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Erik Voorhees: "If 1% of Starbucks drinkers simply knew about FoldApp.com (where they save 20% on every cup), Bitcoin would take over the world." (twitter.com)

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]smidge 28ポイント29ポイント  (10子コメント)

ELI5 Where does the discount come from, i.e. who pays for it and how can everyone still make a profit although another player is added to the value chain?

[–]rezzme 26ポイント27ポイント  (8子コメント)

Unused gift card market. Gift card sellers sell a card at a loss.

[–]Liongrass 27ポイント28ポイント  (5子コメント)

How does the app then scale? If 1% of starbucks customers used the apps, wouldn't the gift card market dry up?

[–]Mentally- 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shush!

[–]fried_dough 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like you're on to something!

[–]evoorhees 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is a massive market. Can't scale infinitely, but can get pretty big, and other gift cards added soon. Amazon gift cards alone I think is a $100m dollar market.

[–]Circle_Dot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is not a massive market. Coinstar and Safeway have already been doing this for years. Nobody uses this program except thieves. Either people who, stole a wallet or purse that had gift cards in it, stole a credit card and bought gift cards, or flat out ripped off gift cards from someone like a school mate or family member.

The legitimate people that saw the sign and thought what a cool idea and actually wanted to get rid of their pottery barn gift card realized very quickly that it was a ripoff. The fees were anywhere from 20-50% of the balance depending on what retailer the gift card was from. Nobody that didn't look like a meth head used this program. Source: I worked at Safeway.

[–]H0ID 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah once they pull giftcards from Wal-Marts and Walgreens and every grocery store/retail location in the United States. Any day now every gift card will be spent.

[–]mommathecat 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nope. Fraud. The Starbucks app is rife with fraud.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/05/13/technology/hackers-starbucks-app/

http://qz.com/404746/hackers-have-been-using-the-starbucks-app-to-steal-money-from-latte-drinkers/

20% discount from people who got a Starbucks gift card they didn't want? Right.

[–]konoplya 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

magics

[–]gulfbitcoin 20ポイント21ポイント  (13子コメント)

I've used it about 5 or 6 times. Got denied once. (while I know they have no reason to reject it, I suspect we'd hear about more friction at any scale)

[–]joyrider5 11ポイント12ポイント  (10子コメント)

I've actually gone to a starbucks that doesnt take starbucks gift cards of any kind. It was in an albertsons and the girl behind the counter was wearing an albertsons uniform. Very confusing. My frap sucked.

[–]_vvvv_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've been to one of these as well, not in an Albertsons though. I asked the barista about it and she basically said they served starbucks coffee and got starbucks promotional material but there was no official connection. Furniture and theme was very similar.

[–]The_Yar 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Starbucks licenses out their brand like crazy. For a fee, anything can claim to be Starbucks.

[–]exoxe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My penis is Starbucks

[–]SteveyDevey 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to be pedantic, but if you look, it'll say something along the lines of "whatever cafe, proudly serving Starbucks". They just partner with companies like Albertsons or Barnes and Noble who have a cafe, but generally wouldn't want a third party business having a presence in their store. It's not a traditional franchise, since they're not claiming to BE a Starbucks, but you're right that the marketing material does seem to confuse a lot of people.

[–]hexapus 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

The ones inside grocery stores are not company stores. Almost all locations are corporate stores, not franchises. There's a very small number of exceptions, and that's one of them.

[–]evoorhees 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All those that I have gone to inside grocers have worked with Fold so far.

[–]gulfbitcoin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, those places pretty much never take Starbucks cards. (Barnes and Noble only recently changed that)

[–]iamfatandhairy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was a fake albertsons mate. They jipped you

[–]Virtualization_Freak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Needs to be a corporate location :D

You can tell because a corporate one will make anything off the menu. I've been to "starbucks" that didn't even carry venti sizes, but they charged you venti prices (in an upper scale hotel in Chicago.)

[–]omeganemesis28 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Albertsons near me take Starbucks cards.... weird

[–]Helvetian616 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I use it nearly every day, except for the 2 times they gave me the coffee for free. They seem much happier to scan the gift card rather then run a credit card or take cash since it's much faster.

[–]gulfbitcoin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, this was at a different Starbucks than I usually go to. I suspect it's only at certain stores where there's an issue.

