上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]judgeholden72 19ポイント20ポイント  (99子コメント)

This all sounds familiar.

I'll say there's been some bias in the modding, but nothing major and nothing anyone should be getting annoyed about. Comes from your Rule 4, but really just comes from just how it goes.

Outside of some people, mostly Bitter, thinking some things are ok in one direction but less so in others, I'd say there's been nothing that seems biased. And that stuff is what counterbalances are for. Bitter, in particular, does a good job distinguishing and giving opportunity to edit.

[–]DrZeXNeutral 10ポイント11ポイント  (83子コメント)

It's funny, I'm here for maybe an hour and one of the first things I see is a topic about mod problems. Really does sound familiar.

Abandon ship in AGG and mod here, I would support you.

[–]n8summers 4ポイント5ポイント  (36子コメント)

I agree. Everyone's here, for better or... Nah, definitely for worst, so maybe you could improve things.

[–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 0ポイント1ポイント  (34子コメント)

It's far better here there is actually a level playing field for once.

[–]n8summers 8ポイント9ポイント  (32子コメント)

That's definitely a matter of opinion.

[–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 1ポイント2ポイント  (31子コメント)

How is there not? I would be willing to be I'm up there in comments removed so are other pros most likely.

[–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply 12ポイント13ポイント  (17子コメント)

People can call ZQ all kinds of names. I question EG as a victim I get my comments deleted.

[–]TaxTime2015Hypocrisy is boring 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I brought it to modmail. Nothing really.

[–]ShodenShowed 'em! 1ポイント2ポイント  (14子コメント)

Your comment was removed because of it's phrasing and bias. I have called out that bias with the mods. Our rules right now are too subjective, and we do not have enough consensus on details. In that very thread it's explained that questioned if EG is an actual "victim" is allowed.

[–]judgeholden72 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have you looked at the public ban list, perchance?

Or have you paid attention to how some people use "cuck" and get modded and others use it and don't?

Typical confirmation bias. People think things are great because it doesn't impact them all that much.

Ask the antis here, they'll say they're treated much more poorly than pros here. And they're probably as wrong as you were on the other site.

[–]MrWigglesworth2 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ask the antis here, they'll say they're treated much more poorly than pros here. And they're probably as wrong as you were on the other site.

On the contrary, I'd say they're both right.

I've already seen some mod activity here that's made me facepalm.

[–]Teuthex[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or have you paid attention to how some people use "cuck" and get modded and others use it and don't?

We had a discussion about that, actually. And a reminder that not everything gets reported, and to report posts you think break the rules. We've had a whole lot of people screaming bias who couldn't seem to find the report button first and just want to jump to the worst conclusion possible.

[–]TaxTime2015Hypocrisy is boring 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

How many times have you taken things to Modmail?

Have they responded?

[–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

I've been told to take things to modmail if I want to continue to dispute and not cared enough to do so.

[–]TaxTime2015Hypocrisy is boring 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

As have 90% of antis. I did. It wasn't helpful. And I hated it. I complained about being forced to the whole time. End result? Nothing. Everything stayed the same and no good explanation.

[–]Teuthex[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is probably because people aren't right every time they think they are.

[–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, buddy!

[–][削除されました]  (45子コメント)

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    [–][削除されました]  (14子コメント)

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      [–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

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        [–]Teuthex[S,M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        This was reported and it's fair to remove it given that what it's responding to is gone.

        [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Rule 1, turn down the snark.

        [–]justanotherjedi 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Hunh? 3 posts all talking about how terrible judgeholden was/is for agg and you can't say anything about it without being snarky?

        [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Appeals can be filed in modmail.

        [–]j-dank 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        what are you talking about, no bias here. praise gg, digra was an inside job, milo is god, fucking sjws, i think how zoe quinn was treated was unfairDELETED

        [–]Teuthex[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

        Yup. We want to change Rule 4, but we haven't had a formal discussion yet due to absent and busy people. We have very little of anything formal going on in the backend and are running around improvising like mad, and it's not a state of affairs anyone's terribly happy with.

        SoonTM. Hopefully TM

        [–][削除されました]  (9子コメント)

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          [–]ShodenShowed 'em![M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

          r1, "mild use of snark" is not an excuse to follow mods around with that snark.

          [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Thanks, buddy!

          [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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            [–]ShodenShowed 'em! 8ポイント9ポイント  (39子コメント)

            I want to post here that as one of the Anti-mods I haven't had issues working with the other mods. If anyone knows my history with Bitter and Teuthex, they would know it's, uh, volatile at best. I have been able to work with them fine because we are trying to create a discussion space.

