上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]ivanbinMercenary 124ポイント125ポイント  (22子コメント)

And here's one specifically about "not hiring a black girl" http://i.imgur.com/Hgugdyr.png

Word for word

[–]bigolenateFreelancer 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow and the one two sentences later, I guess the hairy private parts quote seemed like a stretch...

[–]jakestheman76 73ポイント74ポイント  (14子コメント)

Holy shit she really did just copy and paste from glass door this is golden. 40 years from now I'll be telling my grand children of the single pivotal moment gaming journalism toppled due to a single act of ctrl+c ctrl+v

[–]DawGia 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

The smoking gun! Well shit, everyone needs to know this.

[–]Kylar_Reed 112ポイント113ポイント  (8子コメント)

Haha wait so all of their "Anonymous" sources are anonymous because they have no idea who these people are not to protect their identity?

[–]DawGia 285ポイント286ポイント  (153子コメント)

Please get these sources in front of Lizzy's editor. I bet he'd have some wonderful things to say about it. And keep me informed :)

[–]Lonestar_the_Kilrath 76ポイント77ポイント  (52子コメント)

the author of the forbes article appears to be looking into the claims of bogus sources https://i.imgur.com/x5q9veZ.png

[–]samfreez 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

Haha oh man, tomorrow is going to be interesting....

[–]antrodax 24ポイント25ポイント  (41子コメント)

Don't expect a step back from him.

He is retweeting the original author as she would not be bullshitting in Twitter after posting an article based on fake sources.

Anyways, he twitted this:

Jason Evangelho ‏@killyourfm 4 minHace 4 minutos So the sources who spoke to @TheEscapistMag about Star Citizen were vetted through legal. Burden of proof isn't on them IMO.

[–]antrodax 46ポイント47ポイント  (39子コメント)

Jason Evangelho ‏@killyourfm 19 minHace 19 minutos Ver traducción Still, let's say you debunk ALL these sources speaking out against Star Citizen. I STILL think the development is deeply troubled.

Lol, if the sources are wrong I'll still buy it. Great, guy.

[–]DawGia 27ポイント28ポイント  (38子コメント)

That's some journalistic integrity there.

[–]antrodax 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ok, he's updated his article again.

As a web editor myself, I can't cope with the idea of updating three times any of my writings. That's not right. If I see my fonts debunked, I man up and write a follow-up. And I'm not a journalist.

[–]JonTheBold 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

"However, many of you seem content to discard these allegations as false simply because Roberts says they're false, which is more disturbing than any claims contained in this article."

Let's play "which is more disturbing?": a bunch of people who like a game and who have watched hours and hours of production videos and who have come to trust the game's developer? Or a person who writes an article based off another article without doing any independent fact-checking and simply adding "my gut tells me" statements.

[–]wilic 17ポイント18ポイント  (34子コメント)

From this dudes recent clicky bait article: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/01/report-star-citizen-is-almost-out-of-cash-and-chris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/

[UPDATE 3: It has been revealed that several -- but not all -- of the quotes contained in The Escapist's article were taken from Glassdoor Australia, a website that allows anonymous reviews of employers. The concern here is that these individuals couldn't have been verified as current or former employees. At least not via Glassdoor which doesn't have an employee verification process. However, The Escapist (via author Lizzy Finnegan) says that all individuals interviewed for their article were vetted through their legal department. It's not a stretch that these employees reached out to multiple outlets during the same window of time that they posted their negative reviews. In my opinion, the burden of proof simply isn't on The Escapist at this point. You don't have to take the comments and allegations as fact, obviously, but I find no reason to believe this was some elaborate fabrication, either.]

Sounds like the 'Burden of proof' is back on Lizzy, IMO.

[–]mesasoneCartographer 50ポイント51ポイント  (19子コメント)

How is the burden of proof not on TheEscapist? They utter the phrase "vetted by legal" and now everybody else has to prove a negative?

Sorry, that doesn't fly. "Vetted by legal" isn't some magical shield that deflects all criticism and renders it invalid.

[–]Avatar_5 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

"Vetted by legal" means "We can't be sued for this". Nothing more.

[–]Scimitar3 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bingo. "Vetted by legal" doesn't mean "truthful".

When did people all of a sudden started assuming that all lawyers are honest?

[–]dbd1963Cartographer 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can say that I had this post vetted by legal before I pressed save. Doesn't mean that's what happened.

[–]DawGia 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vetted by legal - Might as well have come out of DS's mouth.

[–]Chris_83 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

The author says the sources were vetted through their legal department and refers to Lizzys twitter post. Meanwhile this twitter post doesn't say the sources were vetted - it was a response on how long the article was in the works and says "5 days. That includes interviews and vetting/legal dept". It means the article was checked by legal - NOT the sources!

[–]traitorous4channer 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

'cleared legal', hey where have I heard that recently? I think it was another super credible guy on the fringes of the star citizen community.

[–]samfreez 106ポイント107ポイント  (11子コメント)

Just make sure you CC the author and whoever that other guy was; otherwise their response may be delayed.

[–]DawGia 51ポイント52ポイント  (8子コメント)

Polygon would love this scoop.

