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Is Pro-Gamergate more of a coalition of geeks than JUST gamers? (self.KotakuInAction)

uc9there が 投稿

It's just a opinion here, but for the past year there hasn't been as much fighting between specific geek groups as there used to be; is it just me or am I crazy? What I mean by this is that back before gamergate happened me and my friends would constantly argue about such and such and since gamergate has happened we argue more about sjw/aGG and how much everyone hates them.

If it's not just me then I think the reason why this is because sjw/aGG have declared culture wars on every geek group imaginable from video games to comic books to even geek fandoms that I'm legitimately surprised that sjw even know about like SCP or Night Vale or such.

I don't doubt that there's still drama going on with fandoms fighting each other still, rather it seems as though everyone that sjw have declared culture war on seem to have realized that sjw are the universal threat to all geek groups. Yeah video games is our common main flag we unite under but a lot of people are uniting under gamergate to protect other fandoms and such as well. Basically nothing unites people like a common enemy.

To illustrate my point sound off on what "fandoms" or such you're a member of also besides just video games and if aGG/sjw have tried to attack it the last year then go ahead and tell us what shit they tried to pull.

An example of what I mean by this is that occasionally I do watch anime, sjw a while back declared that watching anime was "cultural appropriation" and such.

Tl:dr; are geek groups arguing more about sjw and aGG now than how in the past they used to argue about each other?

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[–][deleted] 24ポイント25ポイント  (25子コメント)

SJW's are attacking all the things that are considered "geeky" that's for sure. They've attacked Anime here is one on them saying the term Waifu is sexist and racist from early on in Gamergate

http://oi58.tinypic.com/2dr789h.jpg

They are certainly attacking comic books and Table Top gaming. Now they've infiltrated video games. I'm not really a member of any fandom other than being a "hardcore" gamer. I'm certainly interested in science fiction though and we know about what's going on there and how the sad puppies are fighting back.

[–]Non-negotiable 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

SJW's are attacking all the things that are considered "geeky" problematic that's for sure.

FTFY

It's no longer about geeks vs. SJWs but about those who believe in freedom of speech/expression/thought vs. SJWS.

[–]Neo_Techni 9ポイント10ポイント  (18子コメント)

Exactly. They're going after anything they perceive as being masculine, without getting how sexist that is.

They've gone after:
-anime
-metal music
-my little ponies (they felt men shouldn't be allowed to like it)
-comic books
-movies
the list goes on

[–]BLloyd607502 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's not even that really.

It's anything they perceive as masculine outside the acceptable standards of society, basically they're hunting what they see as the weak lambs on the edge of the herd, they know no one will stand up for 'nerd shit' that isn't actually really passionate about it and its so easy to get the people in charge on their side. You'd never see them attacking say, football or rap, or anything similar, not until they've gotten much stronger and already torn the throats out of all the niche hobbies.

[–]StJimmy92 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

They've complained about football and rap too, they just never gain enough traction to go anywhere with it.

[–]continous 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Which is sort of his point. They're not mobilizing any sort of 'force' against football or rap, only against smaller, easier to target things.

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

easier to target things

Nerds are supposed to get bullied without pushing back!

[–]continous 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not even that; it's that no one really comes to the defense of nerds. But being the near-sighted fools they are, they forgot nerds have been constantly under fire.

[–]Tallim 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

my little ponies (they felt men shouldn't be allowed to like it)

This always annoys me. "Breaking down gender roles" is not acceptable when men do it obviously.

[–]Neo_Techni 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which is ironically what they've been demanding.

[–]LamaofTrauma 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know man, how can you attack ponies and still somehow pretend to have a moral highground? "OMG! These guys are watching a show that preaches love and tolerance! We must stop this! How dare men do exactly what we want them to!"

You'd think they'd absolutely love people watching that shit.

[–]Neo_Techni 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly

[–]shoryusatsu999 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't see the good in anything. They only see problems that must be solved. Preferably by shaming the creators into changing.

[–]todiwan 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

As an original brony, they haven't actually gone after MLP, they just bitched about it but never tried to co-opt it. There is a single prominent SJW in the fandom and they're extremely controversial and not taken seriously (yet they manage to involve themselves with a lot of important people like voice actors, classic SJW strategy). They're also known in the fandom as a fraud who screwed up the first Bronycon and ran away with the money or something - I forget the exact details, it's been a while. She's also a self-proclaimed feminist.

Interesting, I just went over her Twitter and she honestly isn't nearly as bad as most SJWs. I'm not sure if I should be posting this but it's not like a lot of people will see this, much less send anything nasty, so here: https://twitter.com/prpltnkr

EDIT: Hm, I tweeted at her (a positive tweet towards her support of Bernie Sanders) and she straight up said she's against social justice (the movement), yet she shit talked GamerGate, supported BLM and declares herself feminist (though so did I until like a few months ago), not to mention all the times when she overly dramatically played the victim and all the allegations about pulling an Anita.

EDIT 2: After a couple of days of correspondence, she has indeed proven herself to be the EXACT SAME FANATICAL, VICTIM-BLAMING HYPOCRITE as every single SJW. Every single time, they will expose themselves. A crazy person can never hide their crazy for long.

