitimate defence” when using their firearms or using force against suspects.
  • Doubling the number of police officers in France’s anti-crime squads.
Come at the cost of civilian rights?
  • An increase in funding hurts no ones rights.
  • New prison places in France hurts no ones rights and will probably lead to better conditions for prisoners since there are far too few places at the moment.
  • Using legitimate defence is already a right of civilians why should it not be a right for on-duty officers?
  • Doubling the number of police officers hurts no ones rights and increases their capacity to respond to crime.
The only one you have an argument for is increased tapping of phones and internet communications but you failed to mention that this needs a warrant
[–]10ebbor10 30 points31 points32 points  (12 children)
Number 1,2,4 are those that come at a cost to the government. Number 3 and 5 are those that come at a cost to the rights of civilians.
Number 3, per the FN manifesto, says that it will be assumed that if a police officer shoots someone, it happened in self defense. So, rather than the officer having to prove that he was justified in shooting someone, the person shot (or family) has to prove that the shooting was not justified.
For Number 5, I was solely quoting how the article wrote it. In any case, the FN wants to make it easier and faster for police to tap phones and internet communications.
In any case, the Manifesto has points enough where they want to act harsher and with more power to the police. Also, lots of points about how they want to expand and improve the equipment and stuff of the police force.
[–]Canada,Switzerlandawesome_hats 3 points4 points5 points  (5 children)
Number 3, per the FN manifesto, says that it will be assumed that if a police officer shoots someone, it happened in self defense. So, rather than the officer having to prove that he was justified in shooting someone, the person shot (or family) has to prove that the shooting was not justified.
I would like to give an officer the right to shoot in self defence or defence of others and just make it mandatory for all police to wear body cameras like some regions of North America do now and design them so they can't be turned off. The footage could be encrypted, stored securely and automatically deleted after X number of months for privacy but otherwise is there for use in incidents like a shooting. It would be so much easier to clear up controversy of these types of things.
[–]10ebbor10 3 points4 points5 points  (4 children)
While that would help, it seems to be an excessive and expensive solution, especially considering the problem doesn't really exist in France.
Besides, officers have the right to shoot in self defense. It's just, that if they have shot someone, they have to prove they did it in self defense.
[–]Marokiii [score hidden]  (0 children)
i think you are misunderstanding something. presumed innocence doesnt mean an investigation isnt going to happen, just that officially the cop is presumed to have had a legitimate reason to shoot. its like a PR move for the gov't to be forced to back up the police force publicly. at least until the investigation is finished.
[–]flamesholder -2 points-1 points0 points  (2 children)
Neither excessive nor expensive, given the Moore's law and that computing power becomes cheaper and cheaper.
[–]Hungaryhamarosan [score hidden]  (1 child)
Moore's law ended years ago. It's not true anymore.
[–]10ebbor10 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yup. It used to be every year, than every year and a half, then every 2 years. Now it's every 2 years and a half.
[–]Marokiii [score hidden]  (1 child)
isnt that the way it should work for number 3? presumed innocent until proven guilty? seems like thats the best way for a justice system to work. unless every time a cop shoots someone, hes no longer presumed innocent and is therefore presumed guilty of murder. we should just arrest him on the spot and put him in jail while he awaits any trial that will be happening then.
[–]10ebbor10 [score hidden]  (0 children)
There appears apparently some confusion about how this statement needs to be interpreted. I interpreted it as FN stating the police violence/shootings shouldn't be investigated unless there's more than reasonable doubt that it was not self defense.
You could off course say that it's merely FN wanting to employ the Guilty unless Proven innocent principle, but considering that is already a thing, that means they'd put something in their manifesto that is entirely useless.
I consider that unlikely.
[–]Polandwolfiasty -3 points-2 points-1 points  (3 children)
Number 3
I do understand your concerns, but normally police isn't to be afraid. Bad guys are. In case you are afraid of police being trigger happy either you have problems with law, or French police isn't acting like it should. Which is it unless there is third way ?
[–]10ebbor10 6 points7 points8 points  (2 children)
I consider that the system, as it is now, works fine. France has neither an excess of police shootings, nor an excess of police officer casualties. In addition, trust in police is high due to due process.
Thus, there's no reason to change the law.
