Star Citizen – The Long Con

long con: A con-job that requires a certain amount of effort and as a namesake, is usually in it for the long haul. Gaining someone’s trust for a number of months and then when the stake is in your court and you have their complete trust–taking advantage of it.”

BREAKING NEWS (09/24) : Layoffs and fallout at Santa Monica studios.

PREAMBLE

Since the beginning of July, after weeks of research into this project, I decided to write a blog post based on my findings, opinions, concerns etc. The blog that started it was, Interstellar Citizens. I already knew, going in, that I was going to attract the ire of the rabid and vocal White Knights (supporters of the project) who lash out and attack anyone who even puts together a sentence in dissent against the project. However, what I hadn’t planned for, was the widespread coverage that it would get in the media and which would suddenly get everyone talking, asking questions etc.

During the course of almost three months, I have written four (July 10th, July 17th, Aug 7th, Aug 24th) more blogs.

The bane of any investigative reporting, is that you get overwhelmed with so much material that before long, it all gets really long-winded and you can’t even get around to the TL;DR version.

So going forward, I’m going to start doing these micro-blogs in my spare time so that they are shorter, to the point etc. Given the impending legal action, that format will also serve to better chronicle the proceedings as I will make public whatever the legal system allows (e.g. if a judge grants request to have something sealed, I can’t disclose it).

WHAT IS STAR CITIZEN?

This is a crowd-funded game pitched back in 2012 by Chris Roberts on Kickstarter. At first, it had reasonable, yet lofty goals, which I will refer to as “vision 1.0“.

Shortly after raising the money ($500K, for which they raised $2.1m) they were asking for, they continued to raise money while increasing the scope of the game to what we now know to be “vision 2.0“.

Despite making several claims that at $6m, then $20m, the game could be built, as of this writing, approaching four years this Nov 2015 and $90m later, there is still no “game”.

In fact, running through an analysis of everything promised in both of the aforementioned visions, they have yet to deliver even 25% of what was promised. Yet, as of this writing, the project which was to be delivered – complete with backer rewards – by Nov 2014, is now one year late this coming Nov.

It is all nicely chronicled here in my Interstellar Breach blog.

SO WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON THEN?

The issues of contention here are many, but the most vocal ones voiced have more to do with the crazy scope of the game, than what backers were originally pitched. Yes, arguably, some backers did expect the game to take longer, and cost more. However, we don’t care about them. What we – and the Feds who oversee issues of consumer fraud care about – are the initial promises made and which haven’t been met.

In between attacking me, attacking my games, saying I am a prejudiced and biased competitor (which is hilarious, but addressed at the very end of Interstellar Breach), the very vocal White Knights will also try to convince you that this v2.0 was the game that was pitched, that your funding (aka pledge) was destined to be lost (as a gift) etc.

It’s all pure nonsense. And it’s nicely explained in this blog post by a gaming industry legal veteran.

In fact, a cursory glance at the FTC website – or just pickup the phone and call them – tells you that much (1, 2). To the extent that just a few months ago, aside from an FTC victory earlier this year, yet another crowd-funded project was successfully prosecuted in Washington State almost a year after first being filed. This was done at the State level, unlike the Federal level which falls under the purview of the FTC and the FBI (depending on merit and severity). The key issue here is that, given how long it takes for the Feds to investigate these things, it appears as if the States are now getting in on the act since it’s quicker. Which makes sense, considering that the recently passed SEC Regulation A+ means that accountability is coming to crowd-funded campaigns because it is currently an unregulated business which many have fallen prey to.

UPDATE: This blog was originally written earlier this month and was awaiting legal clearance as well as the results (e.g. by our sources in Australia and Germany) of some research material. During that time, as part of this and having spoken to several people, both on the business and legal side of crowd-funding as well as consumer fraud, Kickstarter made news when they announced on Sept 21st, that they had reformed to a Public Benefit Corporation. Here is a quote from their statement:

Until recently, the idea of a for-profit company pursuing social good at the expense of shareholder value had no clear protection under U.S. corporate law, and certainly no mandate.

At a glance, this doesn’t mean much. But to those of us in the sector and who have been calling for accountability, this is huge. And a clear indication that the largest crowd-funded source in the industry, acknowledges that there is a problem with accountability in the sector.

You see, it’s all very simple. When you ask for money to produce something, you have to produce and deliver it. The law does not allow you to change the terms of that promise, let alone run off into the sunset with the money. Unfortunately where accountability is concerned, if you can’t find the con man who conned you, then you’re out of luck. And if you do, usually you call the cops, report it to the FBI, or if it’s a company operating as a business, you can start with the FTC. Though the FBI is usually better and should be your first option. Why? Because they simply don’t mess around. Nothing strikes fear into mortal men than a call or visit from the IRS or the FBI.

And when it comes to crowd-funding, as the FTC has stated the following:

  1. Keep your promises when crowdfunding. If you promise rewards, give them.  If you promise refunds, provide them.
  2. Use the money raised from crowdfunding only for the purpose represented. If you collect money for a specified project, like creating a board game, use the money only for that purpose. Don’t use it for personal purposes or to start another project.

FAILURE TO DELIVER ON PROMISES MADE

I don’t even know where to begin….

