上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 497

[–]TechnicallyITsCoffee 224ポイント225ポイント  (25子コメント)

My wife's great grand parents and grand parents were deported despite having been here for 30 years. (Option to go to a camp in the interior or leave the country-fisherman who didn't fancy leaving the coast)

Her great grandpas land was taken and never returned.

The silver lining is that her grand parents met each other in Japan as they were deported together. Ended up being married and are still kicking in their mid 90s.

Hard to imagine how shitty it would be to get shoved on a boat and sent across the world.

Edit: might not have been obvious deported from Vancouver and returned to Vancouver after the war.

[–]iPackPixels 39ポイント40ポイント  (13子コメント)

I think they could claim money for that with paperwork of course.

[–]cmckone 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

too bad nobody being deported like that actually had the proper paperwork

[–]bobthegenebuilder 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

WOPs - without papers :P

(Yes, many in my family were WOPs)

[–]Berimbozo 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

kinda sorta, my ex's grandparents were offered a pittance of the worth of their land when they got out of the camps but since they had literally nothing left they had to sign the dotted line and accept it.

[–]Johnnyfiftyfive 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

Makes sense, worth looking into. Reparations are always being updated and paid for because of the governments irrational behavior.

[–]VerisimilarPLS 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Canadian government does offer reparations but somehow I doubt it's enough money for anything other than the symbolism. EDIT: "The package for interned Japanese Canadians included $21,000 to each surviving internee, and the re-instatement of Canadian citizenship to those who were deported to Japan." in 1988 dollars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment#Redress

[–]devynci 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's pretty significant. Almost $37,000 in today's money, if they would adjust for inflation.

[–]VerisimilarPLS 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

For up to 8 years of internment or deportation, confiscation that sometimes didn't return the properties confiscated?

[–]WeeBabySeamus 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

Deported to Japan??? Wow that is incredibly fucked up. Would be fascinating to hear stories of how they were received and how they adjusted/found their way

[–]AloueiCMX 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

I don't get how it was logical to send your own citizens back to a country that is currently fighting you and give them a reason to fight you...

[–]beregond23 368ポイント369ポイント  (16子コメント)

And TIL that America had Japanese internment camps like Canada.

(I'm Canadian if you couldn't tell)

[–]mrthewhite 102ポイント103ポイント  (11子コメント)

Your clearly not paying enough attention to George Takai

[–]whatIsThisBullCrap 105ポイント106ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well duh, we were all listening to David Suzuki instead

[–]Mi11ionaireman 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The only reason why i know we had intern camps was because of him.

[–]Rehendix 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was a topic during Elementary school in Ontario to the best of my knowledge. Part of Grade 8 History I think.

[–]CasualFridayBatman 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bing Crosby's snowman in the Rudolph movies always reminded me of David Suzuki

[–]get-a-brain-morans 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just saw that classic twilight zone episode with George Takai the other day. Where a Japanese American and a WW2 vet are locked in an attic together, and they slowly turn on each other. It was a good one.

[–]ewa50 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And George Takei is saying the same thing, so listen to him too!

[–]cowboyrt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's true - and we feel really bad about it

[–]riotactress 104ポイント105ポイント  (30子コメント)

The Canadian government offered a formal apology in 1988, along with something like $20,000 to each interred or displaced Japanese-Canadian as redress. My grandparents were part of the displaced group, forced to move from the west coast to an isolated town in the mountains, to prevent their access to waterways and therefore, to "other" Japanese spies.

For what it's worth, Japanese-Canadians have not generally allowed this period to be the determining force in their lives. They are not bitter or vindictive or angry at Canada, and have genuinely accepted the apology. My family definitely hid their culture a bit after that, teaching their kids English but not Japanese and sending PBJ sandwiches and not fish eggs and rice for lunch. It's sad, but it's in the past and certainly all of my extended family has moved on.

[–]AtomizedApple 28ポイント29ポイント  (3子コメント)

U.S did the same thing when Ronald reagan was president i think

[–]Dappled_Fish 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I used to live in the part of BC where the internment camps were. There is a museum in New Denver where you can see the accommodations and lifestyle they were forced to live in. Very sobering, and well worth the tour.

Every other camp either burnt down in forest fires or were dismantled and reclaimed by the forest. So it's great that the museum is there to remind us of the mistakes in our past.