[–]Polandwolfiasty -4 points-3 points-2 points  (1 child)
What about big calibre crime rate (not crime rate in general) - homicides, rapes, organized crime groups, trafficking etc. - is it at low rate, decreasing or is it increasing ?
[–]10ebbor10 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
That's not really relevant to the point.
Unless, off course, your suggestion is that removing accountability from police forces will help them in dealing with those things. Which seems to me is a very suboptimal solution.
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Come at the cost of civilian rights?
Assuming the police were justified in drawing and firing weapons could definitely be interpreted as coming at the cost of civilian rights.
It might not, but it seems obvious why one would think it might.
[–]scrogu -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
As an American, I can assure you that doubling the number of police officers does lead to a decrease in rights.
[–]Sixcoup [score hidden]  (2 children)
In France it is literally forbiden for the governement to ask for someone's religion. Which makes stats about religion in prison impossible as well.
So how did they found that number ? Simple, in 2008 an american newspaper looked at one specific prison, count the number of inmates with arabs or african origin, and decided they were all muslim, and that this prison was representative of all the other prison in the country...
Edit : It seems the article didn't use the source i've talked about.
[–]hjklhlkj [score hidden]  (1 child)
Simple, in 2008 an american newspaper looked at one specific prison, count the number of inmates with arabs or african origin, and decided they were all muslim
Do you have sources about that?
I found here that in 2004 a French-Iranian sociologist named Farhad Khosrokhavar published a book giving similar figures (50-80% depending on the prison)
[–]Sixcoup [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yeah you seem to be right, this article seems to take his source in that book.
I was talking about another article posted by the washington post.
I only found the original article, and didn't found the french article explaining in detail how the stat in the original article were extrapolated. I saw it several years ago, but can't remember where.
In the end that doesn't change much, Farhad Khosrokhavar seems to only have counted prison near the "Banlieu" so part of France were the immgrants are in majority. So it's pretty obvious they will also be in majority in prison near these areas.
[–]Virtuallyalive 0 points1 point2 points  (4 children)
Small Correction - Muslim or of Muslim culture - the fact that the article makes this distinction leads me to believe this includes those from Muslim countries who aren't Muslim.
[–]hjklhlkj 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Here's another article that says "Of the 67,500 people currently behind bars in France, it is estimated that 70 per cent are Muslim"
[–]Virtuallyalive 0 points1 point2 points  (1 child)
That only means that the two statistics don't agree, not that either is right.
[–]hjklhlkj [score hidden]  (0 children)
Of course they don't agree, one is from 2014, the other from 2015 and both say they are estimations.
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
They just have to look muslim I guess?
[–]GermanyLATR_Lext0n 70 points71 points72 points  (5 children)
maybe it's because they are the exact people that have to deal with immigrants all day long? just a thought.
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Probably there's more to it than that. Seems to me they have to deal with the bad shit involving immigrants more often. Not 'immigrants' as a whole but criminal immigrants.
Which, while seemingly more numerous than they ought to be, still are only a subset of 'immigrants'.
/u/splergel gives the example of the red cross maybe being more sympathetic because they see the sad shit some immigrants go to more often whereas the police see the sad shit some immigrants do and that these groups then develop their own views based on a limited point of view.
[–]Sixcoup [score hidden]  (0 children)
That has more to do with fascism than immigration to be fair. Thats' the same deal with the french army. What they want is a strong governement/nation, no matter what it takes to achieve that even if it means reducing the population rights.
I'm not even kidding, look at what the police asked the governement to do after the terrorist attacks, it's literally fascist ideology.
And since FN is the closest ideology from fascism we have in France, that's no wonder the police vote for them in majority.
[+]CyprusDigenisAkritas comment score below threshold-6 points-5 points-4 points  (2 children)
No, it's because the military and the police tend to attract the types of people who fantasise about being Rambo, and national "purity". We have a word for it here, στρατόκαυλος - "someone who has an erection about all things military".
The people who actually have to deal with refugees (coast guard, Red Cross volunteers etc etc) tend to be extremely sympathetic, since they get a glimpse of what these people have been through.
[–]Swedensplergel 23 points24 points25 points  (1 child)
The people who actually have to deal with refugees (coast guard, Red Cross volunteers etc etc) tend to be extremely sympathetic, since they get a glimpse of what these people have been through.
