3156
3157

Society in 2015 be like (i.imgur.com)

CopyRasta が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]WearyTunes 248ポイント249ポイント  (188子コメント)

Pretty sure it's borrowed from AAVE.

Why it is making you mad is beyond me though.

Edit: Since a lot of you guys seem to have some anti-science attitudes when it comes to language, here are the ten axioms of Socio-Linguistics for you to reference before you comment:

  1. Language is speech, or sign; writing is a secondary technology.

  2. Children are biologically designed to become multilingual...

  3. ..But acquiring literacy is best done in one’s mother tongue.

  4. All natural languages are equivalent in their potential value – moral, aesthetic & social – and in their expressive capacity.

  5. Language is a primary means for engaging the world, developing & expressing (both individual and group) identity.

  6. Educational institutions use arbitrary language standards as gate-keeping devices to reproduce the status quo.

  7. Standard languages and writing-based norms historically have privileged elite minorities, and continue to do so, necessarily.

  8. Bias towards/against a language or dialect stands in for bias towards/against its speakers.

  9. Ethnicity and language have complex and dynamic relations.

  10. Language planning (=language interference) and legislation, even by expert practitioners, frequently fails or backfires.

[–]johndoe555 43ポイント44ポイント  (0子コメント)

Used in Vine video titles, more specifically.

[–]CherrySlurpee 108ポイント109ポイント  (46子コメント)

Eh, I still think it's stupid. Getting mad over it is a little much, though, I agree with you there.

[–]usurious 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

uWearyTunes' problem is that they had no reason to bring up AAVE other than implying racism. OP didn't say anything but he didn't like the phrase "be like". Which they are perfectly okay to do. No one is required to like all parts of a language. The entire idea behind AAVE is that language is fluid and changes. To act like we have to like all vernacular trends taken on by any racial break up or regional divide is ridiculous.

[–]TheJosh90 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol i was never angry! its the internet and a neutral approach is usually futile, gotta go with the extremes sometimes ;)

[–]DiethylamideProphet 21ポイント22ポイント  (37子コメント)

Aave is Finnish and means "ghost".

[–]sluttyUSB 3ポイント4ポイント  (34子コメント)

It also stands for African American Vernacular English and is a recognized dialect of English. It's history/origin is very interesting. It seems as though awareness of this status is very new though, because I only know of it via an edgy HS history teacher. It's not really part of any regular coursework until maybe college? The people above who are being condescending towards those who don't know of it are very rude. Belittling or shaming the ignorant is detrimental to your goal of spreading awareness. And let's be honest, they probably are ignorant rather than racist. If you didn't know that AAVE was a dialect, it would just sound like improper english.

[–]Smaskifa 15ポイント16ポイント  (29子コメント)

I had never heard of AAVE until today. Frankly, yes, I think it sounds uneducated to talk that way.

[–]waldron76 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

It's a dialect. Speaking it makes the speaker no less educated than speaking in a Yorkshire accent, or a Cockney accent, or a Boston accent, or whatever.

[–]Murphenstien 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

If it wouldn't get you an A on an English paper, it's not correct English. IMO

[–]rathat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is however correct AAVE. The class isn't teaching AAVE.

[–]SQRT2_as_a_fraction 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

Russian wouldn't get you an A on an English paper either. Doesn't make Russian wrong; it's just a different language. Same for AAVE: it's not wrong, it's just different, and it'd make no sense to judge it based on a language variety that just doesn't apply.

[–]Murphenstien -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

So wait... AAVE isn't a form of English?

[–]SQRT2_as_a_fraction 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's a speech variety closely related to your variety English. Whether you want to call it English or not is more a matter of sociopolitics than of empirical truth. It's not like there's such a thing as "English" floating around out there; "English" is what we call some closely related linguistic codes. In any case socio-politics is irrelevant for the linguistic question at hands.

The fact is: it is a different speech variety, and how far it is from your English compared to Russian is a matter of degree, not of kind. What I'm saying is it makes no sense to judge a speech variety by how much it coforms to another.

[–]kej9311 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's a form of English, it's essentially slang. While you wouldn't get an A for using slang in a paper, it's still correct in its own right similar to russian in that previous example.

Simply put, AAVE and other slants are not meant to be proper English so to judge it as such doesn't make much.

[–]Murphenstien -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right, which is all I said; It's not proper English.

[–]SQRT2_as_a_fraction 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

No, AAVE is not slang. Slang is just vocabulary. A word can be slang. AAVE is a whole linguistic variety, and it has entire grammatical rules that don't exist in Standard English, and different functions words. It is an actual linguistic variety.

