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New Study to Determine If Asian-White Marriages Mean Greater Assimilation & Acceptance (asamnews.com)

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[–]tamallamaluvpadawan 58ポイント59ポイント  (8子コメント)

Can sympathize with not wanting to marry a misogynistic douchebag but that should just mean to be more wary of ALL men. If ppl are going to be attributing Asian men to footbinding attitudes then they should be attributing white men to colonial, slave owner attitudes as well. Ugh.

[–]asiantemp 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

You win a million dollars

[–]TheWallClock 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Preach!

[–]makneegrows -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

ma chigga

[–]MsNewKicks애교 44ポイント45ポイント  (104子コメント)

“Some Asian women I interview say they aren’t interested in Asian men, but are more interested in White men because they’re not like their fathers,” said Ly. “Whatever they’ve seen in their families or have observed in other Asian American families, they are not interested in seeing that in their own families. They mention chauvinism, patriarchy, sort of large discrepancies in gender power in the household. It’s sort of ideas they have about Asian men. They sort of look to White men because they’ll have a different experience with them.”

Just...ugh. I've tried to type my thoughts here but I've literally gone back and deleted it each time. "Ugh" is about the essence of it.

[–]asiantemp 37ポイント38ポイント  (7子コメント)

"Ugh" is about the essence of it.

Moral of the story: Only Asian American women can adapt and change, while Asian American men are stuck being their fathers and grandfathers for all eternity.

[–]PopePaulFarmerperpetual feminist 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

I mean, I am definitely going out of my way to not date my mom and the times I have gone on dates with a woman (regardless of their race) who shared some of the same behaviors that my mom does it super weirded me out and turned me right off

unfortunately, the times when it was a Chinese-American woman really heightened the weirdness. partially that's my bias, partially I want to say that's because I see like maybe one Chinese person for every 500 billion white people I see so I've probably unconsciously associated that phenotype with a set of behaviors

racist? yes. working on it? definitely. is this really hard to do in the midst of a coffee date? you tell me

[–]asiantemp 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

I understand where this mindset comes from. Can't say that I've always been free of it myself.

My frustration is that these women, who are now mature adults, still apparently haven't had that "A-ha!" moment when they are forced to realize that their attitudes are bullshit.

The main difference between Asian American guys and girls is not that one group of more self-hating or anything. I think we're both guilty of that in more or less equal parts, at least when we're young.

But the difference emerges as we get older, Asian American guys are forced to confront our internalized racism because isolating ourselves from other Asians, especially Asian women, cuts us off from social sustenance. This can happen as early as, say, junior high or maybe even middle school.

In contrast, many Asian American women don't necessarily have that "rude awakening" moment as often or as early because White society is more than happy to accommodate their internalized racism.

I just wish we could make our experiences more equal so there wouldn't be as wide a gulf in our experiences.

[–]PopePaulFarmerperpetual feminist 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

if it's any consolation, the vast majority of people I've encountered in my day-to-day are not free of a lot of harmful and irrational bullshit. the silver lining to this is that running into people who are is always a good experience and I tend to assume good faith here

as for being cut off, I dunno. I went to college in the midwest and now I'm hanging out in Atlanta. of the friends I've made, some of them are AAPIs, some of those AAPIs are women. Tinder is like 50% AAPI women for me right now and a lot of these women are obviously consciously choosing to interact with me despite my shitty pictures

anyway, long story short, if any of ya'll want tinder advice, I'm available ALL DAY, act now or forever miss the opportunity to talk to the love of your life, just kidding, true love is bullshit, love is hard ass work that is extremely worthwhile

[–]backslashbunny 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know it's weird but my partner shares a lot of traits with my dad, and I don't have a problem with it at all. I have a pretty good relationship with my parents though, and my dad and mom have a strong marriage, so..

[–]draekia 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Eventually you'll realize you're attracted to these women because they are similar to you and you have similar traits to your mother.

You'll also likely see people with similar traits to your father, as you are similar to him.

People tend to date people who are similar to themselves, thus, similar to their parents. Get over it and maybe you'll find someone who is worth being with regardless.

[–]PopePaulFarmerperpetual feminist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've been in a longterm relationship with someone I love a lot who is absolutely not like my mother but thanks for the advice, I guess

[–]draekia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh, it's actually more a "has common traits/behaviors that you share with your parents that make you compatible" kind of thing.

But yah, congrats?

[–]cartwheel_123 17ポイント18ポイント  (79子コメント)

Interesting how there are no other men besides Asian and White men? What happened to all of the black and latino men?

[–]MsNewKicks애교 25ポイント26ポイント  (67子コメント)

I think that debunks the whole "I just don't want to marry my father" excuse otherwise, as you menion, Asian women would be going for everything other than Asian men.

[–]araq1579 11ポイント12ポイント  (8子コメント)

fuck it. I'll bite the bullet. I'm one of those self-hating asian women who refuses to marry "their father."

