全 18 件のコメント

[–]fondue13 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you saying that a white person told you, as a black person, that you weren't checking your privilege with regards to other black people, concerning a primarily black hairstyle?

If so, that would match a lot of my experiences with quite a few well-meaning but misguided folks in the SJ movement. It surprises me, frequently, that no matter where one goes, there are still white people wanting to explain racism to us poor black folk... like that's "something else we just don't get".

[–]Nemesysbr[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, sorta. I don't think he treats me with condescension for being black, but it is a little amusing to me that a white person was saying I am not black enough.

Regardless, the point still stands, that I am black, but not poor. I don't live in the slums and no one ever sneered at me or acted like I was possibly dangerous for my outfit or skin colour(as far as I am aware). But I don't really know if that's a bad way of looking at it or if cultural appropriation really is that reductive and I should just accept it.

edit: People perceive me as black, and they obviously can't see the difference or know my background from looking, but I still have a much "whiter" life experience than most, specially by social justice's description of the things black people face.

[–]P_Grammicus 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think you should inform your white friend that you and other black people don't need them deciding who is black enough to wear dreadlocks.

[–]Nemesysbr[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Then hypothetically, if my friend was not only also black, but black from the poor part of town, would you think he has a point?

[–]P_Grammicus -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Personally, not really. I don't think that actions that connect a person to their own ethnic heritage can be cultural appropriation.

I certainly can think of certain behaviours that fall really flat when people of one class adopt something from another, which is what your black friend example might demonstrate, but I don't know if I'd call that cultural appropriation exactly. But even if it was, I'm a bit puzzled by someone thinking that a certain level of oppression and hardship is required to wear a pretty common hairstyle. Financial/class privilege is a huge deal, and should be checked, I'm just not seeing here why it comes into play.

[–]Nemesysbr[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dunno. Maybe the stigma that would come from me using dreadlocks is way bigger if I'm poor or something like that? I'm still trying to understand this concept myself.

[–]P_Grammicus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if it was, I don't think that should preclude you from wearing a hairstyle that is intimately connected with your heritage. Your privilege wrt your class/material circumstances doesn't change just because of them. I mean, that privilege is real, and everything is going to intersect with it, that doesn't preclude you from participating in aspects of your heritage.

[–]Neemii 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I feel like this person is kind of missing the point of cultural appropriation. Yeah, black people from poor neighbourhoods are absolutely more persecuted, but dreadlocks don't only come from those neighbourhoods - they come from a cultural history that you would share with them. Not to mention that frequently people assume black people are lower / working class just because they are black anyways, and having dreadlocks is sometimes seen as a marker of this (which is why white people are so invested in thinking about them as "unclean"). Dreadlocks and other hairstyles that are traditional and natural for afro-textured hair have been portrayed as "unclean" for years and are currently still heavily policed as being "unprofessional" in many contexts. This obviously doesn't only happen to poor black people. Hell, wasn't there a story in the news not that long ago about a black man who got hauled into jail after buying an expensive belt or something? He had already paid for it and left the store, but because he was black they assumed he had stolen it. That had nothing to do with his class and everything to do with the fact that he was a black person.

It makes absolutely no sense to say that only those who are the most persecuted for practicing their culture are allowed to practice their culture - especially when it's someone who isn't even from that culture saying so. Your aquaintance is just going right back to policing black people for how they "do" blackness to say this sort of thing. The same idea that says you are somehow "less black" because you are middle class is what lets people do weird shit like decide that some black / other racialized people are "the good ones" because they can perform whiteness in certain ways. And then, consequently, you say that the only "really" black people must be "the bad ones," further enforcing the idea that being black is inherently bad / unclean / immoral.

tl;dr it's really fucked up for a white guy to claim to know more about black culture than a black person. also class and race are different things. also while i am sure there are differences between poor black [insert wherever you live here] culture and middle class black [insert wherever you live here] culture, dreadlocks aren't exclusive to one particular group of black people as far as I'm aware since they are a pretty natural way of wearing hair of a particular texture. also as an also white person who does anthropology, athropology's entire history is racist as fuck, so if your acquaintance is trying to use that to tell you they know your culture better than you do please don't hesitate to tell them they are full of it and need to go back to their books.

[–]Nemesysbr[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow. Thanks a lot for giving such a detailed response. I have also noticed a lot of people on the left don't really respect anthropology, I wonder why. I am not really a political scientist so I wouldn't know.

[–]Neemii 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just got a really awful history of being used to justify discriminatory practices. It's been used as a tool to "other" basically anyone who's not a white European man. There's also a lot of cool reclaiming kind of work that's been done more recently through anthropological methods but that still doesn't really erase where it all comes from!

[–]SoupTyrant -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I was wondering about cultural appropriation, does it not go both ways? Everyime I've seen it mentioned it's white people with dreadlocks, is it also bad that Annie is being re-made with an all black cast, or James Bond is being cast with a black guy, or when Black people participate in Oktoberfest?

Personally I don't think cultural appropriation is a bad thing in either direction, when you have cultures mixing in close proximity, or even just in this age of the internet people are going to adopt things they enjoy from other cultures.

But anyway, any thoughts on Cultural appropriation going in both directions for any races/cultures, not necessarily just black/white in America?

Edit Downvotes for asking a question about something I don't understand, but no explanations. What's the deal?

[–]Lolor-arros 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Personally I don't think cultural appropriation is a bad thing in either direction

You're talking about something other than appropriation right there.

I think that's why you're being downvoted.

Things can cross cultures without it being considered appropriation.

[–]shitty_cartoon 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

(I'm not the person you were replying to, btw)

At what point does something go from simply "crossing cultures" to appropriation? While I do understand the harm of appropriation, I've never understood how the line is drawn. What factors should be taken into account when determining whether something is appropriation?

[–]Neemii 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

some possible things to think about when you're wondering if something is cultural appropriation:

  • have people from this culture been persecuted for participating in this cultural practice?
  • have people from this culture been stopped from participating this cultural practice?
  • do you think someone from this culture would be looked down on by people for participating in this cultural practice?
  • does this practice have spiritual significance?
  • do you understand the meaning of this practice to people from this culture?
  • were you invited to do this thing by someone from this culture?
  • when it doubt, google it and look for opinions from members of whatever culture the practice is from!

[–]Lolor-arros -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I usually defer to experts on that, personally, or at least people who know what they're talking about. I don't :P

Google can help with stuff like this. Search out a couple of different perspectives. Consider what they're saying, without accepting or rejecting it. And form your own opinion!

I don't trust myself to start from nothing, it would take a couple of solid college educations to round out my knowledge enough for that. But I can start with a mixed pile of reputable and disreputable opinions and statements and paragraphs and pages, and try to find the best of them to ponder.