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MetaFraternity (self.TheRedPill)

∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt が 投稿 - stickied post

Allow me to introduce you to an idea I've been kicking around for a while:

http://www.facebook.com/SigmaIotaPhi

I'm going to be heading this up personally and fully intend for this to someday become a legitimate fraternity or private organization you'll be able to join in colleges around the country. Consider this my contribution towards bursting the misandry bubble.

For the time being I envision this serving as a replacement for PUA "lairs" and a kind of red pill Fight Club where we can meet in real life to coordinate events and mentor one another. Saying you're going to a fraternity meeting is orders of magnitude more acceptable and low-key that using all the PUA and TRP community lingo that can set off red flags in people who are still plugged in.

Ultimately I want to create local chapters around the country for men who have like-minded ideals and have taken the red pill to be able to experience the kind of camaraderie I enjoyed in my military and PUA days.

And on that note, one of the main causes of me wanting to do this was when Meetup decided in their infinite wisdom to start deleting all of the PUA groups that had sprung up over the years. Having an official fraternity is under the radar in a variety of ways and I think long term will legitimize red pill philosophy and give it a push to becoming more mainstream as our philosophy spreads openly in the public, even if we don't call ourselves Red Pill or use familiar terms.

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[–]SexyDeviI 94ポイント95ポイント  (46子コメント)

  1. First rule of Red Pill, don't talk and debate about Red Pill in real world. Let alone make a debate club about it.
  2. Law 38: Think as you like, but behave like others - don't start breaking the laws of Power. It killed Caesar, it can kill us too if we go too far.
  3. Red Pill is not some form of societal hippy movement looking to bring societal change or gang up in completing James Bond style covert mission such as fucking sorority bitches with implementation of RP philosophy.

Making something like this only exposes you and makes you vulnerable, even though the idea is revolutionary, it's not worth implementing.

[–]2rp_valiant 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

I agree in some ways, but I suspect what we'd be better off doing is looking to historical groups that were persecuted and to see how they got away with holding public meetings. Conspiracy theories aside, one of the prime examples is the Freemasons. They used a cover story (stone masons society) and related language as code and misdirection to hide their real purpose. You couldn't talk real Freemason stuff until you'd verified the other person as a member using call-and-response challenges and handshakes. I wonder whether the teachings of history could be applied here?

Ideas for cover explanations that might work:

  • Regular college campus frats - non-college-age members could be grandfathered in as alumni
  • RP-friendly companies with social covers - gym, coffee shop (waking life lol), bar, etc. Side note, fight club was held in the basement of a sympathising bartender so your fight club comparisons make no sense
  • Interest groups - philosophy club, stoicism society, etc.

I haven't detailed the challenges and handshakes (grips) of freemasons here because a lot goes into it, but you can find them on google. It's all very coded and clever which I think is why conspiracy theorists love to accuse them of stuff, but really it's more a humanist organisation slash fraternity with lots of folklore built in.

[–]GuruDev1000 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Listen. Fight Club must be a cool thing to talk about, but it is a movie, not real life. In reality, someone who rents out their place or is a member of the group can easily become 'disillusioned' and decide to give up the secrecy to outsiders.

What if they also decide that a local crime was probably committed by someone from their ex-group, you know, since its a group of misogynists? They may go to the police.

We have to learn from the past, but not blindly. The Freemasons did what they did with the best possibilities of that time. Today, we have the internet. And we can change locations on the net without a fraction of the trouble required for something similar in real life. Same is the case with the identity of a person.

A better option, of if local 'brotherhood' is important, is to still use technology in net spaces and then move onto informal meets in a groups or one-on-one, but to never rely on physical locations as the main meeting spots.

Another advantage of internet is that one can look at things a bit more detachedly, without bringing in their ego, and thus causing a barrier to learning or teaching. That is my opinion, without any scientific backing.

[–]200mgtestc 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fight Club was a great movie (and a better book), but its adoption by a wide variety of people, themes and ideas just seems so crazy.

Roger Ebert:

Of course, "Fight Club" itself does not advocate Durden's philosophy. It is a warning against it, I guess; one critic I like says it makes "a telling point about the bestial nature of man and what can happen when the numbing effects of day-to-day drudgery cause people to go a little crazy." I think it's the numbing effects of movies like this that cause people go to a little crazy. Although sophisticates will be able to rationalize the movie as an argument against the behavior it shows, my guess is that audience will like the behavior but not the argument. Certainly they'll buy tickets because they can see Pitt and Norton pounding on each other; a lot more people will leave this movie and get in fights than will leave it discussing Tyler Durden's moral philosophy.

[–]GuruDev1000 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said. Never thought about that.

[–]2rp_valiant 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Noone has talked about what this group might actually do. I'm not talking about some super secret conspiratorial stuff. Just a group place for masculine men to get together and shoot the shit. The whole "secrecy" thing was just for the optional extra of having an inner TRP spreading core, but that's not even necessary nor the important part in my eyes.

[–]Thesegates 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Now hold on a minute. Take a look at the free masons, they are doing it right. That's what we need. A fraternity isn't it. It's a club like the free masons. This way we can guarantee secrecy and not have some stupid college kids running around trying to take down what's been created. The free masons are not easy to get in and they hold secrecy to the highest degree. You always must be checked on by other free masons to make sure you're legit and deserve to be there. You always have to have people who are willing to put in at least as much as they get back. This is the only thing that could make this work and not crumble.

Take this serious and to that level or don't do it at all.

It could be as easy as getting someone in each state to start recruiting. And do check ins with the mods.