Except I'm a filipino american man who has vowed to never marry a filipina woman.

I guess a lot of it has to do with the abuse I went through as a kid.

I was raised by a single mom who abused me, and I hold a lot of resentment against my mom.

I know it's irrational, stupid, and backwards thinking, but I can relate to these asian women who have "sold out."

They attribute their abusive, controlling asian fathers as a template for all asian men because that's all they know.

Just like me, even though I know not all filipina women are controlling and abusive, but from all that childhood trauma and abuse, it's really a difficult mindset to shake off.

[–]xin05 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sympathetic to you man. I can't claim to understand what you've been through, but I'm definitely not playing down your pain.

Having said that - as a person of color shouldn't we be especially sensitive to unjustly attributing negative experiences to entire groups of people? We know better than anyone what it feels like to have our individuality stripped away and be forcibly associated with the actions of others, all because we happen to check the same box on the census.

I'm actually impressed that you posted this, at least you're aware of how messed up it is. Many of us don't even make it that far.

[–]asiantemp 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think honesty is the key concept here. I myself will admit to once feeling that being with an Asian girl meant that I'd eventually end up just like my parents. If hot blonde girls fetishized guys like me, maybe I would've kept myself willfully ignorant.

But it's one thing for some Asian women to admit that they're prejudiced and resign themselves to their biases. It's another thing for them to try to justify their prejudices by claiming that we Asian American guys indeed are backwards and deserving of our stereotypes.

[–]bloodfoxtrueABCV 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This makes me sad to hear :(

I think there are definitely some nice Filipina girls out there, but I can't blame you from wanting to see what else is out there.

[–]svsm 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I refuse to date anyone similar to my mum as well. She knows it too. She's controlling, hard to get along with, and extremely pushy. I could generalise this as an Asian female trait, but the fact I have Aunties, family friends, and most importantly, I hang out freely with Western-born and international born Asians my age, means I realise my mum is not all Asian women.

I honestly think the media has perpetrated this idea of what races are like, with minorities getting the most consistently negative portrayals. We then associate only what we notice fits into that mold in some sort of sick confirmation bias. If someone displays a different behaviour, they're conveniently "not Asian" as a backhanded compliment, instead of altering our world views.

[–]cartwheel_123 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's absolutely media portrayal. It's the same way that well-spoken black guys are accused of trying to act "white" which is insulting.

[–]MsNewKicks애교 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for sharing. I'm sorry you went through that and I can understand why you'd feel that way. In your case and any case where there is abuse, I can understand that mindset. Each time I've eaten raw oysters, I've gotten sick. Will that be the case each time? Probably not but my brain just says "NO" when I see oysters. Totally not the same but I hope people get it.

Are the majority like you? Who knows.

[–]metsukenpugilist pilgrim 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for being so vulnerable here. It takes a lot of bravery to share what you did.

There isn't much I can say except that I wish the best for you and hope you've found healing, and if not, that it will come soon. I've received my share of domestic abuse as well as bullying from all sides. White kids would call me chink and gook, and when more fellow Koreans began moving into my area, none of them hung out with me because they thought I was a whitewashed twinkie.

So if it's any comfort, your story is not unique and you are not alone. Forgive me if I'm speaking out of line, but it seems by recognizing the link between your refusal to marry a Filipina and the resentment you hold against your mother, you've already taken the first step towards healing.

[–]dirthawker0 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

They attribute their abusive, controlling asian fathers as a template for all asian men because that's all they know.

For me this is quite true. I wouldn't put my dad at the extreme end of abusive/controlling -- he was a really good father in most ways -- but he definitely had some spoiled-child behavior at times and he expected his kids to obey unquestioningly. My maternal uncle was reclusive, racist, very shouty, and physically abusive to his kids.

Those were pretty much all the Asian males I knew growing up. I didn't get to know my extended family until much, much later because they lived a few thousand miles away. The very few other Chinese fathers in the area seemed to be quite like my own, their kids seemed meek and were into studying; me, not so much. (In 5th grade I got into a fistfight with a boy after school and ended up giving him a bloody nose O_o)

In my 20s I recall consciously thinking I did not want to be with someone like my parents (either one). Asian was not really off the list; in my teens I did date a Japanese boy a few times. He was very chill and a nice guy. (My dad would have lost his shit if he knew we were actually dating rather than just friends; he hated the Japanese for their actions in China, which had caused the death of his father.) However, my town was nearly all white, and if that's all you see...

And it really irks me when certain people here call me a self-hating Asian. If I hate myself for anything it's for having been born female.

[–]bleeetiso 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not asian but the poster /u/asiantemp has said a beautiful quote in another thread that talks about that reply all podcast "the fever".

They don't want to talk about finding a non white date

"because that would reveal some uncomfortable truths."

