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Is KIA a harassment sub? (self.GGdiscussion)

absoluteposition が 投稿

I see constant accusations that it is, yet no evidence that it is.

To anti-GG, how do you justify claims that it is a harassment sub? And if you admit that it isn't how can you maintain that GG is actually about harassment if none actually occurs?

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[–]Binturung 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been on that sub since nearly the beginning. Never saw any coordinated efforts to harass. It was actively discouraged by mods and users alike. Aside from many users actively denouncing the practice, doing so also kept KIA from the chopping block.

Please note this is not me agreeing with the positions people on that sub take. Merely that when asked "is that a harassment sub"? I feel confident in saying no its not.

[–]enmat 9ポイント10ポイント  (19子コメント)

What is a 'harassment sub'?

[–]Netscape9It's time to get schwifty! 17ポイント18ポイント  (9子コメント)

/r/ShitRedditSays

[–]ShodenShowed 'em![M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Approved, I have no reason to doubt that Netscape9 really believes this is a harassment sub without getting into mind reading territory I won't get into.

[–]jakezorzPronounced "Jacque-aze-orz" 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol.

[–]apinkgayelephant 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm sure you'd be consistent and have the same opinion about the similarly set up /r/ShitGhaziSays, correct?

[–]Kyoraki 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

One has direct links to comments. The other only allows self posts with archive.is and imgur links. To say they're similarly set up is intellectually dishonest.

[–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

So one of them jumps through hoops they don't have to, and the other doesn't?

[–]Kyoraki [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If by hoops you mean measures to make sure people can't easily use the sub as a base of operations to harass others, then yes. SGS puts the effort in to preventing abuse, and SRS doesn't. Says a lot about how the communities are run, no?

[–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

SGS puts the effort in to preventing abuse, and SRS doesn't. Says a lot about how the communities are run, no?

Yeah, one of them is doing something they don't have to for no reason, and the other one isn't.

Personally archive.is doesn't work on my work computer so I'm glad none of the places I visit use that.

At least you guys are done with the "but they're not using NP, that means they're horrible people!" argument.

What it says to me is: archives and imgurs aren't necesry.

Also, almost everything SRS links is highly upvoted and it wouldn't make any sense if the post was downvoted. Then it wouldn't be fit for a SRS submission.

So the whole thing is based on self-defeating logic IMO. SRS brigading things would actually make their message less strong.

[–]apinkgayelephant -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

One has direct links to comments.

Yes. One plays mildly looser. It still probably allows the other methods you mentioned (or didn't).

The other only allows self posts with archive.is and imgur links.

Wrong. It also allows np links. Now who's the one being dishonest?

To say they're similarly set up is intellectually dishonest.

Not really. Is linking through archive or np reddit that big of a deterrent as opposed to linking directly to a comment thread?

Is pointing people to comments that the users will disagree with the makings of a harassment sub or not?

[–]Now_Do_Classical_Gas [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Show me a post like this on SGS.

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]Teuthex[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

    R4.

    [–]3rdpartySJW -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Why did this get R4 and Netscape's comment didn't?

    [–]jakezorzPronounced "Jacque-aze-orz" 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because most of the mods here are waaaay more nitpicky about comments that are AntiGG.

    [–]Teuthex[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I have absolutely no idea what comment you're talking about.

    [–]princess_y_fronts -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    There's a number of other subs on reddit which automatically ban users for having ever posted in KIA on the grounds that KIA is a harassment sub.

    I am going to give them a huge benefit of the doubt and say that they must have some sort of criteria/definition for that.

    [–]Googlebochs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I've been on kia for ages now.. the best argument to kia is a "harrassment sub" is riddled with assumptions and consists of basically this:

    assholes see a topic on kia and go out of their way to independantly search for the concerned party to harrass them. with no call to action no direct link and no community approval.

    which frankly would be out of kia's controll if it was true.

    [–]Neo_Techni 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    There were a lot of places that didn't allow black customers too. That's hardly a logical justification.