[–]whodkne 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Anyone alert /r/Starbucks yet?

[–]ivanraszl 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

http://successfulsoftware.net/2013/03/11/the-1-percent-fallacy/

[–]paulmadore 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you.

[–]futilerebel -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think this tweet is a good example of this fallacy, as Voorhees isn't saying that foldapp wouldn't need to "get" 1% of the market; just that 1% of users would need to have heard of foldapp. He's also saying that bitcoin will take over the world, which is obviously neither serious nor quantifiable.

[–]Frankeh 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're reaching pretty hard..

[–]Ilsensine 57ポイント58ポイント  (12子コメント)

The classic 1% Fallacy

[–]brezzz 37ポイント38ポイント  (3子コメント)

If just 1% avoided using this fallacy.

[–]moonbux 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why would an if / then statement be a fallacy?

It's a fallacy when you assume 1% is so small it can be easily done.

[–]brezzz 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

People don't generally go around making conditional statements for no purpose at all. It's an unwritten rule of language that conditional statements can be interpreted as prompts for the reader to give more than hypothetical consideration to the IF part of the statement being true. Depending on the context it can be damn near rhetorical.

You'd really have a hard time arguing that that the purpose of this communication was anything other than begging the question to rile up bicoin users into seriously believing that world domination is trivially easy.

[–]yorrick21 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

...then is that 1% of 1%?

[–]boldra 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

Maybe not, the most common problem with the 1% fallacy is that 1% is hard to achieve. But why wouldn't 1% of Starbucks customers want to save 20% for exactly the same product? It's not that far fetched.

Of course, whether that would inevitably lead to world dominance is far less certain. Especially when the app doesn't even work in most countries.

[–]Frankeh -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because it's a ball ache to use?

[–]boldra -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm sorry you're having difficulty using your wallet. Maybe you would like to post your problem on /r/BitcoinBeginners?

[–]Sovereign_Curtis 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/Frankeh is a buttcoiner. Use the tagging feature in Reddit Enhancement Suite to stay on top of this sort of shit.

[–]petEEy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is difficult to use. You are prompted to sign in with Facebook and must deposit BTC into a gift-barcode thing. Sure you save $1 on a $6 order but now you have 4$ locked up in a barcode that you cant redeem anywhere but Starbucks.

Note that not using it is me swiping my card an not giving a fk about which of the 34523 gift cards to use

[–]LurkerOrHydralisk 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nothing as easy as pulling a card out of your pocket, or even easier a couple bills

[–]cryptomars 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree. Point phone at scanner. Walk away. No change needed, quicker processing than credit cards. Save 20%

[–]btc5000 23ポイント24ポイント  (7子コメント)

It doesn't work at those volumes

[–]rydan 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

In fact Bitcoin would fold.

[–]bobthesponge1 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Could you expand on this? Why does the Fold business model not scale well?

[–]btc5000 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Where they get discounted gift cards dries up, I think people sell them unwanted gift cards for cheap

[–]bobthesponge1 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

they get discounted gift cards

Where do they get the discounted cards?

[–]btc5000 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think people sell them unwanted gift cards for cheap like cardpool, etc

[–]federal_reserve_cock 50ポイント51ポイント  (9子コメント)

And if my grandma had a dick, she'd be my grandpa.

[–]kynek99 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

And you wouldn't exist

[–]Frankeh 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

And if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a bicycle.

[–]LurkerOrHydralisk 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what my grandpa says, your grandma was the town bicycle.

[–]paulmadore 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I actually approve of your logic more than the original quote's logic. But remember: there are no chicks with dicks, just dudes with tits.

[–]dirtpoet 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

Here's another problem. I think a lot of people don't intend to spend money on Starbucks in a planned way. At least I dont. I see a Starbucks and I end up caving. I would never use this app because it requires that I set aside money for Starbucks.

[–]metamirror 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

You just need to have bitcoin in a smartphone wallet. Then, while at starbucks, you go to Fold and purchase a virtual starbucks card using bitcoin. That takes 30 seconds and can be done while you are in line.