[–]SexyDeviI 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can't compare the organizational structure of free masons to this. Masons are led by an extremely small group of people situated in the top of the pyramid whose goals and mission is completely unknown but debated through centuries.

The lower ranks of Masons (up to the 33rd and even those are oblivious to most of the deepest truths of the order) which consist 99.99% of the membership don't have the faintest clue why they do what they do, what the rituals are about and for what purpose they're conducted. They just know its part of the Order's history and that they have to do it.

This? How secretive can the 'fraternity' be when its mission (without serious details on implementation) is clearly stickied in the Red Pill sub and blatantly expressed in FB page?

Also the purpose and goal of this would be 'fraternity' is completely different from Masons and similar orders.

Get fucking serious people. Don't you have anything better to do?

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't compare the organizational structure of free masons to this. Masons are led by an extremely small group of people situated in the top of the pyramid whose goals and mission is completely unknown but debated through centuries.

Sounds a lot like our own sub, albeit we've only been around a few years.

[–]Thesegates -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't mean it in the context of mission. All members could have knowledge of the mission. I mean that this shit will crumble without seriousness and the right people involved. It can be done and would develop much more comradery than Reddit could offer. It could also save people's lives in college who want to kill themselves. Unlike a fraternity it won't be all about partying, it will be more about developing life and teaching the ways of woman. Don't be such a downer, don't you think some of the best things were created when people like you said stuff like that.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil 3ポイント4ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's funny that you are telling a mod what the Red Pill is. Have you ever written an influential post for the Red Pill? Did you spend hours desperging comment sections? How have you shaped our culture or contributed to our community?

The answer is you haven't. You have done nothing for us so as far as we are concerned you are nothing. You don't get to define what the Red Pill is or where its going.

Where the fuck did you find this first rule of Red Pill? Where is that shit written? Because Iv been talking about the Red Pill openly and in public for years. As far as I'm concerned that a pharasee that was created by the sperg crew.

Its amazing how many fucking betas there are here. Shy fucking betas who shuffle their feet and are afraid of talking about the Red Pill for fear that some Chad might find out and fuck their girlfriend or that they will offend their beta roommate.

[–]SexyDeviI 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

My work for the Red Pill maybe cannot match the worthy, influential contributors such as IllimitableMen (The Legend), Rollo, Archwinger, and many endorsed members (while my opinion remains as influential and strong because it represents the expressed voice of the majority of Red Pillers), but it certainly does surpass the contributions of a poor wanna-be without any substance in his writings, who is trying to make a living off Red Pill selling some third grade shirts to its members.

The last time you and I have debated you've deleted your comment and ran away which can be clearly seen in my posting history. Make sure you don't do it again. I'll enjoy this.

[–]Senior Contributor: "The Court Jester"GayLubeOil -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

No one here knows who the fuck you are, what your opinions are, and you have never even fucking written a Red Pill post. People are buying my merchandise precisely because I have a voice. You can't do what I do and for that reason your jelous.

The majority of Red Pill are betas as are you.

[–]SexyDeviI -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

They do know what my opinions are. They are in the comment above me. A comment you felt compelled to answer to. And when confronted with the truth all you have is an insult for the community in general and some cheap demagogy without even being able to spell 'jealous' properly?

Thank you for proving my point, wanna-be. Go sell some shirts. There are bills to pay.

[–]UrsusG 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think T-shirt peddler is a pretty cool guy. Eh insults his clientele and doesn't afraid of anything.

[–]2rp_valiant -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

so basically what you're saying is you have an inflated sense of self-importance. Your opinion remains influential and strong? I've never even seen your username come up before now. By all means seed dissent against a mods idea if you disagree with it, after all TRP is a pro-free-speech platform, but don't make out like you're some messiah for the majority of TRP fighting against the evil flaired ones. It's childish.

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

while my opinion remains as influential and strong because it represents the expressed voice of the majority of Red Pillers

Lol, is that why they endorsed you, follow you around PMing you about your problems, and why you're one of the key guys that outsiders look to in order to understand this place?

Oh wait, oops.

but it certainly does surpass the contributions of a poor wanna-be without any substance in his writings, who is trying to make a living off Red Pill selling some third grade shirts to its members.

LOL are you saying that you've surpassed GLO? Oh my God, my sides are killing me.

[–]2rp_valiant 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

Too many guys have come here, nothing but take take take, and now that bsutansalt brings up the idea of finding a vehicle for TRP philosophy suddenly they're all downvote brigading because this is their special place and fuck everyone else. They're all too special a snowflake to care about anyone but themselves, and are too lazy and scared to put in the effort of spreading the message. It's pathetic.

[–]SexyDeviI 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

Caring? Special place? "Fuck everyone else" attitude blaming? Putting the effort to spread our message?

You are a full on Blue Pill beta with every societally conditioned emotion one can possible have.

Make sure you really swallow the Red Pill before trying to 'spread its message'.

If you spent more time reading than mentally masturbating on your altruistic tendencies you'd read great posts such as this one:

Trying to make red pill mainstream is a form of white knighting. It isn't going to happen. Human beings have been avoiding reality for as long as we have existed. Religion is a good example. Religion is as old as humans. Even neanderthals had religion.

And the golden top comment:

For TRP to go mainstream it would have to be dumbed down. By doing so, you run the risk of TRP becoming like every other "feel-good" bullshit movement. TRP is for a nuanced group of men who are open-hearted to these ideas, most of which are far closer in line with true reality than the mainstream/feminist narrative.

Stop white knighting. Stop trying to save the fucking betas. Stop trying to save women. Stop trying to save the society.