[–]KazumaKatTowel 25ポイント26ポイント  (7子コメント)

They probably are on the scoop as we type this, they're just being smart about sources knowing any fuckup, however minor, is just going to make them look as bad as Escapist right now.

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 74ポイント75ポイント  (51子コメント)

I really, REALLY hope she didn't lift these off Glassdoor and pass them off as sources. It's possible that her sources just copied her or "affirmed" what they wrote on Glassdoor.

But if she did just copy this from Glassdoor.... that's the end of her journalism career right there. And that sucks for anybody, even if she did deserve it.

[–]CaptainRelevantPirate 51ポイント52ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'd say she's got a bright future with The Enquirer.

Edit: For our non-U.S. friends, The Enquirer is one of those supermarket tabloids with complete bullshit stories like "Aliens' secret pact with Obama revealed!"

[–]eponra 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

We also have that in germany: BILD

If there is a case of Murder, you can be sure that the first person who spoke with the victim is a man from "BILD"...

[–]polyinky 30ポイント31ポイント  (11子コメント)

She did just copy from glassdoor. Word for word. So either her "anonymous" sources said EXACTLY what they typed in their reviews, or she copied them.

[–]Strazdas1 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

Could it be that those sources were the same people that wrote those glassdoor reviews, hence they said the same thing to her?

[–]ScarsUnseenBounty Hunter 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

It is entirely possible, but that doesn't make things better for the article. It would mean that at least some of the cited sources are simply copy/paste venting rather than actually responding in a genuine manner that an article of this magnitude warrants.

The article claims that discussions took place, but when the article quotes other online sources word for word, either the writer or the sources have lost credibility. The only way I can see this is that either no discussion actually took place, or the sources in question didn't take the discussion seriously and just copy/pasted responses.

[–]xxADMIRALSUPERDICKxxScout 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

same shitty "career" as DS´s. Maybe she can work for him, write his manuals for a game no one will ever play

[–]fweepaScout 8ポイント9ポイント  (16子コメント)

The reviews were posted before the article was published.

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 20ポイント21ポイント  (15子コメント)

Right. That doesn't mean she couldn't have found the authors and asked them to confirm what they wrote on Glassdoor. In which case it's still valid, not just lifting words from an unverifiable review on Glassdoor.

I really, REALLY doubt it, but rushing to judgment on this shit and not giving her a chance to respond is basically what we're yelling at Escapist for doing. Let's not be them.

[–]DawGia 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

I am much more certain that these sources came from Glassdoor than she was that they were legitimate.

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

As am I. But I'm trying not to be the people I spent most of today complaining about on Reddit, so I'd like to give her a good chance to refute or explain this.

Especially because the consequences for her are pretty dire if it's true. She'd basically be kissing her writing career goodbye. So let's be measured in our response.

[–]DawGia 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

Of course! We'll give her a deadline. And then when she refutes 3 hours before that deadline, we'll pretend we didn't see it because she didn't hit "Reply All" and go public to the masses ;)

[–]tehpopulator 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't track down people on Glassdoor though... the whole point is complete anonymity

[–]ScarsUnseenBounty Hunter 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Either way it looks really bad. Either she was fooled, or she withheld relevant information. If she knew about the Glassdoor reviews, she should have cited them. If she didn't know, then it's only the article that comes into question. But even that's only if you believe her if she claims she didn't know.

My bet? Either she will ignore it all together( which in my mind is a tacit admission of wrongdoing) or she will claim ignorance, but insist that her sources are verified regardless.

[–]AHomelessWalrusGrand Admiral 31ポイント32ポイント  (9子コメント)

Better yet, send them to rival "news sites", I'm sure they'd be interested in this.

[–]Electr0freak 26ポイント27ポイント  (5子コメント)

I emailed Mike at GameInformer, his email was at the bottom of their Escapist response article.

Wherever you see an article talking about the Escapist piece, email the author and link this thread!

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah. Now I'm super curious about the next step in all this.

[–]Electr0freak 28ポイント29ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, every post in this thread just got 1 downvote. So, the opposition has noticed what's been found.

Have an upvote back. I'll be counter-voting our angry friend.

That you Derekt? U mad?

[–]DawGia 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've started posting places, but I don't have logins everywhere. Come my fellow Star Citizenians! We must spread the good news to the masses!

[–]Shadow703793Freelancer For Lyfe 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let's crowd source this!

[–]GetzageddonHigh Admiral 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that's the wrong move, 150%. Its exactly that kind of behavior that makes people say "oh they're a cult, any criticism is met with an insane horde like reponse", and that's exactly what you would be doing.

We need to let CIG control the narrative, keep calm, and let the news cycle pass over the story. I'm sure they have a much better idea of what they can't say, what they know is outright false, and which allegations, if any might be true and require damage control.

Journalism is about generating interest, and its irrelevant whether its positive or negative. She has written a very succesful article because its caused the community to respond. You only make it worse when you explode the inboxes of every gaming news website.

She'll be getting emails herself from these people "Hey so and so, that article really has a lot of people emailing me" and feel good about herself for poking the hornets nest. She will be inspired to keep taking shots at star citizen. We have already guaranteed ourselves at least two more articles based on the response, lets not make it three or more.