[–]draekia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Likely just a control factor. Too many variables would make the study a lot harder to understand as well as muddy up their results. The goal was to see if the marriages meant better assimilation into the dominant culture.

[–]ngxp 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

While I’ll never accuse a female friend of internalized racism for dating white men (I mean, who wants to have that conversation), this is definitely one of those can’t miss red-flags. On the other hand, as a guy who’s dated various different ethnicities of women I can tell you once you put yourself outside of the Asian and White pool there’s a lot of interested POC women. On the gripping hand, get used to hearing “I’ve always been interested in Asian men…” and way too much going on about random Chinese/Korean/Japanese idol or whatever. Which is its own bag of worms.

[–]cartwheel_123 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's more about holding all races of men to the same standards (looks, income etc.). Don't date poor white guys, but then ignore poor Indian/Arab/Black guys. Things like that. I'm South Asian, so any girl who's interested is at the individual level.

[–]futuregoat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, this is what I have been saying for a long time. People say this is a AM issue but I think it's more of a male POC issue. If all those girls were dating anyone but AMs then sure I agree it's a AM issue. But those girls aren't doing that. They are exclusively dating WM and making up a whole variety of excuses as to why all their past bfs are white.

[–]iworkwithbirds 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

You know, that's a great point you bring up that I never really considered. I think I will have to put more blame on white supremacy next time some toxic, Asian-White interracial dating thread pops up.

That said, I do think there is some male chauvinism in the Asian American men community that turns away Asian American women. Take, for example, the case of Levy Tran (the Vietnamese girl who starred in that music video that exoticized Asian women). A lot of the comments were directed towards the actress and criticized her decision to be in the video, rather than the social system and media apparatus that limits the opportunities of Asian women and relegates them into those roles. In the same vein, every time an Asian American man puts the onus on Asian women to "date within their race" in order to fight white supremacy and racism or whatever, I see it as a form of entitlement that Asian men think they have over Asian women and their lives, choices, and bodies. Instead, Asian American men should be working to 1) dismantle white supremacy and 2) fixing the sexism present in the Asian American community. Evidently, the task we are assigned is gargantuan and abstract, but that is what must be done.

As a side note, I, for one, would like to see more Asian men like "Louis" rather than "Eddie" (from Fresh Off The Boat).

Edit: Found the name of the actress and music video (Levy Tran, "Asian Girlz")

[–]2ndid 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

??? Levy Tran absolutely needed to be ctiticized and loots of people who criticized her were Asian women. Do you not see Ken Jeong get criticized like crazy by guys here for playing the little asian guy stereotype? So its not like only women get criticized for "selling out"

What if lots of those Asian girls dating White guys uphold white supremacy by idolizing white people? Shouldnt dismantling white supremacy include criticizing such behavior? This dating preference at the demographic level is just a menifestation of idolization of whites and racial insecurity. They cant just deflect accountability when they are doing their part upholding white supremacy.

[–]asiantemp 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

That said, I do think there is some male chauvinism in the Asian American men community that turns away Asian American women. Take, for example, the case of Levy Tran (the Vietnamese girl who starred in that music video that exoticized Asian women).

I agree that we Asian American guys can work on improving our own sexist attitudes.

The problem is when White men are portrayed as the solution to Asian male chauvinism.

You mention the Levy Tran video. You know who CREATED that video, right? A bunch of White guys. Yet there are some people who'd place more burden on the Asian American guys who commented on the video, rather than the most guilty party: the White guys who made the video and who commonly harbor the "Yellow Fever" attitude that's exemplified in the video.

Criticism of Asian male sexism would be more evenhanded if it didn't go hand-in-hand with turning a willful blind eye to the transgressions of White men.

[–]iworkwithbirds 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, I know it was a bunch of White men who created that video. Nobody is giving White men a pass. Pointing out the sexism that Asian American men exhibit does not mean turning a willful blind eye to the transgressions of White men.

What we must do, however, is figure the social reality that Asian women face. Each woman has (hopefully) several options for suitors. Suitor A is white, has yellow fever, and refers to her as a "beautiful, Oriental flower," so obviously that's a no go. Suitor B is Chinese and is the son of friend of a family friend; he keeps talking about the crazy parties and drunk nights he's had, so that's a no go as well. Suitor C is very amiable, fun, and witty Japanese guy, but her parents hate him because he's Japanese. Suitor D is a pretty nice Chinese guy, but his parents are expecting her to give up her career and stay at home to raise the 2-3 kids. Suitor E is a TRPer. Suitor F is Swedish, and while he does have the occasional racist slip-ups and cultural faux pas-es, he is respectful enough of her background, culture and identity; her parents, while not completely thrilled he's not Chinese, are grateful he's not Japanese; he's willing to take time off of work to raise the kids, and both sets of parents are polite enough to their future in-laws; oh, and she's over 30 so her biological clock is ticking (I'm much more specific with this one because it's literally one of my friends).

