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(X-post from TiA) "Partially weapons trained" (i.imgur.com)

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[–]Angus_Fraser -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Rape and stuff in included in America's statistics too. And 32,000/312,000,000 chance to die by gun (60% of gun deaths being suicides) ain't bad odds. Better than being beheaded by an immigrant because I'm wearing a military uniform.

[–]obticui 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Well, they are objectively bad odds, by the baseline of pretty much any Western, developed country.

Also the USA's violent crime rates only include forcible rape, with "rape" defined as penetration. The UK's rates include "sexual assualt", which is defined as (and I quote), "intentionally touching another person, the touching is sexual and the person does not consent".

The UK's definition of violent crime is much, much broader than that of the US, and, as I said, if you look at it on a crime-by-crime basis most acts generally thought of as violent crime (like burglary, homicide, assault) are much, much more common in the US.

America has had 60+ school shootings this year. Your rebuttal to that is that the UK had one terrorism-related murder (committed by two people), in 2013? The US had 14 people shot and another 22 wounded in a single terrorist attack by two people this month.

Edit: grammar

[–]Angus_Fraser -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

And most of our murders by gun happen in states with stricter gun control, save Texas who has the drug cartels to deal with. The weird thing about guns is that when you outlaw them, only outlaws will have them. The San Berdino guns were obtained illegally, because California has strict gun control. So, while the citizens were being mowed down, they didn't have guns to fire back with. And with a 32,000/312,000,000 chance of dying by gun (12,800/312,000,000 if I don't count suicide), I'll take those odds any day of the week.

[–]obticui 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

most of our murders by gun happen in states with stricter gun control

This is factually incorrect. There is a strong negative correlation state to state between stricter gun laws and gun deaths.

The weird thing about guns is that when you outlaw them, only outlaws will have them.

I invite you to compare gun death statistics between the US and any comparatively prosperous country with strict gun laws. I also invite you to think about why the two terrorists in the UK (where guns are strictly controlled) managed to kill only one person, while the ones in the US killed 12.

the San Berdino guns were obtained illegally

This is also factually incorrect. They were purchased completely legally in the state of California.

32,000/312,000,000 chance of dying by gun

That is the chance that you will be shot to death each year, not your lifetime as you seem to assume. 33,636 people were shot to death in the USA in 2014 alone. That is not a small number. In comparison, 27,540 men are expected to die from prostate cancer in the US in 2015.

[–]Angus_Fraser -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Correlation does not equal causation. I could point out that those states with high gun deaths also have higher black population and make a correlation that way, but correlation doesn't equal causation. A lot of those states are in the South as well. Does that mean that's the cause too?

The UK still has a higher violent crime rate.

And 60% of gun deaths in the USA are suicude and 80% of intentional homicides in the USA are gang-related. So, if you're not planning on offing yourself and you don't hang around ganglands those numbers fall significantly.

[–]obticui 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still waiting on any sources to back up literally anything you say. I've explained why the US has a factually higher violent crime rate than the US, with actual statistics for actual crimes, and I've refuted every point you've made, with sources. Instead of responding you're just constantly moving the goalposts. I could point out how the US has a lower level of immigration than much of Europe, how gang shootings cause many bystander injuries, how most people who attempt suicide are not depressed, have suffered a temporary bereavement and have not planned it for anything close to a long time... But you'll just plug your ears, change topics, and keep arguing.

Saying that a country has a particular weak point is not an insult, to the country itself or its citizens. Every place has a statistic it's low on. Most people, American or English or whatever, don't interpret facts about a certain system as a personal attack. You seem to. Maybe think on why.