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[–]dontcomearoundhere 36ポイント37ポイント  (82子コメント)

Fake feminism is upper middle class college educated white women complaining about mansplaining and manspreading. Also the same women who major in English and then write endlessly about the lack of women in computer science, etc.

[–]Goddess_of_Beauty [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I got a degree in feminist studies and a majority of the feminists in my program (at least 100 students) were more focused on intersectional and transnational feminism, which included bringing the western world back to the realities of women such as the ones posted. Hell, I taught two classes on transnational feminism where my entire curriculum was based on Iranian women's rights and Malala Yousafzai's fight in Swat Valley.

I also have never met anyone who actually cared to complain about the lack of women in computer science. We had bigger issues to think about. At this point, I'm fairly certain this is a myth based on a few feminist's opinions online. They don't speak for all of us.

[–]ShuffleShuffle-Hbomb [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

degree in feminist studies

What kind of career does this degree lead to? (Serious question)

[–]Goddess_of_Beauty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm a sexual assault victim advocate. I'm working on my master's in nonprofit administration so then I can be in the position to open a women's shelter someday.

[–]The_Meowntain 122ポイント123ポイント  (31子コメント)

That argument is similar to how people say that no one in the States should complain about being hungry because someone has it worse somewhere else. Just because people aren't being executed here for being women does not mean that sexism does not exist in Western society.

Edit: the comment i replied to initially had a paragraph talking about how hypothetical rich white folk eating caviar somehow makes sexism in Western society nonexistent.

[–]Into-the-stream 15ポイント16ポイント  (38子コメント)

I just read an article outlining how women spend twice as long in the ER in the US as men with the same symptoms, because doctors don't take their complaints of pain seriously. It's pretty well documented that women don't make as much as men. I watched as a parent told their daughter "those science kits are for boys" then directed them to the dolls. I mean, nearly every single child photographed on said science kits were boys, but still...

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean feminists in the us aren't needed.

[–]RickardIron [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Link for that ER article? I feel like you may have mis-stated it. Wouldn't they be leaving the ER sooner if their claims of pain were considered less than trustworthy? Legit curious, not trying to dispute.

The wage gap claim will need a source, and a good one, since it is so heavily and rightly disputed due to the horrid methods used in almost every research paper on the subject. If we can get an accurate representation of the potential wage gap, excluding things like pay differences between the young/elderly of opposite genders and including things like gender overtime differences, then we can talk about it. Until then, there's too much smoke n' mirrors for that to be a good point. (Example of how stupid the current concept of the wage gap is: new study says women without children in their 20s make more than their male counterparts. I can't find the raw data for this article, but statistics are so easy to skew that something like this or something like the "women make 75 cents on the male dollar" statistic can easily be produced from practically the same data) The wage gap needs a whole lot, whooooole lot, more unbiased research before it can be an acceptable point in an argument.

Feminism in the West needs to change or direct its attention to where it is needed. Sexism will always exist, and will always exist both ways. See, because I'm a man, my sister who has been in 5 accidents (4/5 her fault, regularly gets ticketed) pays a lot less in insurance than I do (not a single accident, no moving violations in 5+ years). Because I'm a man, I'm quite unlikely to win a custody battle. Because I'm a man, there's a lower chance of me graduating (or going to) college. Because I'm a man, if I get black-out drunk and have sex with a girl who was black-out drunk, I can be charged with rape (but I can't make the same claim). Because I'm a man, I can be sent into combat in a potential draft, but women can't.

Sexism exists in the West, but Feminism as it stands is not the answer. Rape culture does not exist, no one really thinks that women shouldn't be allowed in STEM, and withdrawing consent after the fact is stupid. Let's move on to real issues, or move on to other countries with real issues.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ok here is the article, but please read through the entire thing before making conclusions and deciding I misstated the article. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/10/emergency-room-wait-times-sexism/410515/

[–]RickardIron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Okay, I read it, but I also found absolutely no studies or research or data beyond this. It's not really even research, more of an essay. =/

So I think we can probably abandon that concept for now, too, at least until there's any degree of real data on it. I'm not saying it isn't possible or it's false or anything, just that there's nothing contributing to it that has any objective or unbiased merit.