[–]NimbleBodhi 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think the issue is it depends on the value of the Bitcoins you purchased at that are sitting in your wallet, otherwise in order to avoid volatility in purchasing power you'd have to buy the bitcoins at time of purchase then send them to Fold then buy your coffee... which is a bit more complicated. That said, if the bitcoins you are holding have increased in value than yes simply importing your wallet coins to Fold.app would be fairly simple and likely save more than 20% off your purchase.

[–]TheSecretMe 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

And that's why bitcoin hasn't gone mainstream. Volatility.

At the moment it's simply stupid for the average consumer to hold on to bitcoins because there's no telling what they might be worth by the time you use them.

[–]NimbleBodhi -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agree that volatility is a problem and not good for the average consumer, but still think it's good for the average saver to hold a small amount of Bitcoin in case it does continue to climb higher as I think Bitcoin's upside potential is far far greater than its downside risk. Once someone's coins are more valuable than they paid for then purchasing goods or services becomes much more enticing I think.

[–]TheSecretMe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

At that point it becomes speculation which would be a really, really bad property for something trying to be a currency.

As long as you can feasibly speculate on bitcoin, especially short term as is the case, it'll be terrible and useless form of currency.

[–]pitchbend 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can simply use a wallet like coinapult with the value of your bitcoins locked to USD, that way you're unaffected by volatility and it's always a win to use them.

[–]TheBullshitPatrol 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Starbucks has their own gift card rewards program that is intended to be used personally rather than strictly as a gift card.

[–]MaleFascistAdvice 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

That won't work here in Australia, we don't do Starbucks.

[–]ben7005 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good for you, I guess?

[–]konoplya 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

because you people can tell the difference between good coffee and shit

[–]forgoodnessshakes 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't get me wrong, it's great that we're getting these sizeable discounts (20% off Amazon with purse.io and 20% off Starbucks with fold) but what we really want is Tap and Pay by integrating bitcoin and NFC through something like Fold or Google Wallet or Android Pay etc. That way you get your 20% discount, the merchant gets whatever currency they collect and neither of you is bothered about the medium of exchange. Anyone know how close we are to this?

[–]BeastmodeBisky 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably not very close because it sounds like that would be a one step direct party to party transaction, where as these services like purse and fold are third party middle men that require additional steps. Someone like Starbucks would have to implement their end of the transaction themselves, and at that point why would they want to involve another middle man in addition to the Bitpay or whatever that would be processing their bitcoin transaction for them.

[–]itsjawknee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What about be your own bank?

[–]xjustpulse 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I know about it, I'm just not sure if it works in The Netherlands. If I have time I will try it this week

[–]Bitcohen 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

while in theory he's prob right, i doubt fold could support that kind of volume right now if you know their business model

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114958/foldapp-top-30-retailers-in-the-us-are-all-in-our-sights

[–]danster82 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The discount would just shrink.

[–]jonstern 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't this whole app based on gift card theft and exploits? Who else sells their gift cards besides criminals?

[–]Hecatonk 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's a nice little mention to help sway people into thinking that bitcoin really can be used for mainstream purposes, but most people would not consider doing a FOREX transaction just to save money on coffee.

[–]evoorhees 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You obviously haven't tried fold. It takes literally 20 seconds to fund, and then eah time you use it at the POA it is faster than a credit card. Not exactly a "FOREX transaction"

[–]Hecatonk 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Uh, you have to have bitcoins first, which means either mining them or doing a FOREX transaction to get them.

[–]SethLevy 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Or being given them.

[–]Hecatonk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure, I mean that works to introduce them, but it's not really a long-term growth plan for a userbase here. FoldApp is awesome, but it lives and dies with bitcoin, not the other way around.

[–]StoryBit 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wonder if Starbucks would allow it then.

[–]gulfbitcoin 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've been denied. The cashier specifically said they couldn't accept Bitcoin, without me really telling him what I was trying to scan. Didn't really tell me why, but I think it's more about people selling Fold for cash than the actual service itself. (it only takes one complaint to set the perception)

[–]BeastmodeBisky 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

but I think it's more about people selling Fold for cash than the actual service itself. (it only takes one complaint to set the perception)

Seems unlikely that many people would be comfortable with the Bitcoiner standing there soliciting people to buy electronic gift cards for their cash. I could definitely see Starbucks shutting this type of thing down.