[–]2rp_valiant -1ポイント0ポイント  (9子コメント)

OK I get it, you're very edgy. You have no human emotions, your opinion of everything is either neutral or positive, you don't care about the direction of wider society. Congratulations, you win the trophy for being the most sociopathic. I put myself first, yes, but I do have secondary concerns. I'm satisfied with the direction my personal life is taking, so I want to invest some effort into my secondary concerns. If you think that's the ultimate in loserdom, you must be great fun at parties.

The fact of the matter is that wider society demonises men right now. I've gotten to the point where I don't care about society trying to demonise me personally, I do what I want to do and fuck what others think. However, one of the things I do want to do is push back against radical feminism. It's pretty clear that the only thing in the world you care about is yourself, and good for you, but for those of us with e.g. nationalist tendencies, we want to make the best of our countries and are disappointed when we see them spiralling the drain.

TLDR congrats on being a Gronk!

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

TLDR congrats on being a Gronk!

Lol, I wouldn't even call him that. He's just a bitch. "Hey guys, I'm too afraid to talk about my ideas in real life and you should be too!"

[–]2rp_valiant -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm glad I'm not the only one shaking my head at /u/SexyDeviI. What's more concerning is that the voting pattern in this thread indicates the majority agree with him.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

What's more concerning is that the voting pattern in this thread indicates the majority agree with him.

I liken it an old Henry Ford quote, “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” In other words they're not seeing the big picture, or they do and are paralyzed by fear.

[–]2rp_valiant 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do have to wonder if the rate of growth of TRP has left a lot of members circlejerking halfway down the TRP path. It's almost like there's not enough people at the fully-swallowed mentoring-ready stage to get the rest past the halfway point and we end up with a lot of anger phasers with not much direction to go further because they're all too busy crying about AWALT or feminism or defending something they've invested their identity in like weed smoking.

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Red pill's not a democracy so the votes mean nothing. Most people come here because they need help and they need others to give them a grip on reality. Until they get that grip on reality, they like to talk about unbreakable rules and codes of secrecy. If they're afraid to associate with red pill then fine; it's their right. But it's so hopelessly pathetic that they act like it's our primary rule.

BTW, I noticed someone gave you a second point. Where'd you get it?

[–]2rp_valiant 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know the votes don't matter, but it's disconcerting that such a large segment of the user base is so out-of-touch. I do worry that newer users just aren't swallowing the pill thanks to diluting of the message brought by all the anti-feminism and BPE posts.

/u/YouDislikeMyOpinion gave me a point on the GLO bashing thread for explaining that if you're so concerned about GLO selling t-shirts, you don't have any real problems to care about and have life too easy. If you're working out hard, starting a business, working on your game, anything difficult and self-improving that TRP advocates, you don't have enough energy left at the end of the day to care that GLO included a t-shirt link in his post.

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Goddamn dude the GLO haters are fucking retarded. If he was producing SHIT content with a shirt ad attached then there's reason to get pissed. However, he spends days writing his posts and meticulously picking every sentence, he's doing shit like fitness consults, and he's providing actual expansion and growth to this place while simultaneously being the only big player to put a face to this sub. He's a fucking godsend to this place. I've never seen an endorsed contributor come out against him, have you noticed that?

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Make sure you really swallow the Red Pill before trying to 'spread its message'.

I think I've swallowed the red pill just fine and I've got no problem telling people about it. But tell me more about how you're more red pill than a double pointed user, and endorsed contributor, GayLubeOil, and a mod put together. Or maybe just fuck off and realize that you don't know this place as well as you think you do.

Stop white knighting. Stop trying to save the fucking betas. Stop trying to save women. Stop trying to save the society.

Really? Because here I am answering dozens of PMs, helping guys on asktrp, and spending a shit load of my time writing insightful posts and comments that have helped thousands of men realize their full potential. Silly me for thinking that's productive. Maybe I should just bitch at everybody instead without saying anything worthwhile because apparently that's red pill virtue.

[–]juliusstreicher 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

A.The first rule of Red Pill, as indicated on all TRP posts (except your strange addendum, which you include as canon) is "Don't talk about RP", not what you wrote. This doesn't mean not to talk about it-It means don't go shooting your mouth off about it to the Uninitiated, don't cast pearls before swine. WTF did you get 'debate club'? For that matter, WTF did you get the bizarre idea that one couldn't organize a fraternity in real life, as one has done on this sub??? "Not talking about TRP", in TRP context doesn't mean that we are to take a vow of silence and never speak, even in private, like a band of assassins.

B. The Laws of Power aren't real laws; the book is a collection of guidelines. You'll find, in real life, that many people who break the 'laws' thrive just about as well as those who adhere to them. You'll find that, had Caesar had a fraternity, he wouldn't have ended up like he did.

C. The proposal of the OP wouldn't expose one and make one any more vulnerable than we already are; it would give us an additional resource. Think of women's groups-they are "exposed", and they, more or less, control the fucking world.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Making something like this only exposes you and makes you vulnerable, even though the idea is revolutionary, it's not worth implementing.

Your fear is paralyzing. I won't countenance such thinking.

[–]A_Redpill_Neckbeard 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

  1. How is this talking about RP in the real world? It's a fraternity.

  2. That doesn't apply here. It's a private fraternity that you join. The way law 38 works is that every circumstance has unwritten rules that you have to be careful about breaking. If you go too far, you can get punished, but living life is inherently risky. And if we take law 38 all the way, does that mean we should all marry up these post wall sluts and become worker-drones the way society wants? We should all just shut up and never color outside the lines? All while thinking red pill but acting like soul-less, emasculated shells of human beings. Yeah... fuck that.