1) They have failed to deliver the project promised to backers since 2012.

2) Said project is now almost one year overdue and from the looks of it, is two to three years away from completion. Assuming that i) they build the tech to power the game ii) they don’t run out of money

3) Other than the Citizens Card, thus far, they have failed to deliver other backer rewards promised.

4) They continue to sell ship concepts, knowing fully well that a) the total modeling workload, according to my sources, spans almost two years worth of work left to do b) there is currently no “game” with which to fly most of these ship models. Other than of course the Arena Commander module which is an embarrassingly poor and buggy mess and which most backers aren’t even playing; according to this poll.

5) Due to my blogs and all the chatter, they have now decided to continue the premature release of shoddy work product in order to somehow skirt around the non-delivery liability issue and hide behind the “guarantee of performance” clause.  With the Social Module (with a single map, ArcCorp) released less than a month ago, and which was over a year late, it joins the Hangar and Arena Commander modules as yet another disjointed, incomplete and broken mess of a product. This is what I previously stated.

As far as this project is concerned, from my observation and experience, it is my opinion that if they ever ship a completed Star Citizen game, that is true to the “vision” they have been selling, it will be a game that could have been made in four years for $20m.

Instead, with all this resource waste due to bad project management, scope creep, wasteful and improper spending etc, they would have blown through $90m and with zero accounting for where the money went. But hey, they shipped something, right? But since I don’t believe that the game – as pitched – will ever see the light of day, backers are going lose, no matter how this ends.

Here is the crucial problem with this. The minute they deliver a “game” that fits the framework they have described, regardless of how buggy or incomplete it is, the legal hurdle of accountability becomes harder to get over.

For example. You pay me $100 to build you a quality box. Then through delays you start getting irate, forcing me to deliver or face legal consequences. The end result is that I’m going to build you a flimsy box for $10. Now you have a box. I get to keep $90.

You now have to decide whether or not it’s worth coming after me for building you a cheap flimsy box.

How many times haven’t you ordered something online, received it, then had to return it because the quality or operation was not as expected? That’s what we’re facing here if we don’t push for accountability. Except in this regard, you won’t be able to return it; nor will you be able to get a refund.

Unless there is fraud and/or criminal conduct uncovered, they will get away with it; walking away with millions of dollars either through unjust enrichment, or spent foolishly in order to keep up appearances.

In case you were wondering, according to the crowd-funding campaign, at $5m, they promised to deliver 70 star systems, and $6m, there would be 100. Each one of these has a landing zone powered by this Social Module. Thus far, they have only released only one. One (!).

For context, this complete “game” consists of the following modules: Hangar, Arena Commander (space flight), Social/Planetside, Star Marine (fps), Squadron 42, Persistent Universe (derived from Arena Commander 2.0 w/ multi-ship).

Note that SQ42 is a separate bonus product at the $6m raised. It however relies on components from the other modules for operation.

6) Having failed to meet their own deadlines and promises, they quietly modified the ToS which backers agreed to when they gave money back in 2012. Let me explain in the shortest possible form.

In the original (aka “vision 1.0”) game they pitched on Kickstarter, which 34,397 backers pledged $2,134,374 to help bring this project to life, they had an “estimated” release date of Nov 2014.

According to their  ToS v1.1 of 08/29/13 they said if they failed to deliver within 12 months of Nov 2014 (the original Kickstarter estimated delivery date), they would issue refunds. At the time, this non-delivery period would kick in during Nov 2015.

IV. Charges & Billing
RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date. However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a promise by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date.

Since that time, having already i) missed the Nov 2014 delivery date and ii) embarked on the increased scope (aka “vision 2.0”), thus extending the delivery date for the project, they surreptitiously made another changed in ToS v1.2 of 02/01/15 (which remains the current one). The previous section was moved; and now reads:

VII. Fundraising & Pledges
RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date communicated to you on the Website.  However, you acknowledge and agree that delivery as of such date is not a firm promise and may be extended by RSI since unforeseen events may extend the development and/or production time. Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you withineighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.

And in the current ToS, here is a key section that ties into the above:

VII. Fundraising & Pledges
For the avoidance of doubt, in consideration of RSI’s good faith efforts to develop, produce, and deliver the Game with the funds raised, you agree that any Pledge amounts applied against the Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost shall be non-refundable regardless of whether or not RSI is able to complete and deliver the Game and/or the pledge items. In the unlikely event that RSI is not able to deliver the Game and/or the pledge items, RSI agrees to post an audited cost accounting on the Website to fully explain the use of the amounts paid for Pledge Item Cost and the Game Cost. In consideration of the promises by RSI hereunder, you agree that you shall irrevocably waive any claim for refund of any Pledge that has been used for the Game Cost and Pledge Item Cost in accordance with the above.

BUT THEY HAVE BEEN OPEN ABOUT EVERYTHING!

Again, this is an absolute fallacy that continues to be propagated by them and those who are motivated to distort the facts and conceal the truth. Here’s the thing, openness, is related to transparency and disclosures. The fact of the matter is that the “openness” these people speak of, is related to the regular community updates about the project. Well, here’s the thing. These were paid for, by backers.

