全 73 件のコメント

[–]MexicanKnight14 14ポイント15ポイント  (25子コメント)

Round 1: Batman can run between 20-30 miles. Spider-Man can move around 60 when injured. Spider-Man takes the foot race quite easily.

Round 2: gonna need /u/ame-no-nobuko for this one since I'm not sure exactly how fast the Batmobile can go, but Spidey can cross the city very quickly when trying, maybe 150-200 mph?

Round 3: Batman has much better prep feats than Spider-Man overall. Peter is smart, but Bruce is on another level in terms on prepping for a fight. As seen in his suits and gadgets that's he's made over the years.

Round 4 is the same as round 3.

Round 5: Batman stomps this really hard. Peter knows how to fight, but only with his spider powers since the martial art he knows is based around his powers.

Round 6: Does Batman know about his spider-sense? If not, it'll be really difficult to do since Spider-Man can react to multiple sniper rounds. Spidey should be able to get away from most assassination attempts.

Round 7: I don't believe Peter could do it. Batman usually keeps his guard up and can even take assassins out while out in public as Bruce. Spidey isn't exactly one to use stealth either.

Round 8: Spider-Man is physically superior and his Spider-Sense makes him difficult to tag, but he doesn't abuse his speed. And Batman has gadgets that can put him down. Spider-Man 7-8/10

Round 9: Spider-Man speed blitz 9/10. He will abuse his speed in this fight and came at Batman hard and fast.

Round 10: Spider-Man 6/10. No SS will make it difficult and Spidey will have an easier time tagging him.

Round 11: Spidey speed blitz again

Round 12: The Batsuit can take more damage to gunfire and rockets, but Spidey can withstand blunt damage more.

13: Spidey can lift 20 tons casually. He's a lot stronger.

14: Spidey can punch much harder for same reason as 13.

15: Spidey can move faster and spider-sense helps

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Batsuit can take more damage to gunfire and rockets, but Spidey can withstand blunt damage more.

I'd disagree, Batman's armor has a lot more, and better blunt damage feats than Spiderman does

Round 1: Batman can run between 20-30 miles. Spider-Man can move around 60 when injured. Spider-Man takes the foot race quite easily.

While we have no direct WoC or objective "look at it and it tells you the answer" speed feats for Batman, based on calculated estimates Bruce can at least sprint at 60 mph for a decent distance

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

gonna need /u/ame-no-nobuko[1] for this one since I'm not sure exactly how fast the Batmobile can go, but Spidey can cross the city very quickly when trying, maybe 150-200 mph?

A common misconception is that there is one Batmobile, while there are actually 20+. Most can go at least 100 MPH, some can go 500+ mph

[–]SexualPie 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

yea, but the point is, through a cit? with turns and shit? OP didnt really specify this part, which matters a lot. if its a straight line, batman. if there are turns, spidey. distance matters too. spidey loses less speed through turns, so the longer the race i'd argue that spidey has a much better chance.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As vadergeek showed some of the batmobiles can also fly

[–]Feminineside[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (20子コメント)

1: hmm only double the speed. That's interesting. The difference isn't as big as I expected. People usually treat the fight as Spidey running circles around batman for lolz.

And according to /u/Ame-no-nobuko there is no speed difference in terms of running. This thread is getting interesting. Everything I know is a lie.

6: yes he knows about Spiderman's abilities.

7: his powers are great for stealth that's dumb.

8: interesting how low those chances are. I see people saying stuff like spiderman stomps the entire bat family.

10: an even bigger surprise.

13: got an idea of what batman can lift?

14: got any evidence? Some characters have a weird difference in their lifting/striking power.

What about 16?

[–]Spideyjust 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

Double the speed is still a massive edge. If someone moves and reacts at double the speed you do, it will be nigh impossible to hit them.

[–]Feminineside[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah but running speed isn't exactly the same. I don't think it's unreasonable for me to beat someone with double my consistent (non sprinting) speed in a fight.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Consistently? That's probably gonna be an unreasonable statement provided you're comparable in other areas.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well yeah but if they are going that fast they probably are used to running. None of the runners I know have much more (if any more) upper body strength than me.