So just like with the Derek Smart thing I am sure I will be ignored but I have to say don't do anything at all you are just making it worse

[–]SpaceNinjaBearBounty Hunter 25ポイント26ポイント  (14子コメント)

The Escapist's server administrator has allegedly verified that the sources are legitimate. (Imgur link.)

We verified their identities privately, as there's very few (if any) ways to publicly cite them without ruining their careers.

Edit: Not sure where the downvotes are coming from. I'd consider this to be relevant information about the Escapist's stance on the sources. I'll remove the link to the article's comment section if that's what the fuss is about.

Edit 2: John Keefer, Escapist's managing editor, has responded here detailing the sources used.

[–]chip_ninjaPirate 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

The anonymous nature of Glassdoor makes that verification nearly impossible; anyone can claim to be the author of those posts, just as anyone can post claiming to have been a CIG employee without ever actually verifying anything. What I find suspicious is that these quotes were not cited, even though they can be verified as quotes from Glassdoor. The only reason I can think of not to mention that they are from Glassdoor is if that is the only source of that information, because at that point mentioning it would cause others to look into it and call the integrity and accuracy of the piece into question.

Now, the problem I have personally with pieces like this (not just SC pieces mind you), is that you've got "journalists" citing anonymous sources - neglecting information about where they got information from the source - and then claiming it's all been verified. When some of your sources are already shaky (at best), why should I believe a word said when it comes to claims of verification? Other members of a company could claim verification when it's untrue just as easily as a writer can claim an anonymous review is a source's statement without proper attribution.

For the sake of argument let's say all of the information is completely made up.

What's CIG going to do? Spend backer funds entering into a legal battle? That'd slow down/damage development - potentially ending up in the project fulfilling some of the exact situations claimed in these articles. I can't imagine they're sitting on a lot of cash right now - so going up against other companies in a lengthy legal battle would do CIG and SC harm (in the short term at the very least).

I think that it was a calculated risk. The only way a bluff about sources is going to be called is if this turns into a legal fiasco - which is something I don't think will happen. So if you aren't going to get sued, why would a "news" site that gets paid by views care so long as the article drives traffic?

[–]DawGia 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep, mentioning DS as a credible source. Pretty much confirms everything right there.

[–]dragmyrPirate 130ポイント131ポイント  (4子コメント)

I love it.

Direct from her article:

a number of sources, comprised of both current and former employees of Cloud Imperium Games, reached out to discuss troubling revelations about the state of the company.

"reached out"

  • edit: salute to you for finding this gem.

[–]samfreez 88ポイント89ポイント  (18子コメント)

Woooow....

So one of the people there has worked full time at CIG for over 3 years, eh? Really?

[–]ForgedIronMadeItGrand Admiral 56ポイント57ポイント  (12子コメント)

It is the same person who had ten years of Java experience in 2001.

[–]Abaddon314159 13ポイント14ポイント  (11子コメント)

Saw a resume the other day for a guy with 30 years of Linux experience.

[–]ForgedIronMadeItGrand Admiral 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think that would be Linus and maybe like three other people.

Maybe that's it, Chris posted on Glassdoor, he's been there that long.

[–]Abaddon314159 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Heh, nope, Linus has only been using it for 24 years, maybe 25 if you include early pre-release development.

[–]super_hornet 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Indeed, this post is especially fishy. CIG clearly did not have the amount of employees 3 years ago as they have today. In fact, Chris Robert's response letter states: "We aren’t even at the three year mark of full development (we didn’t open up the first development office in Austin with 15 people until February 2013)." Clearly there aren't very many people that could claim being with CIG for more than three years... Something doesn't add up...

[–]KazumaKatTowel 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

over 3 years

So I'm not the only one wondering if I timetraveled forward and wondering why Arena Commander released in a solid enough state in 2015, with me totally expecting it to be a 2016 release.

[–]IntellectualHoboTrader 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe it just "felt" like three years because of how teeerrriiibbllleee it must have been working on the best damn space sim ever. /s

[–]vogon_poem_lover 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, about that something seems fishy. O_o

[–]PhantomPowerSCHigh Admiral 43ポイント44ポイント  (4子コメント)

Look at how all 4 reviews are written, short sentences, same style, all bullet point type critiques, people write in different styles, these are all the same. Would not surprise me if all were written by one person.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

wouldn't it be hilarious if dshart or his puppet fed lizzy the same text as the reviews without telling her the exact same text was posted on the internet and she just gullibly posted them verbatim...

[–]PhantomPowerSCHigh Admiral 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, sad thing is it would not be surprising at all.

[–]Zwemvest 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I got the same vibe. Even the styling is same, like never giving any concrete examples apart from "have been called this and that" and "projects are such and so", and always mentioning management as one of the first things.

[–]whitesnake8Imperial News Network 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

(after reading update five)

This /u/MisterBurkes guy is a better investigative journalist than 90% of the gaming media.

[–]kadekawa 72ポイント73ポイント  (8子コメント)

[–]MisterBurkesGolden Ticket[S] 46ポイント47ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah yes, the infamous Lizzy and Derek alliance.

[–]RangerXMLGrand Admiral 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

Someone is so gonna lose their job over this.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

she gets paid for that crap? sign me up

[–]UncleMalkyFreelancer 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know right? that article wouldn't get a passing grade in any class I've taken.

