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LTRLTR - dismissed after trying to initiate sex (self.TheRedPill)

PM-YOUR-SECRETS が 投稿

Summary: exclusive LTR, with kids. Was denied sex and dismissed. I withdrew emotionally and let her stew for a couple of days. She comes back offering.

I initiated and was denied sex - on grounds of being too tired. In a real dismissive way. Not too tired to keep on browsing internet and facebooking for another hour though.

I immediately withdrew and started reading a book elswehere. Didn't mention it again. She started folding laundry, emptying dishwasher, cleaning up. Then on laptop for some time. Then wishing me goodnight while lingering. I just said 'Ok'.

Following day, that is yesterday, I was business like. No small talk, no unnecessary words. In the evening; same deal. I read, she did some more random housework and watched netflix.

Two days is all it needed. This morning she blew my phone up with messages about me not needing to be angry. I held frame. Stating 'nope, not angry'. 'So you'll be available for cuddling tonight'? 'Try me'.

Some more messages about me being angry for the initial issue, which I just ignored. The she sent one more about her still loving me. That I replied with 'damn straight. Pizza tonight?'

I'll see what gives tonight. But this course sure is better than trying to initiate again, or trying to have a stupid ass talk about it; which is basically something in her camp that then would turn into 'our' and then 'my' issue. I'm done with that shit.

I don't know if this was a shit test or whatever. Insights are welcome.

Lessons learned: Not sure. In any case, not debating the issue and acting on yourself instead worked. I guess if I don't get suckered into a pointless argument about her refusal I come out on top.

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[–]cholomite 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's a very fine line between being butthurt and pouty about getting denied and just not caring or giving any fucks and doing your own thing. Seems like you went about it well. I always try to make at least one joke or tease her playfully just once. When my gf thinks I'm being distant because she refused me sex, it doesn't bother her. When she thinks I'm being distant because i just have better things to do, she freaks out. The difference between the two is your attitude and the way you talk to her throughout. It's very hard to spend an evening with someone watching tv or whatever where you try to communicate minimally without seeming pouty or bitchy. I prefer to just disappear the next night or couple of nights without saying much. That way ill still be in a good mood but she won't get to enjoy any of it.

[–]mikey301029 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is great perspective. You control your attitude and hold frame. It's no big deal, because we men have better things to do with our time anyways.

[–]cholomite 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. The important part is to have better things to do. Watching Netflix while casually ignoring your gf won't get her tingles going. Leaving at night, not answering your phone and coming home late will.

[–]royal_fucktard 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The best thing you can do is not give your time to a woman in this situation. Your time is worth a lot and if she thinks you're giving your time to someone else (which you should be) she will try to put and end to that real quick. And she knows The only weapon she really has in order to do this is her body.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Complacency is the death of a LTR, and I sense some warning signs here…

1. Her tingle meter is low. Sex can become another mundane task if you’re not careful. Sure, we all get tired. But she chose Facebook and browsing over sex with you. Let that be your motivator.

2. Reliance on freeze out. Yes it worked, for now. Instead, you might try some basic Caveman Game, like picking her up and spinning her or tossing her onto the bed. If she’s still not into it, let it go for now. But realize that the sexual energy of your relationship could be waning, and she only responded to your freeze out because she doesn’t want to lose your Provider Guy benefits.

Dread is an effective strategy for killing complacency because you work at ramping up your SMV (fuck-worthiness to other women), and this encourages her to employ more Girl Game. When other women indicate they want you, you re-establish preselection and evoke jealous pangs. So it’s not just about you trying harder, it’s about getting her to try harder for the right reasons (the potential of losing you to a hotter woman).

[–]nemaxofredpill 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. Caveman game is the best when she is "too tired". Have done it before and it got her really turned on. Essentially, just taking it. Don't let her do the whole missionary sex or anything. Just pick her up, carry her to the room, bend her over the bed, and fuck her until you cum. Don't even worry about her cumming. Remember she is too tired for that. Then, after you are done, go to the other room and start reading a book like nothing happened. Promise she will be in there trying to get more because she didn't cum. Tell her "maybe tomorrow" because you are too tired.