  3. He doesn't want to start a movement. I recommend "The Way of Men" by Donovan if you haven't read it. He's essentially trying to create gangs of men where men can get in touch with their masculinity and find more satisfaction and happiness in their life. This is sorely needed in our culture. And if you haven't read that book, the word gang here will turn you off, but yeah... read it.

Making something like this only exposes you and makes you vulnerable, even though the idea is revolutionary, it's not worth implementing.

Let's all be scared little pussy faggots and hide on the internet then.

Fucking "men" these days.

[–]SexyDeviI 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

where we can meet in real life to coordinate events and mentor one another. Saying you're going to a fraternity meeting is orders of magnitude more acceptable and low-key that using all the PUA and TRP community lingo that can set off red flags in people who are still plugged in.

  1. Are you saying that meeting, organizing and coordinating events doesn't include 'talking'? Have you ever heard of Dark Triad? Machiavellinism? Laws of Power? Have you even read the sidebar? Are you seriously going to go hamster full retard on me right now?
  2. You're either so deep in anger phase it clouded your ability for logical and analytical reasoning or you're IQ is in dangerously low red zone. Do you really think that's what this Law of Power is about? Marry post-wall sluts, become worker-drones? Son, what the fuck are you hamstering about? The fact that living life does have some inherent risk doesn't justify retarded behavior. Driving a car has an inherent risk. Driving a car drunk and senseless with 90Mph speed and passing through the red light does not make you less of an "soul-less, emasculated shell of human being" you are so afraid of being, it just makes you retarded. And has the potential to hurt you in long term, which is opposite of what RP is about.
  3. He is essentially trying what every movement looking to bring societal change attempted and failed at horribly for the previous several thousands of years. He is trying to organize, group up, and bring upon a desired change because he feels too emasculated and unable to do it by himself. Red Pill ain't a movement, you don't get a fucking support group. Red Pill is the only actionable system in the history of society made for advancement in the current societal system as it is without desiring to change the system itself but enable men to thrive more fiercely inside it. A.k.a. taking responsibility and not asking for a lighter burden, but broader shoulders.

Thanks for the book recommendation, I've read it probably much before you could phantom the idea of Red Pill. Here's a homework for you: Machiavelli the Prince, 48 Laws of Power, Meditations, The Art of Worldly Wisdom, Antifragile: Things that Gain from Disorder, Mastery.

Having an official fraternity is under the radar in a variety of ways and I think long term will legitimize red pill philosophy and give it a push to becoming more mainstream as our philosophy spreads openly in the public

This is wrong on so many levels it'd take writing a whole book to express how senseless it is. Pushing Red Pill into the mainstream? Altruism? Feeling of depth to society? Social revolution? Spreading our philosophy openly in the public? Making it 'mainstream'? Have you gone mad?

Report back when you've done your homework and swallowed the Red Pill kid. And stop that irrational emotional hamstering, it's a disgraceful behavior for a semi-grown man.

[–]2rp_valiant 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Bear in mind that the thread poster was bsutansalt, one of the mod team. You don't need to parrot the whole "Red Pill is for individuals, it's not a movement" to him. What he's proposing is to -make- it into a movement. At some point, fight club becomes project mayhem, so to speak.

[–]SexyDeviI 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

What he's proposing is more than precisely and clearly stated by himself:

For the time being I envision this serving as a replacement for PUA "lairs" and a kind of red pill Fight Club where we can meet in real life to coordinate events and mentor one another

legitimize red pill philosophy and give it a push to becoming more mainstream as our philosophy spreads openly in the public

This won't work. The idea is a deep cry of noble intent and enthusiasm for the Red Pill but it's nearly unimplementable (and potentially dangerous). Who'll filter and screen whether the applicants for the 'fraternity' are real deal or fakes/betas/SJW's? Who will create tests for screening? How will they be conducted? Who will rent the place for meetings? How will that be financed? How will you ensure secrecy? How will you fight the feminists and sjw's constantly bugging you? Who will be in charge of that? Who will be the leader, who will set the rules of conduct? What if all those young guns hyped on testosterone and will to dominate start with verbal and possibly physical conflicts during meetings/actions? Who will have the power to subdue them? Who will create rules? Who will enforce them? How? And many more unanswered questions.

Bothering with all of that alongside constantly fighting off SJW's in order to create a RP male support group is a futile effort. Look at the Mike Cernovich of D&P - the man can't even publish the location of his Seminar because it will get Swatted. What kind of problems do you think a bunch of Red Pillers organizing in order to push their ideology into the mainstream will face?

Could we win? Fuck yes. We're smarter, stronger, better. Is it worth it? Fuck no.

I'll rather go make a shit ton of money, bang plates, enjoy life with my mates and do extreme sports than waste my time and energy trying to change society and make it more Red Pill.

I suggest all interested in this do the same. Get a life. You won't need Project Mayhem's and senseless drama to feel alive then.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Allow me to clarify...

Making our philosophy more mainstream would just be a side benefit as more men joined the fraternity on campuses, same as how our philosophy has spread across reddit in recent years. Look at how palatable our ideas are when you don't use red pill lingo. Blue pillers across social media openly agree with us when they don't realize an idea originated here.

Bottom line, our philosophy being mainstream is not a goal in of itself. That will come about organically as the mere exposure effect of red pill philosophy increases.

[–]2rp_valiant 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Basically what you're saying is that it's a good idea, but it seems like a lot of effort that you personally would not be willing to put in. All the questions you asked are answerable, and I think it's fairly obvious that it wouldn't be openly red pill. That's a bad idea from the get-go. I think individual referrals vetted by senior members would work well to ensure that the standards are maintained.