[–]triedtostayaway 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

No way, they'll frame it as a female tech journalist being bullied by neckbeards, there will be a huge controversy over the same old stuff and nothing will come of it, especially given how hard the Escapist leans into that stuff.

[–]Altaweir 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

She could write about it in Glassdoor.

Oh the irony

[–]ktcorn 71ポイント72ポイント  (6子コメント)

At first thought you were kidding or fanboying out.

fuck me... she really is lifting quotes from glassdoor posts and passing them off as " a number of sources, comprised of both current and former employees of Cloud Imperium Games, reached out to discuss troubling revelations about the state of the company. " Nice work escapist.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 25ポイント26ポイント  (5子コメント)

someone ask her if she thinks glassdoor posts are vetted?

[–]The_ReckonistFreelancer 23ポイント24ポイント  (7子コメント)

kicks door in

Sorry im late guys, was in a hot tub with two sexxay ladies....

Can someone just clarify, This means noone gave her quotes, she just stole them from a message board?

Bye bye career...

[–]blacksun_redux 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hey put some pants on!

Well, she could have also talked with "these individuals" outside of Glassdoor. But we'll see. I she doesn't come up with some kind of solid evidence in the next 48 hours or so... I don't know what will happen. but something.

[–]Impulse93Freelancer 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lizzy Finnegan, the copy n' paste journalist ftw.

[–]vogon_poem_lover 40ポイント41ポイント  (2子コメント)

If these were indeed the "anonymous sources" for that article, and it looks pretty damn clear they were, then that article should never have been published. Somone needs to get fired over that. ಠ_ಠ

[–]Please_Label_NSFWVice Admiral 40ポイント41ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Resign: My only hope for this company and the project are for the management team to step down and hand over their reigns to a more level headed competent team."

http://imgur.com/zs8AU3X

I WONDER WHO THAT SOUNDS LIKE!?!? That idiot literally just gave away who he was, how can he be such a moron... Derek Smart just signed his signature all over that review.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 36ポイント37ポイント  (16子コメント)

Forbes guy is asking lizzy for comment on the glassdoor posts

[–]Joonyoungk 15ポイント16ポイント  (12子コメント)

Another tweet. looks like he's looking into glassdoor. I was annoyed initially but it looks like he's actually going to look into this properly now.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

good, i might give him a pass on his article's use of:

"Or selling packages that cost an absurd $15,000. "

IF he does some JOURNALISM :P Yay journalism.

[–]wilic 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nope, no journalistic integrity here to dig deeper from this dudes recent clicky bait article, all he does is cite Lizzy's article for his 'own' sources: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/01/report-star-citizen-is-almost-out-of-cash-and-chris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/

[UPDATE 3: It has been revealed that several -- but not all -- of the quotes contained in The Escapist's article were taken from Glassdoor Australia, a website that allows anonymous reviews of employers. The concern here is that these individuals couldn't have been verified as current or former employees. At least not via Glassdoor which doesn't have an employee verification process. However, The Escapist (via author Lizzy Finnegan) says that all individuals interviewed for their article were vetted through their legal department. It's not a stretch that these employees reached out to multiple outlets during the same window of time that they posted their negative reviews. In my opinion, the burden of proof simply isn't on The Escapist at this point. You don't have to take the comments and allegations as fact, obviously, but I find no reason to believe this was some elaborate fabrication, either.]

Sounds like the 'Burden of proof' is back on Lizzy, IMO.

[–]weshaSpace Marshal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

looks like he's actually going to look into this properly now.

The question I still have: what exactly prevented him from doing the fact-checking BEFORE publishing the article?

Journalist my ass.

[–]KaderaPrime 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

The GlassDoor review alleging systematic illegal recruiting and hiring practices was posted on 28 September. The article from Finnegan uses either EXACT or nearly exact phrasing and attributes it to "CS1" -- an anonymous source. Moreover, the review claims to have been from someone working at CIG for "more than 3 years" -- yet CIG has only existed since April 2012. Or 3 1/2 years. Somehow, we're supposed to believe someone who was regularly screamed at and called obscene, bigoted names on a regular basis IS STILL an employee at CIG? And that none of the allegations resulted in a criminal complaint or a filing with the EEOC?

Look, there probably are disgruntled ex-employees out there. But this is ridiculous, and a first year journalism student could drive trains through the holes in the Escapist article. From end to end, it's nothing but anonymous (but slanderous and defamatory) hearsay.

[–]TechnatoriumLt. Commander 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Aye, from all the time I have followed and backed Star Citizen, I have known of at least one that was fired/let go for his actions. Others left for finding that one job they dreamed about all their lives. Others quit because they were asked to move closer to the main operations and did not want to leave family or their comfortable lifestyle.

I have drifted away from the crazy in recent months do to issues in my own crazy life. At any rate, I find a lot of these sources suspect. If they were legitimate how is it that the majority of these sources posted in a very short time span when there were other disgruntle posts from ages ago. What makes these valid if at all. It seems fishy and like a smokescreen for objectives beyond the aspects of true journalism.

I just would not give them any more attention than they already got. It is more to prop them up and give them a place to stand just like that other guy who is a pinhead and refuses to work on his own project.

Need I say more.