            They have bias, I have bias, and we have been able to discuss how to correct for it. Teuthex is right, most of that bias coming through has been because people need to make judgement calls without input or let things sit forever. That combined with the obvious subjective nature of some rules is upsetting people about fairness. This is something that can be worked on, and if you want to have a space to talk about gamergate, and that includes talking about how wrong you think gamergate is, I think that is possible with more help.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 7ポイント8ポイント  (57子コメント)

            I don't like the precedence of having Steam and Bethesda taking most of the profits for something they didn't directly work on.

            Oh, wait, not that sort of mod.

            I volunteer for the fictional position of Flair Mod! The flair scene is lacking.

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 2ポイント3ポイント  (14子コメント)

            D: But I gave you like a secretly clever flair and everything...

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

            I like it!

            I've just noticed a number of "give me flair" flairs in the past, and I thought I could help out in the most noncommittal way possible.

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

            I'm not exactly the wittiest when it comes to flairs so I leave a few until an idea strikes, bleh.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Nothing but the highest quality of flairs, eh?

            I like the cut of your jib.

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Why thank you, good sir. They say inspiration strikes when you least expect it!

            [–]a_sticky_heresyIs currently posting from the pub 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I can't even drink :C

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            ...That makes it all the more funny actually.

            [–]a_sticky_heresyIs currently posting from the pub 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            C-check your privilege, baka! It's not like I wanted a flair anyway!

            [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

            A magical girl you say does this include powers and transformation sequences?

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Sure does! Just sign here, here, and here and please be aware that your soul will be placed in a tiny container and we are not responsible for any regret you have in the future which may turn you into a witch.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Aaaand signed, note how my signature looks like a dick

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Thanks for your contribution to stopping the heat death of the universe. We will have another magical girl come dispose of you soon after your inevitable decline into despair.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Jokes on you, I already have depression

            [–]RaineyJMake a contract with me and become a magical girl! 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Damn, you tricked me!

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Ha ha ha, free magical girl powers!

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 4ポイント5ポイント  (41子コメント)

            I actually gave a couple people flairs today.

            Edit: I know I did /u/Shoden, /u/Ch1mpanz33M1nd53t, and /u/SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATS

            [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

            I got a flair?

            EDIT: huh I guess that works.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

            If you want something else, let me know so I can fix it.

            Fixing it consisting of me saying "No, I'm still amused by your current flair" and doing nothing.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Can't he just reset it back to "give me a flair" and hope you don't remember what you set it to last time?

            That would seem like it would work.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Stop giving them ideas!

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I love finding loopholes, dammit.

            It makes the days go by faster.

            [–]Ch1mpanz33M1nd53tA continued simian headspace 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I like the way you think.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I don't.

            [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

            No it its good. I love me some goats ya know? But in a platonic way.

            [–]baaliscoming 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            so not like aberforth then?

            [–]judgeholden72 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I love me some goats ya know?

            So years ago I was on this really, really secluded beach in Greece. Laying on a beach with maybe 12 other people, no other people for miles, the Greek airforce occasionally buzzing in Vietnam-era jets... it was the life.

            Suddenly I hear this tinkling and turn around. Coming down a hill are goats. Lots of goats. Like, triple digit goats. And they just walk up to us, walk up to the water...

            Terrifying. Being outnumber that much, and I didn't grow up around livestock. I'm not even sure I've ever touched a horse or been within 20 feet of a cow. So being in a herd of goats... very creepy. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, just them, then you, then ocean.

            Those peanut eyes, man. They see your soul.

            [–]Netscape9It's time to get schwifty! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Well in that case, I want a new flair :P

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 0ポイント1ポイント  (27子コメント)

            Ugh, Bitter, you being good at modstuffs makes my application look silly. :(

            [–]Teuthex[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I... I took a flair away, once...

            I'll just be over here, being inadequate

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            /u/Bitter_one13 could take note of your example.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 1ポイント2ポイント  (24子コメント)

            I wouldn't call myself "good", just "enthusiastic".

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 4ポイント5ポイント  (23子コメント)

            Well, my original comment was "doing your job", but I changed it cause it could have been taken the wrong way.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 4ポイント5ポイント  (22子コメント)

            Know how it would be a job? If I got money for it.

            FUCKING PAY ME.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 3ポイント4ポイント  (21子コメント)

            What are you a victim of and can I have a link to your patreon?

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 4ポイント5ポイント  (20子コメント)

            ...Check your PMs.

            [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

            I'm actually surprised.

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 2ポイント3ポイント  (18子コメント)

            Trust me, I've been at the ironic crowdfunding game for a while.

            I've made -10 dollars off of it.