[–]1pcadrian 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

He who doesn't act butthurt gets the prize. Nicely handled.

[–]iam-mike 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, and to even further this, I think an escalation is in order too. Never done anal? wanna fuck her bent over the office or some other shit?

Claim it today, have her know her place, she will thank you for it

[–]floppymammarygland 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Instead of hanging around the house "netflixing" take your ass to the gym. Try cooking with gasoline if you know what I'm saying.

[–]turbosympathique 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The biggest question here that your are not addressing is :

What DO YOU WANT?

[–]1Sir_Distic 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I noticed a few things:

Not too tired to keep on browsing internet and facebooking for another hour though. You sound mad. I immediately withdrew and started reading a book elswehere. Didn't mention it again.
Nice Guy behavior. Basically sulking.

She started folding laundry, emptying dishwasher, cleaning up. Then on laptop for some time. Then wishing me goodnight while lingering. I just said 'Ok'

More

Some more messages about me being angry for the initial issue, which I just ignored. The she sent one more about her still loving me. That I replied with 'damn straight. Pizza tonight?'

I'll see what gives tonight.

You're responsible for your own sexual satisfaction. And for giving her tingles.

When you get to the point that her denying you sex doesn't affect you in the slightest your relationship will be much better.

I highly recommend reading the books on the sidebar. I'm on The Rational Male by u/RolloTomassi then Models. I've read No More Mr. Nice guy and will read it again.

You're angry that she denied you sex. Why is that? Does she 'owe' you sex when you want it? Some other reason?

[–]PM-YOUR-SECRETS[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nice Guy behavior. Basically sulking

I'll read up on that. Generally, I just try to avoid a pointless emotional discussion; I'm totally lost in those. If I keep a strictly rational approach, she is lost. But we have to find a way to reconcile. So I tried this. Not sure it was the best approach, but it worked - this time.

I'm not angry for being denied. I gave signals throughout the day, which seemed welcomed. The moment I act, she however changes her mind (which is OK), but gives me a fake excuse and an attitude. That I didn't like. But I didn't argue, I instead withdrew and waited it out.

[–]Kolbath 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The ASD reflex is strong, even in married and LTR women. She gave you a burst of ASD in her "I'm too tired" nonsense. What it really meant was, "I'm not aroused by you at this moment." No woman on earth is going to be too tired if they're turned on enough.

[–]unplugging15 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Emotional discussions are womens' arena i.e. their frame. Steer clear unless the conversation needs to happen, and then, you do it within your frame.

Good on you for not arguing or being outright pouty. Are you lifting/exercising in general? If so, you can always instill a little dread by hitting the gym in the evening while legitimately bettering yourself because you want to.

[–]fudpucket 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As far as LTR goes, what you are doing is simply keeping the action alive by showing you aren't just there for when she wants it. That's a good attitude to have and to continue to have. But as for shit testing, I think she was just making a comment and you handled it well, you didn't't continue to press the issue and you went about your own independence. If you had continued to press for a fuck then she would have begun shit testing you, but like I said you held frame in a manner that is positive in an LTR and should be kept up to stay interesting.

[–]monzzter221 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Lesson here:

Reward good behavior, do not reward bad behavior.

If a woman denies sex, give her no validation whatsoever until she corrects her behavior. That's the lesson here.

[–]Derpetite -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

People are allowed to not want sex. Not wanting sex isn't bad behaviour that needs to be corrected.

[–]monzzter221 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're absolutely correct.

But the guy wants sex. That need is not getting met. The woman wants attention. What's wrong with not meeting that need for her?

People are allowed to not want to cuddle, or to generally want to be left alone.

[–]watch_ping 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct, but if you don't want sex in an exclusive LTR expect your partner to get it elsewhere.