[–]uc9there[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

There was the purpletinker fiasco, but that was more of sjw trying to burn down the brony fandom than anything.

[–]Neo_Techni -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kotaku put out some articles shaming bronies, to the point where penny arcade complained about it

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2013/07/penny-arcades-anti-nerd-shaming-article.html?m=1

[–]perriwing 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

my little ponies (they felt men shouldn't be allowed to like it)

Do you happen t have an archive or link for this argument?

I want to see how they argue why people shouldn't be allowed to like something.

[–]slimthigh 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

What they say about mai waifu?

[–]RavenscroftRaven 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

Gaming is huge. Everyone games. It's bigger than movies. Bigger than TV.

The various subfactions of gamers... The weebs, the squeebs, the waifufags, the brogamers, the programmers, the fighting gamers, the casuals, the fan-made gamers (which have their own subfactions!)...

They all interfight. Homosuck hates on the ponyfags hates on the dotrash tryhards hates on the genwunners hates on the hipsters. The internet is a hate machine, that's what it does. People like to have their fun little spats in a safe environment where you can just step away from the keyboard if you get hot under the collar. Everyone's equal: Everyone is shitty. And everyone knows it. You'll defend your waifu and your ships, I'll bring a cannon to your headcanon, you'll insult me, we both rage, then we feel better about having the emotional output and go on our merry ways.

Someone wants to throw a wrench in an established ecosystem. They want to bring sewer rats to Australia. And all the overseers of the environment were going "yeah, sewer rats would fit right in, just dump them in. Heck, kill off a few native predator species just to make sure they can establish themselves safely".

And though we abuse the poem (and thus Godwin's Law) almost daily...

In Gaming, they came first for the toxic shitlords, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a toxic shitlord; And then they came for the waifu worshippers, And I fuckin' spoke up because I can tell a slippery slope when I see one.

Take away a game or two, no one really minds. Oh well, no more cigars in the MOBAs, can't corrupt the youth now, can we? Oh, you're equating sexy with sexist, and then marking down a game (which in turn hits dev wages) because you get uncomfortable by your erection? Fuck all y'all.

It's not geeks. It's not nerds. It's that gamers are such a huge quantity, they have both, and they've been taught to see tropes. And cult takeovers are a popular trope for villains in our games. And so are greedy politicians. And two-faced liars. And mercenary con-men.

[–]Joss_Muex 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

The various subfactions of gamers... The weebs, the squeebs, the waifufags, the brogamers, the programmers, the fighting gamers, the casuals, the fan-made gamers (which have their own subfactions!)...

Gaming in some sense resembles Francis Fukuyama's description of a "Tribal society", one of the earliest -- and still extant -- forms of human society in his book "On the Origins of Political Order". Tribal societies attitudes to conflict/co-operation are typified by the Arab saying "Me against my brother, me and my brother against my cousin, me and my cousin against the stranger.”"

I think it would be interesting to examine the various models of society Fukuyama presents and try to see which of them applies to modern media narrative spinners and cultural crusaders.

[–]Fraidnot 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Francis Fukuyama is brilliant but I don't know if you can really apply his models to gaming specifically because of it's leaderless nature. All of his explanations rely on a ruling elite where I don’t believe gaming really has people that fit that description.

[–]voatthrowaway0 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Every person is his own ruling elite

[–]LanceLiege[🍰] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is why, there will always be a pushback against anything of this level of authoritarianism.

[–]RavenscroftRaven 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is indeed fascinating. It's very basic, a simplified form of "enemy mine" maybe in gaming's case moreso than cascaded defense, but certainly applicable.

[–]GG_Sunbro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have an up-vote, sir. That was a great snapshot analysis of the current climate. I was going to chime in, but you pretty much nailed it. And it's definitely a slippery slope; I fear for a future where some SJW try-hard has any real power.

[–]Damascene_2014 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tl:dr; are geek groups arguing more about sjw and aGG now than how in the past they used to argue about each other?

Definitely, but taking the psychology of the various geekdoms into account the various reactions are interesting:

PC/Console Gamers are used to the most vilification from society, and have the thickest skins because we have traditionally ragged on each other for fun.

Tabletop gamers are more social, caring about their personal reptuations more since a lot of tabletop games, esp. LARPs become popularity contests, and got infiltrated a lot sooner, so there is almost no pushback.

Comics geeks are a bit similar to tabletop, they are less social on the individual scale but their hobby has been made the most mainstream what with movies and all so they are more social on a broad scale. Comic book writers are putting as much clickbait directly into the comics to trigger everyone with such examples as death of Superman long before clickbait was a thing on the Internet.

So they're used to crappy products and ill treatment and I think there is a lot of churn in comics due to this, I know I don't buy any of that tripe anymore.

TCG geeks pushed back a little, but the attacks they suffered were more subtle and since one or two companies dominate the whole thing they can't do a lot.

Anime is nearly untouchable because Japan gives no fucks, but the U.S. fan translation rings aren't to be trusted.

