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Google Discussing Building Phone (theinformation.com)

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[–]fastforward23[S] 51ポイント52ポイント  (0子コメント)

About one year after selling Motorola, executives inside Google are once again discussing whether to build an Android phone from scratch.

People who work at Google say there is debate and discussion about the topic right now—as there is with myriad ideas at “Googphabet,” one of the many internal nicknames for the new Alphabet-Google corporate structure. But the fact the issue is on the table at all is noteworthy and shows how Google’s Android strategy remains in flux.

The challenges with Android today have been well documented. Google doesn’t directly control the vast majority of Android phones in the world because they are made by lots of different companies with a variety of hardware components. That could put Google’s mobile services at a disadvantage over time.

Not only are Android handset brands preloading non-Google services on phones but the types of apps and services Google could offer in the first place may be limited by the capabilities of certain phones. And getting existing phones updated to the latest version of Android software is also a struggle, often because of reluctance by the handset brands.

Apple, which controls the iPhone’s software and hardware, doesn’t have such problems.

Timing Unclear

It isn’t clear which people inside Google are arguing in favor of building phones or whether there will be a decision any time soon. Also, there are lots of ways Google could get more involved in phone hardware besides building a phone from scratch.

We reported last week that Google was getting involved in designing and developing the guts of Android phones, in order to improve the hardware components and making them more uniform. That’s an example of Google working through existing hardware partners, rather than completely turning itself into Apple, to try to make Android stronger.

Google employees have been discussing risks to building a phone, including irking existing Android handset brands, wireless carriers and regulators, who are watching how Google links its services to Android and treats its hardware partners very closely.

A Google spokeswoman did not have a comment.

In building its own phone, Google may attempt to marry hardware and software in ways that would be different from its existing “Nexus” program. With Nexus, Google co-develops one or two devices a year in close partnership with brands like LG and Huawei, though those projects are complicated and the brands have plenty of say on the look and feel of the phones. Google helps market and sell those devices, but they are typically only offered online and don’t sell in great quantities.

Google has already gone vertical in its effort to make Android more competitive in tablets, with the “Pixel C” that it designed in-house. But tablets are much easier to build than phones (there’s more room for components, for one), and the tablet market is much smaller than phones. The Pixel C isn’t expected to set the world on fire, in terms of sales.

Still, making its own phone would require Google to plunge into areas outside its expertise, such as overseeing production, developing a supply chain and brand marketing.

And Google has already had a stint in phone manufacturing, through its two-year ownership of Motorola Mobility, which it sold a year ago to Lenovo. That experience showed Google first hand how difficult it is to gain significant market share even with a good product, including one that is tailor-made for emerging markets like India.

Still, Google didn’t take full advantage of Motorola. The Android team kept its distance from the unit in order to not upset other partners.

[–]wine-o-saur|1+1|One M7 (drowned)| 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

I have a feeling this is something that will happen over the next few years when the big OEMs decide the margins aren't worth staying in the high-end smartphone market anymore. Think of the amount of money that Samsung, e.g., puts into R&D and compare that to the profits it's experiencing from mobile sales. It's almost inevitable that things will reach a point (if they haven't already) where they can make more money continuing with r&d and selling components to other OEMs rather than plowing marketing and manufacture money into a spate of products that produce increasingly disappointing sales in increasingly competitive markets.

Motorola has turned their flagships into high-midrange products that are intended to compete on price more than sheer power.

LG is doing some good things, but also operating on tiny margins and probably isn't doing enough in terms of design and marketing to take the lead in high end smartphones.

HTC? Well.

Sony? They've been vacillating over whether or not to stay in mobile for a couple of years now, so I don't see them suddenly deciding to really go for it.

The major advances in the android space are being made with Chinese manufacturers showing us how much we can really get for our money, and I think that trend will continue. Android manufacturers will continue to dominate budget and midrange while Apple basks in the glory of the high-end with its accompanying huge profit margins. But this will be bad for innovation in the android space. Without expensive flagships, Android will begin to lag behind with new features as OEMs strive to provide bang for Buck over sheer power. Enter Google. Now that they won't piss off as many OEMs by jumping in and making the daddy of all Android phones, they can go wild. Pixelphone, here we come.