Every woman who makes the choice to date a White man and gain what she can in that relationship, makes a choice to give up parts of her life as well. Every romantic relationship we enter we gain some things, and are forced to give some things--we just have to decide what we are willing to part with, and for what.

[–]cartwheel_123 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have to disagree with parts of what you're saying. Why do black and latina women not turn away from their men the way asian women do. Are you suggesting that they are less chauvinistic? Asian men have the lowest rates of violence, rape, single fatherhood etc. so I don't understand where this accusation of chauvinism is coming from. About Louis vs. Eddie, let's remember that it's Eddie who was the inspiration behind this series. While men like Louis might be more comforting, they are not as effective.

[–]iworkwithbirds 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Having met some Black men who would fall into the radical camp of Black politics, I can assure I do not think Black men are less chauvinistic (Black feminism arose partly as a response to that). I think a very simple explanation why Black and Latina women are not turning away from "their" men the way Asian American women do is simply because in the dating and social hierarchy, Asian women are above Black and Latina women (see the OKcupid post on race, gender, and dating); in short, Black and Latina women don't have that option of dating White men. The reason I bring up Louis and Eddie is because I wonder which portrayal of Asian men would Asian American women choose to go into a relationship with.

My accusation of male chauvinism comes from the fact that the conversation places an onus on Asian American women "to date their own race" rather than empowering them to make their own decision that is best for them. It comes from the fact that the girl in that "Asian girls are exotic" music video was criticized for "letting herself be exoticized and objectified"--rather than the White men that were doing the exoticizing and objectifying.

[–]coleus 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

They mention chauvinism, patriarchy, sort of large discrepancies in gender power in the household.

Yes, and some will find quickly that those traits also exist among the white privilege. Funny thing is that some of the very same asian women who argue that position are blind to the perception that much of the white populace makes them to be inferior to white woman, ie they're exotic and submissive. Ultimately those who use the "daddy issues" as an argument are simply hiding the fact that they've been manipulated by popular media to see their own as inferior because they bought into a system which values white men over asian men. I ugh as well.

[–]onefyodor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Puking all over my keyboard right now

[–]Profess1211 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So it's not about 'colour'?

[–]asiantemp 35ポイント36ポイント  (17子コメント)

“Some Asian women I interview say they aren’t interested in Asian men, but are more interested in White men because they’re not like their fathers,” said Ly.

Yes, because a young Asian American man who was born, raised, and socialized in America is exactly the same as a 55-year old Asian immigrant man who grew up under communist or military rule.

[–]holidayshoplifter 14ポイント15ポイント  (9子コメント)

That's exactly what I thought. That along with Asian woman only choosing White guys, and not really any other ethnicities. So really, it's not the daddy issue thing. It's a trendy couple thing.

If we're really honest about this, it just boils down to the fact that White guys have a fetish for Asian girls, and it's super trendy. So some Asian woman just want that 'status symbol' of being good enough for a white man, because it's ... trendy.

[–]bbrown3979 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

The AF youre discussing also clearly have a fetish for WM but you label it simply as a status symbol and them being trendy. Why not just acknowledge it both goes ways?

[–]holidayshoplifter 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are absolutely right, thanks.

[–]asiantemp 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's just plain fact that a minority person generally gets a social status boost when partnering with a White person.

I will be the first to admit that my social status gets boosted when I'm dating a White girl: Asian guys think Da Man, Asian girls are impressed that I can get a girl from the "queen bee" class, and non-Asians know that I'm not some dweeby small-dicked loser.

Let's all be honest here.

[–]konfuc888 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I know exactly what you mean, and it can definitely be easy for that opinion to influence choices that its almost a double standard.

Although I do sometimes question whether that is the same, because I think a lot of that is due to the perceived rarity of amwf relationships and perceived abundance of wmaf relationships.

[–]Provid3nceChinese [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I think a lot of that is due to the perceived rarity of amwf relationships and perceived abundance of wmaf relationships.

Nah. I think if the shoe were on the other foot, us Asian guys would do the exact same thing Asian girls are. Given our environment I think it's just human nature to try to get yourself as much status as possible. It takes a lot of self reflection and understanding to overcome shit like that, not to mention a high degree of acceptance of one's self. I don't think anyone who is genuinely ashamed of their ethnicity will ever have that "eureka" moment.

[–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Nah. I think if the shoe were on the other foot, us Asian guys would do the exact same thing Asian girls are.

I agree.

Of course, this doesn't justify internalized racism on Asian women's part. That logic is not sound because using the counter-factual, you could justify anything ("Well, if Columbus and the settlers were Black, then White people would've been slaves!")

[–]Goat_Porker2nd gen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Excellent counter point, would not have considered that one.

[–]cartwheel_123 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not trendy, just an indication of social status. White men and Asian women have been getting together for decades. Nothing revolutionary about it.