[–]Lonestar_the_Kilrath 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

bud, you're a better investigative reporter than any of these "games journalists" reporting on gossip and rumors

[–]lolpancakeslol 29ポイント30ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hard hitting jurnalizms by TheEscapist, I see.

Hope they realize that Yahtzee is probably the only thing worth watching on that site.

[–]KazumaKatTowel 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yahtzee

The moment he jumps ship and creates his own Youtube channel is the moment I even bother poking TheEscapists from time to time.

[–]InfinityArch 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has his own youtube channel and does a fair amount of stuff unrelated to the Escapist.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Q4WBqNtMF_2GbIsGjic4A

[–]Oddzball 63ポイント64ポイント  (12子コメント)

Wow.... if this is fucking true that Lizzy chicks career in journalism is fucking over. That's some straight up shit journalism.

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Agreed. IF it's true and this was her direct source (not necessarily the case - her source could have written his story to her and copied much of it from a glassdoor review he'd also written) then it's pretty damning.

Again, hard to prove.

[–]Oddzball 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah hard to prove but awful damning since its literally some direct quotes in the article.

[–]polyinky 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can tell the reviews are troll posts by how outlandish they are. Lizzy just removed the over-the-top parts, like the whole "don't hire them cause they look like they have a hairy pussy."

I mean fucking REALLY? It's fucking obvious. Either Sandi is genuinely Hitler, or its a troll post.

[–]polyinky 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I read one of those reviews a few days ago and knew it was a troll post. I've been on glass door for months and occasionally pop in to see reviews of the company. I've seen troll posts come and go occasionally but always figured this was a known thing. I was obviously naive.

[–]gawdawfulFreelancer 50ポイント51ポイント  (9子コメント)

Get the fucking popcorn out.

[–]endless_shampoo 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

this is kinda the important part and where it is obvious this was the actual source of the article:

http://imgur.com/zs8AU3X

what a joke... it is so sad such ridiculous things are being said about people specifically sandi. on what basis... an anonymous glassdoor post..

[–]Non-negotiableFreelancer 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

The security guy Merrick Shart takes his job a bit too serious.

lol

[–]Obsidian_monkey 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

Unfortunate last name, but I think this guy (if real) deserves some support. The whole "I left my badge at home" thing is such an obvious social engineering tactic that no security guard worth their salt would fall for it. Don't forget your badge.

[–]scoyne15Rear Admiral 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm 99% positive that's a fake (positive) employee post to balance the obvious fake (negative) ones. Merrick Shart? Derek Smart?

Edit: +/-

[–]ehManiacal 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's certainly likely that one or two positive reviews are from people from the community...

[–]SmugasaurusFreelancer 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course he does, his family is forever tainted by their forebears not taking a fart seriously.

[–]Impulse93Freelancer 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I step away from the internets for 8 hours and come back to this! Thank you Mr. Roberts for the response to this FUD campaign.

[–]VonGrimm85 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Besides the interesting post dates, to me, all the negative reviews come across as having been written by the same person. Similar writing style.

[–]rhadiemGrand Admiral 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

ATV 2.20 Good news citizens, a recent defamation case against Escapist magazine has awarded Star Citizen millions of dollars in new development money.

[–]Redshirt02 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mrburkes, thanks for update 22. I really like this bit: "When someone asks to provide information off the record, be sure the reason is not to boost her own position by undermining someone else’s, to even the score with a rival, to attack an opponent or to push a personal agenda. "

Huh... so ex-employee who may have an axe to grind says X company is on the verge of bankruptcy, and is filled with racial discrimination...

Oh hell, we're journalists! Let's give X company less than 24 hours to comment before pushing out this piece filled with no proof other than the above anon sources!

[–]kitsinni 32ポイント33ポイント  (6子コメント)

I actually have proof that she just copied these from Glassdoor, I have had 2 sources come to me that left the escapist and 2 that still work there to verify. I will call them GD1-GD4 to protect their anonymity at their request.

GD1 - "She spent a week posting stuff on Glassdoor in order to write her article"

GD2 - "She often said she doesn't care about journalism and it is all about getting clicks to her articles"

GD3 - "Just last week I walked in to her office to talk to her about an article and she was on a Skype call with Derek Smart"

GD4 - "The CEO of the Escapist has said many times that it is all about the clicks. People want to do real journalism but they are forced to write clickbait articles. If you ask to get both sides of the story you are yelled at until you feel physically ill."

GD1 - "When I saw young journalist come in I felt like yelling get out of here while you still have integrity"

GD2 - "The entire Escapist publication is on the verge of bankruptcy, it is common knowledge that the advertisers are demanding more clicks or they will pull the ads"

[–]MrHackworth 19ポイント20ポイント  (37子コメント)

Can anyone post on these websites? If there's no QC...

[–]MisterBurkesGolden Ticket[S] 38ポイント39ポイント  (26子コメント)

Yes, Glassdoor requires no verification. Also I noticed most of the negative posts were created this week!

[–]DawGia 24ポイント25ポイント  (8子コメント)

I recognize Derek's gibberish in one of the reviews. No one else would confuse Star Citizen for a "Ponzi" scam.

[–]NewzyOneLt. Commander 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

Him and jcrg are the only ones I've heard say that.

That and "bait and switch" are clear indicators.

