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[worldnews]"We're being taught to hate downwards" (np.reddit.com)

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[–]I-am-redditor 211ポイント212ポイント  (77子コメント)

I read this in the original thread. While the statement is true it's not exclusively true. We are taught to hat upwards as well. Look at all the unhappiness with government and corporations.

Basically everyone is telling us to hate the other end. The top 1% is telling us that the bottom 10% are the problem. The lower 99% is telling us that the government and the 1% are the problem.

Also, look at Europe. Migrants are pouring in and government is telling the citizens to welcome them. No hate mongering there.

We are just sitting in the middle, wondering what to believe.

[–]rixuraxu 82ポイント83ポイント  (9子コメント)

I assumed most people were like me, and had enough hate for everyone. Including OP.

[–]VileFrog 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

don't worry buddy, I hate you.

[–]rixuraxu 25ポイント26ポイント  (7子コメント)

The feeling is mutual, I hate me too.

[–]SoDamnToxic 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have no strong feelings one way or the other.

[–]VileFrog 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's cold man, that's cold.

[–]EgoIdeal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

All I know is my gut says maybe.

[–]cynoclast 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nobody can hate me like I can.

[–]AJB115 133ポイント134ポイント  (25子コメント)

Also, look at Europe. Migrants are pouring in and government is telling the citizens to welcome them. No hate mongering there.

Are you.. are you kidding? The growing racism in Europe is a big problem.

[–]Pascalwb 27ポイント28ポイント  (19子コメント)

Look in the media it's mostly pro-migrant. Not so much among people.

[–]BobTheJoeBob 74ポイント75ポイント  (14子コメント)

Look in the media it's mostly pro-migrant.

I live in the UK, and this is completely untrue. While I wouldn't say the media is completely anti-migrant, it is in no way pro-migrant.

[–]Aguy89 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Perhaps in private owned media, but the bbc seems to be pretty pro-refugee, which is the main one i look at.

[–]BobTheJoeBob 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I've seen, the BBC seems to be the most neutral. But I don't watch BBC that much.

[–]miasmic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The BBC (or TV news in general) isn't typically where people go except to find out the facts in the UK.

Like how we read Reddit comments, other people read newspapers to see what other people think about stuff and what they should think - and it's just page after page of immigrant hate.

[–]HarryBlessKnapp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's been pro refugee? Any particular articles?

[–]LordMondando 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Guardian BBC, Independent vs. Mail, Sun and Express.

given the overwhelming majority of people get their news from the BBC website. The whole 'Media against it mostly' is a bit of a meme.

[–]BobTheJoeBob 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

With the Guardian and Independent I'd agree with you, but the BBC in my view has been mostly neutral.

[–]LordMondando 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes but its hardly been negative of it. I mean you want to argue there are tabloids that are negative of the whole thing sure. But its really hard to present the BBC as being negative.

Only difference compared to the former two is its prevented from making overtly political statements espeically about goverment policy. But its been running plenty of stories from the side of various refugee's and migrants on the website. If it were really neutral you'd be expecting them to not paint opposition to it as largely racist.

[–]BobTheJoeBob 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Neutral implies there's balance of positive and negative, which I think it does.

If it were really neutral you'd be expecting them to not paint opposition to it as largely racist.

Explain?

[–]shawnsullivan93 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is UK media largely owned by Murdoch?

[–]BobTheJoeBob 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, he owns Sky, the sun and the times, all of which are pretty prominent.

[–]shawnsullivan93 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Makes sense.

Media owned by Murdoch in Australia seems to have a fairly conservative tone and bias towards anti immigration. It's not as bad as it was a few years ago, but you can pick out a Murdoch headline in the newsstand.

[–]sample_material -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe our view of the media is highly effected by the media we consume, and we have no real way of knowing what "the media" as a whole is saying.

[–]cynoclast -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The hell it is. Fox is calling them "swarms of immigrants".

Murdoch and Ailes are at the top of the pyramid scheme telling everyone to hate downwards more loudly than anyone else.

[–]SERGEANTMCBUTTMONKEY -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Source?

[–]N8CCRG -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just try wondering over to /r/europe or even /r/worldnews. You'll see all the racism you're missing.

[–]im-a-new 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

And I don't know which government they're referring to. Sweden? Sure, that's true. Hungary, not so much.

[–]BrQQQ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just the some kind of persecution complex that many people seem to have. They have a view they feel strongly about and they act like expressing this will end up with them getting lynched. They use that constantly in their points.

In reality, it's about very normal and heavily debated discussions (like the refugee crisis), where there is absolutely no one-sided view in society. But being dramatic and claiming big entities don't want you to believe something is motivation for people.

[–]I-am-redditor -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Absolutely. But government in Germany and France is pro refugees. Not trying to create downward hate.

[–]SheCutOffHerToe 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

There is an immense, ubiquitous hate for wealthy people.