@ $2m “Regular community updates”
@ $3m “Increased community updates at the RSI website”
@ $4m “The RSI website will feature a monthly “Wingman’s Hangar” webcast from the development team”

So all these dev updates, Wingman updates, 10 for the chairman etc – they were all paid for. Aside from the subscriptions which some were actually paying for btw.

You see, even in private ventures, as an investor, you have the right to know how the company is spending your money. In public corporations, they have investor calls, disclosures etc. And any mistakes or appearance of improper conduct, can lead to legal action, even before the Feds (in this case the SEC or FBI) get involved.

In the case of a crowd-funded project, the fallacy is that crowd-funding backers have no such right. Well, guess what, that’s patently false.

This company was given millions of dollars to deliver a product. They have not delivered that product. And in all likelihood, the company – and project – will both fail before they even get to delivering even 50% of what’s promised. There isn’t a single pro developer on this planet, who after looking at what has thus far been delivered, compared to what was promised up to $65m funded, will say that they can deliver this product within the next three years. That aside from the fact that I still do not believe that have the tech to do the game they pitched. In fact, since my first blog, I have already proven that much by their own dev updates which clearly show that they were still attempting to build said tech. Four years later.

And with all the tips that keep coming my way from various sources, a leaked letter (UPDATE – 09/24: David reached out to me through back channels to let me know that his letter (not company property btw) was never intended to be made public. So I have removed it) sent to me anonymously and alleged to have been written by David Jennison (I don’t know who he is, but I did look him up) prior to his departure, is particularly eye opening (assuming that you haven’t been to their Glassdoor listing).

Though not unsurprising to anyone who has either worked with Chris Roberts or who has read the many media reports about his gaming industry failings, I have written about this very issue (cited in David’s letter) in a prior blog. It’s all there.

The number of stellar industry veterans (e.g. Travis Day, Alex Mayberry et al) who have come and gone from this project on short notice and under highly suspicious circumstances (nobody’s talking, but that’s what makes depositions fun) should be a cause for great concern for this project. These people, one and all (we have a running list), made up the star team attracted to the idea of being a part of something great, something remarkable, something exceptional. In most cases, they were uprooted from area studios with lofty promises, and as has been reported elsewhere, leaving behind projects they were working on. That also adds to the level of disruption that this project has wrought on the gaming industry proper. And it’s no secret because everyone in the industry has been talking about this very thing since 2012.

So, with the failure to deliver, coupled with the triggers in their own ToS (as per item #6 above), that “openness” should come in the form of how the money has been spent. Let’s set aside for a minute the fact that they surreptitiously modified the original agreement they had with backers and which clearly required them to issue refunds and financial accounting by Nov 2015.

Let’s continue with the openness discussion shall we?

In every venture, you trust the people that you give money to. Any financial arrangement, involves a degree of trust. We all trusted Chris Roberts when he came to us asking for money to build our dream game (dubbed BDSSE). Nobody thought twice about what had happened to Chris in over a decade (!) since he was gone, what he was up to (aside from making a string of bad movies, raising a family etc). No, he was neither rich, nor successful in Hollywood. This is a fact. What’s made him somewhat rich now, is this project and backer money.

So imagine my surprise when it was revealed to me that him being married to Sandi Gardiner, the lady who went on the record (they have since removed the original article, then posted a new one three weeks ago, Sept 1st) saying “although I’m not sure about the title VP as it stands for Vice-President and there isn’t anyone above me in the Marketing Department“, was a closely kept secret  – and which was never disclosed to any of the backers.

Have you seen the sheer volume of material that she’s been a part of in the community? To this day, most in that community either a) don’t believe that they are married or b) they discard it as being a personal matter. Completely disregarding the gravity and important of this single issue.

In fact, nobody even bothered to ask any questions when, out of the Blue, she was credited as the co-creator (!) of Star Citizen. An actress with zero ties to the gaming industry, zero experience in anything related to marketing of any kind and for which no record of such experience exists anywhere on planet Earth. The only tangible connection she has to the project, is being the wife of Chris Roberts. Period. End of story.

And when the investigators were done, to add to the mystery, it was discovered that not only had she lied (1, 2 @ 18:45 note: these keep disappearing but we have archives) about attending UCLA Anderson School of Management and having marketing credentials (1, 2, 3 <– this is new, we’re looking into it) from there, but that she was still pursuing her career while shooting personal projects, hosting reading sessions (1, 2, 3, 4) on company property (that’s the RSI/CIG conference room btw in those images and videos), using company assets, and in one report from our sources, backer money to fund it.

To the extent that shortly after my Interstellar Breach blog in which I first posted about the other movie, Elle, this thread appeared on RSI forums.

There was no official RSI comment anywhere in the community. No, instead, one of the RSI community members (thennessy-cig), in what can only be regarded as plausible deniability (so they can later say that it wasn’t an official statement), posted this disclaimer on a Reddit thread.

Hey guys, Elle was a short film Sandi directed on her own, outside of her work at CIG. No one from the office worked on it, and she did not use any of our in house equipment in the filming of it. No subscriber or backer funds were used at all for it.

I’m pretty sure that the only reason Berenice listed CIG on her resume was because she didn’t know what else to list for the production company.”