[–]jakestheman76 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seriously this bugs me more then it should does he have any idea what a ponzi scheme is??

[–]samfreez 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Clearly we backers are missing out on some fine residual income. Apparently we're supposed to sell SC to others in vans down by the river or something.

[–]jakestheman76 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you wanna join my team??? I'm making mad bucks with SC I know you want in brother!! I'm already driving a BMW from this amazing opportunity!

[–]wilic 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Friends, time to spread the word from mountains high, and horrible gaming magazines low:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.883050-Star-Citizen-Employees-Speak-Out-on-Project-Woes-Update?page=11

Edit, Also, this for clarity - Comparison of portion of article context to a glassdoor review: http://imgur.com/cGTiEFj

[–]jfc1313High Admiral 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

ROFLOL Great work.

You should become a journalist. ;-) It would be great to see a journalist that actually investigates and does research for once.

[–]mithikxRear Admiral 17ポイント18ポイント  (22子コメント)

[vomits internally]

[–]willyb321High Admiral 19ポイント20ポイント  (15子コメント)

vomits externally
I actually just vomited tho, am sick :/

[–]NewzyOneLt. Commander 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Get well soon WillyB!

I've made chicken soup in your honour...

.. that's right. you being sick made me kill a chicken. So stop being sick or another chicken gets it.

[–]chris-is-drunkPirate 17ポイント18ポイント  (12子コメント)

An update by the guy who wrote the less-than-flattering Forbes article. http://i.imgur.com/TJfwnh0.png

edit: update http://i.imgur.com/AMRGJf4.png and his forbes article http://i.imgur.com/Qys1zpk.png

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't. He came back with a "Escapist says it's all cool and they vetted it through Legal. We're pretty sure they didn't make it all up, probably."

[–]Rumpullpus 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean they pinky swear'ed so they have to be telling the truth. right?

guys...

[–]ttt3t 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

"vetted through legal" - That literally doesn't mean anything.

That doesn't mean "Legal have double checked these people are who they say they are, and indeed worked for CIG"

It's more like "We have determined by quoting these 'sources' we are not liable for a libel lawsuit, have fun"

[–]DawGia 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I must Revise my first impression of this author.

[–]UncleMalkyFreelancer 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Its my Cake Day and you sir, have delivered the freakin cake. Have some gold.

[–]MisterBurkesGolden Ticket[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, happy Cake Day :)

[–]Please_Label_NSFWVice Admiral 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Funny how all the negative reviews are from "Passed" employees that couldn't hack it.

[–]pelocho 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is exactly what I imagined.

I'm gonna fund the shit out of this game for 2 reasons:
1- Because I can
2- Because I want

AFK pledging...

[–]zaphod6502Space Marshal 24ポイント25ポイント  (5子コメント)

FWIW as a former Glassdoor user I noticed some of these latest CIG posts are actually copy and pastes of Glassdoor posts made over 2 years ago. I no longer have a full account though so can't check the original posts.

It does seem like someone is playing a very strange game to purposely generate drama.

[–]DawGia 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude if you could find those earlier posts that would be the nail in the coffin!

[–]ciny 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

genuine question : who is this lizzy and escapist and why should I care?

[–]Shadow703793Freelancer For Lyfe 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

Someone please make sure to archive.is the Glass Door stuff in case they get deleted or edited. That way there's proof someone was trolling hard.

Also fine detective work Citizen.

[–]Rarehero 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hahahaha! That's great! I actually don't want to hear anymore from or about Voldesmart, but that's just too fucking amazing! First the revelation that there never was an FTC investigation against CIG (because Smart never had any such evidence!), and most if not all the alleged "whistleblowers" who provided Voldesmart with information about terrible working conditions at CIG turn out to be nothing more just anonymous posts on a website where everybody can post everything without verifaction. I ... I ashamed to say it, but I want to know how that storie continues. How will "The Escapist", their editor and Lizzy "It's all about ethics" Finnegan react to that?

Let everybody see that! Twitter it everywhere! Send it to the editor of "The Escapist" and to all other media outlets.

[–]Please_Label_NSFWVice Admiral 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

As far as I can see, there's one legit negative review from Aug 5th. Which may be warranted. All the rest are obviously fake. Well the 1 star ones, all created in the same date.

[–]homerlvsbeer 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

that is horrendous. people like this who make up storys like this, there sick. well done misterburkes. :) she must be a real cold fish. this lizzy

[–]DevirOf42 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

If Derek Smart actually put the energy into game making, as he does Trolling, he'd be the most successful game maker in all of history. But all he has is one epic failure "Battlecruiser 3000ad" and a well documented history of being a jerk and a rather unlikable guy. He's been targeting Robert's since the 1990's when Wing Commander was being worked on. It's just a very bad and unhealthy obsessive mancrush he has on a very sucessfull game designer.

[–]Doc-Hollandaise 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

People should just post a bunch of fake anonymous reviews on Glassdoor for CIG full of hilarity just to prove how useless of a source it is.

[–]SCombinator 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't Derek Smart that nutter failed game developer?