[–]Dreamless_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not wanting sex in a committed LTR especially when sex has been on the table before and one of the conditions the LTR is established upon is behavior that needs to be corrected. Choosing to finger-fuck a mindless, social media black hole over sex with the person you're supposed to please and be affectionate with is DAMN sure behavior that needs to be corrected.

[–]Kalidane 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't get the context. You live together? Kids together, or yours or hers?

You read a book, a magazine, a shopping catalogue? These each signal differently to her. In any case, fuck that. Go change the oil on your car. Or do something to wood with tools. In the garage. Playing that music you like.

Anywho, she wouldn't have been too tired to fuck Brad Pitt. She was too 'un-tingled' to fuck you. It sucks when things go this way, but it's on you and so is changing things.

[–]Zeparic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do yourself a favor and Google Rollo's article "Your Friend Menstruation" and after you've read it track her cycle. My LTR functions like clockwork because of it.

Follicular phase: Menses & Proliferative (Alpha period) This is the time I'm met with great reciprocation to my overt, dominant, sexual advances. No shit tests or excuses as long as I maintain frame and display the alpha qualities she finds attractive.

If she resists during this time it's because A. you lost/have no frame B. she sees you as beta C. She's shit-testing you to determine what you are.

Luteal phase: Secretory (Beta period) According to Rollo during this period women prefer more intimate/emotional qualities in men. During this phase she's incredibly resistant and whiny if the sex isn't worked up, by that I mean that she's more than willing to open up sexually as long as these emotional barriers are passed. That said, it doesn't mean you should behave like a beta, alpha traits are what ensue sexual arousal in women. However, It's up to you at the end whether or not investing this much effort in a woman is worth the sex. For an LTR you cannot avoid going through this if you want to maintain it, but a plate can go fuck herself until she decides she wants to fuck you.

This is just my experience of course, month after month these behaviors have repeated themselves in our relationship consistently.

I believe you took the right course of action, but like others have said it can come off as passive aggressive and weak if your body language (which women are keenly able to discern) gives you away.

Still, it's a trade off like you said, she wants emotions you want sex.

[–]JohnGalt316 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

if she denies you, watch some porn and jack off

get your needs met

it helps you from becoming bitter

she is allowed to say no. it is up to you to decide when her denials outweigh the benefits she brings to the relationship. when that happens, relationship is over.

[–]UrsusG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My problem with all the advice given here is OP still doesn't get sex when he asked for it. He maybe gets it next time when she's more in the mood or when he's 'improved' his game.

Meanwhile it's win-win for her. She doesn't have to put out when she doesn't feel like it, and gets OP to amp up his game to give her tingles.

The only solution (not for OP though) is to not be in an exlusive LTR. Bitch doesn't want to put out? Meet up with another.

Any other solution is still dancing to her tune.

[–]Henemil 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dread game, never have this problem again.

Dread Game - Purposefully inciting jealousy in an LTR by openly getting attention from other women. Soft Dread is similar, but less open. With Soft Dread, the attention doesn't even need to be real. Creating the possibilty for female attention is enough to get the hamster going. (If you develop a great body, she knows that other women will find that attractive without having to actually see other women displaying interest.) The purpose of using Dread is to get the target (wife, girlfriend, plate) to step up their game to compete with other interested women.

[–]pirateninj4[🍰] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (11子コメント)

It may or may not have been a shit test. LTR's are different, sometimes the not wanting sex can be legit.

Don't go overboard on being a dick. Remember Push/Pull, sometimes you push away, sometimes you pull back in. Judging by your explanation I would say that when she comes over if you are warm and sexual you will get a good reaction.

Also, don't be shy about initiating sex. Losing that confidence in your sexuality will be worse for your relationship in the long run.

[–]PM-YOUR-SECRETS[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Thanks, and I accept it can be legit.

I try not to be a dick, but just neutral. I'll be warm tonight then, and see what happens.

I initiate plenty and I'm confident enough, but I don't welcome :rolleyes: , a sigh, a shrug and a shit excuse as a reply. Hence the reaction and thread.