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    except buying a service is a right and being on a sub-reddit is not something you are entitled to

    [–]Eschatonreddit 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes it absolutely is a harassment sub, if you define harassment however you like!

    [–]TheHat2Top Cat in a Top Hat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In my time running the sub, I can safely say that no, KiA never encouraged harassment. We deleted as much as we could that came close, and had Automod configurations to pull things like dox, as well as flag any posts that had inflammatory language (insults, slurs, etc.), after we noticed that the people who would encourage harassment or anything similar would typically use abusive and particularly vulgar language.

    That's also why some people say that KiA became "anti-free speech," because we tried to cover our bases to keep undesirables out.

    [–]ShodenShowed 'em! 9ポイント10ポイント  (57子コメント)

    I don't make those claims.

    I claim KiA is a dumb sub that in general acts as a shameless culture war call out sub just like SRS, ghazi, or TiA. I am not a fan of those types of subs. They reinforce extremism, conspiracy theories, and perpetuate harassment even if they don't participate in it directly. They aren't in any way healthy communities. To a lesser extent this applies to SRD and BoOC.

    I can maintain GG is about harassment, and tons of other things, because no one is in control of "GG". It's an anonymous amouphous leaderless mob. It's about what anyone says it's about since that can't be proven or disproven. That goes from ethics to harassing women. There is no correct answer to "what GG is really about".

    [–]Legacylizard 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    unfortunately some people do.

    http://i.imgur.com/L1RbLRo.png

    [–]MisandryOMGguize -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I mean, even if KiA isn't a harassment sub, it has definitely at the least endorsed harassment and other shitty behavior (Milo's sad, unethical attempts to out Briannu Wu as trans, the various doxxing of random aGG people, etc,) so I don't really see the statement in that message to be too off base.

    [–]absoluteposition[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (54子コメント)

    Isn't feminism an amorphous leaderless mob?

    [–]ShodenShowed 'em! 5ポイント6ポイント  (53子コメント)

    Sure is, it also originally the very word for "advocacy for women's rights" and has over a hundred years of history, schism's and different movements within it.

    Gamergate is a stupid word Adam Baldwin made up to term a hashtag that people took up as a name for their whatever.

    Feminism is a concept with real definitions that I grant you is used so broadly it becomes meaningless at times. That is why I don't bother trying to defend "feminists" as a whole just because they call themselves feminists. Nor do I defend "feminism" as a whole, but the concept of advocacy for women's rights since feminism, after decades, has become imbued with a meaning I do not always wish to communicate.

    Gamergate as a whatever lacks anything but people making claims about what it is from the start, often contradictory ones. It fails to communicate anything meaningful other than "associate me with this label I have no control over". That has always seemed like a mistake to me, to defend the a meaningless label because you want it to have your specific meaning.

    Edit: I use "actually" to much and it annoys even me, actually.

    [–]GnivilPro-GG 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Could you not say that for literally any political viewpoint, though? Liberalism, Conservatism, Progressivism, etc?

    [–]ShodenShowed 'em! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes you could, except those words you just typed actually have some meaning inherent to them. Sure it's abused and often argued meaning, but there is like accepted academic definitions of those things.

    Gamergate doesn't have that luxury, hell I am sure people would argue it's not even a political viewpoint in any sense.

    [–]ThatGuyWhoYells 5ポイント6ポイント  (50子コメント)

    Is it weird when criticizing GamerGate, a consumer revolt against unethical video game journalism, that one of the goto defenses is "Well, what about feminism?"

    [–]IronShoggoth 4ポイント5ポイント  (49子コメント)

    No, since most strong GG opponents are feminists.

    [–]MisandryOMGguize -3ポイント-2ポイント  (48子コメント)

    And pretty much literally every strong GG advocate is an anti-feminist.

    [–]IronShoggoth 4ポイント5ポイント  (46子コメント)

    No, since you're probably anti-TERF, but that doesn't mean you're anti-feminist. Just anti one subsection of feminism.