[–]bobthegenebuilder 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've lived in Western Canada for the better part of a decade and not known that existed. I'm going to visit that before I leave.

[–]lonewangler 15ポイント16ポイント  (16子コメント)

Same thing for Ukrainians (also interred in Canada at one point) and the poor during the Great Depression (sent off to work camps on the prairies) and the Natives up until living memory — Canada has been a truly shit country to a great many peoples. It is a shameful history.

[–]NaturalSelectionDied 6ポイント7ポイント  (13子コメント)

Why the Ukrainians?

[–]Cthulu2013 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because Ukrainian socials are a nuisance

[–]badwolf 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

During WWI both Ukrainian and German residents were interned. The Ukrainian population in Canada is just massive so people mainly remember the Ukrainian side. Why Ukrainians? Because they were all citizens or former citizens of Austria.

What does Austria have to do with Ukrainians? Well, Austria was very big and very multi-ethinic prior to WWI. Austria contained a big chunk of what is now Western Ukraine, i.e., the parts that are predominately Ukrainian Catholic rather than the Ukrainian Orthodox norm. Eastern Austria was run by Hungary; the Hungarians were the most powerful ethnicity in Austria after the Germans and this would eventually evolve into the "Dual Monarchy" and be known as "Austria-Hungary". The Hungarians jealously guarded their #2 position by repressing the other minorities, notably the Ukrainians. There were so small pushes from the German side to create a sort of "United States of Austria" giving representation to all minority groups but these were blocked by the Hungarian side.

How did the Ukrainians get to Canada? Starting in the 1890s Ukrainians in Austria fled Hungarian oppression on mass. This was great timing as far as Canada was concerned. We had massive underpopulated areas Western Canada: what is now the prairie provinces. Canada was living under the constant American aggression: settlers coming north, rail road being run strategically close to the boarder, American politicians talking about annexing Western Canada. The prairies needed to be settled and settled quick. There was a real fear it could turn into a Texas type situation where American settlers moved in and took over with the support of the US army. Previous attempts to settle the prairies with Jews fleeing pogroms in Russia had failed miserably: these Jews had been forced to live in urban ghettos and restricted to limited urban careers for hundreds of years -- trying to turn them into peasant farmers overnight was a bad idea in hindsight; they had no farming background and very few made the transition successfully especially with how little support they were given.

At the high point, roughly half the population of the prairies were Ukrainian, especially in Alberta. Much like BC's backlashes agains Japanese/Chinese/Indian immigrants, there were big backlashes agains the Ukrainian new comers and a lot of racism directed against them. In a very similar pattern that would be repeated in BC with the Japanese in WWII, this racism was whipped up into furor during WWI and the Ukrainians had their citizenships revoked and they were removed from their lands and interned. This in spite of the fact that they had fled persecution in Austria and had no reason to love or help their former homeland. The worst part was that many Canadian soldiers of Ukrainian background fighting on the front lines in Europe found out by mail that their entire families back home had been stripped of their citizenship and land and interned. A dark moment in our history for sure.

(Side note, it was the same legislation, the Wartime Elections Act of 1917, that first granted women the vote federal that stripped Ukrainians of their citizenship. The "Famous Five" who led the suffragette movement where also staunch opponents of non-White immigration and saw their gain as a chance to take Canada back from the large number non-White immigrants to Canada: such a Ukrainians whom they considered non-White or at least not White enough. We celebrate them but brush this part under the rug.)

(Final side note, just as Vancouver is often known by the racial epitaph "Hongcouver", Edmonton is often known by the racial epitaph "Edmonchuck". "A chuck" being a racial slur against Ukrainians specifically and Eastern-Europeans generally. Much like "a honger".)

(Final final side note, of course this is a lot more complicated than I've presented here and the above has many flaws. Void in Quebec.)

[–]clearsimpleplain 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Perogies are so fucking delicious for something so strange looking, I can see why people would find Ukrainians suspicious.

[–]AloueiCMX 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

It looks like a ravioli in the shape of a potsticker.

[–]NaturalSelectionDied 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know what that is but I don't trust it for a second.

[–]badmoodraptor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was during WW1. Part of Ukraine was in Austro-Hungarian Empire wich was an enemy at that point

[–]bazingabrickfists 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Different time, different generation in a few of these circumstances.