[–]itsManiLt Commander 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

i have a credible source that Lizzy is full of shit

[–]elusivehonorCivilian 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

So, I read both the article and the response. Not that I am some pillar of the community, but can I just say that even if the sources are true, it is completely unethical for the Escapist to actually have written the piece without a single shred of verifiable evidence. 'CIG is going bankrupt. Trust us, we heard it from seven ex-employees. No, you cannot have their names, or any data.'

That is not investigative journalism. That is a hit piece. Not including CiG from the start is also pretty amateurish, as well. These are serious allegations -- CiG should be allowed to respond to each and every one of them before the article is posted.

I am hardly a staunch defender of CiG. I criticize them for a whole mess of reasons, but how can you justify writing an article like this without allowing CiG to respond to the allegations?

Seems biased, to me.

[–]Inferis84High Admiral 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

The amount of time that they gave CIG to respond was stupid. Less than 24 hours to respond with something to be printed in an article attacking your company? That's crazy, and smells like it was done that fast to get no response, or one that's written hastily so it won't have as much impact.

[–]HeadClotGolden Ticket Holder 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Derek Smart made this pointed lizzy toward this me thinks.

But just my speculation.

[–]SOLAR15Vice Admiral 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a fucking moron.

[–]Rarehero 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Escapist plans on doing office visits and interviews, which will ultimately give us a more complete picture of the situation without having trolls and unknown sources interfering with all of their biases (I highly recommend reading the SPJ link on Update 22).

That's what should have happened from that start! It is easy to gain access to the CIG offices. It is easy to contact to the employees. It easy to get a broad spectrum of opinions from all offices and many employees. It's even easy to gain access to the offices undercover.

A good journalist would have done that. A good journalist would have tried to get the whole picture with opinions of both sides. Lizzy however was not interested in talking with current employees. She just had to contact them via Twitter, but she didn't. Instead she trusted sources that she did not verify, or she did not actually interview them. Both of that is bad, but the worst thing is, that the she didn't reach out to other employees of CIG to get the whole picture. Why? Because she had an agenda and the other side of the story did not fit that agenda?

But let's assume for a second that these sources are genuine. Apparently most of these sources have worked in the character pipeline, and according to these sources that pipeline was and still is badly managed. A project of these dimensions has many departments and pipelines. Sometimes a department isn't managed properly and doesn't function. I have experienced that a few times myself. That shouldn't happen, but it does happen because it is almost impossible to have the right people for the right job in every spot. However, that's no reason to question the entire project or the entire company. Especially not when you have done batshit to get the whole picture.

For an article that makes such bold claims the sources are flimsy at best and lack credibility. That's not quality journalism. It's just clickbait.

[–]zansoxTowel 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

Gives them a solid case for defamation...I'll do the case pro bono.

[–]HTanHEniTaeGrand Admiral 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wish this type of hit job were illegal and these people could be arrested for it.

[–]BOBMUNZScout 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

People rape children in our society and get 6 months or time served, don't expect much from your judicial systems.

[–]Shadow703793Freelancer For Lyfe 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Meanwhile some one caught with some weed gets 5 years. Justice system is indeed strange.

[–]davidnfilmsBounty Hunter 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

OHHHH WOOOOOOWWW!!!!

This is GREAT!

[–]wilic 10ポイント11ポイント  (9子コメント)

Oh these are so funny...what else is she lying about?

https://twitter.com/lizzyf620/status/649750159153328128

https://twitter.com/lizzyf620/status/649750308118241280

Edit: added screenshots for posterity: http://imgur.com/5aaAyVH

[–]BoboMatrix 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Take screenshots in-case she deletes them.

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

@lizzyf620

2015-10-02 00:58 UTC

@bigbenhoward No one offered not to be anon. They are known to me and my higher ups, but they didn't want their names included.


@lizzyf620

2015-10-02 00:58 UTC

@bigbenhoward The two additional sources didn't provide me with information that could appropriately confirm them so they weren't quoted.


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[–]BoboMatrix 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Take screenshots in-case she deletes them.

[–]Shadow703793Freelancer For Lyfe 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's a bot man.

[–]BoboMatrix 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meant to reply to /u/wilic

Someone seems to be going through all these posts and downvoting everything.

[–]bigcrackerBounty Hunter 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Lizzy just pissed off a bunch of people that have for the better part of year been arguing about gimbaled vs nongimbaled weapons and Mouse vs HOTAS with detailed information that would make your head spin. Poor girl didnt know what she got herself into. Nice Job OP

[–]wilic 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, here's one I reported back around sept 30th where they notified me of the decision to take it down..."Toxic Work Environment" anyone?

http://imgur.com/QvhNRdu

Sounds like Lizzy is real familiar with glassdoor - maybe she'll be leaving a legit review for the Escapist soon?

Edit: graphic comparing part of article to glassdoor review: http://imgur.com/cGTiEFj

[–]rips10 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

How stupid can you be to think no one would find this?

[–]blackbow 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good job Reddit. Jesus. I hope The Escapist burns for this bullshit.

[–]ConcernedStarCitizen 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hah, now I don't know if the author is just dumb as rocks or had some kind of agenda. Oh well, no surprise when you let children be "journalists".

[–]Viscereality 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

So I can google stuff and browse forums, can I get a job as a journalist now.

[–]octal9Towel 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

un-fucking-believable. wow.

[–]LaznAznGrand Admiral 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

Forbes article has been updated in response.

