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Incels, 4chan and the Beta Uprising: making sense of one of the Internet’s most-reviled subcultures (washingtonpost.com)

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[–]flaming_douchebag -42ポイント-41ポイント  (27子コメント)

Sounds cruel, but this is what happens when you "empower" nerds.

Once upon a time, these outcasts simply were outcasts. They lived alone. They were sad. It was tragic, but it was self contained.

Then some bleeding heart decided that outcasts shouldn't feel like outcasts, they should know that their feelings mattered, and they were entitled to be happy.

Then, when the REAL WORLD doesn't live up to the to the "you're good enough, smart enough, and dog gone it, people like you" line of bullshit they'd been fed, they lash out.

The difference is, NOW they have enough self respect to think they deserve to take out other people too. They think that their suffering had worth, or value, and that some cosmic, karma bill should be settled. They don't just accept their loneliness as part of life, they've been promised something else by well meaning idiots, and now they're pissed instead of just sad.

THAT is how you get school shooters. By promising losers that someday it'll all work out for them and telling them that, even though they're pretty much total failures at "society," they still have worth and value and deserve to be loved and respected.

If you're told you deserve something, or you're entitled to something, it's only FAIR to seek retribution when it's denied to you.

No one is entitled to respect, or love, or sex, or success. No one has inherent worth (beyond a basic, basic, minimal level) to people who don't already know and love them. The world does not work that way. Promising kids otherwise is setting them up for major, crushing, disappointment when they understand how hopeless things really are and that they've been lied to.

This problem is entirely of our own making. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions," and all that.

[–]vonmonologue 32ポイント33ポイント  (16子コメント)

What? No.

These are not the nerds who have been empowered. The nerds who have been empowered are a bunch of idiot San Francisco hipsters who decided to become nerds the second the video game industry broke a billion dollars. The fucking fedora-wearing goony beard men and neon haired she-twinks who saw Notch become a multi-millionaire off a single indie game.

But they were never not empowered. They're the rich kid johnny-come-lately nerds. The ones who dropped out of an expensive out of state art school to get nose piercings and super-mario tattoos, and get jobs as "Community Managers" at tech startups because they can't be bothered to learn real STEM skills. The kind of idiots who yell "Bazinga" and think watching 'Arrow' on the CW makes you a comic book fan.

4chan is for the nerds who are still cast aside. The weirdos, the autists, the spergs, the smelly kids, the real nerds who have obsessions instead of hobbies.

Nobody tells them they deserve love or respect. Most people tell them they're fucking terrible and that they're everything that's wrong with society. That they're lonely virgin neckbeards and deserve to die alone. That it's understandable why nobody loves them. That their anime girlfriends are the only girlfriends they'll ever have.

You want to know why 4chan acts out? That's why. It's not because they think they're entitled to anything. It's because they see that everyone else is entitled to everything, but the people of 4chan can go fuck themselves.

[–]NoIntroductionNeeded 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is an incredibly reductive screed that only reflects your poor opinion of other people, not reality. It also violates the "Respect" rule. I'm amazed that you managed to generate 26 points from this.

[–]Clement_Attlee_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Eh? What was wrong with anything he said? I mean he's responding to someone who is effectively pushing for eugenics and segregation of people who he deems as different and this is the post you have a problem with?

[–]NoIntroductionNeeded 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You don't see a problem with phrases like "goony beard men" and "neon haired she-twinks", or the idea that everyone who embraces nerd culture but doesn't look like a nerd only does so as appropriation, and not because they, like the "nerds" described later, actually enjoy those things? Shit man, we grew up in the 90s, everyone played games. It's a form of fundamental attribution error that (in my experience, and I'd daresay in most others' too) unfairly paints those people as avaricious flip-floppers who are only into things for appearance and personal gain, instead of the pure-hearted "nerd" who enjoys things for their own intrinsic worth, when this dichotomy doesn't exist in that way. Personally, I felt insulted, because I know the stereotype that /u/vonmonologue is describing, and I know that I could be perceived as being part of it, even though people who actually know me and have known me throughout my life would say that it's totally inaccurate. I don't like the idea of having to justify my own interests because I don't match others' perceptions of what someone who likes those things looks like, and nerd culture is rife with that mindset ("girl gamers", for example). If this subreddit is about trying to view people fairly, as people, instead of the classification boxes we can draw around them, then this post clearly violates that spirit.

Also, I responded to the parent commenter elsewhere, pointing out some flaws in his arguments. I didn't feel the need to reply to his initial comment myself, because he had received many downvotes and replies already.

[–]reaganveg 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're making a reading comprehension error here.

[–]NoIntroductionNeeded 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And what is that, exactly? What gem of wisdom am I missing from a wall of text that describes people who have been "empowered" by the normalization of nerd culture as being "neon haired she-twinks" and "idiot San Francisco hipsters who decided to become nerds the second the video game industry broke a billion dollars"? Because, from where I'm sitting, that looks exactly like uncritical hatred and an accusation that someone who doesn't look like a nerd caricature is a greedy moron.

[–]Clement_Attlee_ 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yes I'm sure they'd feel a lot better if a bunch of people just told them they're fucked.

Oh wait no they wouldn't they'd be exactly the same way if not worse.

People being angry at being treated like crap and having a shitty life had nothing to do with society making them entitled, it's a totally natural reaction to how shit society is. Nobody is just going to accept loneliness no matter what you tell them because that would go against fundamental human nature, it's like thinking people would accept starving to death if you take their food away.

[–]alcockell 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Consider that some of them may have helped build the infrastructure if they grew up int he 80s...

[–]Error400BadRequest 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Successful nerd checking in. I was told if I worked hard things would work out. They did.

We're normal people, just like anybody else.

You are dead wrong. Just because I'm not as social as everybody else and didn't always "fit in" doesn't make me a psychopath.

It means I have more time to focus on my hobbies, like music.

[–]Snowley 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I won't deny your ideas have merit, but as someone who "fails at society" I resent the notion that I am just not good enough. Particularly because it seems to be a male - only phenomena.

Females who exhibit similar symptoms as the men who belong to this group can usually find a sympathetic male to love them, because it's okay for a woman to be broken in our society. It's not okay for a man to be broken, and that's where my feelings of resentment and desire for change stem from. And I'd say it's likely that these feelings exist in others as well, and from the same source.

If you're of the mind that those who are broken should be left behind, as you sound, then society needs to start euthanizing people like myself instead of letting us suffer.

I personally would institute programs that educate sympathy towards both genders, the way feminism has empowered even the women who aren't breadwinners and high powered career women. Don't reinforce entitlements, but make support available. Counseling, cognitive behavioral therapy, programs that teach positive aspects of individualism like self discipline and self reliance.

Stop teaching society that people like myself are creeps and losers, and teach those people how to make themselves better. Emphasize that it's not a failing to be broken, it's a failing to not learn to fix yourself, and give them the tools to fix themselves.