There's a lot of questions around this, and I think it's a good thing that bsutansalt has raised the idea so that we can figure out whether there's interest enough to actually start answering them. I can tell you for a start that I could personally fund one of these clubs, and then get my money back over time from subs. But unless there's interest there's no point expending the effort to figure out how to make it water-tight.

[–]SexyDeviI 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Basically what you're saying is that it's a good idea

No. I'm saying exactly the opposite. If you've read my comments on this thread, you'd realize that by now.

[–]2rp_valiant 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

to quote your comment

Could we win? Fuck yes. We're smarter, stronger, better.

By good idea I mean you agree it could work.

[–]SexyDeviI 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

We could also win at a pissing contest which doesn't preclude that it's a good idea.

This idea is not beneficial and in line with the goals of a true Red Piller. There's nothing "good" about it.

[–]2rp_valiant -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

think about it this way. When you've gotten to the point when you're happy in yourself, you have a solid plate rotation, have a great time with your mates etc. and still look around and see 90% of men being kept in beta stasis, some of whom are deeply depressed but don't know why, and think the current state of affairs is the way men are meant to be, do you not want to help? If you don't that's fine, but some of us do and it's difficult to do so and try to change the landscape without some kind of way of organising with other RPers. The internet is not a venue for organising change.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What he's proposing is to -make- it into a movement. At some point, fight club becomes project mayhem, so to speak.

Maybe, maybe not. It's mostly just creating a safe space for men to be men. We have that here in TRP online, but men need a place in the real world too. I think this fraternity could provide that function. It'll also help men organize their own events, such as the mentorship I offer, that was stripped away when Meetup deleted all the PUA-related groups.

[–]2rp_valiant 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

well, I think overall there are two ideas being discussed in the thread that are getting mixed up. One is a man-club for manly men, and the other is a vehicle for TRP philosophy. It would make more sense to discuss in separate threads in turn, on their own merits, but c'est la vie.

[–]juliusstreicher 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's essentially trying to create gangs of men where men can get in touch with their masculinity and find more satisfaction and happiness in their life. This is sorely needed in our culture. And if you haven't read that book, the word gang here will turn you off...

Which is ironic...because when you look at 'gang' culture, you see that many of it's proponents are multimillionaires, get on TV as celebrities, get invited to the White House, etc...

Back in the day being a 'gangster' was scorned, but, for the last 20 years, any kind of 'gang', 'crew' or 'posse' gives one an element and aura of power.

[–]CptDefB 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't actually log in too much, but I will for this one. Some thoughts.

  • The first thing I did was google Sigma Iota Phi. There is already an established fraternity named Phi Sigma Iota. I don't live in the US, so I don't know how people respond to such close similarities.
  • Red and black should not be the colors. Yes, they're masculine, but as others have mentioned, any association to red or pills, shouldn't be there. Blue and white can present a very crisp, clean, "PC" image. Black and blue also, like the night mode I'm looking at. The irony of using blue to infiltrate blue would also be nice.
  • The mascot must be a Trojan Horse. Please. Why? "Because we admire what the Greeks did at Troy and many other aspects of greek culture like... blah blah blah" Baby talk for the masses. "Because you are Neo, we are Morpheus, and we're about to change your life." Straight talk for the homies.
  • Others have mentioned Illuminati, Masons, Skull & Bones... there is definitely something to be learned from the way those groups operate. Say what you want about conspiracy theories, but power is power, which is why these groups always draw the ire of the majority who doesn't have as much of it.
  • Anything about sexual marketplace, also has to go. I believe it was Oscar Wilde (I'm going off memory, fuck Google), who said "Everything is about sex, except sex. Sex is about power." If all the things we do, translate to money or growth as a person which can revert back into more money, follow along now... and money usually gets all the sex you want... Everything is about money, except money. Money is about power. You can convey the exact same message with power talk, leaving the straight talk for behind closed doors, and the baby talk on your About Us page.

  • It doesn't take long to think of men's club type activities, but in order to keep the signal pure, per se, I think they should all revolve around the tenets we have here; a book club so the mind is always growing, gymbros to push other gymbros, entrepreneurial support to help each man become a self made man, and just doing useful shit as a group: wood/glass/iron workshops, camping/fishing/hunting trips, coding/cooking (not like they will, lol)/knitting (or at least learning how to fix your buttons when they get loose/fall off)/other auxiliary skills (Robert Heinlein's quote comes to mind here) you see where I'm going. Useful life skills that a man may actually rely on as opposed to "let's just do this because it's fun". That said, leisure is required but the the frat should place a higher regard for chess/go/pool/etc than your average person's passtime, as an example. These are the things that should be used to promote the group.

  • TRP IS NOT ABOUT SELF IMPROVEMENT. IT'S ABOUT SEXUAL STRATEGY. Okay. I get that. In which case, while the frat is doing all of the above, ABC applies. Always Be Closing. Shopping for your well made meal plan? Well now you have bros encouraging you to hit on that girl they caught you eyeing down the aisle. It's during these times, literally hiding in plain sight (Morpheus taught Neo inside the Matrix, not outside), that everything else TRP has to offer becomes relevant. Once you've got pledges or whatever, aka, people you're willing to have beside you as you climb excellence mountain, then they can learn all this other shit. Also, the text in caps is all the more reason the frat shouldn't be associated with TRP at all. TRP is one resource among many others we use to conquer the world (or more aptly, our place in it). We just so happened to meet at the nexus of what we as men all enjoy; women. A frat for getting laid is already every other frat on a popular campus. If this frat is to achieve more, then it should be about more, than just core red pill theories regarding the sexual marketplace.

[–]UrsusG 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why wasn't this post upvoted more?