I think they get very different samples. The coast guard sees everyone. The Red Cross sees the ones that need aid, which presumably involves a disproportionate number of children and elderly. The police see the ones who have misbehaved to the point where someone called the police. So it would make sense if Red Cross volunteers were more sympathetic to immigrants than the average person, while police were less sympathetic.
[–]CyprusDigenisAkritas [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's not just the different samples. Police and military overwhelmingly attract the stratokavlos types, I don't think this is up for dispute.
[–]The Netherlandsfuturemachine 33 points34 points35 points  (4 children)
Police officers know what immigrant communities are like. Unlike the rich suburbanites in established upper class neighborhoods, who think that multiculturalism is like a children's book with happy, smiling coloured kids
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV [score hidden]  (2 children)
I don't think that's a fair assessment of the people you disagree with.
Nor do I think it's quite as simple as saying "police officers know what immigrant communities are like". Maybe they do. But are all immigrant communities the same? If so, why, if not why not?
What are the actual reasons why 'immigrant communities' are what they are?
More police spending sounds good for the police but would that actually solve the problem? Might make it easier to deal with symptoms rather than the cause.
I personally don't think it's as easy as saying "islam" or "not being european" is the cause and that it's a bit more complicated than that.
I do think things are being handled badly in many regards and I don't like the convenient characterisation of people's concerns as being racist either but it is a more complicated situation than is often seen in political discourse.
[–]The Netherlandsfuturemachine [score hidden]  (1 child)
You just used a lot of words to express that you're afraid to admit that immigration has had major negative results on the social cohesion of European cities. You use the phrase "complicated situation", which allows you to reason the problems away with the magical thinking of: 'it's too hard to think about it, I'll just call it 'complicated' and stop thinking about it'.
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV [score hidden]  (0 children)
Well done you for reading my mind, mate. That is ofcourse exactly what I was thinking.
[–]rtdasd [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not really. The police deal with criminals. So, they'll know what criminal immigrants are like. Social workers or w/e who deal with immigrants will probably have a better understanding of what immigrant communities are like.
[–]lonely_hunter20 5 points6 points7 points  (1 child)
I think this is normal everywhere. Many cops are linked with far rights movements and are experts on fighting/violence.
[–]10ebbor10 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
Not that surprising really, considering many right-ish political parties are all about reinforcing police forces and military and stuff.
[–]Japan_URAMI 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I think that's pretty normal for the police to vote for the right-wing party. A lot of cops here tend to vote for the LDP or Osaka Nishin-Kai, and back in the US most cops I knew were Republicans. Usually the more rightward parties are the ones that want to increase their funding and want them to be tough on crime, so they vote for them.
[–]SuJaes 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
That's quite misleading considering that les Régionales (main elections that occured in 2015) always had a huge abstention rate, though more people showed up for the second round. Still a 40%+ abstention rate.
[–]GarganWolf [score hidden]  (0 children)
And this my friends, is how the scene for a coup is set
[–]INGERLANDZaltPS2 6 points7 points8 points  (15 children)
That's worrying, similarly with how many of Golden Dawns supporters came from the police in Greece, but perhaps that is a harsh comparison as they are extreme in comparison to FN
[–]iamthetio 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
I disagree but in what sense: i am given the impression that greeks are more passionate politically for decades now. It stands to reason their political parties would be as well. FN is just more clever, for its benefit. It cannot say in its country what GD say in theirs. But, as political differences within their ideology, I don’t think they are so far.
[–]Kingdom of EnglandG96Saber 28 points29 points30 points  (13 children)
... Why, precisely, is it worrying? Because you don't agree with the Front Nationale?
[–]dizzee_raskolnikov 1 point2 points3 points  (6 children)
Yeah, from my perspective this is encouraging. There will be riots in Europe soon and hopefully when the time comes the police will join the public rather than blindly defend a corrupt state.
[–]Swedensplergel 1 point2 points3 points  (3 children)
hopefully when the time comes the police will join the public
Well, that depends on just who is doing the rioting.
[–]Doomsday11 4 points5 points6 points  (2 children)
One would assume the natives of those countries.
[–]Sweden/Greecebarismancoismydad -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
Doubt it's going to happen
[–]Doomsday11 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Eh might, considering the crazy bullshit going on in western and central Europe right now.