[–]mcsher 573ポイント574ポイント  (216子コメント)

but... this doesn't fit with reddit's narrative that US is the devil and Canada is perfect

[–]TechnicallyITsCoffee 423ポイント424ポイント  (97子コメント)

We had native schools that were far worst then the Japanese camps

[–]dkl415 33ポイント34ポイント  (31子コメント)

Is there analysis of how they compare to the United States schools'? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_Indian_Industrial_School

[–]mrmikemcmike 66ポイント67ポイント  (14子コメント)

It ran until 1918? Pssshhhhh our last one closed in 1996.

All sarcasm aside, residential schools are a horrible part of our past. It's because of this that pretty much every kid is taught about them in school. Although they changed a lot during the time they existed, they still represent a nationwide attempt to destroy the an entire culture before it could be passed on to the next generation.

[–]rikushix 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's actually only very recently that residential schools have been a mandatory part of provincial high school curricula in Canada. I graduated in BC in 2007 and IIRC there was nothing about it in socials in the early to mid 2000's. The Japanese internment camps though, yes (possibly because it's harder to avoid, huge populations of Japanese here in BC were moved away to camps and their assets forcibly sold as opposed to some other provinces where not much happened).

Anyway, I may be mistaken about the residential schools but I believe it's only now becoming mandatory in many jurisdictions to teach about it. Didn't stop me from paying attention to it getting discussed on the news though.

edit: seems every Canadian on this page says they were taught about them so clearly I missed something but I swear this certainly wasn't explored in school in the detail or the depth that it's being discussed now.

[–]deimios [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I graduated in Ontario in 1998 and also didn't learn about them in History, only found out about them by listening to the news (but did learn about internment camps when we covered WW2).

[–]Confrere 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I graduated BC high school 2012, and I remember learning about residential schools in elementary school, and I only remember the Japanese interment camps being taught late in high school.

[–]Yakuza_ 19ポイント20ポイント  (14子コメント)

Well, that was better than I expected.

[–]Irishman318 9ポイント10ポイント  (13子コメント)

[–]cleeprevo 26ポイント27ポイント  (9子コメント)

This is huge reason why a lot of aboriginal communities will be struggling for a long time. I never read into it this deep. I knew the impact it had but man, this is fucking morbid to read.

[–]bobthegenebuilder 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Any time Canadian's get on their high horse over how black-white racism isn't a thing in Canada, I like to point this out.

Shameful as hell. And most Canadians don't know how bad it really was.

[–]bigmakbc 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do they? I learned about residential schools throughout high school. Maybe those educated before the last one closed in '96

[–]rocketsocks 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a related question. How do you feel about the British Empire in general? Mostly good? Mostly bad? Somewhere in the middle?

Even when history isn't 100% whitewashed it's still often presented in a very biased manner by portraying atrocities as accidents or one off events rather than systematically perpetrated.

[–]kgreej 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You learn about them, sure, but you aren't taught the full extent of them because you aren't taught colonial history past grade 7 or so (12 years old). Of course YMMV.

[–]salami_inferno 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

We were definitely taught colonial history all throughout highschool.

[–]mikeeg555 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

...between 1894 and 1908, mortality rates at some residential schools in Western Canada ranged from 30% to 60% over five years.

Well that's not good for business.

[–]TheInternetHivemind 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's fine when it is mandatory.

[–]Tak7ics 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you know we also treated the Irish orphans the same way.

[–]Cyglml 5ポイント6ポイント  (9子コメント)

And the Japanese had similar things for the Okinawan children.

[–]mcsher 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

... did they not consider them to be Japanese?

[–]bobthegenebuilder 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

that US is the devil and Canada is perfect

I though it was that Europe was a socialist Utopia and Canada was a second best option?

[–]Discocherry 30ポイント31ポイント  (5子コメント)

My grand father and great aunt spent some of their childhood in those camps. He didnt really like to talk about it but the few stories i did hear were pretty messed up 1. Their mother was beaten infront of them for not knowing the english word for bathroom 2. My grand father was made to watch his sister get raped multiple times 3. They cut off the tips of his middle and ring fingers.

They were no where near as bad as the Jewish ones how ever still fucked up. There was also a stigma against asians when my dad was growing up.