It’s  false.

The entire movie first draft was reportedly shot by an ex-employee named Brian Dickson, on RSI’s own equipment (Canon 5D cameras), and there’s proof of this. The invoices were all reported to have been billed to the company. Further, liability, insurance, SAG/AFTRA, signatory costs etc are all assumed by the company since Sandi, not being signatory, can’t personally sign anything related to any movie shoot. Only the company – of which she is an officer – can be a signatory. That’s how it works.

UPDATE: On Sept 21st, after another thread showed up on Reddit following this tweet I made about her shooting movies on company premises, a new thread appeared on Reddit with a group of people asking for an explanation. Shortly after,  Sandi made this tweet (in case they delete it, here is a screen cap) in which she stated thus:

no not shot at the studios and CIG was a mistake on the DPs resume – was under Gemini 42 and all extras I personally paid

Well, here’s the problem. Gemini 42 is a wholly owned subsidiary of RSI (1, 2). So she’s admitted – right there in the public record – that this is all true.

And before you start talking about them being married is a personal matter etc – don’t. She’s the “co-creator” of the largest crowd-funded project in history. She’s not someone in the sidelines, in the background or any of that. So her integrity and credibility are important. Plus, she’s a public figure. She’s right there, front and center of this project and is one of the people entrusted with $90m in public money and with zero accountability.

And she’s a liar; and by all reported accounts and allegations thus far, a fraud.

Look at it from the bright side, Chris is just incompetent and a liar. So there is that.

The third person in this circus, is this fellow, Ortwin. There is a whole history there between him, Chris, and failed German movie investment ventures. I had promised to keep this blog short (hey, I tried!), so I have trimmed that off for another blog. It’s a fantastic read, complete with translated court documents. Thanks to my German friends and contacts for helping out with that one. As soon as I publish that, it will all be clear why we should be asking questions about this project and the people we gave all this money to.

So these are the people we gave $90m to, who have yet to deliver any product and have thus far not accounted for any of this money.

UPDATE: After I had written this blog, my sources notified me that she has recently hired a new marketing person from the mobile sector on a three month probation period, with a view to this new hire replacing her in marketing so she can exit the company. More as this develops.

RIGHT. SO NOW WHAT?

On Aug 21st, I had my CA attorneys, working in concert with my FL attorneys, draft a demand letter which was sent to RSI. That letter asked for three things which, by RSI’s own declarations in their ToS, backers are entitled to.

1) Accounting for backer money
2) An accurate completion date for the project
3) Refunds for all those who requested it

You would think that a company that was looking to do the right thing would find these to be reasonable. As I had posted before, we fully expected them to either ignore the letter, or tell us to go pound sand.

They exceeded my expectations. Here, please read their response which attorneys received on Aug 28th, and which I got to see on Sept 3rd.

The original version of this blog, contained detailed responses to each paragraph of their letter. But as part of my bid to keep this blog short, I removed them in favor of our Sept 14th response instead.

Basically…

1) The “personal address” info he’s talking about, is related to the Zillow listing from one of my blogs. In other words, public record with no relevance or anything identifying any of the parties. It was there to show what backer money was being spent on. They never lived in such luxury before this project.

2) The issue with the first refund check is pure bullshit. If they sent it to the wrong address, it would have been returned to them. Even after a month. Despite that, I had my office call them to let them know that it had been received.

3) This part, I want to excerpt for context because it should concern every backer of this project.

Firstly, there is obviously no legal basis for your client’s request and your letter cites no such authority. Secondly, the ample information provided regularly on our extensive website, including monthly progress reports from each studio, published headcounts and the like, would enable any person familiar with the cost of game development to assess the proper spending of the funds raised. Your client claims to be such an experienced person, so we are a bit perplexed about this demand coming in particular from him.”

Just ponder that for a moment. In fact, when I made the above excerpt public, here is a response from a former backer who was lucky to have received a refund through my efforts. Quoted verbatim:

Is he serious?

When I was a Backer I had no idea (and still don’t today) how to “assess the proper spending of the funds raised” based on Bugsmashers, Around the Verse, 10 for the Chairman, Wingman’s Hangar and Meet the Devs. The monthly status reports told me nothing about how much money was spent on X, how much on Y, how much for this cost, and how much for that cost.

It’s interesting we had this conversation on your blog and in private and the conclusion was made that there were just too many variables and not enough information available to figure out how much money CIG has spent and how much remains. We came up with a ballpark of 2-3 million per month that CIG needs to make in order to meet obligations but that was based on pure conjecture. All of our discussions were based on, as Mr. Freyermuth calls it, “ample information provided regularly on our extensive website”.

No one can understand CIG’s financials based on anything they’ve published because all of it is marketing material. The conclusion is Mr. Freyermuth is lying, which isn’t surprising given Chris Roberts’ rampant misleading statements.”

Thing is, this is nonsense. No such information exists. And he’s saying that backers should rely on the word of people who have, time and time again, lied about one thing or the other with this project. That’s like telling the IRS you spent money on travel without showing the receipts of any airline tickets. This is precisely what everyone keeps complaining about, hence the calls for financial accountability.