            [–]sikis91 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Would you take a mod who hardly browsers the subreddit, has had dwindling interest in GG as of late, and isn't willing to put in a lot of effort?

            [–]the_8th_guest 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Frankly that may be the best kind of mod.

            It seems like a big problem with /agg was that the mods spent all day gossiping and getting into petty arguments in Slack. That level of involvement isn't healthy nor should it be required.

            [–]sikis91 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That's pretty funny actually.

            [–]youchoob 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They have me for that ;)

            [–]ScarletIT 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            My fault. I am not being much active lately :(

            [–]scttydsntknw85Has +10 Hat of Charisma 3ポイント4ポイント  (28子コメント)

            From what I have seen there is a vocal minority who bitch about the pros getting better treatment because they have taken offense at one word a pro said and the mods didn't ban them for it.

            [–]the_8th_guest 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Looking at the wiki basically everyone who has had action taken against them are notorious bad actors and some of the worst posters on /agg. Two of them sent be PM hate mail after I found them breaking the rules of /agg.

            Kind of seems like the system is working as intended - those are exactly the kind of people who should have action taken against them.

            I don't know about the moderation of individual comments, but the wiki list of punitive actions looks very reasonable and frankly exactly what a rational person would predict.

            [–]neveradmityoucantype 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

            I had the same reaction to the ban list, nothing of value and all that. On the other hand after reading the Zoe Quinn thread I do think it's a shame that some pro-GGers get away with posting so much tendentious shit just because it's not against the rules. I don't think there's much the mods can do about it without having an official list of what's true and what's not but it's depressing to see conjecture repeatedly presented as fact and being upvoted.

            [–]the_8th_guest 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Maybe rules against very specific statements like "ZQ traded sex for good reviews" would work. I wouldn't mind a list of extremely common talking points that are disallowed because they are either false or always derails, but I doubt people could agree on what those things are.

            [–]neveradmityoucantype 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Yeah, I can't help but smile at the thought of a discussion about what obvious lies ought to be banned. There's already been a thread about the most-repeated lies in GamerGate and a consensus quickly emerged that one side's lies are actually just inconvenient truths whereas the other's are too silly to be indulged. I forget which was which.

            [–]the_8th_guest 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think the reality is that "both sides" quite frequently repeat things that have been endlessly debunked.

            The nature of internet conversations is that you can simply pretend not to notice when people point out that what you are saying is false, and then just repeat the exact same falsehood.

            I mean I'm in a conversation like that right now with another person in this thread!

            [–]jakezorzPronounced "Jacque-aze-orz" 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

            This kind of reminds me of /r/AGG except the problem now is that ProGG is favored instead of AGG. Also, as a sidenote, thanks for the amazing custom flair, mods. <3

            [–]Neo_Techni 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

            The way I see it as, they are pro-treating-us-like-human-beings which is a big step to solving aggs problems

            [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That I would absolutely agree with.

            [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Atleast AGG didn't over moderate the points they disagreed with

            [–]CesspoolofHatredA miserable little cesspit of hatred, secrets, and lies 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

            How does I mod application

            [–]Teuthex[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

            Honestly; did you send one before? I saw your name somewhere else and it made me half-remember one but I don't know how full of it I am.

            [–]CesspoolofHatredA miserable little cesspit of hatred, secrets, and lies 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

            We've talked before, in the topic about how to handle bans. I jumped into one or two comment threads there.

            That was just pretty much me making suggestions, though. I'd be happy to give modding a shot.

            [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Okay. We definitely need an anti mod, so consider yourself on the shortlist.

            [–]CesspoolofHatredA miserable little cesspit of hatred, secrets, and lies 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Hooray!

            [–]XAbraxasXXKadabraxasX XAlakazamxasX 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            No, NO! Don't consider someone whose alias is a bastardized alternative of a proud and noble gaming adage!

            It's MISERABLE PILE OF SECRETS, you fiend! >:(

            [–]CesspoolofHatredA miserable little cesspit of hatred, secrets, and lies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            it was actually supposed to be "Cesspit" not "Cesspool", but I misremembered : (

            [–]absoluteposition 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I would volunteer, but as a free-speech near absolutist I doubt there would be a whole lot of point. :)

            [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

            And if anyone is worried about friction with other mods already on staff, let me just say this: Don't dismiss out of hand the possibility that our enmity against each other can't be overridden by a greater hatred; shithead users who shit up our sub with shitty comments.

            [–]Quiet-Thinker 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Holy crap that is accurate.

            [–]caffienatedjediCoffee leads to hate, hate leads to Starbucks 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I'm almost tempted, since I feel I do a fair amount of reporting. It does get me that some things seem like pretty gross and clear violations, and the user instantly starts bitching they had their post removed and they didn't do anything wrong.