[–]Sciencetist 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I'm gonna call BS on this one. Everything I've heard about the Canadian internment camps says that they were racist in nature, but no one was ever in danger, or abused. Their things were taken from them, but everything was even returned after they were released from the camps.

[–]rocketsocks 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Canadian_internment#Camp_conditions

General conditions were poor enough that the Red Cross transferred fundamental food shipments from civilians affected by the war to the internees.

Let that sink in for a moment.

In one incident, fifteen men who had been separated from their families and put to work in Slocan Valley protested by refusing to work for four days straight. Despite attempts at negotiation, the men were eventually informed that they would be sent to the Immigration Building jail in Vancouver for their refusal to work.

Their property was sold for a pittance, at the end of WWII they were given the choice to move to Japan or to the East of the rocky mountains, their rights were not restored to full citizenship until 1949.

[–]PizzaPieMamaMia 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

WTF? Is this real? Which camp was he at?

[–]TheInternetHivemind 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

WTF?

Nobody gets out clean from a total war. You're mobilizing society at every level for the expressed purpose of killing people. What do you expect?

[–]LaLongueCarabine 17ポイント18ポイント  (81子コメント)

That's why this is not widely known. In certain subs this would get removed.

[–]J-Cee 90ポイント91ポイント  (22子コメント)

Every kid in Canada learns about this in school, it's a widely known thing in canada

[–]truncatedChronologis 53ポイント54ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah and one of our more public figures, the environmentalist David Suzuki, often speaks about his experiences in the camps.

[–]TechnicallyITsCoffee 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the prime minister (Stephen Harper) was working on some kind of further reputation package for victims. Hard though most are dead and our First Nations system doesn't really work well. Unfortunately not something that throwing money really helps as many tribes are corrupt

[–]StoneGoldX 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The Canadian Sulu. Wait, that may actually be Shatner.

[–]bobthegenebuilder 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

More Spock.

The guy was a decent scientist at one point, despite having his mom do fly pushing for him :P

[–]poopmeister1994 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I can vouch for this guy- it's taught in history class and we look at it as one of the darkest chapters in our country's history

[–]Arfmeow 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm from Texas, and I knew about these camps for a while.

[–]RUEZ69 73ポイント74ポイント  (49子コメント)

It's widely known in Canada, but Americans don't pay a lot of attention to history outside of their borders.

[–]StoneGoldX 40ポイント41ポイント  (4子コメント)

Eh, be honest, you wouldn't know anything about American history if we weren't so good at telling everyone about American history.

[–]bobthegenebuilder 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

... which is why Canadians seem to know more about American history than they do their own.

[–]Wyatt_Rivers 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

As in the American government, American media, American school system, or the American People? Because as an American I certainly try to. I hate this whole "if you're an American you're a self centered douchebag" thing. I disagree with a lot of what my federal, and state, government does including having a say in what is taught at school but that doesn't mean that Americans don't care about other countries histories or current affairs

[–]bobthegenebuilder 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

A lot of the rest of the civilized world does differentiate between American citizens and their government/corporations.

American foreign and domestic policy freaks us out. The average American person is a pretty OK person to have beers with.

It feels like some perverse farce to see decent people have such a fucked up government. What system enables that?

[–]Joon01 -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

"All Americans are ignorant morons!"

Keep telling us all how amazingly polite you are, Canada. More polite than everyone else. Which is also a douchey thing to say but gets upvoted every single time. I offer now as the time for Canadians to start sucking their own dicks.

[–]eartburm 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I... I can't reach. Teach me, Sensei.

[–]lonewangler 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

I offer now as the time for Canadians to start sucking their own dicks.

Can confirm: Canadian dicks are so long and wide that Canadian men can, if they so choose, fellate themselves. Source: Am Canadian.

[–]Arfmeow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a Texan. I'm also a renowned Geographer, Historian, and Cultural Examiner.

[–]Zwoops 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's very widely known though. There are even children's books about it - Naomi's Road by the wonderful and respected Canadian author Joy Kogawa touches on this subject very well.

[–]Poemi 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ask my Tumblr network why this was never mentioned.

[–]Ratfor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's one of the reasons we're so, so sorry.

[–]loneblustranger 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm Canadian. On my mother's side, I'm white, third-generation Canadian (all of my great-grandparents immigrated here from the UK). My father's side is of Japanese descent, and goes back four generations of Canadian birth.