[–]krs--1The Dream 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's just so fucked up. Do they realize other groups don't use this contrived excuse for white supremacy? "I'm not interested in white men because they are like my father" said no white girl ever.

[–]structuralbiologyDREXEL!!!!<3 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Visually there's no difference, and women are more concerned with status for them and their children. There's a lot of research already done where women want to marry into dominant families or groups in order to ensure a better future for their children.

[–]lionspaw2cishet male [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Visually there's no difference

This is the uncomfortable truth. No one honestly cares that Asian American men are raised in America, not Asian American women, not white women, not Asian women in Asia. You are still judged on being an ASIAN first and foremost. Asian Americans do not have the same birthright that white Americans do.

[–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yup. That was the crux of the XOJane article by Jenny An (an excellent and misunderstood article).

Her point was that she wouldn't go out with even the hottest and most Westernized Asian American guy because to others, he'd first and foremost be "Asian" and therefore not really American. In order to exude the image that she wanted, she had to be with a White guy.

Such honesty is refreshing.

[–]Goat_Porker2nd gen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They might as well not perpetuate their genes in that case, as any Asian-looking girls they bear will be fetishized/pressured into marrying white and Asian-looking boys will suffer from the same stereotypes that they perpetuated. It's short term thinking wrapped up in faulty logic.

[–]asiantemp 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I don't buy that "women are more susceptible" line of thinking. How do you explain the IR disparity in the Black community, where it's more likely for the men to buy into internalized racist beliefs about the desirability of White partners over those of their own race?

All minority groups are incentivized to seek inclusion into White society. It's just that certain genders of certain races are given a fast-track to that "promised land," and those groups often eagerly take advantage of it.

[–]tamallamaluvpadawan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ensure a better future for their children.

Short-term, maybe...but definitely not in the long-term. Kinda a cop-out ("if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" attitude).

Also, unless the kid is white-passing...they'll face plenty racism too...and maybe even prejudice from non-mixed Asians...Hapas face many issues too, so it's not necessarily "better" to be hapa than to be full Asian :-/

[–]bucksonderuloHmong 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well, at least with Asian men Asian women won't have to worry about that Yellow Fever bullshit. We'll treat you like just a woman. But on that note, I've met some old White dudes with mail-order brides from Thailand, and it amused me when they revealed their disappointment with their wives not being "submissive" but "crazy, combative" etc. I just laughed and was like "well, no shit. What, you think they'd just listen to you all the time? Nah, fam, us Asian dudes can handle that shit cause of our mothers, you guys on the other hand, hope you learned your fucking lesson."

Then he went on about wanting a wife from the Ukraine cause they'll be more subdued and I'm just like, dirty fuck. You don't want a woman, you want a pet. /rant

[–]tamallamaluvpadawan 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

How can you even marry someone that you don't see as an equal human being? Disgusting.

[–]xin05 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh come on we know the answer to this. You may think marriage is a partnership between equals, but there are many many people who don't want spouses they want pets that can talk. If this weren't true communities like TRP wouldn't have so many members.

[–]asp9000 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

The accusation that Asian society - and by extension all Asian men, including American born and raised Asian-American men (someone please explain that logic) - is some sort of backwards, patriarchal, misogynistic society is ridiculous.

Just take a look: South Korea has a female president right now. Taiwan is set to elect a female president as well. The Philippines had a female president, Indonesia had one... etc. America has had white man followed by white man followed by white man followed by white man for it's entire history... and now, making history - a half white, half black man. But still no woman. Can they explain how such a so-called misogynistic place such as Asia could have so many women in the highest seats of power?

[–]-TroyMcClure [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's funny that growing up I never got these ideas. I grew up in Toronto and pretty much half the city is non-white, even the suburbs. Most of my friends growing up were Sri Lankan, Indian, Greek, Italian or from Hong Kong so I never got some false-ass rhetoric of Asian culture being backwards, I'm Taiwanese btw. My parents are normal and don't hate each other, nor does my dad oppress my mom or some bullshit like that. And my parents are OLD. Like, my dad was born in China before communists took over and fled to Taiwan as a kid. So despite him being a seemingly anachronism of the vestige that is patriarchal Asia, my dad isn't a misogynist, which seems to contrast with the eyebrow-raising high number of all Asians on reddit who claim to have abusive parents where the dad and mom yell and abuse each other. In fact, the stereotype of deadbeat, scumbag father who knocks up a woman and leaves her, or beats his wife in my mind was always white. You see it in movies and TV a lot of the time actually, and is even more reinforced by the trailer trash image. There's an endless list of this, so you can easily google "domestic abuse" tropes and come up with a list of all white people on TV who do it. So why do people only associate "misogynist" Asians dads or "deadbeat black dads" with only those races? It's because white people on TV always have equal representation. Who am I kidding, they have such a surplus of positive representation it always filters out the bad stuff. Oh, "Ed" from the Walking Dead beats the shit out of "Carol" every episode they were in together? He's white, why don't we associate domestic abuse with white people? Because heroic Shane who is also white comes to her rescue a second later, and every other second of that show is Rick and Daryl (white) saving the day, while black guys don't last longer than 5 or so episodes, max.