[–]canonymous 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can't happen soon enough. IMO the disconnect between hardware and software manufacturers is the source of so many fatal flaws in Android.

[–]autonomousgermOPO - Woohoo! 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Android is king in terms of marketshare. Apple gobbles up 93% of total smartphone revenue. What manufacturer would want to enter a market where their potential slice of industry revenue is 7% divided up by literally thousands of manufacturers?

There will come a time when Google will have to enter the smartphone market, since they will be the only company benefiting from Android.

As a bit of perspective, it is recently estimated that the Apple Watch brought in $1.7 billion in revenue in its first few months. Samsung's entire mobile line - low, mid, and high end, did $3.5 billion in a quarter. Dividing that out, Samsung's entire mobile line only did 2.5 times the amount of revenue as the Apple Watch by itself.

[–]wine-o-saur|1+1|One M7 (drowned)| 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Apple is taking 93% of smartphone profits. Samsung is taking about 9%.

Wait, that's more than 100%! That's because so many players are losing money.

But yeah, I generally agree with your line of thinking here.

Also, Samsung did about $41 billion revenue in Q2 2015, about £5bill of which were profits.

[–]SigmascLG G2 stock [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Uhm if someone made negative % of profit (to counteract yours 102%) that means they made no profit. It is quantifiable.

[–]wine-o-saur|1+1|One M7 (drowned)| [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, in isolation. As share of revenue, if a company's costs exceed revenues, they report negative profit margins on their income statements which in turn factors into the way market data are reported.

[–]calmdownprincess [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

i dont see why anyone with over 80% market share would be worried about the company with 93% of the revenue. if anything, thats encouraging. there is so much to be made from less than 20% of the market and you control 4 times that amount. and there is so much room between your price and theirs. and the reason so many people overpay for apple products is because they're pretty, and they make them feel affluent. how hard is it to create something that makes people feel important. 82% market share. and insane success is hampered by fragmentation, and the feeling that android is cheap. the apple faithful believe the latter so much that they're happy to pay more for an inferior phone/inferior watch. so you get timely updates and everything moves seamlessly across your devices (except your computer because we all still use windows for that)? revenue is only low because of the competition. hell, OEMs compete with themselves now (moto pure v. droid turbo2....s6 v. s6edge v. note5 v. s6edge+). with apple you pay a premium, not because it's a better product, but because there is no competition. even with all the competition, if google made a really good device, they could keep that marketshare and start closing the gap in revenue.

[–]autonomousgermOPO - Woohoo! [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Your line of thinking is what will get Android in deep, deep trouble. Why would a company want to enter a market where one single player consumes 93% of the profits? Android manufacturers have to divide an ever shrinking piece of the profit pie (7%) between thousands of them. AND they have to work harder to do it, by churning out MORE devices to get less profit. How is that appealing?

[–]sol1000Nexus 6P [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

facepalm.jpg

there is so much room between your price and theirs.

You're assuming that the majority are willing to pay those very same Android manufacturers for premium devices in numbers worth their while. They're not, or......they would be. There's certainly an absurd number of choices right up the price chart from which to choose. Maybe they're buying them because they cost less and thats fine for most people. Good for them. 70% of users are fine with super basic devices, and thats fine. So what? Think you're going to get them to pony up from a Moto E to a $400-$700 flagship Android phone? Not so much. Sure, you could say that its a market ripe for the picking, yet very few (1?) have sort of succeeded. And some have died trying, or are bleeding trying. And its not been easy for the one who did, its cost them a lot to get there. And they're having a lot of pressure from top and bottom now. Its Samsung. The rest? Barely scraping by, or losing money. Think this is all incentive for other players to risk name, money, and the company on throwing money down the hole at the problem?

the reason so many people overpay for apple products is because they're pretty, and they make them feel affluent.

Jesus, people seriously think this way still? Honestly, I won't dignify the sentiment with much substance other than to say its pure bollocks and shows your level of reason.

how hard is it to create something that makes people feel important.

Apparently, really hard, or else everyone would be swimmingly successful at now, wouldn't they? Your perception of Apple customers and products appears from a random observer to be deeply flawed, this coming from a guy that has owned ~8 Android phones, just received a N6P, and a N9. My last iPhone was in 2008.

Apple...inferior phone

lolz...but please, go on......