            Man, its like being an internet cop, where its your fault people broke the rules.

            Hrmmm, to pick up the baton or to keep what little sanity I have left. Tough choice.

            [–]Teuthex[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I... vaguely know who you are!

            ...I think!

            [–]caffienatedjediCoffee leads to hate, hate leads to Starbucks 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Its something!

            [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

            [removed]

              [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Rude.

              [–]Strich-9 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

              shithead users who shit up our sub with shitty comments.

              I feel like I remember a couple of people from AGG who had a reputation for that

              [–]j-dank 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              nah come on, they left and started a new sub somewhere else i think

              [–]DoIReallyNeedAThrowa 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I remember a bunch of people like that

              [–]Strich-9 6ポイント7ポイント  (9子コメント)

              My issue is that the Rule 4 seems to ONLY be used by Teuthex and Bitter, often for each others arguments. The anti mods don't claim mind-reading powers or accuse people of "lying" so they can delete their posts.

              So it's unbalanced.

              There's a reason a KiA guy was posting here for 2 days before he even realise this wasn't a 100% proGG sub

              [–]roguedoodles 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

              Reminds me of AGG when it first started. KiA 2.0 sans slurs, with pro-GG people saying how much they love it because it's so "balanced."

              [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

              KiA 2.0 sans slurs

              Perhaps I'm blinded by bias, but isn't that good? As far as I know KiA doesn't have any rules that prohibit opposing views, so "sans slurs" is surely all that is required to have a neutral sub?

              [–]roguedoodles 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Sans slurs is definitely a great improvement, but I don't agree that prohibiting slurs is the only thing required to have a neutral sub. Do you think AGG is truly neutral? I thought you were arguing that they've been too biased?

              [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

              I think it was neutral on paper, just lacked equal enforcement. The rules are solid imo.

              [–]roguedoodles 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

              So you agree it takes more than prohibiting slurs to make a sub truly neutral, then? I think some feel this sub lacks equal enforcement, too.

              [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I've not seen any unequal enforcement on this sub (and the mods are a hell of a lot faster at responding to reports than AGG), but I do hear of it. With a subject as charged as GG, I think the mods really have to be beyond squeaky clean.

              Heck, they're looking for mods, why not apply so you can right this wrong?

              [–]roguedoodles 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I'd like to give this sub a chance if they can get beyond the growing pains and actually foster good and balanced debate. Not sure I can commit to the extra responsibility of being a mod, though.

              [–]caesar_primusPrimus meaning first here, and not a mid-90s alt rock band 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This one actually allows slurs.

              [–]razorbeamzSadly not a special DBZ move 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Shoden has definitely been using it too.

              [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

              No matter how hard we try to avoid it, this is probably going to lead to some bias,

              Understatement of the millennium right here.

              [–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                HEY BUDDY, I'M LOOKING THROUGH THE PILE.

                I DON'T SEE YOUR MOD APPLICATION.

                DID YOU MAKE SURE TO SEND IT?

                [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSGoats only - tits and asses need not apply -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                "some" implies that they are even trying to correct for it, which they are not.

                [–]Teuthex[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                This is us trying to correct for it.

                This right here.

                [–]baaliscoming 1ポイント2ポイント  (36子コメント)

                I'm disliking the number of deletions in this meta post entitled "talk about mods".

                [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (35子コメント)

                Should people be allowed to insult others just because it's a meta post entitled "talk about mods"?

                [–]baaliscoming 1ポイント2ポイント  (33子コメント)

                people criticizing the mods should be given a good deal more leeway in meta posts. META posts and modmail are two places where a wider variety of criticism should not be silenced.

                are certain people really just insulting the mods or criticizing their behavior? It seems like the deleted posts are mainly about the latter. Don't get me wrong it's a somewhat tricky line to toe but it seems to me you're deleting and banishing to modmail conversations that naturally are going to come up in this sort of META post

                [–]pancakewizard81 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                if you're getting complaints from pro and anti, you're probably doing a good job.

                [–]Neo_Techni 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Getting anti mods would eventually lead to the same issues of againstgamergate. What you need is mods that won't eventually have the power to treat gamergaters as less than human, when all the pro mods get fed up by them and leave.

                Frankly certain bad actors from againstgamergate should have been banned. The ones responsible for harassment.

                And certain claims should be against the rules just to stop fighting. No more "gamergate is just misogyny", no more " antigamergate is not a side" for example.

                [–]Teuthex[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                What you need is mods that won't eventually have the power to treat gamergaters anti-gamergaters as less than human, when all the pro anti mods get fed up by them and leave.