Sci Fi geeks were fighting back before GG with the Hugos, and are taking notes from us. Old school Asimov etc. fans are pretty intellectual and not swayed by feels as much. I find that correlation of intellectual capability interesting in that they're the only other segment of geekdom with any kind of pushback of note. Gaming is comparable due to PC gaming, coding, modding etc.

[–]theone89944k and /r/Gawker GET 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, because even fitness forums/combat sports are on our side.

[–]StrongStyleFiction 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The battle is becoming cultural authoritarians vs everyone else.

[–]theone89944k and /r/Gawker GET 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

SJW's vs everyone.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nothing unites like a common enemy.

[–]JustABaku 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well consider the following: a lot of gamers are likely to be into at least one other thing that is consider to be part of what the media now labels 'geek culture': tabletop, scifi, anime and the like.

[–]MC-D-DAYO 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think that when it comes to gaming there's a lot of overlap between it and other fandoms. 8 out of 10 gamers also watch Anime and/or read comics. In my experience. When it comes to gaming the fandom fights are within the sub culture itself.

I.E; Console War.

Tho I agree with you that there's less conflict these days between the fandoms. Mostly cos we're all busy fighting someone else.

[–]uc9there[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you ask me people on the internet like to complain; the difference is now geeks in general have something that we can all complain about collectively.

[–]Joss_Muex 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Video games are a shared cultural, no, shared personal experience of geeks across generations and national boundaries. When this important element of geeks lives and to a lesser extent identities was demonized and smeared by the media, it upset a lot of people. Outside of insulting a major nationality, religion, or language, I can't think of another shared human activity which you could choose to attack and provoke as many people as you would by attacking gaming. Soccer maybe. Maybe.

If you imagine geeks as country, the media's attacks on gaming could be likened to an allied nation vigorously campaigning against cat/dog ownership. It may sound silly, but what would become of public opinion of nerd-hipster NATO in such a scenario?

Given the long history of moral panics against video games, the tactics and hysteria being used by the media and culture warriors have -- entirely predictably -- backfired and continue to backfire in a way which has profoundly affected mainstream geek opinion on public discourse for the foreseeable future. Geeks of every stripe will view the media with a new skepticism for years.

[–]centrum5555 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i actually think more of the gamers and GG participants are also the coimicbook or scififans etc that are active on the internet in generall and thus this automatically lead to your observation. (my guess is gaming is just the biggest intersecting set)

[–]2yph0n 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think its mostly everybody that is sick and tire of the professional victim business.

True justice seekers would actively put themselves in every form of debate they can find to spread their message.

But these people won't debate about it because the moment evidence comes into play, their gigs are up.

So in the end, they just carefully select outlets that favors them.

[–]boommicfucker 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tl:dr; are geek groups arguing more about sjw and aGG now than how in the past they used to argue about each other?

Maybe, but it's not the same kind of arguing either. The SJW thing is an actual threat.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this post:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]bgp1845 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you're speaking in generalities i'd say yes. as a rule, definitely not.

gaming and tech shit is only "geeky" hobby i'm into (gaming is so fucking mainstream now though that it's hardly a geeks and nerds thing anymore). i'm not into anime or comics or sci fi or table top or card games...i don't even really enjoy the super hero summer blockbusters other than the dark knight trilogy.

i see SJW's/authoritarians/whatever taking over nerdy hobbies and am sympathetic but i really only "fight" it on the gaming front - because thats the only one i'm a part of. i know virtually nothing about the other stuff.

glad that most of the nerd hobbies didn't put up with it (for the most part). because i can almost guarantee that once they get done with gaming, whether its a "win or lose", they'll start coming after hobbies where the fan bases aren't so vulnerable or peaceful, shit like sports. then it'll get REEEEAAALLLLL interesting.

edit: i looked up night vale and it sounds pretty rad, gonna give it a listen.

[–]Millenia0 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Personally I like card games of all kinds, like Munchkins and MtG but Im an introvert so I dont really play them. It gets me down a few times but nothing too bad.

[–]BobMugabe35 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No.

[–]JysusCryst 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And 'lo, let my confession be lost in this thread that I am:

A hardcore Vidya Gamer (I just put over 12 hrs in World of Tanks cause free Premium. I'm only on reddit cause I needed a break.)

A Tabletop Gamer

A Board Game Geek

A Brony

A Comic Book Geek

An Anime fan (including hentai)

A Sci-fi Nerd (though not as big as others)

Idk guys... am I a special snowflake cause I like just about ALL things geeky/nerdy? I thought it was pretty common that geeks did all the geek things. As such I haven't really heard of any geek culture in-fighting (other than lighthearted quips). Is that really a thing?

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am a gamer (not as much as I used to), but primarily a geek and I got interested in gamergate because I perceived the controversy as an attack against geeks in general.

The attacks against open source communities certainly matter to me since it affects my livelihood, and they seem to be from the same kind of people (if not exactly the same) that are anti-gg.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this discussion:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]ramasule 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

ITS OUR ONLY HOPE, OUR LAST BASTION.