And even if it were, which any objective measure totally discredits your view, people have excellent experiences with them. If they were shit, iPhones wouldn't have the highest customer sat ratings every.fucking.year. Or are you suggesting people know they'r poorly built, crappy experiences, but choose them every year anyway? WTF. Its totally illogical to think this, and no available information supports this theory. But a metric fuckton of information supports the opposite of what you're saying.

with apple you pay a premium, not because it's a better product, but because there is no competition.

Really? Who else offers 7000 series aluminum? The best service/support experience in the space, in store support, 3-D touch, killer GPUs, killer CPUs, top notch build quality, accurate displays, excellent vertical integration, excellent integrated messaging, excellent resale value, excellent developer participation, excellent app selection, excellent ecosystem and accessories market, excellent battery use time, hands down the best standby time (even after doze, its a TKO for iPhone). Now add all that into one phone. Sure, you can find aspects of different phones that may offer some of those things in different devices, but none are as broadly really "good", or great devices, and certainly not as consistently.

Yeah, sound inferior! Why aren't the sheeple just listening to you! Only you know, they don't.

So, no competition? Of course there is....its the hundreds of OEM manufacturers. What are you talking about? Which is it? Either there are better products (iPhone is inferior, right?), or there aren't. According to you, its both! You're saying conflicting things here, wherever it suits a silly narrative best.

except your computer because we all still use windows for that

Except not really. A huge number of devs use Macs, Google uses ~all Macs, 40000 of them running OS X. Cisco runs mostly (many, ~30000) Macs. The list goes on and on. The "Windows is for smarter tech people" trope simply holds no water, and hasn't for the last 5-10 years.

All I can say is thank the gods you're not running Google! We'd all be screwed.

[–]the_real_Mark_WatneyNexus 4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pixelphone, here we come.

My body is ready.

[–]RangizingoNexus 6, 64GB MB 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

It would be the Google equivalent of the Surface/Surface Book (Pixel C?) in the form of a phone. So a Pixel Phone maybe? If it provides a similar or better experience compared to the Nexus line, I'd buy it.

[–]armando_rodI'm not Ron Amadeo 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Definitly it would be a better experience, features, specs than any Nexus, just see Chromebook Pixel and Pixel C

[–]jcpbi4S→SGS4→Lumia620→Z3C→i6S+ 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sure just how much faith I have in Google not screwing up while building their own smartphone.

[–]OutsideObserverNote 5 - iPad Mini 2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They will build it, you just won't be able to buy it.

[–]cjeremyiPhone 6S & Moto X '14 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

if it's 5ish" and premium, I'd buy it asap...

[–]lost_in_trepidationNexus 5 | Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 (CM 12) 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please

[–]crescendolls 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Something needs to be done. iPhone needs competition in a real way.

[–]autonomousgermOPO - Woohoo! 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly. While Android is more popular in terms of marketshare thanks to their low end offerings, there is no competition at all in the high end. And with Apple taking 93% of all smartphone revenue, there's little incentive for manufacturers to step up their game.

[–]crescendolls 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It will help iOS fans AND android fans.

[–]autonomousgermOPO - Woohoo! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Absolutely. I'd hate to see a world utterly dominated by either. Right now, Apple is utterly dominating, and I don't see that changing in Android's favor anytime soon. In fact, I think it will get worse before it gets better.

[–]zirzo 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Don't really see much of a difference or benefit from doing this that cannot already be obtained from the nexus line.

[–]armando_rodI'm not Ron Amadeo 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

Google doesn't control all the hardware and design of the Nexus

[–]foxinyourboxPure Moto X (2014), Asus ZenWatch, Nexus 7 (2013) 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I would imagine if they really wanted to they could manage to take full control of it.

[–]armando_rodI'm not Ron Amadeo 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Then the OEM wouldn't make the phone... That's why they need to make it themselves

[–]foxinyourboxPure Moto X (2014), Asus ZenWatch, Nexus 7 (2013) 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean in regards to the manufacturer (LG, Huawei, HTC, etc.) producing the phone with their logo. Basically Google using the company's proven manufacturing line.

[–]armando_rodI'm not Ron Amadeo 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Most OEMs don't have their own factories, they outsource to Foxconn and others like Apple.