It's a voice of reason in the sea of secret society generals and t-shirt peddlers.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The mascot must be a Trojan Horse.

I've thought about this for a while, and that was the push I needed.

TRP IS NOT ABOUT SELF IMPROVEMENT. IT'S ABOUT SEXUAL STRATEGY

Self-improvement IS a core component of men's sexual strategy though. Also, do a quick translation of the frat's name into a Latin to English translator. :smirk:

It doesn't take long to think of men's club type activities, but in order to keep the signal pure, per se, I think they should all revolve around the tenets we have here; a book club so the mind is always growing, gymbros to push other gymbros, entrepreneurial support to help each man become a self made man, and just doing useful shit as a group: wood/glass/iron workshops, camping/fishing/hunting trips, coding/cooking (not like they will, lol)/knitting (or at least learning how to fix your buttons when they get loose/fall off)/other auxiliary skills (Robert Heinlein's quote comes to mind here) you see where I'm going.

The primary activities will initially be centered around those that raise men's SMV. Secondary are those that build camaraderie. Tertiary activities are those that build auxiliary skills that don't directly influence SMV one way or another.

[–]FaustoRMD 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think a man-only club where you do manly stuff (fishing, boxing, clubbing, lifting and hormonal enhancement, intelectual meetings and debates...the list go on), promoting classic masculinity and portraying it as the highest ideal would be the greatest think ever, even when you don't use a single red pill term. Like the illuminati but being good people.

[–]UrsusG 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

This, you guys, this.

If you must, create a classic men's club (or clubs, with local chapters, etc) with men's activities.

Talk vaguely about 'realizing your potential' but don't fucking mention the words 'sexual marketplace' on your front page, or you'll be marked as 'PUA creeps' in 0.01 seconds.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The facebook page has been refined. Look again.

[–]2rp_valiant 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

These used to be widespread in London and were called Gentlemen's Clubs. I know that word means strip joints now, but it didn't back then. They were male-only organisations that allowed men to meet in private to socialise over a cigar and a fine whiskey, or conduct private business behind closed doors. Members would treat other members favourably in business transactions and thus all members rose up through mutual support. They were the real "old boys clubs". I think there's only really one left, White's on St James Street, London, but they're under constant pressure to admit women.

The real difficulty with starting a group like this, awesome as it would be, would be keeping out women. There's a barbers in Manchester that don't allow women in the premises but they've been under constant media scrutiny and have been repeatedly protested and vandalised by legbeard feminist harpies.

[–]Kolbath 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I went looking for fraternal organizations not long ago. Moose. Elks, etc.

I found a bunch of dying old men referring to one another by grandiose names like, "Exalted Ruler". I was saddened by this. Those fraternal organizations did great things in the past, from building homeless shelters to teaching life skills. Hell, when I was growing up, my town had a HAM radio shack staffed entirely by Elks. Any kid could go there and learn HAM. They'd help you study for the license and everything. VOIP Has pretty much killed HAM, but the fact remains that there is no place left where men can be men.

I think we need something like this.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reading up more on the Freemasons and how their goals are secret I like the idea of the fraternity having...secrets. More specifically, secret knowledge in the context of the frat being like this sub when we spread out philosophy in other subs without using red pill terms and lingo. Every time we do those other subs tend to agree with us, sometimes being the most upvoted threads in years. Same could happen with the frat and pledges have to vow to keep their mouths shut about all of the inner workings and red pill specific concepts and terms in public.

[–]michael_wilkins 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't Fraternities have to be allowed on a campus?

What campus is going to let in a fraternity with the motto tits and wine?

Unless your going to have your own university. With blackjack and hookers.

[–]silver_nuke13 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I once though we should make a red pill tinder, hang out with pillers in your area

[–]Birdoftruth 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lets change the About page at this point to look just like a regular fraternity and not mention anything about sex. Then once it is exclusive we can start discussing shit.

[–]ManOfGrapes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just so everyone is aware of the state of Greek Life: it is nearly impossible to stay active on your own terms without the crushing fist of the administration fucking you over. Events have to be registered. If you don't own the house itself outright you can forget about doing half the shit you think you'll be able to do. Fraternity men walk around with targets on the back of their heads -- one of the few reasons they remain open is due to financial contributions from alumni.

Having said all of that, I would love nothing more than a tangible male space on campus/something I could give back to after graduating. I think there is a way to avoid doxxing/remain mostly anonymous if people thought put their heads together. But ultimately I think it would have to be a smaller, private club that remains largely underground. RP-aware men will (for the near future) remain in the minority, nothing can change that.

[–]RICCIedm 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like the idea of making something in person (having more RP friends in real life)

[–]ColonelMitchell 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

don't do this. bad idea man.

[–]MeltzerDriver 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

A bunch of dudes straight-talking about TRP philosophy in a frat like Patrice O'Neal did on his radio shows will not end well. I have no idea how he got away with it and didn't face public scrutiny. (EDIT: Actually thinking about it now, he never really made it far in his career because of how straight forward/blunt he was, so he didn't really get away with it).

If you're going to do this, it has to be more covert/in powertalk language. Make it more about male self improvement, confidence, brotherhood, and positive masculinity. Using TRP jargon like ''SMV'' is going to set off red flags.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Point taken. Notice all of the overt TRP lingo has since been removed. The "straight talk" will happen behind closed doors a la Skull & Bones.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So can you pm or write here more of a plan of action? How do you intend to make it secret? What is your plan for dealing with ifc? Will you allow graduated members and non college men to join? The fraternity I belong too let's anyone who is vouched for by 3 men join if voted upon by a chapter. How will you be able to keep membership roles secret? How do you plan to recruit top guys and get them to join your fraternity instead of the higher tier ones at large campuses? You'll definitely have to keep this secret at most campuses because it would be bad pr for universities. How much will dues be? You will need older members for donations, many frats have strong alumni support.