This is why I'm glad I grew up in a city with a high Asian population. I notice this shit in the media all the time sure, but I didn't have real life experiences to embed some false bullshit confirmation bias that would probably happen in Fucksville, USA where 99% of people are white. People can like or marry whoever they want but to make up false premises for it is pretty despicable. I would feel sorry for the sons of these people, cause if he ends up looking not white he'll be subject to all these stereotypes.

[–]lionspaw2cishet male [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You should also note that China has the highest number of self made female billionaires of any country:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/business/international/how-zhou-qunfei-a-chinese-billionaire-built-her-fortune.html

These are all uncomfortable truths that America, white people, and Asian Americans who have bought into white supremacy would rather gloss over.

[–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think you can use a female president to automatically declare that sexism is not an issue in that country.

That's pretty much conservatives do with Obama: "How can there be racism in America when there's a Black POTUS?!"

[–]6e656f6e66757a 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

no but white is "best" white is equality even if white president is voted one after the other

[–]Nadasbody 11ポイント12ポイント  (8子コメント)

Because all Asian men are the same right? So reject every Asian men because chauvinism.

Guess who are the most progressive, pro-diversity group? Young Asians.

[–]johnlongestFilipino-Chinese 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can I get a source for the latter assessment? I've never heard it before and would like proof if I ever want to bring it up in the future.

[–]disposable_me_0001 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Women rarely give a straight, honest answer when it comes to matters like this. Asian women are no different.

As a woman what she likes in a guy. "I want someone smart, nice, and considerate, and a sense of humor." Wrong, they want someone hot and assertive and with social status. But they aren't going to say that because they are keenly aware of their own appearance. Don't fall into the trap thinking somehow asian women are especially bad or something.

[–]xin05 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea man as soon as we start down the "we know what you really want" rabbit hole it's a real short trip to patriarch town. Us guys want to be taken at our word, I believe we should extend the same courtesy to the ladies.

[–]asiantemp 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, well guys say they want a nice girl with a cool personality. They won't openly say that they want a sex goddess who'll massage their ego all the time.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]Nadasbody -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Literally fighting any oppression, fascism and racism at the same time.

    [–]2ndid 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Honestly, Im just so dissapointed and frustrated to see comments stereotyping Asian men as old fashioned chauvinist. Why is it that Asian women are so vocal against being stereotyped, yet, they so readily stereotype Asian men? Do you really have Asian friends in real life? Do you realize Asian men do not live in the 60's? I didnt even know Asian men had a stereotype of being sexiest in America until I started reading in this forum. Thank god, I have some well adjusted Asian female friends in real life.

    [–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Why is it that Asian women are so vocal against being stereotyped, yet, they so readily stereotype Asian men?

    We're all hypocrites. We should always be trying to improve ourselves and call out those who are guilty. But we all have flaws. For example, Asian guys complain about being ignored by White girls but we often ignore Black or Hispanic girls.

    Asian Americans can often move up socially by stepping on each other. Many of us can't resist doing this if given the chance.

    That's why we have to keep ourselves and each other honest.

    [–]2ndid 11ポイント12ポイント  (21子コメント)

    Is growing up in Asian American household that traumatizing for women to a degree they will have such a severe level of daddy issue?

    My family moved to the us in the early 2000s. My dad says "I love you" the most in my family. He constantly says that to my mom and us (me and my sister). He also cooks and makes snacks all the time. Hes generally a funny goofball. Growing up, I was told by my family I gotta know what to do in the kitchen and do house chores, because, if not, no korean women will want me. Ive been told the same by my 80 yr old grandma as well. I never really thought my family is an outlier. My little sister doesnt seem to be traumatized by my father at all.

    [–]Goat_Porker2nd gen 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

    The American media also shapes Asian women's perceptions of beauty and success. Hell, I consider it progressive that Fresh Off the Boat has an Asian Man-Asian Women pairing as the main characters - how fucked up is that.

    In short, no, I do not think parenting is the main or even secondary cause of this phenomenon.

    [–]2ndid 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yea honestly you are most likely right. I wish Asian women wouldnt throw Asian men under the bus just to use as an excuse for seeking out white guys, just because they dont wanna be judged on their internalized racism.

    [–]Goat_Porker2nd gen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Both sides have some bad blood at this point - you can see it at work in this sub's relationship with A2X and AM. I wish all the throwing under the bus would cease, but it's a long process and I think it starts with a dismantling of a media system that pits us against each other.

    [–]asp9000 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hell, I consider it progressive that Fresh Off the Boat has an Asian Man-Asian Women pairing as the main characters - how fucked up is that.