It's not that anyone is being taught to "hate downward", just to fight amongst yourselves instead of unifying for mutual gain. Who benefits?

[–]BrQQQ 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's amazing the post got best of'd. "Hating downwards"... fucking seriously? If there is one group of people that are very widely hated (even outside Reddit), it's rich people.

The "hating downward" is just people acting like they're deep and clever, as if they just identified the problem that's keeping us all down. That's not a new observation.

People just hate other people who think differently about things. It could be anything from rich people to immigrants.

[–]fourbet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I have no idea how people instantly buy and love this either.

If I had to try and order the top 3 macro-groups getting hated on the internet these days it would probably be:

1) Government 2) "1%ers" 3) Cops 4) Israel 5) everything else.

It's probably a matter of people only paying attention to the topics they are interested in rather than really taking a broad view. When they see people criticizing the rich or the government they don't view it as "hate" because they agree.

[–]FutureBreedMachine66 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Am I the only one here who doesn't understand what "downwards" here means? :(

[–]JupeJupeSound 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wealthy people are so much more rare these days than 'rich' people. McMansions live and die in the blink of an eye. I hear frequently from the truly wealthy that 'there is always more room at the top' because it's frankly lonely being stigmatized by everyone. The philosophy of Agency is near unheard of these days.

[–]SheCutOffHerToe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very true. The common conception of a millionaire is very inaccurate, which I think speaks to the same issue. Much easier to hate a vague concept than the friendly guy next door who has wisely saved and invested his money instead of upgrading every detail of his life at every opportunity.

[–]natophonic2 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, not a night goes by in my town that you don't see the streets lit up by burning effigies of Sergey Brin, Warren Buffet, and Elon Musk.

[–]Mournhold 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

To me, this seems related to our common desire to assign blame onto others. The behavior can manifest in different ways and assign blame to different targets, but the root cause is similar.

With that said and as others in the original tread mentioned, I think it is important to note how often there is a discrepancy in the severity of who is to blame. For example, when you look at the type of money and influence involved in corporate tax loopholes, military spending, government contracts and lobbying programs, many other issues and concepts such as "welfare queens" and immigration reform can seem very insignificant in comparison. The potential and scope of abuse and negative consequences is much, much higher when the interests of the wealthiest and most powerful are involved.

In spite of this large difference in scope, some would argue that the smaller scale issues still get brought up too frequently in many political discussions, often when the larger issues are being discussed. I do not know for certain how often this type of deflection happens among the political discourse in the developed world, but I have seen happen on several occasions.

With this discrepancy so apparent to a good number of people, I don't find it too surprising that some would then consider this type of socioeconomic misdirection to be intentionally supported by those in power.

[–]Flavahbeast 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

While the statement is true it's not exclusively true. We are taught to hat upwards as well.

Well yeah, where else am I supposed to hat?

[–]DrBasedGod 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, and here I am, stuck in the middle with you"

[–]No_Fence 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

Europe has so, so much hate for immigrants. There's at least one party in every country that spews some serious anti-immigrant rhetoric to, you guessed it, get votes.

I don't think it's accurate to put upwards and downwards hate equal to each other. There is some upwards hate, yes, but it's much more justified than the downwards hate. Take the 2008 crash; five million people lost their homes, three million people lost their jobs, and about ~5000 committed suicide. Almost all of the people affected were poor. Yet, who caused it? Investors, bankers, and rampant greed. Barely any punishment was doled out, and the same CEOs still rule Wall Street.

The higher up the economic ladder you get the less accountability there is, and the poor notice it. The rich also enjoy lives of excess, but rarely fight for more equality, instead preferring to fight any tax hike with massive lobbying power and influence. They use dividing issues like abortion and racism to turn poor people on each other. They have control of the governing system - most Senators are millionaires. They have huge wealth at the cost of others; income inequality is worse in the US than it has been since right before the Great Depression.

The difference between hating the rich and the poor is that the poor are continually oppressed, while the rich have the power to change things but choose not to. If a slave hates his master and the master hates his slave, are they equally important hatreds?

[–]sarcasticorange 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

There is some upwards hate, yes, but it's much more justified than the downwards hate

Everyone thinks their hate is justified.

[–]No_Fence 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, I'm well off. I think you assuming I'm poor and attacking me for being biased really shows everything it needs to about how unable the rich are to take criticism.

[–]TheBigLen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. There are thousands of people who work on wall street. Many of those are essential to having our financial system function (like keeping our retirement funds going). Except then /u/No_Fence lops them all together and rallies people to hate them.

[–]mcgnms 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Take the 2008 crash; five million people lost their homes, three million people lost their jobs, and about ~5000 committed suicide. Almost all of the people affected were poor. Yet, who caused it? Investors, bankers, and rampant greed. Yet, barely any punishment was doled out, and the same CEOs still rule Wall Street."

Right, so irresponsible borrowing of said loans had nothing to do with it? You are literally objectifying the people you are trying to defend as an irrational/stupid entity by not placing blame on them.