                It cuts both ways.

                Frankly certain bad actors from againstgamergate should have been banned.

                Don't worry, we fully intend to ban bad actors, but we're operating from a clean slate here. They need to act badly here first.

                [–]Dwavenhobble 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

                I've said for a while I'm up for it if you just need someone doing Janitor work and responding to reports.

                [–]Teuthex[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

                ...I have absolutely no idea who you are.

                Should I know who you are?

                /u/Bitter_one13, should I know who this is?

                [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                The fuck is a Dwavenhobble?

                [–]Dwavenhobble 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Probably not lol

                Though it may well cut the number of reports by half as I'm sure I've upset a few people lol

                [–]Teuthex[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                I'm honestly not sure I've ever seen you before, in mod queue or otherwise.

                [–]Dwavenhobble 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                well I've been around KIA since fairly early on. Admittedly I've not done much notable in GG other than the whole Microsoft not paying indie developers thing last year.

                [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Ah, that'd be it. I've mostly been in AGG and have just used KiA as a news aggregate, aside from translating the wikidrama to layman's terms back in fall/winter.

                I skimmed your recent comments, seems legit.

                We'll consider it.

                [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego -1ポイント0ポイント  (108子コメント)

                I haven't actually seen that many complaints about moderation, just trolls or known shitposters trying to bait mods into banning them.

                Keep up the good work mods, and in case you don't hear it enough: thanks.

                [–]judgeholden72 1ポイント2ポイント  (107子コメント)

                And the antis always said this on /agg.

                At this point, why not just merge the subs? They've become mirror images.

                [–]erimanPro-GG 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Per blockpuppet. There are now no pro-GG mods in the moderation team and no neutrals leaning pro. This is a simple first step to begin addressing the problems over there, and yet it seems somehow impossibly difficult to do.

                [–]judgeholden72 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Is there a strong point in fixing it?

                I may argue "yes." I do not see more moderate aGGers sticking around here, because this place has attracted the lunatic fringe pGGers in the past day or two. People will not stick around while everyone is being called a "cuck" or a "beta." The people using those terms are not worth discussing with.

                So you'll just end up with the aGGers looking to kill time and fuck around. Fantastic.

                Maybe /agg can then be a home for people looking to discuss things but not have people saying "feminism is clearly for beta cucks that want their girlfriend to peg them" with a straight face.

                [–]DaylightDarklePossesses the Element of Vidya 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Better than "white people don't get to have an opinion, and they all think the same somehow"

                [–]erimanPro-GG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                As long as there is instability, there will be openings for extremism. As long as there is a perception of bias, there will be a feeling of oppression. /r/agg has achieved a precarious balance in the past in terms of bias, and been relatively stable during those same periods.

                [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

                [removed]

                  [–]DMXONLIKETENVIAGRAS 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  lets not pretend there isnt a big reason in the form of a certain mod why people gave up on that sub

                  [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 3ポイント4ポイント  (92子コメント)

                  Because y'all still haven't fixed the mod team over there:

                  • Mod team has Ghazi mods

                  • No pro-GG mods

                  • Head mod isn't active at all

                  • Mod environment is toxic as fuck according to everyone who has been forced out

                  Why would we want to merge with such an obviously dead-end sub?

                  [–]judgeholden72 5ポイント6ポイント  (39子コメント)

                  Mod team has Ghazi mods

                  I would have killed for /u/thehat2 to have joined so we had a KiA mod. It never worked out. None of the other KiA mods, some of whom I like, ever came over to post.

                  No pro-GG mods

                  Yup, we lost Unc, and we needed another. It's a problem.

                  Head mod isn't active at all

                  Sure he is. Mud posts, and mods, a ton. Here? Bashfluff has made 1 post in the past 24 hours, other than that she hasn't been here in over 5 days.

                  Mod environment is toxic as fuck according to everyone who has been forced out

                  I mean, those mods were part of why it was toxic. I imagine if you ask /u/youchoob or /u/unconfidence, they'd say it wasn't toxic prior. The problem was always /u/hokesone and /u/ScarletIt. Those two cannot play well together. We can argue night and day over which should be kept and whether decisions are good or bad, but the bottom line is that it was anything but toxic unless the two of them were both around

                  [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 3ポイント4ポイント  (15子コメント)

                  None of the other KiA mods, some of whom I like, ever came over to post.

                  Perhaps because they all realized that they would have had a near-impossible time acting (or at least being seen to be acting) impartially.

                  It's a problem.

                  It's been a problem for weeks now, you aren't moving to fix it in any visible way.

                  Mud posts, and mods, a ton.