[–]Jobcv314 -1 points0 points1 point  (1 child)
Riots over what?
[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Disproportionate police spending!
[–]United States of Americaexvampireweekend [score hidden]  (5 children)
I think most people are opposed to fascist parties and the authorities overwhelmingly supporting a fascist party would be very worrying.
[–]SwedenMelGibsonMeinFuhrer [score hidden]  (0 children)
It's pretty much the only option the police forces have to show their disapproval. They are not allowed to go on strike for instance. I dont think the actual numbers that support these parties are this high, its just that they show their discontent.
[–]YsgithrogSarffgadau [score hidden]  (1 child)
How are they fascist?
[–]United States of Americaexvampireweekend [score hidden]  (0 children)
Many of their policies are perfectly aligned with fascism and are showcasing the same tendencies rising fascist parties usually have, like taking a "other" and using hate and fear to obtain votes.
Even in America they would be far-right to the point of fascism.
[–]RedditRoodypoo [score hidden]  (1 child)
Good for France that FN is nowhere near fascist then!
[–]United States of Americaexvampireweekend [score hidden]  (0 children)
Yes they are. Hell 90% of their platform is increasing authority powers to combat the "Muslim threat". It's history repeating itself over and over, I guess Europeans are just too stupid to realize it. As long as it doesn't happen to the same group it will keep happening.
[–]vHAL_9000 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
So much for the left-wing police conspiracy to discredit peaceful Extremists...
[–]m0therv0ck3r [score hidden]  (0 children)
You just used a lot of cops here tend to vote for the police force.
[+]United KingdomLittleDevil1 comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points  (2 children)
Bloody racists!
[–]Kingdom of the Netherlands and 27 sovereign dependenciesIJzerenHertog 8 points9 points10 points  (1 child)
It seems like a chicken-egg question.
Perhaps they vote FN because of what they encounter in their daily job.
[–]United KingdomLittleDevil1 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I'm being sarcastic, I would probably vote FN if I was French. Of course they have the best first hand experience of what is happening to their country, they're not building a persona of people based on media as much as the public might be. They're living it, which is also why most of the border electorates voted for FN more than other parties.
[–]TheVedantist -1 points0 points1 point  (5 children)
These are the parties (Golden Dawn, FN, Jobbik, et. al) that stand up for veterans and veterans' rights, and aren't treated like criminals after their national service--most of which end up getting deployed in the UN, not in places like Iraq.
You'd have to be rather naive not to know why people vote with these parties.
Liberals just don't care about their country enough to die for it.
[–]DenmarkPurgatoryonlegs [score hidden]  (4 children)
"Liberal" is a term used differently in Europe.
[–]TheVedantist [score hidden]  (3 children)
I'm from the UK--I know how to use a word in a language I grew up speaking, thank you very much.
[–]DenmarkPurgatoryonlegs [score hidden]  (2 children)
I assume you by "liberals" refer to left wing voters?
[–]TheVedantist [score hidden]  (1 child)
Not necessarily left--I consider George Galloway a leftist, but certainly not a liberal.
No, Liberals are those Guardianistas who work in The City who meticulously separate and recycle compost from paper, believe in Global Warming, LGBTQRSTUV+ marriage and other sacred dogma, and are generally interventionist on foreign policy, especially towards their Big Bads, Russia and Iran.
As I said, Liberal Democrats in the UK pretty much spell it out for you in their name.
[–]DenmarkPurgatoryonlegs [score hidden]  (0 children)
Quote from the link i posted before:
European liberals in the centre-right generally favor limited government intervention in economy. Most of them adhere to conservative liberalism or liberal conservativism.
European liberals in the centre-left are represented in the major social democrat parties, for example the third way-ers, and they are in favour of liberal socialism or social liberalism.[1] They are divided on the degree of government intervention in economy.
It would seem they're a bit differently placed in the UK then.
In Denmark, liberals are right-wing and generally nationalistic to some degree, here they're trying to achieve lower taxes, more military/police support, less bureaucracy and more efficiency etc.
No, Liberals are those Guardianistas who work in The City who meticulously separate and recycle compost from paper, believe in Global Warming, LGBTQRSTUV+ marriage and other sacred dogma, and are generally interventionist on foreign policy.