4) The personal attacks were just laughable. First, I have no tax liens. The fact of the matter is that I tend to make too much (if the IRS says you owe close to $250K, you probably shouldn’t be complaining about income) money due to my various investments. And when you are self-employed and the IRS sends you a bill for under-reporting, the minute you dispute it – as most tend to do – they automatically file a lien (which goes in the public record) against you if the amount is over $25K. That’s a fact. It’s pretty much tantamount to how they handle rampant asset forfeiture. The IRS hits first, then asks questions later. And the liens they dug up from public records and which he is talking about, are from 2003, 2004. And they were removed (marked as satisfied) once the matter was closed, mere months later. It’s all right there in the public record.

As to the bankruptcy. That one was funny, especially considering that, even though it was recorded as discharged less than two months later, there’s more to the story than that, and an ID theft police report actually exists for it. And that was back in 1998 btw. And it was actually a huge discussion on UseNet back in the day.

And when you see someone who has a string of failed Hollywood and videogame projects, having been unceremoniously ejected from the industry, and whose last game was decades ago, talking about failures, you know that they’re clutching at straws. It’s rather embarrassing for them if you ask me.

So yeah, they had to go dumpster diving for dirt apparently. Whatever. Good thing I don’t have a criminal record, parking or speeding tickets etc, they’d probably have thrown a party.

And yes, I’m making their letter with this information public because, i) it’s going into the public record anyway, since it’s going to be in our complaint ii) unlike them, I have nothing to hide. I am surprised they stopped there, to be honest. In fact, we already expected this sort of thing, which is precisely why I wrote my Urban Legend blog once it became clear that we were headed for legal action and that attacking someone’s credibility was going to be the first thing on the table.

It should be noted that, around the same time of their letter, I had been doxed (some of the material wasn’t even mine) over on the MassivelyOP website (a click-bait site that is seemingly the premier Star Citizen media shill site) by one of the White Knights who had also done the same thing on Reddit. Facing the threat of implied legal action since doxing is criminal in every State, after them going back and forth with my legal and my office, MassivelyOp acted quickly to remove the material. Reddit had already removed it of their own accord.

I’ve been around the block for a minute. I’m an old school Internet denizen. I’m used to being attacked. None of this fazes me. And I have absolutely nothing to lose. So if they think that they’re going to stop me by sending their White Knight goons to attack me, try to discredit (that’s always hilarious) and/or harass me into silence, they’re shockingly naive. All that does is strengthen my resolve and proves to the world at large that there is something going on here. Attacking the messenger is usually the method employed when you want to bury the message.

So these are the sort of people that we’re dealing with.

Remember, I was once a backer who gave $250 to this project, right from the start back in 2012. And as I wrote in my Interstellar Justice blog, shortly after my first blog hit, and it got propagated, they refunded me without my asking, made it public both on their forums and by releasing a press statement. Something they haven’t done to any other backer. As in ever. They made it personal.

THE END GAME

As they have been advised, we are left with no choice but to take legal action because it’s the only way that we are going to be able to get to the bottom of this, as they clearly have no intentions of doing the right thing.

In addition to that, we’ve already sent complaints and detailed (you think my blogs are detailed? If you knew half the stuff that’s not even made public yet, your hair will turn White) reports to the Federal and State authorities. As I’ve said before, what the authorities choose to do, is up to them. My guess is that given the sheer amount of money involved, coupled with the compiled material, there is no way they can ignore this.

While this has all been going on since my first blog, they have been quietly giving out refunds. Even to people who were refused refunds months before my first blog hit.

And barely a month ago, as he has done so many times in the past, Chris Roberts is still making promises (1, 2) that the game is now coming out in 2016. I remember back when he said it was coming in 2014. Then it was coming in 2015.

In my opinion, what has gone on with this project is tantamount to a long con. Regardless, given what has transpired with this project, it is clear that every single person who put money into this project, is now at great risk of losing their investment. RSI/CIG do not have the capability to develop nor deliver this product as promised. At $65m, they already had an insurmountable amount of work they promised to deliver. Seriously, take a look (1, 2). And they have thus far received $90m and climbing. Four years later, still no game, or anything that even resembles one. Not even 25% of a game.

Edward H. Smith lists the “six definite steps or stages of growth in every finely balanced and well-conceived confidence game.”

1. Foundation Work – The preparations, which are made before the scheme is put in motion, including the elaboration of the plan, the employment of assistants, and so forth.

They spent a year creating a very expensive tech demo.

2. Approach – The manner of getting in touch with the victim — often most elaborately and carefully prepared.

They announced Star Citizen at GDC 2012. Then released a movie of the tech demo in a Kickstarter campaign to incredible reception.

3. Build-up – Rousing and sustaining the interest of the victim, introducing the scheme to him, and filling him with so much anticipation and cupidity that his judgment is warped and his caution thrown away.

They have been doing a constant stream of marketing videos, convention events, concept and ship sales etc. All designed to keep raising funds and selling items for a game that doesn’t exist. This despite the fact that they had pledged – in writing – never to spend backer money on marketing or PR.