                  Mud straight up admits to not being active enough.

                  those mods were part of why it was toxic

                  So you get rid of all the mods involved, not just the pro ones. Do you honestly not see how one-sided AGG has been since Meow left? I don't even like Meow, but at least some semblance of neutrality was kept. Bash I also don't see eye-to-eye on much, but Bash is at the very least open to debate and discussion.

                  You mods who stood-by and did nothing as hokes burned AGG to the ground are complicit in the destruction of that sub - by saying and doing nothing, you caused this situation.

                  [–]mudbunny 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  Mud straight up admits to not being active enough[1] .

                  Just popping in here.

                  Context is important.

                  If you actually read what I wrote, you will see that I wasn't active enough in trying to defuse the problems between Hokes, Bash and Scarlet. Not for moderation and trying to rework rules.

                  [–]erimanPro-GG -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  If you consider yourself active, why haven't you addressed the current state of moderator inequality? As I understand it's been steadily worsening for quite a while and now all semblance of balance in moderators diversity is completely gone.

                  [–]mudbunny 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  There are a couple of things that you (general, not specifically talking about you) need to take into consideration when expanding/adding to a mod team.

                  1. How well will the mods you add fit into the culture of the mod team. For example, I am very active in our Slack chat, as are a couple most of the other mods. For someone who is more quiet and maybe not as comfortable opening their yap and letting fly in mod chat, they may not fit in well.

                  2. Are you adding to the mod team because you need to add to the mod team (overwork, etc) or because you want to add to the mod team.

                  3. Doing it in a hurry, or because you feel pressured is always a bad idea.

                  We are looking, but, I would have to say that probably between 95-99% of the mod actions that we take have nothing to do with whether the post is pro- or anti-GG, and everything to do with "is saying 'XXX' a Rule 1 violation, given the context of the thread".

                  [–]erimanPro-GG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  The main issues as I see it is that there is systemic bias working into the system as to what should be rules in the first place.

                  You yourself fall prey to it, as you did during that last major post where you said you were listening and engaging with people in Ghazi whose aim (as stated) was to shut down that subreddit. You need a counterbalance to shield yourself against those views, other moderators who believe the subreddit does have a purpose, that it exists for a reason and that reason is wholly a benign one.

                  Delaying only exascerbates that and other problems. At this point, we can't be certain there is a single one of the moderators who actually sees that original purpose for the subreddit.

                  Acting in a hurry can have negative long term repercussions, but so can delay and indecisiveness. Almost as important as making good decisions as a leader you must be seen to be acting as a leader.

                  [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

                  [removed]

                    [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Rule 4.

                    [–]judgeholden72 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    Perhaps because they all realized that they would have had a near-impossible time acting (or at least being seen to be acting) impartially.

                    And you think Teuthex and Bitterone are 100% impartial in how they act? It's impossible.

                    What you need is people that are mostly impartial and can balance. I don't think either of those two are nearly as impartial in modding as they are in posting. I'd say it's a small bit. Tolerable and understandable.

                    "Impartial mod" is like "objective review." Someone will always have their triggers or the people that get under their skin. You see it here. You'll see it more over time, too, as they keep dealing with the same shit day in and day out.

                    It's been a problem for weeks now, you aren't moving to fix it in any visible way.

                    We didn't want to do it during all the mod drama. And now?

                    Mud straight up admits to not being active enough[1] .

                    And yet he's in probably the top 5% of posting activity and was one of the most active for pruning topics.

                    So you get rid of all the mods involved, not just the pro ones.

                    We didn't get rid of the pro ones. We never fired a mod.

                    Do you honestly not see how one-sided AGG has been since Meow left?

                    No more one-sided than this place is now. Do you honestly not see how your perception is warped by your stance?

                    [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                    And you think Teuthex and Bitterone are 100% impartial in how they act?

                    Nope, but they don't mod the main pro/anti sub.

                    We didn't want to do it during all the mod drama. And now?

                    You didn't want to do anything. And now you still haven't done shit!

                    And yet he's in probably the top 5% of posting activity and was one of the most active for pruning topics.

                    On a sub that has been abandoned.

                    We never fired a mod.

                    I never said "fired". Forcing the pro-GG mods to leave is what y'all did.

                    No more one-sided than this place is now.

                    LOL You've been bashing the mods for days now, and you're not banned. That alone is proof that the moderation is much better here.

                    [–]judgeholden72 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    Nope, but they don't mod the main pro/anti sub.

                    So what? Why can't people do double duty?

                    You didn't want to do anything. And now you still haven't done shit!

                    And you know we didn't want to do anything... how? /u/Bashfluff has pointed out how eager I was to get a KiA mod. If I didn't want any hard pros on the mod team, why would I have wanted that? If I didn't want the perception of balance, why would I have wanted that?