Guess which of my parents was born in an internment camp.

[–]FlexMurphy 27ポイント28ポイント  (8子コメント)

Yup. My grandfather was stationed at one of those internment camps. never really talked about other than mentioning he was always confiscating 2-way radios "the Japs" would have hidden away.

It's not that surprising really. The Japanese military was as brutal as ISIS is and look at how eager some people are to go with Trump's plan to ban Muslims from coming to America because of ISIS.

I don't agree with it at all, but people are people and they do stupid things when they're afraid.

[–]idontknow1122[S] 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

I would hazard to say Japanese pow camps where worse then ISIS is. I mean live human experimentation and while they did not have the numbers the Nazi's did they were as bad if not worse.

[–]mf-the-supervillain 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

How are interment camps as bad as Isis?

[–]idontknow1122[S] 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ment like what they do to prisoners.

[–]mf-the-supervillain 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Misread your comment. Carry on

[–]Doisha 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think he's saying that the pow camps that were held by the Japanese Imperial Army, who then starved, tortured, forced into labor, experimented on, and executed enemy combatants and civilians were as bad as the nazis.

Not the US/Canadian internment camps, which weren't exactly a summer camp, but I think they seem like one compared to Auschwitz..

[–]duglarri 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The RCMP and Canadian military both advised that the internment project was unnecessary. The provincial politicians who pushed the plan were pure racists, and by the way picked up huge tracts of land for pennies on the dollar. I have a school friend whose family was connected and bought up large properties on Gabriola and Saturna islands for next to nothing.

[–]RedditIsMyAddiction 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Some of those interned remained in the Interior after the war: if you're ever in Lethbridge, Alberta, check out the Nikka Yuko Japanese Gardens. Something beautiful did come out of those ugly times.

[–]Zwoops 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh I just googled it - absolutely gorgeous!

[–]Snowfie-b 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Nikkei Internment Memorial Centre in New Denver is similar. It's a museum within the old internment houses and is conjoined with the Kohan Garden which is a community supported appreciation of the Japanese heritage.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_NUNS 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

David Suzuki was in a Canadian internment camp.

[–]n0remack 20ポイント21ポイント  (20子コメント)

I love how my country is painted as this wonderful land, which it is...
but my god we definitely have a dark history of terrible human rights records.

[–]ewa50 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

Welcome to the brotherhood of nations.

As a species, we are generally shitty to each other until someone makes us notice it.

I would hate to have been alive in any other time than this.

[–]the_person 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The weird thing is that sort of stuff was normal back then. I wonder what normal thing for us will be totally strange in 50 years.

[–]SolidarityForAll 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Destroying our enviroment for unsustainable economic growth ?

[–]Bonapartist 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

America's reaction is much more understandable if you read about the never-ever-talked-about-for-some-reason Nihau Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

I'll just quote it because quoting wikis is classy

"The Niʻihau incident (or Battle of Niʻihau) occurred on December 7, 1941, when Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service pilot Shigenori Nishikaichi (西開地 重徳 Nishikaichi Shigenori) crash-landed his Zero on the Hawaiian island of Niʻihau after participating in the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was killed in a struggle with people on the island.

The island's Native Hawaiian residents were initially unaware of the attack, but apprehended Nishikaichi when the gravity of the situation became apparent. Nishikaichi then sought and received the assistance of three locals of Japanese descent in overcoming his captors, finding weapons, and taking several hostages. Eventually, Nishikaichi was killed by Niihauans Benehakaka "Ben" Kanahele and Kealoha "Ella" Kanahele;[1] Ben Kanahele was wounded in the process, and one of Nishikaichi's confederates, Yoshio Harada, committed suicide.

The incident and the actions of Nishikaichi's abettors demonstrated the potential for racial or ethnic allegiance to overwhelm national allegiance; this ultimately may have influenced the decision to intern Japanese Americans during World War II. Ben Kanahele was decorated for his part in stopping the incident; Ella Kanahele received no official recognition.[1]"

In a sense, a few Japanese-Americans took the acid test for their whole people on one of the darkest days in American history, and they fucking failed.

[–]ewa50 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Just to be clear they were not even slightly Japanese-Americans. They were Japanese nationals.

Hawaii in 1941 was only "America" in the sense that the US had occupying forces there.