[–]Faulty_Plumbing [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

The US, hell, the world needs FEMINISTS. Not the sensationalized concept that some people seem to confuse with feminism. Also, feminists aren't exclusive to the female gender.

[–]Wallaby-wacker [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The US, hell, the world needs CHRISTIANS. Not the sensationalized concept that some people seem to confuse with christianity. Also, feminists aren't exclusive to the white race.

See how easy it is to plug one cureall snake oil solution for the worlds problems in for another kind of snake oil cure all?

[–]Faulty_Plumbing [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If you're trying to completely miss the point, then yes, I do see. It's very simple.

[–]Wallaby-wacker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Good. Then maybe you should adopt a fact based model of reality and not spend so much energy on that which cannot be proven or demonstrated.

[–]hedgeson119 [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

It's pretty well documented that women don't make as much as men.

You aren't talking about in the U.S. are you?

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

forbes article stating in 2014, women make $0.77 on the dollar men make.

wikipedia article claiming its closer to $0.82 on the dollar in 2013.

[–]Res_lpsa_Loquitur [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

...You know that the $0.77 nonsense has been debunked, correct? Women don't make 33% less for the same job.

[–]hedgeson119 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Oh... oh boy... That's not good, you're parroting misinformation...

Feminist on the wage gap.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

So if the article you linked is correct, they think the wage gap is 6.6 cents, but they are still figuring it out? I'll admit 93.4 cents on the dollar is better then 77. But it doesn't prove the need for feminism is delusional.

[–]hedgeson119 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I never said the "need for feminism is delusional."

If we want to address these issues we should address them properly. We should use data and rational thought to solve problems, not resort to demonizing people.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

This thread began because someone wrote that American feminists are fake and upset about problems that don't exist. Hence the "delusional" statement I made. I'm trying to keep to the original argument.

[–]PreceptorCheck [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We should use data and rational thought

Both of which you would promptly ignore because you linked a Christina Hoff Summers article, a known anti-feminist, in favor of your often-debunked feels backed up by even more debunked "research papers" that say "Hey, when you control for all the factors that make the wage gap exist, there's no wage gap! Magic!"

Christina Hoff Summers is a feminist like the Pope is a protestant

[–]PreceptorCheck [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Christina Hoff Summers is not a feminist. This isn't a le "no true scotsman" meme fallacy either, she is demonstrably anti-feminist

[–]Jerem1ah_EU [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

One of the major reasons why women here in Germany earn less than men is simply because men are more greedy. When it comes to wage discussions during the interview women generally are satisfied with less than man are.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Are little girls encouraged from a young age to be less assertive?

[–]Jerem1ah_EU [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

No, women are less assertive by nature. Men tend to hubris while women are more humble.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Also, if your only argument that sexism doesn't exist is that men are inherently better at "x" then I don't really feel like you are arguing your point very well.

[–]Into-the-stream [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

In your opinion

[–]Jerem1ah_EU [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No its a fact. There were several articles about that when the "female quota" was discussed in Germany.

[–]Oh_umms_cocktails [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

this line of conversation perfectly demonstrates how the conservative argument against wage equality eventually just breaks down to sexism.

[–]Jerem1ah_EU [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

explain to me how exactly the normal difference between women and men is sexism?

[–]Luckboy28 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Everybody is suppose to rationally self-interested. It's not greedy to negotiate the highest salary that the company is willing to pay -- both genders should be doing this. Seriously.

By your logic, you might as well have said "the men are smart and the women are pushovers who accept what they're given."

[–]Jerem1ah_EU [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

... What I said isn't a false statement or my own opinion. Its a fact.

[–]RickardIron 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

college educated people*

FTFY

[–]Ploxjump [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

yeah, dumb white women!!!1 Shut the fuck up.