                    On a sub that has been abandoned.

                    I meant prior. But maybe you're figuring out why there's no huge rush to replace any mods at the moment.

                    Forcing the pro-GG mods to leave is what y'all did.

                    No one forced anyone out. People decided to leave. Again, ask /u/ScarletIT or /u/Bashfluff whether they feel it was their decision to leave. They'll say yes, yes it was. Their choice. The other option was to force someone out, most likely.

                    You've been bashing the mods for days now, and you're not banned.

                    Jeez, really? All my posts about the mods end with "that's understandable" or "I think they're doing a good job" or "the antis are complaining, and I think they're about as wrong here as the pros were there." I'm questioning Rule 4, but mostly either laughing about how there's next to no transparency promised (and, given that I do not think an enormous amount of transparency is conducive to being able to mod, I'm not criticizing the level of transparency), and criticizing the hypocrisy of all the pros saying "now this is impartial and balanced!" /u/Teuthex, do you feel I'm "bashing" you?

                    If this is "bashing," now I get why your feelings have been so hurt by so much soft criticism about "gamers."

                    [–]Teuthex[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    Hey, honest opinion. Do you think hiring a KiA mod would be a good plan here? We have one willing, but with perception of bias being what it is, I think it might be a bad plan.

                    [–]judgeholden72 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Not at this point.

                    I wanted it to head off criticism and give a perception of neutrality. We had a Ghazi mod, which hurt that perception, and were perceived as being too anti in general. A KiA mod would have done a lot to help that situation for current users and helped bring over new KiA posters.

                    Here, I don't think the timing is right. Unless a Ghazi mod also comes over. That would be ideal, but not an easy task.

                    [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Figured!

                    It was AntithesisD, though, and I really like him, so I'm just a little saddened by it.

                    [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

                    [removed]

                      [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Rule 1.

                      [–]Strich-9 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      It's seriously funny though. You have one of the most biased mod teams ever and you're considering modding a KiA mod. That's just hilarious.

                      [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Yup, we lost Unc, and we needed another. It's a problem.

                      My offer is still extended.

                      [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

                      The problem was hokes didn't want to treat pGGers as human but instead as slime they scraped off the bottom of their shoe. While Scar actually had empathy FTFY. I can link a lot of posts backing this up btw this is not unfounded.

                      [–]theonewhowillbe 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Mod environment is toxic as fuck according to everyone who has been forced out

                      It was toxic because they made it toxic by getting into petty arguments all the time.

                      [–]combo5lyfC-C-C-Combo Breaker! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Objection: even for the people not getting into petty arguments, it was toxic enough to be tedious to read.

                      [–]murderouskitteh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Anythign like that would simply destroy anything remotely resembling a GG debate sub on reddit for good by breaking any trust left.

                      Tis best to let the AGG salt flow, I need me ham properly cured.

                      [–]OneJobToRuleThemAllIt's the biblical pronunciation of Job, like the name. -1ポイント0ポイント  (48子コメント)

                      Because you want a middle ground? The mod team here isn't entirely working out either, which is evidenced by this post and all the complaints about rule 4 in general, and rule 1 and 2 being applied unevenly. You don't have to give control to Hokes to merge subs, you know...

                      [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 0ポイント1ポイント  (37子コメント)

                      This is the middle-ground; I see mods removing posts from both sides, up/down votes are much better balanced (he says while his root post sits at -1), I think netscape should cool it with submissions for a bit (but that's not actually against the rules as it stands). Rule 4 could probably do with some work, but it works to keep the discussion to the topics. We tried anti-GG's definition of 'neutral' on AGG, now we're actually having neutrality.

                      Heck I've still got issues with the mods here, but I won't air the dirty laundry in public. It's not explicitly related to how they handle GG moderation, it's more of a tangent topic.

                      Almost every person in this thread complaining about moderation is doing so because they refuse to at least try to discuss things calmly, then try to bait the mods into attacking them.

                      [–]judgeholden72 2ポイント3ポイント  (20子コメント)

                      This is the middle-ground;

                      Yes, and every anti said that on /agg.

                      You're not seeing parallels here? The antis here do not feel this sub is balanced and neutral. And they feel that some of the worst pGGers coming back and throwing around all their "cucks" and their other horrible things is proof that this place is too safe for bad behavior.

                      Again, this is less pointing to bad modding and more pointing to seeing things from where you stand. Though, man, a few people permabanned there have shown up here and it'll be curious to see what happens. Permabans were hard to get there...

