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Info on German citizenship by ancestry (self.germany)

irawizard が 投稿

I was told by a friend to look into possibly having German citizenship based on ancestry. I've found that Germany's citizenship is based on jus sanguinis, and it boils down to if your father was German then you're German. There doesn't appear to be any restriction on how many generations removed from a resident you are so theoretically I may be able to "recover" German citizenship even though I'm 4th generation American. The hiccups I know I may face are that my "right of blood" becomes invalid if at any point an ancestor lost or renounced German citizenship. I haven't been able to find a clear answer on if Germany revokes citizenship during naturalization to another country, or more importantly if they did in 1898. I'm still researching this but thought someone here may be able to point me in a good direction for resources on the subject or have some familiarity with the process or impediments I may face. Thanks in advance!

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[–]w1ntrmuteNiedersachsen 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's not how it works. Your father would have to be a German citizen by the time of your birth. You cannot retroactively get German citizenship via descent from your grandparents.

The exception would be the case of Jews expelled during the 3rd Reich.

[–]froeseEurope 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, this is a common misunderstanding. The Abstammungsprinzip is very clear: you are a German citizen the moment you are born to a German father (or mother after 1975.) Therefore if OP's great-grandfather was born abroad before great-great-grandfather became a naturalized citizen of the new country, then clearly the great-grandfather would be German (and, assuming "jus soli", a dual citizen.) As such, when OP's grandfather was born, he also became a German (& dual) citizen, even if the great-grandfather never got a German passport or ausweis. Actual citizenship is determined by birth, not by paperwork (granted you need documents to prove your citizenship.) So, continuing in this vein, OPs father (or mother, assuming young Redditor) would also be German citizen without realizing it. Therefore, yes, it is possible that OP is already a German citizen!

Granted, there are all kinds of caveats (such as serving in a foreign military), and it will require getting certified copies of IDs, birth certificates, marriage certificates, and/or death certificates from each generation. I just had an American friend send in all the paperwork for a Staatsangehörigkeitsausweis based on her German immigrant great-grandfather.

This loophole was finally closed 1/1/2000. From now on, German children born abroad will not be able to pass on their German citizenship to their children born abroad unless their own birth was reported to nearest embassy or consulate before their first birthday.

[–]irawizard[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Thanks for the reply. I've opened dozens of pages on the subject and I'm trying to find the relevant text again. I know that you can't have citizenship reinstated unless it was unjustly revoked as in the case you mention. What I think I'm referring to is the lack of any requirement of living in Germany to retain citizenship combined with the ability to inherit it. So unless someone renounced it, my grandfather should have citizenship because his father did and so on down the line. So I'm not talking about naturalization or reinstatement, but more inheritance. Is this not the case? I'll reply with the documentation if I can find it again, right now all I have open is an infographic an immigration lawyer made.

[–]hanshotfirst1899Baden 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

You aren't going to be able to get citizenship 4 generations down the line, full stop.

If your dad wasn't a registered citizen when you were born then neither are you.

[–]irawizard[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks. I know someone who was issued a German passport (and presumably is a citizen) despite being a 3rd generation American. He did not naturalize and went to Germany for the first time to accomplish this. I don't know the specifics of his situation other than what I describe in the original post. For the record this is the documentation I was looking at.

Description of German citizenship by descent: http://www.germany.info/Vertretung/usa/de/05__Dienstleistungen/02__Staatsangehoerigkeit/01__Erwerb/__Erwerb.html

Application for confirmation of nationality allowing for tracing ancestry several generations: http://www.germany.info/contentblob/3501690/Daten/1491420/CitizenshipHelpMerkblatt_PDF.pdf

[–]segelahBayern 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

no you don't; or rather you don't know their full story.

[–]w1ntrmuteNiedersachsen 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You don't have to renounce your German citizenship. You automatically lose it in case you take on a new one and there is no agreement on dual citizenship which in case of the US means that you ancestor lost his German citizenship.

[–]irawizard[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is what I was afraid of. I was just hoping it may have not been the case in the 1800s.

[–]froeseEurope -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It all hinges on when your German immigrant greatn grandfather became a naturalized citizen of the new country (I'm assuming US or Canada.) If it happened even one day after your greatn-1 grandfather was born, then clearly he was also a German citizen (and again assuming new-world "jus soli" citizenship rules, also a life-long dual citizen.) Then it just runs down the male line until 1975, when it could be either parent, unless someone along the line did something to revoke his/her German citizenship. And, you are right, it is not naturalization or reinstatement; you could already be a German citizen (meaning no language or other tests.)

[–]annuges 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

You already got your answer, but as an additional sanity check:

There are over 50 million people in the U.S. who claim a German heritage. If your initial interpretation were true, they'd all be German citizens as well.

That is around 2/3rds of the total population of Germany

[–]bellhead1970 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

More people claim German heritage in the US than any other ethnic group in the United States. German's are the largest ethinic group in the US. Here is a map that shows this in detail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408591/American-ethnicity-map-shows-melting-pot-ethnicities-make-USA-today.html

In the 3 German heritage cities, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Cincinnati German was spoken and taught in schools up until WW I.