[–]Faemn -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What does a dialect have anything to do with accents?

[–]ratherbealurker -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I cannot believe I am hearing all of this.

If I go down south and hear someone say finna or something similar then ok, dialect.

When I am in the north east and someone on the street "be like" then no, you're just uneducated.

If you want to put lipstick on a pig, go ahead. I'd never hire anyone using this "dialect".

[–]RightSaidKevin 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ironically it's because you're uneducated!

[–]Tony-Pajamas 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

Ah, gotta love that thinly veiled racism. You stay classy Reddit

[–]Smaskifa -4ポイント-3ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's racist to judge English speaking people as uneducated if they don't know how to form sentences properly in English?

[–]saucysaw 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

properly

[–]Vorpal_Bunny 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Bias towards/against a language or dialect stands in for bias towards/against its speakers.

[–]Smaskifa 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

I judge white people who speak like that as uneducated, too, though.

[–]Vorpal_Bunny 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You might judge everyone who uses AAVE, but if you unpack WHY it provokes this response it has its roots in racism and classism. Not with its effectiveness for communication, because one of the other major laws of Socio-Linguistics is, "All natural languages are equivalent in their potential value – moral, aesthetic & social – and in their expressive capacity."

ANY natural language (dialects fall under this category) is equally capable of expressing any idea. However, this particular one has its roots with poor black people. The roots of the prejudicce against this manner of speaking are racist because you're equating "The way black people talk" with "Uneducated."

[–]Smaskifa -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting, and thank you for remaining civil, unlike some other commenters. I agree that when people speak like OP, it does convey meaning fairly well, but it still sounds uneducated to me, no matter who is speaking that way. I went to public school in the US and learned the correct way to use the language. To me, if someone uses the language incorrectly (i.e., not using grammar rules I learned in school), it's due to a lack of education. It doesn't matter whether the speaker is black or white. Obviously if they are from a foreign country and English is not their first language, I would not judge their education based on their English speaking skills.

[–]Tony-Pajamas -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh ok my apologies then. You're not racist, just an elitist asshole then.

[–]TheMilkmeister 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We spent a good month and a half on it in my 11th grade English class. She called it "ebonics" though. I don't know how standard that curriculum is/was, but I think the other teachers covered it too.

[–]Wiggsta -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

This whole sub-thread is pretty cringey right now... please just give it a break, AAVE people.

[–]cheesyqueso -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was a popular video that got onto reddit explaining the rules a month ago by Xidnaf on youtube. I'm surprised by your downvotes.

Edit: https://youtu.be/pkzVOXKXfQk

[–]Sms_Boy -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is improper, Queeny would not be pleased.

[–]deyesed 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

African-American Vernacular English

[–]iLurk_4ever -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, it means spook? Doot doot

[–]moonshoeslol 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

Certain sayings or sentence structure can irk people. For example "What's the dillio" was common in the 90s but sounds cringey now. Personally, I don't like how we're abreviating "as fuck" now. It's 6 letters and only two syllables just type the damn word out.

[–]godofallcows 29ポイント30ポイント  (3子コメント)

Dealio. I thought I missed out on a dildo phrase in my childhood for a second there.

[–]TheLolmighty 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's the dildo with that?!

[–]mastertatto 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

No he's talking about dillio pickles

[–]godofallcows 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's the dill-dittily-dildio?

[–]thevoid 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

The one that never fails to get me worked up is how expressing simple distaste is "hate". As in "why all the hate?"

I also find it irritating that things can't just be hated now, they must be hated on.

[–]AKC-Colourization -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or just talk properly.

[–]Matterplay 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

Or just Ebonics.

[–]Vicepresidentjp 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the same thing, more or less

[–]bjt23 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

AAVE discussion? On a reddit default? Cue the drama!

[–]WearyTunes -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm surprised it hasn't gotten linked somewhere yet.

[–]dontsaymuch -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It probably makes the previous poster mad because it is racial and cultural appropriation, most of the time.

[–]CheckeredFedora -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

For sure. Doesn't bother me as long as I can still understand a person. I'm sure I've got bothersome speech patterns and habits.

[–]Masterreefer420 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's pretty easy to get annoyed over small things on the internet. Personally, anytime I see someone make the stupid fucking joke about someone dying/living depending on their shoes staying on or not, I go into a murderous rampage.

[–]mackinoncougars -5ポイント-4ポイント  (39子コメント)

Probably because of the improper grammar. No dat any1 axe me doe.

[–]Murray85 -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

As implied, AAVE is a recognized dialect by the linguistic community. Which shows you don't know what the fuck you're taking about.