Just kinda comparing to my life experience.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, IRL it's not such a big deal because we can't run very fast.

[–]MexicanKnight14 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

None of the runners you know can lift 20 tons either.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not saying batman wins... I'm saying based on just the running speed speed alone Spidey doesn't stomp.

[–]MexicanKnight14 3ポイント4ポイント  (12子コメント)

Yeah, the entire Batfamily would be too much for Spider-Man.

And that's when he was running injured. He can and should run over 100mph casually. It's his speed and agility that make his very quick. It's hard to get a definite running speed since he doesn't run very much.

Spider-Man can KO characters that are vastly superhuman physically like Scorpion, that Batman would break his hand punching barehanded.

He has good stealth powers, he just doesn't use them for that purpose very often.

And round 6 will be easier for Batman then.

[–]Spideyjust 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

Peter himself nearly breaks his hand on Rhino. He doesn't KO him without weapons of some kind.

[–]MexicanKnight14 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Didn't he do it before?

Oh wait nvm. That was the stupid Post Civil War tie in when he attacked Rhino for no reason. Imma edit

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

If he did it's PIS or WIS.

[–]MexicanKnight14 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

That comic in general was full of WIS. Pete attacked Rhino for no reason and ended up breaking Rhino's mother's gravestone.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Peter attacking Rhino for no reason sounds VERY in character. Peter loves a fight. But yeah, any KO is almost certainly ridiculous. Although it has been a loooong time since I've read Civil war.

[–]MexicanKnight14 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was the way it was handled that bothered me, tbh.

It was one of those tie ins written by Loeb. He not only blocked any attack from Rhino and proceeded to beat the shit out of him, it showed a flashback on him and Cap fighting and defeating The Hulk.

So yeah it was a mess.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah, that comic. To be fair, arguing the cap and spidey vs hulk thing being an exaggeration of the event is easy.

But yeah, Peter baselessly attacking someone is really normal. He attacks heroes unprovoked occasionally.

[–]shadowsphere 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was one of the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[–]Spideyjust 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Spider-man's considerably faster in a run.

Spider-man both has a massive advantage (NYC) and doesn't have to follow roads in the slightest.

Batman prepstomps.

Batman doubleprepstomps.

Batman's waaaaay more skilled. WotS is good, but not batman good.

Spidersense, GG bats.

Much more interesting, but I doubt it. I don't now enough about Batman to say for sure, but I'd wager he's too paranoid for that.

Spider-man takes a majority.

Spider-man wins heavily, takes out that nice looking jaw ala scorpion.

Without spider sense is a lot closer, but losing the Spider sense isn't nearly the nerf it once was.

Again, bye bye jaw.

I'd say Peter can. Provided we're talking blunt force here.

Spider-man lifts like 20 times what Batman lifts.

Peter punches harder than mortar's, and lifts 20 times more.

Parker. Dodging projectiles is his niche.

Still Spider-man.

[–]vadergeek 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Batman's reliance on roads varies.

[–]SexualPie 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I take a little contention with Batman prep stomping. other posters seem to agree, but exactly what is batman going to do with prep time? I suppose a mech might help, but Spidey is typically pretty good against those. his speed and spidey sense are just so good. Spiderman has no real weaknesses besides his compassion (which batman wouldnt abuse) for innocents that Bats could exploit. any type of grenade, gun, whatever Spidey could dodge. Now, his SS has, in the past, failed against traps of various sorts, but in a random encounter (even with prep) that would be difficult to pull off.

Dont get me wrong, i respect the bat prep god. but in this match up, i really dont see it making that big a difference. he's prepping himself and his gear, he is not setting up the area with traps and what not.

[–]Elardi 1ポイント2ポイント  (26子コメント)

I'd prefer an in depth analysis of one round than low effort responses to all of them.

I'm on mobile, so I can provide that much. But I don't think there really is much to be said beyond recommending you read. The RTs.

I'll link RTs later if nobody gets to it first.