    [–]MisandryOMGguize 0ポイント1ポイント  (45子コメント)

    Yeah, that one kind you like being the kind that says that sexism against men is the biggest issue, men can do nothing wrong, and is employed by a far right think tank. (Christina Hoff Sommers)

    [–]IronShoggoth 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No there's Liana K as well, who I'm sure you also have a problem with since they're not your brand of feminist.

    But even if they're not up to snuff with you, they're still feminists. Ergo, you're full of it.

    [–]absoluteposition[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (43子コメント)

    "Christina Hoff Sommers".

    I've yet to see anyone dispute her on any other grounds than ad-hom's and links to the right. Why not tackle her on the facts, as surely they are important rather than the ridiculous tautology that is the extreme left argument.

    [–]MisandryOMGguize -2ポイント-1ポイント  (41子コメント)

    She has ridiculous views that are antithetical to both reality, and feminism, the most prominent of which is that sexism against men is a bigger problem than sexism against women, which she largely denies.

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Dispute what, exactly?

    She's literally not a feminist. If anti-feminists quote you regularly, you have articles lamenting that its hard to be a boy and easy to be a girl, and spend your time talking about how awful feminism is ...

    Yeah, you're probably not a feminist

    edit: downrons, really??? but I though this was a neutral debate sub for both sides??

    [–]Longtymlurkr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Feminists in America are a minority now btw.

    [–]MouonPro-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Obviously not, people who say it is are either lying or delusional, or have simply bought into the AGG narrative and have no idea.

    [–]mcmanusaur 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, it is a thought-terminating subreddit that sometimes resorts to abuse and harassment apologetics.

    [–]Longtymlurkr 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    When you find sexism and racism in everything you see, everything becomes harassment.

    [–]Teuthex 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

    And if you admit that it isn't how can you maintain that GG is actually about harassment if none actually occurs?

    Because there are a whole lot of GG hubs that aren't KiA.

    [–]Netscape9It's time to get schwifty! 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    They would need to prove that those other places cause harassment. Even then though, KiA not being about harassment is factual proof that GamerGate was never about harassment, since it's the biggest hub and there are tens of thousands of people involved who aren't engaging in harassment.

    [–]OneJobToRuleThemAllIt's the biblical pronunciation of Job, like the name. 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Even then though, KiA not being about harassment is factual proof

    What definition of factual and proof are you using there?

    [–]Neo_Techni 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The sidebar, actions of the mods and users to prevent harassment. The gamergate harassment squad, that was done for free unlike that CON business

    [–]OneJobToRuleThemAllIt's the biblical pronunciation of Job, like the name. [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I asked for your definition, not for what you consider to fulfill your definition. And you aren't even Netscape9

    [–]surfpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Hubs like 8chan?

    I mean we can base our opinion of GG on 8chan but I don't think you'd like that

    [–]Teuthex [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Why else would I say that...?

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I thought maybe you were referring to hashtag activity, not 8chan and its super popular /hebe/ boards and such

    [–]Teuthex [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Well, of course I'm not referring to /hebe/, given that has nothing to do with Gamergate. I'm referring to the GG hubs on 8chan. /hebe/ is as much of a GG board as /r/ShitRedditSays is.

    [–]surfpro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yep. It participates in harassment by maintaining an unbridled culture of hate via daily anti-SJW circlejerks. They paint targets who inevitably get harassed. KIA doesn't give a shit if an individual's privacy is violated and their dirty laundry aired for all to see. They keep the threads up, full of comments spitting bile and hate at those feminist "cunts" as they are so fond of calling them. They're still obsessed with Quinn and Wu and Sarkeesian. At this point it's just pathetic.

    [–]jakezorzPronounced "Jacque-aze-orz" 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I don't think anyone opposed to GG (I am one of those people) has outright claimed that KiA is a "harassment sub." I think it enables people to harass and provides opportunities, but I do not think that anyone believes it is purely a "harassment sub."

    [–]absoluteposition[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Simply posting in KIA, for any reason, even once, will get you banned from several subreddits for that very reason. Am I imagining this?