[–]mackinoncougars -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's also not standardized. It's not taught in schools, which is standardized, there for it's not the proper. Which shows you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. (Which you seemed to not write in AAVE, but in proper English...interestingly enough.)

[–]Murray85 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

The US, where I'm from does not have an official language, so there is not standard. I'm also not African American or raised in that culture so I wasn't raised to speak in AAVE. And I definitely never claimed that how I write or speak has any legitimacy.

[–]mackinoncougars -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

America teaches GenAm standard in schools and is a Requirement throughout grade school and for graduating. You're talking out of your ass.

[–]Murray85 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Required by who exactly?

[–]mackinoncougars 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

American educational requirements.

[–]Murray85 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please, show me exactly where the federal government provides guidelines on proper english.

[–]WearyTunes -1ポイント0ポイント  (31子コメント)

It's only "improper grammar" if you are judging it by the rules of GenAm or another dialect.

[–]PM_ME_UR_FENG_SHUI 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's being judged by the rules of English. Double negatives and wrong forms of verbs are not correct, no matter how many people use them.

[–]deafblindmute 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every linguist I have ever read or talked might disagree with you.

[–]atlasMuutaras 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

And yet you never hear people railing against the inaccuracies of a cockney accent.

[–]moonshoeslol 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chav speak however, is literally the worst. It's not a race thing.

[–]spaceaero -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because it's not used all the time on reddit or in vine videos

[–]atlasMuutaras 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because it's not used all the time on reddit

u fookin wut m8?

[–]WearyTunes 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are no specific "rules of English."

Do you think Britain and America teach the exact same dialect in school?

[–]mackinoncougars 0ポイント1ポイント  (23子コメント)

Judging by the teachings of education institutions...

[–]WearyTunes 0ポイント1ポイント  (22子コメント)

Who teach GenAm.

[–]mackinoncougars -1ポイント0ポイント  (21子コメント)

Because it's the proper English, which is why it is standard and taught throughout the nation...

[–]WearyTunes -2ポイント-1ポイント  (20子コメント)

Because it's the proper English

Only by the merit that it is "taught throughout the nation"

If any other dialect had become the prestige dialect you would be right here defending it instead.

[–]mackinoncougars 1ポイント2ポイント  (19子コメント)

Yes, because then it would be PROPER. As I've stated over and over again.

[–]WearyTunes -2ポイント-1ポイント  (18子コメント)

Okay. So we are both at the conclusion that AAVE isn't inherently worse than GenAm. Cool.

[–]mackinoncougars -2ポイント-1ポイント  (17子コメント)

But it isn't PROPER ENGLISH, by any definition, which is what the whole conversation was about. Though if you want to make it about being worse, you can measure effectiveness of language in a very complex fashion and I'm certain that AAVE would fair very poorly to GenAm.

[–]DillDeer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It just sounds stupid

[–]AvocadosAndBanana 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Upvote for your edit. Linguists really should have a louder voice in discussions that touch on sociolinguistics. So often, anti-scientific views prevail. To a linguist, it sounds like how eugenics sounds to a biologist.

[–]Vampire_Deepend -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess TheJosh90 is just racist.

Edit: Guys... It was a joke.

[–]Geolosopher -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why is that necessary? English already has its own syntax that functions just fine. This is an English-speaking website. It's completely unnecessary, and the reason it bothers some of us is because it's either deliberately being "street" or whatever the fuck you want to call it, or it's profound laziness. I don't see either as an acceptable option. The fact that white people utilize proper English syntax doesn't mean that proper English syntax is "white," and a lot of us think it's stupid -- and quite frankly racist -- to avoid the proper use of language just because its proper use is dominated by a specific culture.

[–]WearyTunes -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

English already has its own syntax that functions just fine.

Well, GenAm is missing the habitual tense, which AAVE has.

It's completely unnecessary, and the reason it bothers some of us is because it's either deliberately being "street" or whatever the fuck you want to call it, or it's profound laziness.

Linguists prefer "dialect of english"

The fact that white people utilize proper English syntax doesn't mean that proper English syntax is "white," and a lot of us think it's stupid -- and quite frankly racist -- to avoid the proper use of language just because its proper use is dominated by a specific culture.

Except it is. "Correct English" is based mostly around GenAm which is spoken by a small white population in the northern mid-west.

[–]Geolosopher 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

So is this supposed minority of GenAm speakers also in charge of writing every single dictionary, stylebook, and linguistic text in use today? When teaching our children how to write sentences in elementary school, do we teach them to "be like"? Is they like that, or is they isn't?

[–]WearyTunes -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's kindof just happenstance that GenAm averages out to being very similar to that minority group.

