(cache) DyrusがDyrus' Final AMAについて記入したコメント

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[–]afiqkfizdeq 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 8時間前 (3子コメント)

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you think the damage chart is any indication of skill, you're probably a casual player/lower tier. TSM's play style is entirely around Bjerg. Faker will roam/target properly in team fights. He isn't the focal point. I don't know if you follow any other sports like American Football or Basketball, but this would be like a player shooting 40 shots a game and averaging 25 points per game vs a guy who shoots it 15 times per game and average 18. Or a Quarterback who throws it 50 times per game, gets more yards vs a QB who throws it 30. More damage =/= better player. Now I'm not here to talk about Bjerg vs Faker, but what you're saying is completely off. Faker is more efficient in his playstyle because SKT allows him to. Bjerg has to play a high volume damage style because of the way TSM plays. Again, I'm not arguing who's better, but your point about Bjerg doing more damage is off.

[+]Helixon スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 8時間前 (2子コメント)

Now I'm not arguing that Bjergsen is better or worse than Faker. That is not the discussion here, and that's not a discussion I want to have. I challenged an statement of Bjergsen being "no where near level of Faker", which is simply downright wrong.

"I'm not arguing who's better, but your point about Bjerg doing more damage is off." - The statistics says otherwise so with this sentence you're completely off. Bjerg is doing more damage and I'll remind you that those damage chart is taking into account the gold resources that person has.

"You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. If you think the damage chart is any indication of skill, you're probably a casual player/lower tier" - This is not how you win a discussion but rather forfeit one. If you want to challenge my arguments, you should do so accordingly by referring to evidence or come up with counter arguments.

[–]darkcloud5554 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 6時間前* (1子コメント)

I think what he was trying to say is that Bjergsen has more damage because TSM is more of a one threat team so he has to do the damage because the team plans on Bjergsen carrying. For SKT they dont have to rely on Faker carrying, because Bang and Marin can both step up and do it. Also TSM puts most of their resources into getting Bjergsen ahead so he is in a better position to do more damage. For SKT they have been focusing on Marin a lot more in the group stages so Faker hasnt had the resources that Bjergsen has had. So basically, because of the different ways the teams play it is basically useless to compare damage done. I am not saying damage done is a useless stat, but it isnt the only thing to look at when comparing these two midlaners. I think both of them are spectacular mid laners but this isnt the best way to compare them because of the different ways the teams allocate resources.

EDIT: As i was reading through your other comments and saw your point about how damage scales over time Im pretty sure TSM also had a longer average game time then SKT did so that would skew the results towards Bjergsen.

[–]Helixon -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]gosbts -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 9時間前 (14子コメント)

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[–]GoRice 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 8時間前* (2子コメント)

Why does Bjergsen do more damage (there's only so much damage you do in laning) than Faker, if Bjergsen is 'so much worse' at team fighting?

Total damage applied to champions is not going to tell you how good someone is at teamfighting. A recent but good example is how Bjergsen threw a teamfight at baron (against KT) by unleashing his LB combo on an Alistar support. Great damage, but Ali still didn't die and TSM then got roflstomped into the ground because the other team may have done less damage, but they all did it on the carries. Nagne's Azir just unleashed on TSM because Bjergsen blew everything on Ali.

Bjergsen then looks good in the statistics, but because of his idiotic play, his team lost that fight.

Same thing against OG. I'm sure Bjergsen did more dmg as Victor, but who cares that Bjergsen can piss farther when xPeke picks Anivia and castrates the entire TSM team? xPeke's Anivia pick completed OG's poke/disengage comp and basically hammered the final nail in TSM's coffin.

Cute that Bjergsen picked Victor that game, but his pick did nothing for his team. It only made himself look a bit better by doing some damage. It would never have threatened OG as a team. Bjergsen could have picked Veigar to help his team engage on OG. Instead, the moron picked Victor and his dmg purely looked nice in the statistics, it did fuck all for TSM. OG were never going to lose that game thanks to him picking a low mobility poke champ.

[–]Helixon -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 7時間前 (1子コメント)

"Total damage applied to champions is not going to tell you how good someone is at teamfighting. A recent but good example is how Bjergsen threw a teamfight at baron (against KT) by unleashing his LB combo on an Alistar support. Great damage, but Ali still didn't die and TSM then got roflstomped into the ground because the other team may have done less damage, but they all did it on the carries. Nagne's Azir just unleashed on TSM because Bjergsen blew everything on Ali. Bjergsen then looks good in the statistics, but because of his idiotic play, his team lost that fight."

Actually that Alistar has ult active so Bjergsen didn't do a whole lot of damage as it could have been. It was a stupid focus, and I'm sure Bjergsen know that more than anyone. I also believe some of the team was lurking in the fog of war. So given what we know after its clearly a bad play, but judging it beforehand it didn't look as bad as it actually was. There's a difference between those two. I'm not going to defend that flash into the baron pit with baron being engaged and no one to tank it, hehe.

In judging of Bjergsen's team fighting ability I think you should rather judge how he perform on the champion and not how bad/good their drafting ability as I think that is whole another discussion.

[–]GoRice 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)

You've got a point about that KT fight. Bjergsen also missed a lot of stuff so his dmg wasn't going to be great even if Ali didn't use ult.

However, before Bjergsen went in they had vision of Ali, Azir and Reksai. So that was still a very bad call by Bjergsen. He's an assassin that didn't do anything that fight but engage on the tanky support and then got chunked out by the other midlaner (before flashing into the baron pit and dying to baron).

In judging of Bjergsen's team fighting ability I think you should rather judge how he perform on the champion and not how bad/good their drafting ability as I think that is whole another discussion.

It's not just about teamfighting ability. Since your argument was that "total damage on champions" matters in determining how good a midlaner in general is with this:

Bjergsen does more damage than Faker statisically. How can you say Bjergsen is no where near the level of Faker when Bjergsen clearly can output more than Faker.

I'd like to argue that that says very little about how good a midlaner really is. I'd say xPeke is head and shoulders above Bjergsen as far as being a midlaner goes. His picks these games were not about being the guy with the most damage, but being the midlaner that can win the games for his team. His Anivia, Ori and TF are not known for being high damage output, but they all contributed way more to OG than Bjergsen has done for TSM. That obviously includes the games against TSM. And in the end, that's all that matters. xPeke even took TP Ori against Bjergsen's Syndra with ignite. Syndra did more damage I'm sure, but Ori was more useful late game and ultimately, that was the difference in that second game against TSM, where OG could capitalize more on little advantages while TSM couldn't compete. Such as dancing at dragon and then tping into TSM's base to take out the nexus tower.

Total damage on champions isn't the be all end all.

[–]STEPHENonPC[EffectivePlacebo] (EU-W) 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 9時間前 (3子コメント)

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[–]lcizzlelc 65ポイント66ポイント67ポイント 9時間前* (0子コメント)

Ugh, you obviously missed the point of his comment.

It's not about who is better individually its about the team as whole.

A team with faker and a poor shot caller isn't going to do as well as a decent team and amazing shot calling. Sure they might win a good amount of games because faker carries, but when they go up against a team with a top notch shot caller and top tier strategies individual skill suddenly doesn't matter as much.

CSGO has this come up all the time. NA teams in CSGO are decent but sometimes lack good shot calling. Their individual skill carries them and then randomly in tournaments they will run up against Brazilian teams that just totally own them. The Brazilian's aren't always the most individually sound but they bring the top tier strategies and that carries them to victory.

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