4. Pay-off or Convincer – An actual or apparent paying of money by the conspirators to convince the victim and settle doubts by a cash demonstration. In the old banco game, the initial small bets which the victim was allowed to win were the pay-off. In stock swindles, the fake dividends sent to stockholders to encourage larger investments are the pay-off.

The largely broken and buggy game modules (Hangar, Arena Commander, Social Module) exist for the sole purpose of convincing backers to continue pouring money into the project. This is evidenced by the money raised with each convention, each periodic ship sale etc. For example, the recent GameCom 2015 which proved beyond the shadow of doubt, that most of the funding comes from existing backers.

5. The Hurrah – This is like the denouement in a play, and no con scheme is complete without it. It is a sudden crisis or unexpected development by which the mark is pushed over the last doubt or obstacle and forced to act. Once the hurrah is sprung, either the scammer has total control, or the con fails.

Let’s start with the revision of the ToS and the surreptitious revision that added another six months to the accountability time line. Then work our way toward the reveals in the dev blogs which show the crisis in various parts of the project. The recent lockdown of the RSI forums making critical areas accessible only to backers, is part of giving them control over dissenting opinions.

6. The In-and-In – This is the point in a con game where the conspirator puts some of his money into the deal with that of the victim; first, to remove the last doubt that may tarry in the gull’s mind, and, second, to put the con man in control of the situation after the deal is completed, thus forestalling a squeal. Often, the whole game is built up around this feature, and just as often, it does not figure at all.

As I explained above, once they end up “delivering” a bunch of buggy, incomplete modules, probably meshed together to form some type of “game”, backers are likely to end up with a $10 box, at the cost of $100. And with no legal recourse whatsoever because they did in fact deliver a “box” as promised.

My next blog, “Star Citizen – The Great Internet Heist” is in progress and will be out next month; unless something really important happens before then. In which case, I will probably release an interim update.

UPDATE: While I was waiting clearance for the blog, a notorious and controversial White Knight (featured in this fiasco) posted a response letter he received to an FOIA request. Then, taking a break from attacking me, he proceeded to spam all the media outlets in an attempt to do what they always do: use the media to further an agenda of disinformation about this project. That seemingly failed, with spectacular results. But of course MassivelyOp created click-bait out of it.

This is the same guy who, last we checked, was over $20K (!) invested in the project, has been featured by RSI in the past, called out for his ludicrous and abusive Star Citizen advocacy, then subsequently banned from RSI forums for good measure. In fact, he’s one of the primary whales who continues to lash out at anyone, including other backers, who even put a sentence together that has any sort of dissent against Star Citizen. Go to any media or game forum where Star Citizen is the subject, and you’ll find him there. Guaranteed.

What’s even more curious is that they don’t even know how an FOIA request works. The agency responds to specific queries, and have specific exceptions to what they can, cannot respond to. Particularly an active investigation – if one does in fact exist. It says so right there in Exception #7.

Aside from that, I don’t even know where they get the idea from that RSI/CIG were under any active investigation.  I know I never said it; and I again clarified that in this tweet. And reporting a matter to the authorities doesn’t automatically start an investigation, nor will they even divulge that information even if there was. By their (these White Knights) submission, you might as well pick any company that’s been reported to the FTC, then send a FOIA request to the FTC asking for details. Good luck with that.

Simply put, it doesn’t happen like that. And another Star Citizen fan went to the trouble of actually trying to explain it, as have others.

The wording in the response is key. So let me quote it for context:

Our search of the FTC’s records did not identify any record that would respond to your request. If you believe that you have additional information that may help locate responsive records, please submit a new FOIA request with further details

The gist here is that they’re obviously worried, as they should be. Regardless of what happens to RSI/CIG via a lawsuit, State or Federal action or whatever, in my expert opinion, unless they cut and run, the project is completely FUBAR and there is absolutely no way around it.

ps: I have decided to fund an independent third-party investigation into this project.

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442 Comments on "Star Citizen – The Long Con"

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MDrake
8 hours 59 minutes ago

Ortwin has just dropped a massive demand letter in the “Chairman Response” as an update. I don’t know if the Escapist and Defy will wimp out, or take it to the face though. I want to know the truth of the project, but I see this as a bigger version of Chris’s response to potentially hide something. I sure hope Lizzy’s sources were real and factual, at least for her sake. This whole thing has been a 1 up over the other, and no one is playing all their cards at once.

I really want to know what the hell is up with $90 million and so little progress, especially in the technology that runs the gameplay. I bet there are tons of art assets already produced, just like the leak, but that doesn’t matter. Zealots may not care, but I do. Derek, I hope you know something Lizzy doesn’t and will be able to reveal it soon. I find the timing of another ship sale DURING the Endeavor sale to be damning suspicious.