    And in real life the actor playing the dad is married to an Asian woman while the actress playing the mom is dating a white guy.

    [–]tamallamaluvpadawan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Agree with the first part. You know, when I watched that episode about the mom's ex coming over, I was SO surprised he wasn't white...I pretty much see AFWM as the norm over AMAF thanks to American media and how often I see young couples of the former rather than the latter.

    [–]asiantemp 10ポイント11ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Lots of Chinese, Korean, and Vietnamese American families likely immigrated during turbulent times back home. Thus, the parents may have more of a "survivor" mindset that comes across as harsh and joyless to Americanized children.

    If your family immigrated in the 2000s, it was probably under more pleasant circumstances.

    [–]cartwheel_123 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

    You can say the same thing about Middle Eastern and African refugees yet those women don't seem to be traumatized.

    [–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

    I have a feeling that those dialogues are more internal and within their community. In contrast, complaints about Asian sexism are often made with an eye to appealing to a White audience.

    Middle Eastern and African women may also be less willing to tell their stories with White people because there's no army of receptive White male listeners who think, "Let me save you, my Nubian/Muslim princess!"

    If anything, any complaints about African or Muslim cultures tend to be used by White men to justify bombing those countries.

    [–]cartwheel_123 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Why are asians so concerned with appealing to white audiences? What good has that done?

    [–]asiantemp [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    It has elevated us to Model Minority status. Asian Americans look at Blacks and Latinos and think, 'Whew, at least we're not them.'

    [–]cartwheel_123 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I see your point though Asian Americans should recognize that it takes just one event to destroy that model minority myth (i.e. 9/11 for all brown people).

    [–]tamallamaluvpadawan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I feel like a lot of it also has to do with connection to the culture. Like, anyone else notice how sooooo many SE/East Asians have Anglicized names vs immigrant kids of other ethnicities?

    [–]redditors_are_racist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    You can say the same thing about Middle Eastern and African refugees yet those women don't seem to be traumatized.

    Regardless of trauma or no trauma brown/black skinned women aren't fetishized the same way asian women are. The outlet there of marrying away your black or browness doesn't exist as readily as it does for asian women.

    [–]Coolfuckingname -3ポイント-2ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Sounds like fantastic men, but that is NOT normal in my experience.

    [–]xin05 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Out of curiosity, since you seem to be a white male, what is your outsider's experience on Asian men? If being fantastic as you describe it is not normal, please tell us what you consider normal.

    [–]Coolfuckingname [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Ive seen all kinds of asian men. My best friend for the last 20 years is chinese american and a wonderful but troubled person. I attribute that half to genetics and half to a troubled Hawaiian born mom. I love him more than my own brother, but he's a challenge for women to date despite being 6 foot 2, good looking like a model, and smart as hell. He's just got some qualities that make women think twice about dating him.

    Another best friend since i was 5, and also first college roommate, is chinese american and ended up marrying a euro/white girl. They eventually had a very cute child together and she cheated on him and they divorced. Terrible woman. Anyway, he's incredibly funny and engaging, but treated himself like crap physically until he took up kungfu seriously and began teaching. I admire him.

    I believe parenting styles determine cultural traits. Im a subscriber to /r/asianparentstories among others and the stories i read match the experiences I've had with asian parents. There are many good reliable asian parent stories (not on reddit but in real life), but there are so many terrible asian parenting stories its a cliche. I think that pushing/demanding/empathy-less near abusive parenting can and does break kids, both male and female. I think girls have it easier as women can just be cute and get a guy (even when broken inside) whereas men must work hard to get and keep a girl. I think many male asian american children grow up semi broken, pushed to achieve externally while neglecting themselves internally, and to some extent reject the model of manhood their fathers were. Once you reject the model you have, you're left somewhat rudderless in the world. I know i was.

    Ive known many asian guys like this, who dont quite know who to be. Do they follow their dads and be hardworking but emotionally cut off, or worse, be abusive? Or do they follow the euro/white model and try and be action heroes and players? Or do they follow their hearts and pick and choose qualities they admire and find useful? Its tough to choose, and i know because i did the same with my own immigrant father.

    I guess what I'm saying is that being the male son of an immigrant father is tough, especially when that parent has tough near abusive parenting "skills". I see asian guys carrying the weight of this around, without the luxury of having boobs to fall back on, so to speak.

    Im sure this answer is too sweeping and general and will be seen as racist or stupid, but its my honest if short answer. I welcome positive feedback or ideas. Ive spent countless hours thinking about race and asian culture and why asian guys have it, seemingly, rougher in america. This is what i came up with but I'm always willing to entertain other thoughts.

    I answered your question as sincerely as i can. Feel free to share. Thanks.

    [–]Goat_Porker2nd gen [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

    Sounds like fantastic men, but that is NOT normal in my experience.