Please come to Hawaii, and learn the history from our point of view. There is a reason why the US has had to repeatedly apologize for invading and overthrowing the legitimate government of the sovereign and allied nation of Hawaii. Hawaii was not America in 1941. The largest group of residents, then and to a great extent now, were Japanese. At that point they were Japanese nationals. Now they are Japanese-Americans of course.

Or go to the islands of Micronesia, particularly Guam, which was invaded and held by the Japanese. The Guamanians repeatedly asked for recognition as citizens of the US, but were rebuffed repeatedly. FDR's rationale? "Of course, Guamanians cannot become citizens; they are Orientals." Even now they lack sovereignty and voting rights.

Calling Hawaii or Guam in 1941 "America" is somewhat like calling Iraq "America" in 2008. Yeah there's a sense in which, if you squint just right, you can see it that way.

That was a whole war fought for colonial possessions in the Pacific. Japan was not invading the US, and the US was not invading Japan. They were just fighting over colonial possessions.

[–]Bonapartist 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be clear, 2 of the 3 traitors were born in Hawaii. Is your point that it was in no way treasonous for two Hawaiian born Japanese to help the downed pilot and attempt murder upon fellow Hawaiians, despite their living on an island that was part of US territory since the 19th century? Is your point that it's less of a treason, or that these Hawaiian Japanese should not be conflated with American Japanese, who would not be as likely to aide a Japanese invasion as these were? Is it that they were treasonous against Hawaii, not America? Two of them were born in Hawaii, to be clear, so we'll just call them Hawaiian Japanese.

"That was a whole war fought for colonial possessions in the Pacific. Japan was not invading the US, and the US was not invading Japan. They were just fighting over colonial possessions."

Japan fought almost to the bloody end. They committed horrific atrocities, including against allied POWs. They were willing to throw their women and children into the effort in Operation Downfall, they didn't give a fuck. These acts to me don't really support the theory of a colonial power just trying to get some sweet new islands while keeping their global standing as high as possible. They posed a significant threat to American sovereignty. What do you think of their attacks on the west coast and the attempted slipstream balloon bombings? Just harmless terror ops? I could understand that view, but don't share it.

I've been to Hawaii. It's amazingly beautiful, wish I were there now. It's worth mentioning that the two starring native Hawaiians in this tale are incredible heroes who risked death and came out victors.

[–]bukkakesasuke 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

His point is that comparing Japanese in colonial Hawaii to Japanese-Americans on the mainland was not a good idea.

Americans reacted xenophobically because of the incident you posted, and history has shown that it was the wrong idea to put Japanese Americans in internment camps because they are not comparable to those three Japanese people in colonial Hawaii as he said. Neither of you is "wrong".

Japan fought almost to the bloody end.

Yep. Over colonial possessions (not just the Pacific, but also colonizing mainland Asia) and then their homeland. Your last paragraph has nothing to do with his point. He never said they didn't fight and do terrible things...

[–]Bonapartist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

My point at the last was merely that, if the Japanese and their allies had been more successful, I think they would of happily divided up America on paper and then attempted to conquer it in reality. He seemed to be implying they weren't a real threat to American sovereignty, which I disagree with if so.

[–]bukkakesasuke 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will upvote both you and the person you are responding to because you both provided new perspectives. I hope neither of you get lost in a Reddit "ONLY ONE CAN BE RIGHT" downvote hailstorm.

[–]bobjobob08 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's very interesting... I was unaware of this, thanks for sharing.

Secret to success in government: commit racial atrocity, but have good reason at the time. Apologize years later as a nice gesture, long after an apology no longer really matters. Trump's got this all figured out!

[–]koh_kun 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

it's funny how I'm a first generation immigrant to Canada and all my buddies were like "we're so sorry man..." when this topic came up in class. Also, they'd also look at me like an enemy combatant when talking about Pearl Harbour and other battles involving Japan, even though I'm from Okinawa and we basically just got double penetrated by the Japanese and Americans during the war.

[–]marino1310 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much every country has done some fucked up shit at some point.

[–]teen_burger_combo 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

We also had internment camps for Ukrainians and Germans in both wars. People often gloss over that part in history.