                      [–]roguedoodles 4ポイント5ポイント  (12子コメント)

                      Almost every person in this thread complaining about moderation is doing so because they refuse to at least try to discuss things calmly, then try to bait the mods into attacking them.

                      I was having a very calm discussion with another user here, got random snark from a different pro-GG person. The comment was reported for two rule violations, but Bitter decided it should stay.

                      Another mod later agreed the comment violated rule 1 in mod mail, but only after I pressed multiple times for an explanation. They kept repeating that rule 4 was not enforceable, but ignored my questions about rule number 1.

                      Last I checked the comment wasn't removed, even after the mod agreed about the rule violation. When I asked Bitter for an explanation, they never did give one beyond, "I don't know, he thought it."

                      Not exactly what I would call a middle-ground. Has similar issues to AGG, just heavily skewed in GG's favor.

                      [–]BlockPuppetDefinitely not made of Lego 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      Is this the post you're referring to? I don't think it adds to the discussion at all. Snark/sarcasm are notoriously hard to determine in text-only format.

                      Not that it'll help, but I personally think you're one of the better anti-GG posters tbh. You very rarely lose your cool. I think if you put forward more statements and less questions you'd be much better received (to some it can seem like you're deflecting answering anything).

                      [–]roguedoodles 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Yes.

                      Not that it'll help, but I personally think you're one of the better anti-GG posters tbh.

                      It doesn't really help regarding the issue of subs being heavily biased (including AGG), but thank you. I appreciate the compliment.

                      I think if you put forward more statements and less questions you'd be much better received (to some it can seem like you're deflecting answering anything).

                      I feel like I make statements as much as I ask questions. I also feel like there are a lot of people posting in bad faith and so it's very important to clarify things for the sake of discussion.

                      [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

                      [removed]

                        [–]Bitter_one13Sometimes I get worried that appeals CAN'T be filed in modmail[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        Whilst I agree, too much Rule 2.

                        [–]the_8th_guest 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        More bias from the mods! (lol)

                        How about this: someone who fails at a job for reasons entirely of their own doing is not a good candidate for a very similar job.

                        [–]Arimer 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        If no one else steps up I'll do it. Used to be head mod of the age of conan forums so I have some experience dealing with this junk.

                        [–]Teuthex[S,M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        You appear to be shadowbanned.

                        [–]Arimer 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Thanks, according to reddit I had rolled over to an IP that was previously flagged as spam so It autobanned me. Should be taken care of now.

                        [–]Tymaret -3ポイント-2ポイント  (48子コメント)

                        I would nominate /u/wildmoodswing and /u/Strich-9.

                        Oh and /u/StolenHodor2

                        [–]Dashing_SnowPro-GG 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        fuck no

                        [–]ShodenShowed 'em! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Approving this post, "fuck no" might be a uncivil but only barely so. Directed "fuck you" "fuck off" "fuck them" might cause moderation, but not emphatic "no"s

                        [–]Strich-9 -1ポイント0ポイント  (36子コメント)

                        Thanks! But I don't think they're looking for hard antis, only moderates. Hard pro-GGers are the main mods though

                        [–]SovereignLoverPro-GG 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        When your claim to fame is being insufferable on /r/AGG, you're probably not going to be modded on a sub made in protest of AGG's environment.

                        [–]Teuthex[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

                        Thanks! But I don't think they're looking for hard antis, only moderates.

                        Incorrect.

                        Hard pro-GGers are the main mods though

                        Correct, unfortunate, we're working on it.

                        [–]Tymaret 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

                        True enough I guess, shame, be nice to have someone that mods as hard for the otherside as the Pro's do.

                        [–]Teuthex[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (22子コメント)

                        If you don't think Shoden is a hard anti, I'm really not sure what to tell you.

                        Bitter and I both basically went 'Okay, who do we hate most but still sort of trust to be honest.'

                        I extended an offer to ChimpanzeeMindset as well, but he turned it down.

                        [–]Tymaret 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        If you don't think Shoden is a hard anti, I'm really not sure what to tell you.

                        You're going to say he's as hard an anti as Strich or Hodor are?

                        General thoughts on the candidates I put forward?

                        [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I don't think it would be a good idea for me to express that sentiment in public. Shoot me a PM if you sincerely want to know.

                        [–]TaxTime2015Hypocrisy is boring 0ポイント1ポイント  (19子コメント)

                        If you don't think Shoden is a hard anti, I'm really not sure what to tell you.

                        And he was overruled by the gators. And as I explained I never want to go to modmail. I don't want drama.

                        [–]Teuthex[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

                        No, he wasn't 'overruled'. We had a discussion about it. I don't overrule Shoden, and usually defer to his opinion.