Honestly, the respect threads are for exactly this situation, literally a catalog of evidence on the characters powers. Each of the aspects you have asked about have several scans that cover them, and both the spider-man and batman threads are very well made and researched, giving explanations too.

If you want to learn about those characters, the the RTs should be your first stop.

Some else can fill you in on details, but IMO Batman wins rounds 3,4,5 and spidey stomps in every other. Spider man is a superhuman. Weaker than many other superhuman but stronger than batman in every physical aspect.

EDIT - detailed comparison.

Batman is peak human, He is way stronger/faster/smarter/tougher than anyone in the real world could ever be, but not by much. Without augmentation, don't expect him to do anything that impressive by comic standards. Everything he does is just within a level of realism.

Spider-man on the other hand is a Solid Superhuman. Nothing like Superman, Thor etc, but able to do things far, far, far beyond a real human. He's able to dodge bullets by instinct (different from most bullet dodgers, who see the bullets coming and then react to them). He's able to lift a car casually, but not a Tank. He could take severe blunt force trauma, such as getting thrown through a wall or having a hammer or fist smashed into him, but he's not bullet proof or stab proof, though his muscle strength would mean that, assuming no vital organs were hit, the damage would be smaller than on a more fragile human.

Comparing the two - Spider-Man beats out Batman in every physical aspect. However, the Batsuit could take a bullet - Spider Man's skin couldn't. Spidey's Bones could tank a punch pretty well - Batman's Bones couldn't.

Batman is more skilled as a fighter technically, and has far more resources at his disposal to throw at problems.

[–]Spideyjust 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

Honestly, the respect threads are for exactly this situation, literally a catalog of evidence on the characters powers.

Not everyone likes reading RT's, and not every RT is made evenly.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

Yeah I read them but I don't open every link. Just the ones that are interestingly strong/weak sounding.

And the spiderman RT confused me so I didn't link. Going to find batman now.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

I hate RT's if I'm being honest. They're useful and great resources, but reading them is dry and boring (usually) and people have a terrible habit of linking them and pretending they've argued.

Yeah, Spider-man needs a real RT (no offence to whoever made this one), but I don't have the time to go through all of his comics till summer.

[–]MexicanKnight14 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I vote /u/shadowsphere to redo it. Or I could since I have most of the comics and Marvel Unlimited.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've thought about asking shadow to do it with me, considering I have all his solo titles downloaded and a shit ton of other miscellaneous appearances.

[–]MexicanKnight14 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah. It just needs to be redone. It's kinda messy and they aren't that many feats when you think about how long he's been around.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would take a long ass time. I could do a RT on his webbing alone.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Comic RTs are usually boring or incomplete, manga RTs you can't tell what's going on half the time. Just about anything else you need to wait for YouTube videos to load. And on my phone they never skip to the part of the video I'm supposed to see.

I'm working on one I think will be good though. Not horribly long, clear what's going on most of the time, and the coolest feats/character ever.

[–]shadowsphere 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Comic RTs are usually boring or incomplete

You wanna go?

[–]Feminineside[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure but there is no way I'm putting out if you just take me to some burger joint.

[–]Spideyjust 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's hard to do a comic RT complete for a lot of characters. Thousands and thousands of appearances and some of them are just cameo's, mentions, flashbacks, one panel appearances.

[–]YungMilque999 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

people have a terrible habit of linking them and pretending they've argued.

Hate when I see that

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Going to find batman now

I hope you enjoy it, I sunk probably over 100 hours into that thing

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

That feel when in too lazy to finish my RT that would probably take a couple hours. Like under ten minutes to finish collecting scans.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

I procrastinated on this RT for nearly a year, so don't feel bad. I only finished it because I realized I wouldn't be able to put the time in at college

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's my problem. I had a few days off a while ago but I spent it writing.

If I link you to some kenichi RTs would you check them out and say your view on them vs batman?

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure

[–]vadergeek 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

but not by much.

By a pretty fair amount. No real human can kick a motorcycle in half or fling a man through a solid marble wall.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah I know a guy who kicked a motorcycle in half.