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    That has nothing to do with anything. Some people don't want to hang out with a largely misogynist movement where people tend to say the same things over and over again. Perhaps OMC was just sick of GG posts.

    In the end, it doesn't matter. Sub-reddits can run how they want and that's their choice.

    [–]Now_Do_Classical_Gas 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You're so very, very wrong. Ghazi has repeatedly tried to get KiA shut down on those very grounds.

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Link?

    [–]Now_Do_Classical_Gas [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Here's one example.

    [–]EmptyEmptyInsides [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I know Brianna Wu wrote in an article that she appealed to Ellen Pao to shut down KiA. The one where she claimed that it was named in reference to the term "Killed in Action."

    [–]Now_Do_Classical_Gas 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No.

    /thread

    [–]MegaLucaribro -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    It isn't, but they are certainly useless now. I made a comment to some SRS mod posting there about how it would be funny if they ended up like laurelai bailey and they started talking about how I was making rape threats and were gonna report me for CP. They're so up their own asses with their PR that they are eating themselves like Ghazi does. So I unsubbed and am sticking to 8ch from now on.

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Be very careful about how you conduct yourselves. We have interested parties outside of this site keeping tabs on many of you. I'd "hate" to see another Laurelai incident occur.

    Yeah I mean who could possibly take this as a threat? It's not like you're literally threatening people.

    The laurelai can be taken many ways depending on Laurelai. What was she most famous for? Depends where you ask - in KiA it's being a pedophile or something, or spreading CP to 8chan (because there's no CP on 8chan of course).

    But yeah generally that reads as a threat to dox/ruin somebody, you even used "we".

    So ... do you realise you kinda just admitted in the post you made there that GG stalks and harasses people who anger it?

    EDIT: downrons? Really guize??

    [–]MegaLucaribro [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    You have no grounds to make a threat claim, and especially not a claim of CP or rape. It says, "watch what you post because people archive this shit, and you're going to end up like laurelai." I'm not worried about it, but it pisses me the fuck off that our own board members are so paranoid that they will turn on their own for no reason but to keep up appearance.

    I mean, really. Rape and CP? And these are accusations from my own side? Fuck 'em.

    [–]Strich-9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    You have no grounds to make a threat claim, and especially not a claim of CP or rape

    I didn't make the second thing, but it's definitely a threat. You literally are telling them to watch themselves and how they behave in case "we" decide to fuck you over. You even put quotation marks around "hate" because the idea of people who dislike GG being doxxed is something you don't actually hate.

    It says, "watch what you post because people archive this shit, and you're going to end up like laurelai."

    No it doesn't. It says "Be very careful about how you conduct yourselves. We have interested parties outside of this site keeping tabs on many of you. I'd "hate" to see another Laurelai incident occur."

    , but it pisses me the fuck off that our own board members are so paranoid that they will turn on their own for no reason but to keep up appearance.

    So you think that GG secretly agrees with your opinions and in threatening dox on people for attempting to post in KiA while also being a SRSer ... but they just want to keep up apperances? Who are these "interested parties", btw? I think you're likely making stuff up but I'm curious to know whether you're able to provide info that there are people just sitting around on behalf of gamergate, stalking and harassing people who speak against them. That would in fact prove that GG was a harassment campaign.

    I mean works either way for me. But personally I think that you are too extreme even for KiA, and that's saying something.

    I mean, really. Rape and CP? And these are accusations from my own side? Fuck 'em.

    I honestly don't know where the rape/cp arguments come from other than the accusation LL spammed 8chan with CP. But your "Laurelai incident" is so vague it could mean ANYTHIGN related to her. It could mean that, it could mean you're going to sleep with a married person, it could mean they're going to write a suicidal BlogSpot post, it could mean they're going to mod ironic anti-white sub-reddits and troll racists all day, it could mean they're going to have a porn video of them uploaded (please dear god never google this), it could mean they're going to become trans. It could mean ANYTHING.

    Because it's an intentionally vague threat.