Besides that, yea kinda. "Correct English" was written by the people who spoke it.

[–]RatDisease -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jiggabo talk?

[–]Langston_huge 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey look, you're racist. hilarious.

[–]JSLSL234234 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because it sounds like its coming from someone unwilling to speak standard English.

[–]madeamashup -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

took me a minute.. that's african american vernacular english? lololol

[–]Cessno -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

One post on reddit and everyone seems to start using a phrase like AAVE like its common knowledge

[–]bb999 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's ironic how reddit hates SJWs that get 'triggered' over the most mundane things, and doesn't realize they have the exact same problem.

[–]usurious -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Jesus we don't have to like something bc it has a PC label. I hate comments like this. "Why so insensitive to other cultures, you must be a closet racist". No I really just think it sounds stupid af to say that way sorry you don't agree.

[–]WearyTunes 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sorry, didn't mean to trigger you.

[–]usurious 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't imply people are racists over a vernacular preference and you won't trigger people. The whole argument in favor of AAVE is that language is fluid and changes. To act like we have to like all trends taken on by any racial break up or regional division of language is asinine. Op didn't say shit but he didn't like the phrase "be like" and you threw the AAVE card for no apparent reason that I can see aside from implying racism.

[–]WearyTunes -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Op didn't say shit but he didn't like the phrase "be like" and you threw the AAVE card for no apparent reason that I can see aside from implying racism.

I wasn't implying racism, just saying where it comes from. But again, I'm sorry it made you so upset.

[–]FuckedByFoucault -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't imply people are racists over a vernacular preference

Depending on how they characterize other vernaculars, they may well be perpetuating racist narratives. I'm seeing a lot of that in this very thread.

[–]usurious 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure it can happen. So what characterization could you have drawn from the parent comment of this exchange? I see no reason to bring up AAVE other than to presume the speaker is racist or obliged to like the wording on account of it being AAVE alone, which is nonsense.

[–]Vypur -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

because shit grammar like this makes it to the front page all the time and you sound like a fucking idiot saying it.

[–]wynaut_23 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's not getting mad at it being used in this post, he's getting mad at it used over and over again. I'm also tired of seeing them.

[–]muchdogeisenseinyou -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I love how you've twisted criticism of "be like" into an anti-science position. This is the new age political correctness summed up in one post.

[–]WearyTunes 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sorry, but when it comes to linguistics, I prefer reals before feels.

[–]muchdogeisenseinyou -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you think we should stop teaching grammar since people can make up whatever rules they want?

[–]WearyTunes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, i don't.

Standard languages and writing-based norms historically have privileged elite minorities, and continue to do so, necessarily.

[–]FatBeardedMan -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

AAVE otherwise known as the least sophosticated and respected way of a speaking known to the western world.

[–]posidonius_of_rhodes -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is so pathetic. It's such a cop out. You're basically saying blacks are too stupid to learn and speak proper english so let's just call whatever the abortions of pronunciations and grammar mistakes they manage to slip out a "language".

AAVE doesn't exist. It's PC liberals talking down to blacks and trying to justify their beliefs.

[–]rathat 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's been a separate dialect for hundreds of years.

[–]posidonius_of_rhodes 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have blacks had access to quality education in America for hundreds of years? Have they been able to read books without getting beaten for hundreds of years?

No, they haven't. Before they were speaking various tribal African languages. That's a language. When they came to America (and Europe, or wherever etc.) they never had a chance to properly learn the languages. Hell even now schools in black neighborhoods underperform, despite the amount of money and effort made to bring them up to code.

They didn't invent a new language. They attempt to speak American-style English, I assume you've heard educated blacks speak on Television, or in a book. They speak like professional grammarians.

[–]rathat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

First, it is a distinct dialect It used to be much different, more of a creole of English and West African languages. It developed alongside GenAm and quickly became more and more like GenAm. Now what mostly remains are differences in grammar. These are consistently followed grammar rules which are spoken the same all around the country for hundreds of years. If you want to call those grammar mistakes, then every language and dialect in the world are wrong because that's how they have ALL developed.

You can say that blacks as a demographic generally have less of an education and a higher rate of poverty. But they don't speak AAVE because of their lack of education. The way you speak is determined by your childhood peers, kids you go to school with. Schools teach in general American English and it's spoken as the very large majority of professionalism, media, business, etc. So they change the way they talk depending on the situation, this is called code switching. Any black person who made it passed 2nd grade or ever watched TV/Youtube or other media, should have no problem speaking with a GenAm dialect. It just depends of whether or not they choose to.

So yes, it is a dialect of English, ask any linguist, and no, it's not spoken because of a lack of education.