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[–]stillnotkingRelishes cultural appropriation, in the form of burritos 111ポイント112ポイント  (28子コメント)

As always, this argument makes no sense unless you're comparing America to another real country. The fact that America falls short of some imaginary utopia doesn't mean anything, because that will always be true. (Ironically, it's the same rhetorical trick Trump is using.)

We're the world's most successful republic, one of the major pioneers of liberal democracy. We've been at the forefront of technological development, cultural output, international trade and cooperation for at least the last century. Our reported happiness and standard of living are among the highest in the world. As imperial powers go, we're surely the gentlest the planet has had to endure. I tend to think the judgment of history will be kind.

[–]Ahnenerbe_ 68ポイント69ポイント  (19子コメント)

(Ironically, it's the same rhetorical trick Trump is using.)

I think Trump really does believe that America is not as great as it once was. I don't know if you are old enough to have been politically aware during the 90s but image this: There were no major wars. It was very easy to find a job. There was no such thing as "Cultural Appropriation" or "White Privilege" or "Problematic Halloween Costumes". Banks gave you 3% on your money just for depositing it. There was no immigration problem and the national mood was hopeful not cynical and apathetic.

America really was better in the 90s than it is right now.

[–]lankygeekHeavy Weapons Guy-kin (pootis/poot/pootself) 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

It was very easy to find a job.

Goddamn, since I became an adult I've just kind of accepted that jobs are a difficult thing to get and keep without significant experience, education, or both. Also being not white really helps. How many pizza shops, Best Buys, and other minimum wage places want to hire a middle class white dude? The answer is almost none.

[–]Wickedtwisty 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

Where do you live?! Everywhere I've worked, being white, male, able bodied, clean, and coherent is a coveted set of attributes. Never worked in an Italian pizzeria that hired anyone but whites for FoH, honestly. And in every minimum wage type place I've worked, a "middle class white dude" who is willing to work for around minimum wage and ISN'T addicted to heroin... Well, that's basically a unicorn.

[–]lankygeekHeavy Weapons Guy-kin (pootis/poot/pootself) 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I live in North Carolina. Reasonably clean-cut white guys of college age are a dime a dozen around here. Maybe it's just my particular town, but I've had no luck getting jobs that should be easy to get, and I've known from the experience of a few friends, my brothers, and their friends that it's not easy for anyone, but seemingly a little easier if you're a minority of some kind.

[–]Wickedtwisty 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Actually in NJ it's pretty hard to find people in general who are both willing to work for minimum wage and don't have drug problems that interfere with their work. But I always found employers to have a strong and often openly stated (to current employees, not to applicants obviously) preference for pretty white girls first, and white guys second. Trying to convince my NJ-Italian boss that this black guy who left his info for the delivery job would be a good hire... To put it mildly, he wouldn't consider it.

[–]lankygeekHeavy Weapons Guy-kin (pootis/poot/pootself) 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's entirely possible that my experience is just a string of bad luck, and I'm grasping at straws to explain why employer after employer just gave me the run-around.

[–]Wickedtwisty 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Could just be different local circumstances, maybe people are actually a little more upstanding where you live. Every area I've lived in has been haunted by opiate addiction, which has a devastating effect on the low-end worker pool in general.

[–]lankygeekHeavy Weapons Guy-kin (pootis/poot/pootself) 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, people around here tend to be either drunkards or potheads when they're addicted to stuff.

[–]RightCross4Lin-kin Park 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

America really was better in the 90s than it is right now.

That was just the .com bubble before it burst and everyone landed on their ass. So much false growth, then made worse by absurd government-mandated loans.

[–]stillnotkingRelishes cultural appropriation, in the form of burritos 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

In the '90s? When a Clinton was in the White House?

Somehow I'm not sure that's what Trump has in mind. ;)

[–]linguotgrhido-kin 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

Trump was a huge Clinton supporter. Both Bill and Hillary back when she was running against Obama. He and Bill were good friends back in the day.

[–]vulgarman1identifies as M16A4 Military Service Rifle 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait, so maybe trump is in this election to split the republicans so Hilary can win? As a favor or something?

[–]JPMoneyMTGtrumpkin 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

nah, Trump's been conservative since Obama was elected

[–]0b3r0nprivelagekin: checking is one of my triggers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

He tweeted that he voted for Obama though. That's the fishy part.

https://malaach.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/trumpobama.png?w=448&h=202

[–]ZombiAgris 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was, but only because Reagan and Bush made it that way. Clinton inherited it and, before the end of his term, set in motion things that would cause all kinds of problems that wound up getting blamed on the next Bush.

[–]Red_green_ 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Clinton's success had more to do his term coinciding with the Silicon Valley tech boom/ dot com boom than any president's previous policies. Gridlock in Congress definitely attributed to the defunding of social programs and the repeal of Glass-Steagal was also in Clinton's term, but that's more representative of the conservative Congress than of Clinton. And it's not as though Bush 2's domestic policies helped once this was already in place.

America was great in the 90s because tech was new and helped make massive boosts in productivity. Meanwhile, Reagan had star wars..

[–]Bardlartransliquid transsolid gas identifying aquakin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, and all that care free living really fucked things up economically for the next generation.

[–]Friend-oh 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No major wars? We didn't lose a lot in the Gulf war, but it was huge and a key factor in today's war.

[–]Ahnenerbe_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe. But the Gulf war didn't even last a year. We're on year 14 now and it's just expanded into Syria and Libya.

[–]ShamAbram 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, unless you count what we did to the Balkans and the Iraqis. They still hate Clinton for that shit.

On the economic front, people were doing pretty good but the government also tinkered with the CPI to avoid small things like energy and food into the equation of how good we were doing.

Then there was a growth in the drug war (Increased incarceration/Biden's RAVE act), DOMA, the Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, Waco, and many pointless domestic squabbles that acted as a precursor to where we are today. I don't blame Clinton, but America has sucked for a while. I refuse to see the 90's as some glorious time of sanity and reason.

[–]SteveTheDudeMaster Magician of Misogyny 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not to mention the fact that we're the ones who've been working to end slavery and oppression worldwide.

These people seem to think the world had zero problems 200 years ago

[–]MackilroyI am become disappointment, destroyer of feels 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only in countries dominated by nonwhites, such as the peaceful and progressive Islamic nations! /s

[–]firedrake242Романов-kin : Triggered by Communists : Czar/Czis/Czarself 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, in Europe 1815 was the congress of Vienna, so really that was the end of a lot of problems for about 30 years. Compared to what was before and would be after, 1815 was kind of the best time to be alive in a lot of places.

[–]tar-x 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one is comparing America to a utopia, but America from the past.

[–]neubournAmerikin | Free/Freed/Freedom 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or to put it even more simply: great =/= perfect.

You can make mistakes and still be great. One does not exclude the other.

[–]ExeterQuickly [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

r/shitamericanssay

[–]HVAvenger -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I tend to think the judgment of history will be kind.

I'm not so sure, I predict a Roman Empire type history. Everyone knows we did some cool things, and made a lot of interesting media/technology/etc. But, at the end of the day, everyone also knows we pretty brutally subjugated a large portion of the planets population (directly or indirectly: see yemen) to some pretty barbaric things to further our own goals.

Romans built some pretty awesome roads, romans also murdered most of the ethnic population of Britannia.

United States pushed the information age, United States also toppled stable governments plunging the Middle East into decades of turmoil killing hundreds of thousands of people and displacing millions more.

[–]ShoutingCoffeeCistemic Violence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would not call the government that tortured its political dissenters with power tools and gassed ethnic minorities a stable government.