[–]FueledByHerbs 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you ever been initiated into a frat?

[–]J_AsapGem 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's a good gesture but bad idea, i'm sure you've seen the matrix, people feel comfortable being " plugged in " they're not gonna change just like that unless they recognise they were different from within. it's better for us to know the truth than the plugged in, this is an example of what would happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAhlyiTPcMU

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Holy shit the comment section is a den of negativity!

Maybe it's a good idea, maybe it's a bad idea. If you are willing to take the risk, I say go for it. If you build it, they will come! Every man has a different risk appetite, and some guys have to hide in the shadows, while others can say and do what they want (like a Dan Bilzerian). If you succeed, you will be the first and only, and the world will be your oyster. If you crash and burn, well, just another lesson for the rest of us to contemplate.

I was in a frat in college. It was a studious frat that was expensive as fuck. Looking back I wish I had joined the frat that was full of party animals. They were known for throwing lingerie parties and keggers quite often. Our group was fucking tame in comparison. Damn did I miss the boat on that one.

There are so many angles to figure out, hurdles to jump, etc. And college males are so flaky and unreliable, it's almost better to recruit guys who have finished their undergrad. A proper gentlemen's club would be fucking great. But, it's your baby. Make it work. Good luck.

[–]justtookit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course, don't actually use the phrase "gentleman's club", as it's taken by something else in America.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy shit the comment section is a den of negativity!

Too many Wannabe-Batemans here, who think that becoming RP does mean that you also inevitably have to try to kill your empathy and stop supporting and helping other people.

It also sticks out, that all this negativity is exclusively provided by people who didn't provide any notable value to this community and, judging by their words and displayed attitude, also never will.

They furtherly just prove, that being subbed here does not equal having read all the stuff and surely not having comprehended it and that they haven't even read some of the basic stuff by one of the most profiled members /u/illimitableman. who I bet had to say a thing or two about the glorification of the DT. Although I doubt they would care, looking at those comments another profiled member, who spent hours and hours on creating valueable content and helping guys 101, /u/GayLubeOil got.

It's still a little bit enraging, that those little fuckers could not succeed in keeping their fucking mouthhole shut and sparred us from their mental diarrhea and most importantly refrained from insulting not only an active mod, but one of the men who helped lay the foundation of what we call TRP today.

Fuck those little dumbfucks. Seriously. Just piss off. Nobody wants you here. Nobody needs you here. Maybe come back when you have learned just anything about respect and when you are ready to finally give something back in return for the stuff you enjoy here for free. Be happy that I don't enjoy mod-privileges here, since I wouldn't have bothered but just instabanned your lazy asses.

Also all those idiots who upvote shit like that: Fuck off as well, please.

TRP is not the fucking fight club. If you can't distinct fiction from reality than you've got way bigger problems than swalling some metaphorical pill.

[–]straight_to_the_top 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Good idea, but probably a horrible implementation. Assuming people know the shit you represent, do you realize how much flack you're gonna get from just wearing your fucking letters around? You could probably try to keep membership secret but that'll be difficult too. You're going to have to sugarcoat everything cuz it's gonna reek of creepiness to most people. And the media will help with that.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Going full on Skull & Bones was a thought. Make it full on secret society. However, that would just amp up the public perception of creepy IMO.

[–]gurglemel 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why is this all about extremes for you? Just take down the page, get rid of the name, and start a new one from scratch that looks just as standard as every other frat out there. Don't write the words "red" or "redpill" anywhere.Get rid of the red colour too.

As for the rushes and members...I probably wouldn't even mention anything about the community and this sub until way after they've joined. If you're doing your job correctly, they should have it figured out that you guys have something quite profound to impart on them concerning our society , our brainwashed thinking and the state of man today and that if they stick around they'll be able to learn something indispensable. They'll put 2 and 2 together and figure it out on their own.

If you are not taking this route, you'll get shut down. Let alone you'll be discouraging people from joining int he first place.

[–]Chrience 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If its a fraternity that teaches guys to become alpha from beta, and threaten women's own sexual strategy in the process, I think feminists would make sure its seen as 'creepy' regardless if its secret or not.

This wouldn't be the first time they've done this, just about every other male only society has been pressured to let women in. To them, men MUST not get together alone and exchange ideas, women despise men they 'own' spending time without them. A red pill fraternity that teaches men the benefits of doing this ,freeing them from their girlfriends/wives, they would despise even more.

[–]0638003094 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm interested in seeing how this develops, be careful with exposing yourself as redpilled though. Many examples of people being 'outed' and having their life ruined.

[–]Ronin11A 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it's called "The Red Pill" so if you're going to go Greek with it, it should be "Tau Rho Psi/Pi/Phi."

Goddamn GDIs.

[–]mr_nate_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I idea catches my attention, especially coordinating real life events to build a stronger community, but I'm worried about publicly liking the page on Facebook. I don't want BP men and women to know that I'm involved with a "sexual market discussion" fraternity page.

On the other hand, being a part of this blade that'll cut into misandry is enticing. Thoughts on keeping this side of me separate from my public life OP?

[–]great_artists_steal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would encourage everyone to read this criticism [1] of Sexual Economics, Culture, Men, and Modern Sexual Trends.