[–]pirateninj4[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

So when that happens you need to have a narrative for yourself in place. Her narrative is "oh god he wants to have sex again" - no tingles from her usually means you haven't established enough value to get that response from her. No woman who sees her man as "That Good Good" will turn him down.

In your shoes, I would be using the dread game. If she gives me attitude, I double down and tell her to get the fuck out. When she protests, remain silent and get her out. Let her stew on losing you for a day and when she comes back, you frame it on your terms.

If you are a solid dude, maintain fitness, are providing well for yourself and fuck her properly, she'll come back on your terms. Probably even be happier in that environment.

But if you aren't any of those things, she might be happier without you. Which gives you something to work on for the next one you decide to LTR up.

[–]Kalidane 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ultimatums are high risk, and generally degrade your value even if it works.

Better to slap her on the ass and tell her you'll just wait until she's sleeping before you ravage her pussy. Go pour a bourbon in one of them fancy glasses you never really use and fire up the Lethal Weapon DVD. Anything she has to say is responded to with "Shhh baby. It's Lethal Weapon." Try to actually enunciate the capitalisation.

[–]pirateninj4[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

In LTR's high risk is usually necessary. Long periods of acquiescing to poor behavior leads to small changes not making much of a difference.

Think of it like standing in wet cement. The longer you wait, the more dramatic the action required to move.

But yes. In the ideal situation something small and cheeky would work nicely.

[–]Kalidane 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh and if she kinda screws up her face or has a sour look when she hears "ravage your pussy" then it's over. She is past Sahara-dry.

Get a newer model with the "sports" upgrade.

[–]RedSugarPill -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Sometimes not wanting to do the fucking dishes can be legit. But guess what...I still did the fucking dishes every night, and was denied sex for months, until the lazy cunt left me to rawdawg an airline pilot--returning briefly enough to brag about it. Her final zing didn't really work though, because by then I had removed the residue of her nasty cunt from my apartment, and I would have rather fucked Smeagol than her rancid slime mould.

[–]pirateninj4[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Good you got rid of her. Next time, don't do the dishes.

Tell her to do the dishes. When she says no, you say no to her continued presence in your abode.

Any bitch who thinks she's above washing your dishes but is still worth keeping in your house is a bitch who got to go.

[–]RedSugarPill 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, it was over a 3 year LTR, and we were living together in a new state (for both of our careers, decided together, etc..). Went through a micro-divorce, and took a long time to regroup. The best part: At one point, she had a moment of clarity, looked at me and started crying, as she said "I made the biggest mistake of my life." My response was a simple "yes, you did". It was nice that she realized that she destroyed her chance at a perfect life. But, for me, as a man, I dodged a bullet. My married siblings are all miserable with children. I came really close...

[–]pirateninj4[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

In that moment your heart grew a couple of manly inches and you felt the pride of being alone and fucking good about it.

Kudos man.

[–]RedSugarPill 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Couldn't have done it without TRP. I luckily stumbled across this site when I was trying to fix that relationship--saved my life.

[–]rRaptorJesus -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

You did good by remaining calm and avoiding any verbal discussion about it. By verbally acknowledging it, no matter how well you "hold frame" or whatever, you subtly tell her that she has power over your mental state by withholding sex.

Female orgasm causes large amounts of oxycontin (aka love hormone), and in reality withholding sex should hurt her more than you. She subtly knows this, but wants to believe it outright by shit testing you to make sure that you don't "need" it more than her.

I like the idea of running some light dread... go hang out at a bar with your bros, start lifting some if you're not already; generally show that you have better things to do than spend any time on worrying about why she withheld. Abundance mentality. Sex is something she needs from you to feel secure, not the other way around.

[–]Kalidane 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reminds of a delusional single mother I was playing with.

She liked to seem willful and at one point said something along the lines of "You should be careful or you'll have no one". Strong projection/revelation. That notion actually inspired me to spend the winter in monk mode building a business. I would thank her but I doubt she'd understand...

The day she went on and on about asking her mate to come over and give her a clit piercing marked the final countdown on that one. "It's free!" she said giddily. ROFL