Thedig
9 hours 25 minutes ago

Well looks like CIG is about to be the first to publically enter into a legal battle over this and not with you Derek! Who’d have thought lol. Will be very interesting to see Escapist response. Personally I think they’ll wimp out and just take the stuff down but if not it’ll be entertaining to see this unfold!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

robmc
1 day 1 hour ago

I spotted this whole dodgy thing at $20m when CR decided he needed a Mo Cap studio instead of just hiring one. I voiced on the forums that this wasn’t right and there was another agenda here but was basically smashed by the White Knights. A Backer from the start with a ‘golden ticket’ that allows me to get ‘more invested’ in the game. Not likely – $35 is my loss TFFT

mark
4 hours 11 minutes ago

They ended up just hiring one anyway rendering that stretch goal utterly useless.

max
1 day 6 hours ago

star citizen is one of the greatest cons ever. Chris Roberts has my complete admiration for how he has been able to pull this off. But Derek Smart? Really? What good con has he ever pulled that entitles him to this opinion? I can’t even…

Rafael
1 day 20 hours ago

“Page cannot be crawled or displayed due to robots.txt.”

Went on a wayback machine to see if I could spot one deleted comment on a SC support forum at reddit( https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://np.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3n6ti6/unverified_update_on_the_escapist_starcitizen/ ), and find myself confronted with that text. Later went into your twitter, just to find info that Sandra had implemented some new technology into blocking undesireds from reading and posting about.

Can that be confirmed; that more backers money/resources are been diverted into something besides the freaking game? Or I just imagining things?

Grampy_Bone
1 day 23 hours ago

I swear, when this whole thing crashes and burns, the cuck fanboys are going to blame Derek for “ruining” the game, just for pointing out the obvious.

This whole thing is shady as hell. It’s the same red flags as Daikatana and DNF. There’s no excuse for Roberts to not have a game out by now. None! Elite: Dangerous was produced, funded, developed, and shipped, all in less time–last year! CIG should have a game that is *at least* as complete as Elite; with 10 times the staff and 30(!!!) times the funding, there is no excuse.

All we hear from Roberts is goalpost shifting. Now he is saying the game was always going to take 5 years and he never promised a 2 year dev time. Then he whines about “game development is so hard and boo hoo hoo and hey remember Wing Commander that was cool right?” Yeah man, back on a Pentium 90! STFU with this nonsense.

They want to add story campaigns, landable planets, fps mode–great! But make the damn game first. What are they actually ‘adding FPS’ to, concept art??? Then he opens FOUR friggin’ studios?! Who does he think he is, John Romero?

In short, Derek called it, but we all saw the smoke. You’d be a fool not to be worried.

Roger Williams
2 days 2 hours ago

Whoops! I forgot to link the reddit thread. So I’ll just rewrite this.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3n6lum/escapist_anonymous_sources_uncovered/

Many people are finding it very suspicious that these negative reviews were all published at the same time, just a few days before the Escapist article was published. These reviews seem to be the primary source of the Escapist article as they are quoted almost verbatim.

What do you think of this? Do you believe the timing and frequency of these reviews were a coincidence or were they intentional? Who do you think wrote them? Are they legitimate?

Thank you again for always opening yourself up to questions
Roger Williams

Roger Williams
2 days 3 hours ago

A recent thread was posted on Reddit makes the sources used in the Escapist article rather suspicious. While there is no proof to confirm or deny any foul play, these negative reviews were all posted in a quick time span right before the article was created.

What do you think about this? Do you think the timing of these reviews are a mere coincidence or do you believe they were intentional? If they were intentional do you know who might have written these, and why they chose to post them all around the same time?

Thank you for always opening yourself to questions

Kxmode
2 days 11 hours ago
Walter
2 days 12 hours ago

Holy Shit.

I take back what I said about really wanting to like Chris Roberts. His first response to the Escapist article is to *attack the person who wrote it.*

“Here’s a screencap of Liz F making fun of a feminist of Twitter. I hear she supports Gamergate. It’d be a shame if people would go pester her. Go forth, my flying monkeys!”

What. An. Ass.

Clint Howard's Ghost
2 days 18 hours ago

Damn, Derek! How big must your smile be today? Clearly you are getting to Chris Roberts and he now sees you in every shadow… all of his enemies, all those doubters… clearly all controlled by Derek Smart! If he responded professionally, I’d have given him the benefit of the doubt. But wow, he comes off sleep deprived, on powerful sativa MJ, and paranoid as hell in his completely unhinged response.

Clearly you’re on the right track. Proceed, sir. Putting this little scam to bed sooner rather than later might save a lot of potential backers money they could spend on proper games. Like Elite: Dangerous, which I’m afraid is about to prove you wrong on planetary landings. Aw well, ya can’t win ’em all! Still, competence and sound project management FDEV style make it a lot easier to achieve seemingly impossible things. Nutjobs like Chris Roberts at the helm won’t help much.

Kxmode
2 days 14 hours ago

Chris ignored Derek for months choosing to vaguely mention him and trying to divert any questions to his game. He’s only forced now to directly respond because a legitimate investigative media article was published, and it’s spreading to Forbes and other media outlets. CIG is heavily reliant on the media to keep fueling CIG’s hype car. This is the only reason Chris finally decided to respond.

jcrg99
2 days 15 hours ago

Don’t think that the Planetary Landing of ED will prove DS wrong, because they are not targetting that level of fidelity on each tiny little thing for visual appeal, They are doing something, balanced. It won’t be the “holy grail”, but balanced and with a bit of imagination you can even consider that a kind of “holy grail” ;D

And planets with skies, cities, etc., will certainly take a long time to appear in that game. Still… if there is someone that seems to prove focus and capacity and good management of budget, that guy has been David Braben. Besides, they have a good engine. They don’t need to make FPS mechanics in the style of CIG. They can make it totally different, without that level intended for CIG, but still good/pretty and balanced… boarding totally different, etc. etc.