    And as a white male you're one to say what's normal for Asian males because...?

    [–]Coolfuckingname [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    ...because my best friend for 20 years is an asian male, as have been half my friends in life, and most of my roommates, and my girlfriends brothers, and fathers, and friends, and people I've known as more casual friends and teachers, and and and...

    Asians are about 25% of the population where i live. I think my experiences are more than slightly representative.

    Thanks for asking!

    [–]onefyodor [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Lol white boi. Just lol

    [–]Coolfuckingname [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Yeah...that racist insult doesnt actually add anything, nor does it bother me. Feel free to write when you grow up and have something positive to contribute.

    [–]TexasianTexan 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I wonder how much of the difference between Chinese/Japanese rates vs Indian rates is due to arranged marriages amongst the latter community.

    Also, am I the only person here who grew up with well-adjusted non horribly chauvinistic parents who love each other?

    [–]gjchen34 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think it's also just because white men with east asian fetishes simply hit on east asian women 33x more often than they hit on South Asian.

    [–]cartwheel_123 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Religion is probably an even bigger reason. Also, the fact that there is not as wide a gender divide in desirability among Indians as there is among East and SE Asians. Indian men/women are both considered relatively unattractive which is not the case for Asian men/women.

    [–]asp9000 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    This always thoroughly perplexed me because I think being Asian-American is a unique shared experience that can only be found between Asian Americans. Wouldn't people want to date someone that "gets it" and went through similar challenges? Isn't there a sense of camaraderie and unique identity that emerges from this? Yet somehow, something else - who knows what - consistently overrides all of this and renders this unique shared experience irrelevant.

    [–]lionspaw2cishet male [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I don't think Asian American men and Asian American women have similar experiences in America though, they are actually quite opposite experiences. The men are demonized and otherized, while the women are fetishized and encouraged to assimilate fully.

    [–]Gcubed3 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This shared experience is something I've been looking for all my life and my biggest fear is that there are probably only a handful of Asian American women who will truly understand this. Many of them don't want to speak out against this privilege because they are not as adversely affected as Asian males. Why would they give up the "honorary white card" status, for us?

    This is the source of bitterness that plagues the AM community and it's easy to point fingers at who is responsible.

    [–]disposable_me_0001 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you divide up the group in question into gender, you'll get a much clearer and meaningful answer.

    Women are apparently assimilating just swimmingly, provided they tow the line and play the part.

    Men, not so much, and probably de-assimilate their white gfs to a certain degree.

    [–]Blow-Papa-Smurf 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I live in Norcal,and sometimes i forget that my asian American husband and my marriage is still weird to lot's of people.

    [–]jusayinman 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    'Course it means greater assimilation and acceptance. Marrying a white guy is literally a ticket out of being Asian for some people. Can't get much better than going from Jane Wu to Jane Smith. If you don't look in the mirror you might even convince yourself.

    [–]yaboproductionseast coast Taiwanese 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Didn't see much in regards to Asian man/white woman marriages...

    [–]bucksonderuloHmong 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

    In my personal experience, women assimilate easier. Hmong culture dictates that daughter-in-laws and son-in-laws have certain responsibility to their inlaws. A lot of White and Hispanic chicks that my cousins are married to actually try to fulfill these roles whereas the White dudes married ro my girl cousins have complete disdain for the Hmong culture. But that's anecdotal, take it with a grain of MSG.

    [–]xin05 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    White dudes married ro my girl cousins have complete disdain for the Hmong culture. But that's anecdotal, take it with a grain of MSG.

    You are not alone in observing this phenomenon unfortunately.

    [–]ironforger52 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    That is really sad

    [–]moomoomilky1Asian north american [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    do they treat the inlaw family like shit?

    [–]bucksonderuloHmong [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I wouldn't know behind closed doors, but there's generally an awkwardness between them, like they have to accept each others presence lol.

    [–]allhailkodosSouth Asian-American 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    New Study to Reprove America is White Supremacist

    Got it.

    [–]edgie168 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Can the aZn TERPs please stop brigading certain people in this sub? While I realize this sub doesn't have a rule about how "downvoting should not be used for disagreement", but c'mon.

    [–]LowCarbs 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Wait I don't see anything TERP related here. Like legit, what are you talking about

    [–]edgie168 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I'm not gonna mention any particular subreddit, but they cross pollinate here, and it shows in the downvotes with certain people who frequent this sub in general.

    [–]LowCarbs 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Okay, yeah, I've noticed that this sub has some... interesting views on politics and society. I just figured it was a reddit demographic specific thing.

    [–]Goat_Porker2nd gen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    My other comment got deleted, so I'll paraphrase. I'm a member of the other sub, I enjoy their discussions/community. I've also been a member of /r/AA for 4 years - longer than half of the mods on staff. I contribute content and vote here so that my voice (and 5k+ voices like mine) are represented in this discourse.