[–]Elardi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

but not by much.*

* relative to what other fictional humans can do.

Batman is way above a normal human's possibility, but there lots of other "peak humans" who are absurdly far ahead of Batman despite both being "peak human".

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

The whole plan was to read the respect threads but I was hoping to get some debate going. I try not to get my info from just a few scans or just from what people say since the Thor is fast/slow debate.

[–]Elardi 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

edited with more info. Hope that helps.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is helpful. Thank you.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

Round 1: foot race. No webbing. No tech. Open field.

Based on this scan he can sprint at around 50-60 mph. That plane moves less than a 100 meters and is easily going at least 60 mph, while Batman has to run a bit over 100 meters to save that girl, in the same time period. Batman also generally uses a combo between grappeling and running while moving and through that he can outrace most cars. I can't find a concrete speed for Spiderman, but I imagine he's a coupe 10 mph faster

Round 2: spiderman vs batmobile race. In NY. Streets are empty. Webbing can't be used on the batmobile. Only to move spiderman.

Depends on the Batombile

Round 3: prep battle. Each knows they are prepping to fight the other but neither knows the other is prepping. In character. One week

Generally Batman has better prep feats. In a week Batman built the Insider suit (a high A tier very low S tier suit), I don't think Spiderman has anything beating that.

Round 4: bloodlusted prep battle.each knows the other is prepping. One month.

Batman would just rig one of his mother boxes to explode and right before it does TP out using his boomtube gauntlet. That should easily destroy the planet and Spiderman. IDK if Spidey has ever developed anything to get out of that.

Round 5: skill battle. No webbing, tech, armor. Speed equalized. Strength equalized. No Spidey sense, no wall climbing, no other powers.

Batman could win this using pressure points alone

Round 6: stealth battle. Can batman assassinate spiderman without getting noticed?

IDK. Batman has stayed hidden for an hour while in the same room as the Justice League and he pretty consistently can sneak up on the likes of MMH and Superman. If SS grants Spidey superior awareness to those two it will be difficult, but if not, it will be easy

Round 7: same as 6 but reversed

Does Spiderman breath? He is caught. Even Cassandra Cain can't sneak up on him. But to be fair no attacker has snuck up to him in years. It is highly unlikely Spiderman could

Round 8: straight up fight to incap.

I actually think this is a tie. Here is my rationale:

I'd normally argue that an in character Spiderman v. an in character Batman would be a 6-7/10 in Peter's favor, but after making Batman's respect thread I think I've changed my mind. Let me break it down:


First of all it is evident Spiderman is a good bit stronger and he is faster than Batman, but I'd argue Batman has better durability and he isn't that far for speed.

Durability:

While there are a few times his armor exhibits normal street tier durability, there are the same amount if not more times he blocks higher tiered foes. Based on this, I'm assuming both are inaccurate and his durability is somewhere in the middle, which is still too much for Spidey to deal with.

Speed:

Batman exhibits absurd reaction speed. Captain Cold and Deadshot are both known to have practically superhuman levels of raction speed and Batman can consistently predict and react to speedsters (albeit not in direct combat), while Spidey is faster he isn't so much that it ends this fight in his favor.


There area few common arguments other than superior physicals for Spiderman, I'll address all that I can think of;

  • Spiderman can just web up Batman:

There are a few ways Bats could deal with this. He could melt his way out, he could freeze it and break it out when its brittle, he has acid potent enough to faze a mid tier GL and if all of this fails he has his Justice League communicator on him, which lets him teleport

  • Batman can't hurt Spiderman:

This can be broken down into two categories:

Gadgets:Freeze ray, paralytic toxin, Superman taser, hardening foam strong enough to contain Canary's scream, explosive gas and nth metal batarangs

Strength:

Even if you don't think all this is enough to hurt Spiderman, then Batman has some techniques that will allow him to win if he even hits Spiderman once


So in summary. Spiderman has a very low chance of winning in character using blunt force, his webbing has a mid-low chance of being effective and Batman can either take him out using gadgets or if he hits him once using a nerve strike, something he is perfectly capable of doing as Spiderman isn't absurdly faster than him, especially in character. Frankly I am now arguing this fight is either a tie or slightly in Batman's favor