Thank you for elaborating, I don't see whats bad in recycling/taking care of the planet though.
Nor do I see an issue with allowing gay people to marry, it doesn't really intervene with everyone else's lives.
[+]CargandoPiedras comment score below threshold-17 points-16 points-15 points  (0 children)
*not people particularly selected by their academic results
[+]Bulgariaednorog comment score below threshold-33 points-32 points-31 points  (0 children)
Quite sickening, this.
[+]ArabianManiac comment score below threshold-58 points-57 points-56 points  (18 children)
Wow your police needs an overhaul.
[–]SwingTits 38 points39 points40 points  (11 children)
You could get in a totally fresh police force and within a year they would all feel the same way. Why? Because the vast majority of French crime is carried out by muslims. 70% of prisoners in France are muslim. 8% of them are French.
edit. added link.
[–]British Republicr155 10 points11 points12 points  (7 children)
That's a statistic I would not have believed without a credible source
[–]50% Sardinia 50% PiedmontElvishCopter 2 points3 points4 points  (5 children)
Prison population is always heavily skewed towards minorities. This happens everywhere.
[–]RedditRoodypoo [score hidden]  (1 child)
Everywhere? Last time I checked, East Asians and Jews were certainly minorities but UNDERrepresented in prisons while being overrepresented in academia.
One minority isn't the other.
[–]50% Sardinia 50% PiedmontElvishCopter [score hidden]  (0 children)
If you want to nitpick on grammar first learn the language. I didn't formulate the sentence to include every minority.
[–]British Republicr155 2 points3 points4 points  (2 children)
Questions need to be asked why this is? If minorities in particular need are over represented with the prison population, this shows there are fundamental problems within the greater society; whether it be cultural cohesion, racism or economic
[–]Finlandbogon_flux 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
this shows there are fundamental problems within the greater society
Yes that would be the minority crime-rate.
Also, "heavily skewed towards minorities" is not the whole thruth. It's heavily skewed towards some minorities. There aren't many jews, asians, or sikhs in prison. So my guess is the system is fine, some cultures aren't.
[–]vHAL_9000 -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
It's mostly more privileged upbringing. Most immigrants start out penniless and probably won't make it out of the ghettos even after multiple generations. They are influenced by poor and violent communities. Middle class or higher immigrants usually came to the country with money and job offers, and they don't greatly differ from the average Frenchman.
[–]Flandersmodomario [score hidden]  (0 children)
It does not list a source. As the article mentions & a few comments in this thread discussed the French government does ask what ones religion is. Said comment also pointed out that a similar statistic was obtained by checking in only a single area with a high % of muslims.
[–]INGERLANDZaltPS2 -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
I don't like your separation of Muslim's and French, are you implying that Muslims cannot be French or are you using the term French to avoid using their distinction of race
[–]LesbienneNoireSoufi 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
are you implying that Muslims cannot be French
They can, but not in large numbers.
[–]Canada,Switzerlandawesome_hats 20 points21 points22 points  (4 children)
Because they vote for the "wrong" party? France is a democratic republic, not an autocratic regime.
[–]RedditRoodypoo [score hidden]  (0 children)
France is a democratic republic, unless its citizens exercise their democratic rights to vote for a party you disagree with!
[+]ArabianManiac comment score below threshold-24 points-23 points-22 points  (2 children)
But isn't FN racist? And racism is officially a crime in France? I just don't get it...
[–]United KingdomCasualview 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
What don't you get? Democracy?
[–]Canada,Switzerlandawesome_hats 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
First of all, no, I do not think that FN is racist. Earlier in their history, they were racist, but the party has recently split away from those components and Le Pen has denounced the split groups as racist and not representative of the current party. They say some things which are sometimes controversial, and have sometimes been brought into court (Le Pen) but they were found not guilty so far. They are anti-immigration in general, but that is not racist. They are sometimes anti-religion but religion is not a race either, it is an ideology. And second, no, just being racist is not a crime in France. Discriminating against others in treatment on the basis of their race is illegal (like if you act on your racism), publishing certain racist things is sometimes illegal, but you can't punish thought crime.
[+]Ani666 comment score below threshold[score hidden]  (0 children)
Not the brightest percent of the society.
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