[–]Atlas26Nexus 6 - Stock 6.0 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, but manufacturing is only a small part of the overall process. R&D, supply chain development, EMS relationships, prototype testing, etc, all take significant dedicated resources. Hardware development is a fantastically massive operation, which many people totally miss and say "well it's all built in china anyway", when in reality that is a very small part of the overall process.

[–]sol1000Nexus 6P [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Consistency and quality of hardware would be the big upside. Giving google real control over all aspects of design, materials, and manufacturing processes would be huge. As a longtime nexus owner, i'd love to see many of the design, material, roll out, and support issues get better.

[–]o0adam0o 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

5"-5.2"+huge battery+efficiency trick and it will be gold.

[–]jcpbi4S→SGS4→Lumia620→Z3C→i6S+ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not happening. Customers who want huge batteries in their smartphones are in the minority, like it or not. Even if it does transpire, it hardly matters when they're still going to complain how they're getting only half a day of battery life, with Google Play Services and Facebook wakelocking their phones all day long.

[–]o0adam0o 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah i know. Ive been spoiled by the LG G2... i know ill have no choice and when i find an 820 phone i like, it will probably be 5.4" or something. Oh well... as long as the battery is big. Z5 and the new Droids at least give me hope.

[–]astronomicclubNexus 6P - Marshmallow 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would most definitely be interested in this

[–]tobyps 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

This would be great on paper, but does Google actually have the hardware expertise to pull this off?

[–]lost_in_trepidationNexus 5 | Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 (CM 12) 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's Google. They could have the hardware expertise tomorrow if they wanted to.

[–]astronomicclubNexus 6P - Marshmallow 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

The Pixel line is incredibly good build

[–]Pesceman3OnePlus 2, Nexus 7 (2012) 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Except the whole soldered SSD idea in the Chromebook Pixels. Had my SSD fail and the whole $1000 Chromebook became a paperweight. Luckily it was still under warranty.

[–]astronomicclubNexus 6P - Marshmallow 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

But that's no different than what Apple's doing in the Macbook line and such

[–]pairkingLG G2 | Android One 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

And that makes it okay, how?

[–]Pesceman3OnePlus 2, Nexus 7 (2012) 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I thought Apple uses M.2?

[–]astronomicclubNexus 6P - Marshmallow 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not sure about the SSD but pretty much everything is soldered on

[–]sir_blebMoto G, CM12 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The SSD in the macbook uses a proprietary connector iirc, but is replaceable.

[–]crackerforhire 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would be nice to see Google create an SoC designed for their specific needs rather than relying on some generic SoC.

[–]anthonyvardizAMA Coordinator | Moto 360 (2015) & Huawei Nexus 6P [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm hoping to see some partnership between Google and NVIDIA in the future. The X1 chip is a beast. Or maybe even Intel. Both have solid chips and it could help create some real competition in the industry.

[–]calmdownprincess 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

this would be amazing but id be interested to know how the "partners" would feel about google making a flagship to work flawlessly with their software and take advantage of every capability google came up with. would Google withhold new features from OEMs in favor of their own devices? would they design for their devices only and make it hard for OEMs to adjust for their designs? the nexus phones might not be popular for a reason? if iOS ran on other phones before apple decided to create the iphone they would have ran the other OEMs out of business. although, maybe if there was some competition between iOS devices apple might be more inclined innovate again.

[–]prawnpirateNexusssInExcess 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Google's biding their time before making a bid for HTC. Maybe they'll pull a Microsoft/Nokia/Elop and buy out the leadership of HTC, sinking the company deliberately to cheapen the stock.

[–]redditrasberry [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It would be very weird of them to buy a phone manufacturer within a year or two of divesting themselves of Motorola. I honestly think they just couldn't do that for how many questions it would raise about their decision making. But aside from that, what's the point in buying HTC? There's no real value there, and for sure it would just make them have to restrain themselves with chinese walls like they did with Motorola. I think Google is actually better off developing their own hardware business from scratch.

[–]pooch321 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But... But... HTC. We can't let them die. Don't die HTC don't dieeeee

[–]cjeremyiPhone 6S & Moto X '14 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

stfu and make a goddamn nice 5" phone.. Jesus Christ

[–]bjebjebje -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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