[–]mrshatnertoyou 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

In the wake of the Japanese attacking Hong Kong, the Philippines and Pearl Harbor in which 2000 Canadians were involved, Canadians put a large focus onto Japanese-Canadians even through innocent. Japan seemed to be able to attack along the Pacific and Canada could potentially be next. Canadian Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King implemented the War Measure Act and Defense of Canada Regulations therefore they could not get involved with Canadian services along with the Italians and Germans. The Japanese were stripped of possessions as they were auctioned off later on. The intense cold winters made it hard to live as the Japanese were placed in camps; these campers were made of Japanese immigrants and Japanese-Canadians. They lived in barns and stables which were used for animals, therefore unsanitary. It took 5 years after the war for the Japanese to gain their rights. Compensations were given but was not enough to cover for the loss of properties. Over 22,000 Japanese were put into these camp.

Pertinent excerpt.

[–]idontknow1122[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks how do i get the redirect to that paragraph when linking?

[–]GarMc 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can't change your link, but for future reference you would click on the pertinent section in the table at the beginning of the article (in this case Section 8.5). It redirects you to the section, adding a # and the name of the section to the URL.

So it would read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner-of-war_camp#Canadian_camps

[–]Amphibialrabies69 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

There are mountains named after Japanese people from those camps in Alberta. Mt. Baldy in Kananaskis in Alberta had a camp at the base and they'd allow people to climb it just as long as they promised to return.

[–]Simple10Jack 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I spent years going to summer camp right under Mount Baldy. The camp is right where an internment camp was. I've hiked it dozens of times. The bunk beds we stayed in were old and rusty and we were told they were the original bunk beds that the interned Japanese slept in during the second world war.

[–]aintitabitch 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

ITT: Canadians' prolific, and predictable, apologies.

[–]Revolver___Ocelot_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But muh "canadians are nice" meme.

[–]SBP1598 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I once had a similar TIL moment when I discovered that the Americans had Japanese internment camps like the Canadians.

[–]Beast815 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

We also had Italian interment camps, was just reading about it the other day.

[–]tucci0071 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They also locked up Italians and expropriated property from them.

[–]abreast 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I liked this part:

"There are claims that conditions in the Canadian camps tended to be better than average, and many times better than the conditions of the barracks that Canadian troops were kept in. It is believed by some that this treatment foiled many escape attempts before they even started. Notably, it is told that a group of German prisoners returned to Ozada camp after escaping because of encountering a grizzly bear."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_Canada

[–]Amphibialrabies69 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well these weren't like German concentration camps or Japanese pow camps. There was a camp near me where they were allowed to climb a near by mountain if they promised to return. So while the camps weren't paradise I'd certainly choose them over a Grizzly

[–]tit_wrangler 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

...sorry

[–]JoseJimeniz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_of_Canada_Regulations

waiving of habeas corpus and the right to trial, internment, bans on political and religious groups, restrictions of free speech including the banning of certain publications, and the confiscation of property. Section 21 of the Regulations allowed the Minister of Justice to detain without charge anyone who might act "in any manner prejudicial to the public safety or the safety of the state."

[–]sistaadmin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well now you know why we are always saying sorry.

[–]SuckMyTimbits 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes we have an evil past, that's why we say sorry so much

[–]FoxxyRin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Obasan was a great book about this. Beautifully written.

[–]sunhatd1000 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

David Suzuki was in a Canadian internment camp.

[–]sharktank 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

no joke--i just learned this today too! It was after watching The Vancouver Asahi, a feature film about the baseball team in Vancouver pre-war...it was pretty good

edit--and apparently Japanese were held in the camps FOUR YEARS after the end of the war....can you believe?

[–]highasakite91 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Bloody Canadians, I knew it, Don't trust them

[–]Hotspur000 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

TIL Only Canadians know anything about Canadian history.

[–]EtrianOddity 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not necessarily. I remember the Migrant Program!

[–]Zero_Heros 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

TIL the Japanese invaded China and killed like 100,000 people. Everyone's fucked someone.

[–]Helplessromantic 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

like 100,000 people

Uh, you're missing about two zeroes

[–]Sinartionel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe he's getting mixed up with nanking alone

[–]duglarri 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Low estimate of fifteen million, high around twenty. Million.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

[–]EtrianOddity 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Oh, you know, they killed somewhere between fifteen million and twenty people."

[–]Owyheemud 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Japanese killed more Chinese than that just during the Nanking city massacre.