[1] http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Laurie_Rudman/publication/280693999_Why_Sexual_Economics_Theory_Is_Patriarchal_Reply_to_Vohs_and_Baumeister's_(2015)_Comment_on_Rudman_and_Fetterolf_(2014)/links/55c4a67a08aea2d9bdc3853e.pdf

[–]aDrunkenWhaler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can call it fraternity, you can call it alpha beta ninja brotherhood or whatever, if it builds a crowd everyone will easily find out it is TRP related and in no time will get the same hate grup status as all other groups, leaving the followers exposed to social stigma. A name changes nothing.

[–]OKJaded 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you want to start a place where RP philosophy can be debated freely in real life...

  • It does not have to be a College Fraternity. Freemasons, as others have pointed out, is a great example.
  • Members must be vetted in real life, via numerous face to face meetings over a period of months before initiation.
  • All rituals, handshakes, call-and-returns, and so on must be communicated in person only once the member is initiated.

If you didn't join a Fraternity in your undergrad I'd team up with someone who did. Even the Greek letters you choose should each have a meaning. Each campus has different guidelines for Greek Life as well. Applying for a charter from campus to campus will vary but there should still be a clear vision on what the organization would contribute to the campus. All this could also be skipped if we just cut out the college part.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even the Greek letters you choose should each have a meaning.

They do. Sexualem Imperatoriis Virorum.

[–]BlackPhoenix01 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What makes TRP so interesting is the fact that it isn't a social movement. I imagine a lot of us found it to change ourselves, not the world around us. (Of course, we can change the world by changing ourselves, but that's a whole new ball game). The idea that there will be a wave of self-respecting men who have rediscovered their masculinity, while idealistic, is just moot.

It kind of goes against what I see as TRP. The very core of what it is, at least to me, is that you're not responsible for other people (and they aren't responsible for you), you're only responsible for yourself.

And while a lot of the TRP focuses on the kind of general behaviours and tactics that women use, it would be folly to imagine that men are morally infallible. Goes without saying, but nevertheless, I would be careful with the company I choose. Not everyone is going to be open to such ideas, much less even have your back.

Brotherhood is something to be cherished, but it's only valuable if it's with people who really do give a damn about you

[–]TRP_Fraternity 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Holy shit. Please don't do this. You just don't understand how this whole thing works.

You're going to make every legitimate fraternity look bad.

[–]BaconEggsAndSleaze 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

legitimate fraternity

What year did you pledge? That will say a lot.

[–]Squeezymypenisy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

How would older members join this one?

[–]The_fox_in_lion_skin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I will be going back to college and using my GI Bill soon. If your really serious about this, message me. I wouldn't mind starting a chapter in one of the biggest college in the Mid East.

Edit: I read your Facebook group and the message. Your going to have to scrap the name because it's now associated with trp. The frat will have to sound and look like every other fraternity or sorority, but once a pledge becomes a brother or sister we tell them the real message. No reason to have a target on your back from the start, especially since most universities are run by feminists.

[–]Limekill 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure someone wants to join to find out the "real message latter"... it seems very bait and switch, almost encourages an insider to report on the group.... esp. if they are whiteknights/bps.

Perhaps focus on being the best male you can be... Then introduce no moral code regarding sex (obviously follow societys laws, etc), and then go from there.

Also a feminist can and will try and get it shut down by claiming harrasement or rape so expect that.

[–]TerritorialWolf 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Won't establishing a fraternity make TRP more vulnerable? It will expose the members to direct attacks and can hasten the deterioration of RP wisdom?

Also, I thought we aren't trying to make TRP a movement. It's a philosophy and not a movement. Only certain guys can get swallow the redpill, the rest will dilute it.

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Only certain guys can get swallow the redpill, the rest will dilute it.

Hence the need to screen for appropriate members. Not everyone who is interested in will be permitted to join. This is all very much a work in progress and the details are being worked out as I type this. Every time you guys give me feedback you're finding another bug in the code I need to fix.

[–]Birdoftruth 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like this man, lets make this happen

[–]Squeezymypenisy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is this going to be facebook only?

[–]UrsusG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It'll end up being facebook-only. No one will have the time, money and/or energy go follow up in the real world.

Maybe a few guys will meet up once or twice on a major campus, but that'll be it.

[–]2 Endorsed ContributorCisWhiteMaelstrom -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a shit comment thread. If you don't want to go talk about the red pill in public then don't. At least the mods of this community are thinking of new ideas instead of becoming stagnant. Let those who want to participate do so and quit bitching.

[–]Endorsed ContributorScholarInRed 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The ultimate goal of this fraternity is for our brothers (and sisters) to realize their full sexual market value potential.

What's the official policy on sisters? Are we just appearing to consider them?

I'd definitely be interested in joining one of these. I live in the middle of nowhere in Ireland but will soon move to either Cork or Limerick city, for any Irish redpillers on here.

[–]silver_nuke13 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well we're not a boys only club or some kabballah, as long as their pussy doesn't get in the way i don't see serious problems.

[–]Endorsed ContributorScholarInRed 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well we're not a boys only club

That is precisely what a fraternity is. It's literally the meaning of the word (brotherhood).

[–]silver_nuke13 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dang poe's law strikes again

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguard | Senior Contributorbsutansalt[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If women want to make a sister sorority I'm all for it and i'm sure /r/redpillwomen would support them.

[–]Jax-T -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even I get excited even though I don't live in U.S. I wish you all the best brothers.

[–]FoolishWiseGuy -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is there any plans to implement this in the UK?

[–]2rp_valiant -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

do it yourself - depending on the location, I might be interested in helping.

[–]chiefpill -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why the fuck would you want others to know about TRP? Let them stumble across it just as we have. If they don't, that's even better. Knowledge is power, use it wisely.