[–]vadergeek 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

To be fair, while Cass is a proficient sneaker she's not astounding.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was the first scan I saw, I mean if you want a good scene, how about that time he noticed Cheetah before anyone else in the JL

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Round 9: straight up battle to the death. Bloodlusted. Everything goes

Everything I said in the last round applies, except now Spiderman could win by hitting him in the jaw a couple of times and Bats could win with one high powered explosive batarang or his Superman taser turned to max. IMO this still makes it a tie.

10: 8 without Spidey sense.

Batman takes the majority, without it he will hit Spiderman a whole lot more

11: 9 without spidder sense

It won't matter. Whoever hits first wins this

12: durability. Who can tank more damage?

Granted these are the upper end feats, but they are pretty damn consistent

13: who can lift more?

Batman can lift around 1 ton max (idk the specifics as I'd need to calc it), Spiderman lifts 60+ tons max. Easily Peter

14: who can punch harder?

While Batman does have a ridiculously hard punch (dents bullet proof armor, can hit with enough force to shatter a human skull), Spiderman does win this. (due to his higher general strength)

15: who can dodge faster?

With Spidersense, Spidey easily takes this

16: who can dodge faster without spidder sense?

I'm inclined to say Batman has a slight edge, but I very well may be wrong as I'm not super familiar with Peter's showings without SS:

Disarming:

Vs. Speedsters:

Gunfire:

[–]KerdicZ 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm inclined to say Batman has a slight edge, but I very well may be wrong as I'm not super familiar with Peter's showings without SS

Spider sense does not exactly makes Spidey faster. His speed and agility should logically remain the same. He just won't have that extra OP sense to help him dodge bullets from behind his back and such.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Spider sense does not exactly makes Spidey faster. His speed and agility should logically remain the same. He just won't have that extra OP sense to help him dodge bullets from behind his back and such.

All reaction feats are "improved" by SS, he is still fast, I just don't know how fast

[–]KerdicZ 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If I loose both my eyes, I should still run, jump and punch just as fast. It just deeply increases the chances of me fucking up and falling or being hit. Same for Spider sense.

My opinion though.

IIRC, there is a scan where Peter is dodging some bullets without SS, but eventually gets hit by one. He still is fast, just can't sense the bullets anymore.

If I do find it, I will link it here.

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I loose both my eyes, I should still run, jump and punch just as fast. It just deeply increases the chances of me fucking up and falling or being hit. Same for Spider sense.

Spider sense lets him know that something is coming from x direction and from where, effectively he is always aim dodging

IIRC, there is a scan where Peter is dodging some bullets without SS, but eventually gets hit by one. He still is fast, just can't sense the bullets anymore.

I know he could dodge some, but if he was hit then he is slower than Batman

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

That's awesome. My respect for bats just went through the roof.

Man I thought kenichi characters would consistently win :/

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Have you checked out my mega Batman respect thread yet? Because this is pretty much a scan dump directly from that with some explanation thrown in.

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

The one I linked to up top?

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes and no. Choco didn't want me to post the Mega RT on /r/respectthreads, so I made a whole subreddit for it. IF you look at that RT at the top there is a link to the mega RT

[–]Feminineside[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh I missed that. I'll probably check it out next time I get into a batman debate. I've been trying to transition into being more of a scan user.

[–]YungMilque999 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd normally argue that an in character Spiderman v. an in character Batman would be a 6-7/10 in Peter's favor, but after making Batman's respect thread I think I've changed my mind. Let me break it down

Doing God's work. People will still overestimate/underestimate Spidey and Bats (respectively), I'm saving this comment next time I see a Batman vs. Spidey thread

[–]Ame-no-nobuko 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doing God's work. People will still overestimate/underestimate Spidey and Bats (respectively), I'm saving this comment next time I see a Batman vs. Spidey thread

Yeah, also if anyone is wondering I now think Batman wins Cap v. Batman by a solid margin