[–]VampireVendetta -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Most people shelling out six bucks for coffee aren't worried about saving a few cents. If Starbucks just flat out started accepting bitcoins. That would be amazing.

[–]AmIHigh 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's actually $1.20 at $6.00 drinks... Not cents.

[–]Spats_McGee -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, Starbucks would say "gimme a piece of that action" and start accepting BTC themselves

[–]dewbiestep 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I save 100%!

(not a coffee drinker)

[–]conchoso 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I cannot believe that startups are being built around business models that depend on selling used gift cards whose terms clearly state they cannot be sold, but bitcoin so fuck you.

[–]Jvtxjrvh 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

What countries does this work in?

[–]pitchbend 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

From their FAQ:

"Fold works at any Starbucks that accepts US gift cards. This includes Canada, Mexico, Australia, Ireland, Hong Kong, UK, Macau, and Spain."

[–]devraps -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

All

[–]bfelo413 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've used the app like 5 or 6 times. Very quick and simple.

[–]emfyo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How is this any better than Gyft?

[–]conchoso 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Gyft doesn't give you 20% off

[–]emfyo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok well I actually buy Starbucks cards on Gyft. The reason is I use the Starbucks app to pay with MSR (MyStarbucksRewards)

Is this a safe service I can use to keep balance on my account?

Starbucks cards from Gyft (while US and out of my market) can be used anywhere in the world without currency conversion fees.

[–]pitchbend 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How does this work exactly? From the FAQ it seems like you send them $10 worth of Bitcoin and they give you a $10 giftcard and they reimburse you what's left if you didn't spend it all right? My question is, do they reimburse you the btc that's left or the USD value of the remaining balance in BTC? I mean how do they handle volatility when reimbursing you?

[–]Whiteboyfntastic1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No you give them 8$ worth of btc and get 10$ worth of Starbucks card. Or 4 for 5, or 20 for 25.

[–]bcn1075 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you have a solid marketing plan?

[–]Blahblahblah2063 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jason's entrepreneurial brother ?

[–]kingscrown69 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it wing only in usa or eu too?

[–]sindex23 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not until bitcoin isn't a pain in the ass for grandpa to set up, acquire, store, and understand.

[–]sreaka 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If 1% of Starbucks drinkers used Bitcoin, it would already be mainstream on many levels in many industries. That's the beauty of a money 2.0

[–]GrounBEEFtaxi 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

"If 99 percent of bitcoin farted today, the world could sleep for baby food." - Not famous enough for reddit to automatically validate this quote as genius

[–]anotherbeautifuldayj -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

if only 1% would stop drinking at Starbucks world would become a better place :)

[–]Buckyboycoin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great, Maybe I start using in In The Netherlands

[–]rebildtv -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin isnt taking over anything if gift cards and special apps that you need to feed money to are the path to success.

[–]davidpbrown -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Starbucks.. *$ ..Money from assholes.

Why not just burn some regular instant coffee and pay your taxes like regular folk?..

[–]romerun -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hear about foldapp, I know about bitcoin, but never care of using it, until now.

[–]BiPolarBulls -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

SO 1% of Starbucks drinkers are going to take over the world? (because of bit coin?)

[–]acec -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If 1% of Starbucks drinkers really liked good coffee, Starbucks would lose 1% of their clients...

Anyway... just curious, has any one tested it in Spain?

[–]ToroArrr -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why does foldapp have to use bitcoin? The same service can be done without bitcoin?

What am i not understanding?

[–]SugMuhDig -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

interesting

[–]grooober -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

If 1% of bitcoiners thought they could strike it big and would play satoshidice, and then 1% of people who knew about bitcoin would have the money and decide to buy satoshidice, then Eric W would get lots of bitcoins, lots of players would not have won anything, and one sad buyer would own a POS site satoshidice. Then... I forgot where I was goin with this.

[–]paulmadore 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

then Erik V. would get lots of bitcoins

ftfy

[–]muyuu -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That usage is strongly anti-privacy, I would never use it let alone go around pushing it to other people.

[–]revman -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

It might have been better to post this once the app has actually launched.

[–]solled 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It works via the website for almost a year now

[–]evoorhees 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It has launched, I use it several times a week.

[–]sanswork 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you invested in it?