[–]No_Fence 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Please. Irresponsible borrowing will always happen if lenders allow it. There isn't a single society that wouldn't overestimate their own ability to pay back loans. That's literally why we have professionals deciding these things - and those professionals failed miserably at their jobs.

[–]mcgnms 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a horrible argument. First off lenders did not "allow" it and not in the sense where I'm trying to excuse them from responsibility. They were forced and lured into it by a variety of political and economic forces just how you claim borrowers do it because they are lured into it. Secondly, I can say irresponsible activity of lenders will occur in any society if government allows it. By your logic why not blame Government? And taking that logic further I can once again place blame back on the voters because "irresponsible government activity" will happen in any society if voters allow it.

Rather than place blame where blame is due, you're objectifying a group...in fact an entire social/economic class of people as being stupid and thats just excusable because thats the way things are? Do you see my point? Thats pretty offensive.

Thats like saying you can't blame a criminal for doing an "xyz" crime because that criminal is part of a larger group (such as a religious, ethnic, or racial group) and his/her actions are just "what they do".

Are we going to start excusing cops for overstepping their bounds because "thats just what cops do" and instead blame somebody else? Are we going to excuse rapists and blame woman for it? Because rapists are apparently men and "thats just what they do" if society doesn't strictly enforce laws preventing it?

Obviously not. The borrowers who took irresponsible loans messed up. Thats their mistake at least as much as anyone else's.

[–]proquo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Irresponsible borrowing happened due in part to government programs meant to allow people to get loans the banks normally wouldn't lend to. They couldn't pay those loans back and look what happened. I work for a bank that is very conservative about lending because they simply make more money when people can pay back their loans.

[–]Wire_Saint -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

and bringing more migrants into europe causes wages to fall and social welfare systems to be strained, which then causes the working class to get poorer

he migrants are not your friends and neither are the companies that employ them

[–]caffpanda 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well I'd definitely hat upwards. I mean, wearing a hat anywhere else would just be awkward.

[–]Anosognosia 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, I've Heard ot this thing called "asshat" and it seems very popular in online gaming.

[–]Chapped_Assets -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

wearing a hat anywhere else would just be awkward upward

FTFY

[–]merton1111 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You confuse the 1% with the government.

[–]I-am-redditor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see government as part of the 1%. That's 3 million people and therefore definitely includes senators and the like.

[–]GDNerd -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought you were supposed to hat downwards so it stayed on your head.

[–]DiscoPopStar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That last paragraph describes it so well for me. Thank you for articulating it so clearly.

[–]Aurarus 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The top 1% is telling us that the bottom 10% are the problem.

Any evidence of this happening in any way?

[–]I-am-redditor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, it was the sentiment of the "we're taught to hate downward" idea. Think Trump and Mexicans. Think social aid and the needy. Think food stamps and the unemployed.

[–]InfiniteYeast 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I read this in the original thread.

The rare /r/bestof hipster.

[–]I-am-redditor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I lost my bestof virginity today.

[–]jalalipop 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Also, look at Europe. Migrants are pouring in and government is telling the citizens to welcome them. No hate mongering there.

We are looking at Europe. The original thread was about the UK. Didn't you say you read the original thread? Also that's just plain false, the US as an institution, ignoring political rhetoric, is much more welcoming to refugees and immigrants. The xenophobic and descent-oriented definition of membership in European countries is well-documented.

However I agree that the hate is directed in every direction. Hating on the rich is pervasive in our generation, arguably moreso than hating on the poor.

[–]I-am-redditor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wasn't saying the US isn't welcoming. I was just using (continental) Europe as an example because it's quite prominent in the news nowadays.

[–]Frankeh 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Labour supporters are pretty much bred to hate the rich and the Tories. It's amazing how often politics is an inherited trait.

[–]spacemoses 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meanwhile everyone seems to hate the idea of the middle class, suburban, white picket fence life as well. It seems like every class hates every other class.

[–]Velocister -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please. Plenty of people hate the migrants as they should. They are just sedated to like their servitude.

[–]I-am-redditor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, but government is not creating downward hate.

[–]enezukal -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree, maybe on reddit that's true, but most of the people out there think that if's someone rich, he must have earned it.

It's much easier to hate those around us we can see - immigrants, unemployed people, addicts - and point a finger at them and say that those people are responsible for our problems, not ourselves.

The mostly faceless rich people who live in exclusive gated communities, take the helicopter to work each day, or spend half a year at their yacht in the Caribbean, are hard to hate because we can't see them and thus can't even imagine the kind of wealth they have and what they did to get it. And I'm not talking about the rap artists you've seen on MTV Cribs, because they are small fries compared to the people who are really obscenely rich and mostly prefer to stay out of publicity.

[–]Waldo_where_am_I -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you're looking for who to blame follow the money there you will find the power the more the money the more the power. Power is almost exclusively used against the powerless.