[UPDATE 3: It has been revealed that several -- but not all -- of the quotes contained in The Escapist's article were taken from Glassdoor Australia, a website that allows anonymous reviews of employers. The concern here is that these individuals couldn't have been verified as current or former employees. At least not via Glassdoor which doesn't have an employee verification process. However, The Escapist (via author Lizzy Finnegan) says that all individuals interviewed for their article were vetted through their legal department. It's not a stretch that these employees reached out to multiple outlets during the same window of time that they posted their negative reviews. In my opinion, the burden of proof simply isn't on The Escapist at this point. You don't have to take the comments and allegations as fact, obviously, but I find no reason to believe this was some elaborate fabrication, either.]

[–]MisterForkbeardFreelancer 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow. So basically: "In sum, although we found out that many of the quotes were used verbatim from Glassdoor reviews, Escapist says it's totally cool and they vetted all of them. We find this satisfactory and completely okay and while we don't have to take their accusations as fact, it's on CIG to prove this is wrong. Again."

Sigh. I don't even know what this guy is thinking. Or smoking. Probably smoking.

[–]NoodlyManifestation 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

So, if these people were "interviewed" why use the exact quote that was posted on Glassdoor?

[–]Rarehero 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could someone please ask Jason how it comes that the sources cited in the article and the Glassdoor review are exactly the same. Are we to believe that these informants reached out to Lizzy Finnegan, told her their story and then published the exact same stories word-by-word on Glassdoor within a couple days and between two negative clickbait articles by Lizzy Fnnegan?

I cannot post on Forbes for some reason, so someone else would please have to do it for me.

P.S.: And are we to believe that these sources were verfied just because they claim they have verified them?

[–]Jerry_NY 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

@/u/MisterBurkes: here the rebuttal from Escapist's editor to add to OP

https://twitter.com/s0osleepie/status/649928850328166400

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

@s0osleepie

2015-10-02 12:48 UTC

@laxin84 @wolexakefuz I am. Those went up after we spoke to and verified the sources. I'll let @lizzyf620 respond though.


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[–]CartmanboyGolden Ticket 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Escapist will do nothing. Their paid agenda piece is out. They are not worth the filth under a public toilet seat. Ethics score, -100%

[–]JugbotFreelancer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have a Journalist here. A real one.

[–]MooKidsHigh Admiral 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the words of Chris Hardwick, "You win the internet!"

[–]SerLevArrisGrand Admiral 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holy shitballs.

[–]Drenmar 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't believe Chris had to waste 8 hours of his life because of something like this. God damnit.

[–]polyinky 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

OH FUCK NOW WHAT LIZZY MY DEAR?

Congratulations on your D- in journalism.

[–]SloanWarrior 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't just settle for the escapist editor, The parent company of The Escapist is Themis media who have their own editorial contact address: http://www.themis-media.com/content/contact Themis is itself part of Defy Media. I couldn't find editoral contact details for them, but I'm sure someone will know how to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defy_Media

[–]VoiceOfElixxHigh Admiral 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks like DS style of writing. He keep slander CR and uplift other devs.

[–]DevnantFreelancer 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesn´t matter if her sources are true or false. The article is garbage material anyway.

[–]grimzodzeitgeist 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

rekt, burned to the ground and stomped on, gj mrburkes

[–]starbuck1771 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

She should be removed from the escapist and never be able to write stories for the media ever again.

[–]Furlock_ODonnell 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fucking.

BEAUTIFUL.

Nice work, OP. Shine on.

[–]canastamanBounty Hunter 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

She should be fired, its obviously clickbait and it makes me sick that she's trying to bring down star citizen just to further her own career.

What a terrible human being and what a terrible site Escapists have become.

[–]Redshirt02 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Update 23: Official response from Escapist Editor-in-Chief: All sources were vetted to some degree, some of these sources posted the reviews on Glassdoor afterwards. 3 of the 7 were visually vetted over Skype. No discussion of anonymity vs. biases/motives. Lizzy was the primary point of contact and sole interviewer.

LIZ WAS THE SOLE INTERVIEWER?!

Fucking hell, THAT is really bad. They don't care about ethical standards at all. The one reporter is the only one who interviewed and THEN got green light to fire off that article? Games Journalism at its finest.

EDIT: So Liz says "Derek Smart was NOT one of the sources." Derek Smart says "I was one one of the sources." The only person who interviewed? Liz. Fuck off Escapist, this is Derek Smart quality journalism right here.

[–]themastGrand Admiral 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

As much as I want this to be true because...holy shit!...it does seem possible that the person she talked to only has a handful of quotes, and gave them both to her and posted them up on Glassdoor. She does have some quotes that are not directly from GD, so it does seem there is another channel of communication involved somewhere. That being said, the timing is interesting, and a couple of the reviews do have some telltale phrases that remind me of other people... A very interesting find still.

[–]Rumpullpus 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

it does seem possible that the person she talked to only has a handful of quotes, and gave them both to her and posted them up on Glassdoor.

word for word? what are the chances of two totally separate people at two completely different times writing exactly the same quote? ever played telephone?

[–]SerLevArrisGrand Admiral 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some of the sources may be telling the truth, but the whole article is tainted now. A journalist should be checking all their sources.