[–]AznSparks 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rofl if Japan would even admit to that number it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what they really did

[–]Bonapartist 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you guys know about the Nihau Incident? No one talks about it much. It helps to put yourself in the mind of an American or Canadian who just suffered Pearl Harbor and then had a Japanese-born American citizen and an American-Japanese spontaneously commit treason the same day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident Might help you understand internment a little better. It wasn't right, it wasn't just, but you can understand.

In highschool history we spent like a month solid talking about absolutely nothing but internment, and it was never mentioned. Still pisses me off.

[–]Simple10Jack 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wrote a research paper for a history class on the justifications for internment camps in North America. They were awful, but it's pretty easy for people who have never seen a war on that scale to look down on the leaders who made those decisions. King and Roosevelt weren't idiots, and Pearl Harbor was a game changer. Nobody thought the war could get that close to North America.

[–]Weezull 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

And TIL I learned that Americans had internment camps like the Canadians.

[–]Lokican 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

A dark time in Canadian history. It's something Canada should be ashamed of and it's our duty to remember what happened, so it never happens again.

Like all nations, we have had periods of oppression, intolerance and even genocide.

[–]Cernan 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

As fellow Canadian I found out my hometown I lived in for 12 years had an Internment camp, (Fernie BC)

[–]shredgnar85 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the one near Fernie might have been for World War I though. Just did some googling to confirm some facts but they're pretty sparse.

[–]rustyshacklefordrsw 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

We absolutely did and David Suzuki was in one as a child. A serious black mark on Canadian history.

[–]Analyidiot 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not our proudest moment, and still not the most fucked up thing we've done.

Sincerely,

Canada.

[–]leberkaese 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Japanese prisoners of war have been treated completely different compared to Germans. I'm German and my grandfather was captured and brought to Canada. In his PoW camp he would have to work less than during his military duty, got better food than most people in war-ridden Germany at those times and probably lived a lot more comfortable when compared to his duty on a U-boat. I think that many German soldiers decided to stay in Canada after the war. Well, who could blame them.

Japanese prisoners on the other hand have been treated like scum.

[–]sabbo_87 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

shhhh, u werent supposed to know

[–]TheGoluxNoMereDevice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

my great grand mother was interned for a few months despite being A Ukrainian Jew because she married a Dane. The twist? My great grand father was a naturalized citizen so he wasnt interned.

[–]CLND 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Is internment camp just another word for concentration camp?

[–]samuraiguitarist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. However, due to what the nazis did, concentration camps are often associated with death camps where as internment camps are not.

[–]idontknow1122[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No they were mostly just holding camps to keep them away from general public. The were not nice places to be but in no such way as extreme as concentration camps, food was there but it was kinda an existence and thats it.

[–]classactdynamo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think when we say concentration camp now, we refer to the industrialized way in which the Nazis conducted a round up and genocide of certain groups of people. Despite being unjust and terrible, what the Canadian and American governments did, did not serve to enslave and wipe these people out.

[–]MisterBuilder 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The worst of it is it took us longer than America to make reparations :(

[–]Sea-Mammal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except in canada they didn't want to leave

[–]coolerer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something beautiful did come out of the war....can you believe?

[–]TreePlusTree 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Brazil, on the other hand, did not have Japanese internment camps. Many defected and rioted.

[–]Alaric4 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Australia also interned various "enemy aliens", mainly Italians, Germans and Japanese. Many of them were citizens.

My great-grandfather was interned. He was Italian and a non-citizen - he had been working in Australia on and off since the mid-1930s while the rest of the family remained in Italy. He was interned in 1940 and released in 1944, by which stage he had developed tuberculosis. Unable to work to pay his way back to Italy, he died in 1946. His daughter (my grandmother) subsequently migrated to Australia with her husband and children (including my mother) in the 1950s.

[–]Gonzanic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ours were cooler.

[–]He770zz 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Canada also had Residential schools too. Canada has a reputation of multiculturalism but it was just as racist as other countries.

[–]sinkingsun 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, David Suzuki is from my town which is pretty much the only reason it was brought up in high school. They really didn't want to paint Canada in any sort of bad light until he announced that he was gonna visit his hometown, and then suddenly, OH BTW OUR GOVERNMENT KINDA PUT HIS FAMILY IN CAMPS SO MAKE SURE YOU'RE REAL NICE AND SHIT.