I trust that those guys will continue to deliver actual good stuff. I have no reason to do not believe. And if they fail on something, they did not make this absolute outrageous level of cash grabbing and false advertising that CIG did.

One or two mistakes we can pass… Repetitive lies and misleading, trying to dumb-down the public is unnaceptable.

Clint Howard's Ghost Again
1 day 11 hours ago

Definitely. I mean the difference is obvious when a competent project manager and leader like David Braben, who never stopped delivering games… is able to couple ambition with ability, not biting off more than they can chew and diving things up into chunks which build on each other rather than the hopelessly broken parallel modules of SC, which will never fit together more than extremely clunkily. Knowing the Cobra Engine inside and out instead of having to hire away castoffs of a floundering CryTek sure help too.

If anybody is on track to make the BDSSE, it’s Braben and his hardworking team. Their patch notes are pure nerd porn and it’s such an incredible contrast to CIG’s pompous blowharding and poor results. Leave it to a bunch of folks in Cambridge to make chumps out of Chris. The VR experience alone is an incredible achievement and will never be matched by CIG.

Farjon
2 days 19 hours ago

Mr. Smart, I don’t play this kind of games, (I’m more of offline games) but I saw all of this matter in the media, and looked for info about both sides. Chris Roberts says something, you say the opposite, and I have no idea who is right and who is wrong. Both sides seemed like reasonable to me.

All of this seems to be summed (if I have understood all OK) in that Chris Roberts is trying to make a game which you say it’s undoable.

The only question I have is: If you are right, why don’t let him try to end that game, and time will prove? if that’s the case, he would be finnished forever in the industry, and would owe you several apologies.

Thank you, have a nice day.

MKDAWUSS
2 days 19 hours ago

How much of what he said about you was true? There was a lot on that was said, so I understand if that takes a while.

That aside, it is nice to hear Chris himself address the issue (presumably without a PR filter), as for the most part, it had been you doing most of the talking (with a few brief responses from either Ben Lesnick or the RSI Legal Team). If RSI was in financial trouble, do you think they would inform their backers? When it came to that, CR denied things rather than debunked them – and there is a difference between the two. And I guess to be fair, would you inform people if 3000AD was in financial trouble, putting the status of Line of Defense in question?

Next, what’s the endgame? Say you get what you’re asking – financial disclosures, the Kickstarter version of Star Citizen, and resignations of Chris, Sandi, and others – what happens then? OK, now (at that point in time) we know where the money went, now someone would presumably have to start over as the Kickstarter version of Star Citizen has long sailed for the current version that’s being developed, and someone would have to fill the vacancies that were created by those resignations. And then there are also the refunds to take into account, as a good number will probably then want their money back, burned by what just happened. The refunds alone may be a mess!

I’m just a concerned backer who doesn’t want the starship to crash into the sun because 2 egos went at it and everyone else. was too busy picking sides to notice the ship is off course.

Gary
2 days 5 hours ago

I get where you’re coming from, but it would be a mistake to think this issue is just Derek vs. Chris. Chris obviously thinks it is, and his completely unhinged tirade yesterday pretty much cements this.

On the other side, however, there are people other than Derek working various legal methods to make RSI accountable. Derek is just the most visible one.

Singling him out was probably the biggest mistake RSI could have possibly made. And while they’re single-mindedly attacking him, the shot that kills them will be the one they never heard fired.

MKDAWUSS
15 hours 27 minutes ago

“I get where you’re coming from, but it would be a mistake to think this issue is just Derek vs. Chris. Chris obviously thinks it is, and his completely unhinged tirade yesterday pretty much cements this.”

It’s not just Chris who think like it is, but also his staff and supporters (who IMO made it so). As a result, enough people are munching on a nice red herring (or two!) while the real problem (if there is one) develops unchecked.

“On the other side, however, there are people other than Derek working various legal methods to make RSI accountable. Derek is just the most visible one.
Singling him out was probably the biggest mistake RSI could have possibly made. And while they’re single-mindedly attacking him, the shot that kills them will be the one they never heard fired.”

I think they singled him out because there was really no one else to respond to. Those others are still staying in the shadows, leaving vocal Derek Smart as the only option. There was a bit of what he should have done, which was answering the allegations made, but you had to make it down a wall-of-text to find it. I get that delays in development happen and that people come and go – they’ve been fairly decent about keeping the backers updated about what’s going on in regards to delays of otherwise-imminently-released-content. And they have allowed for more community feedback in development than most other places would usually allow. They’re able to “get it right” in the end.

My concern rests more in whether or not the Persistent Universe will be able to deliver on the hype being generated and the expectations raised. I think Squadron 42 will be good, though we know very little about it besides that it’ll be this generation’s Wing Commander. Hopefully, we’ll learn more about SQ42 next week, but I get the feeling most of it will still be kept secret. Maybe I should start shifting my concerns down from the PU and onto SQ42!

I’m a neutral in all this (I still support the project that is Star Citizen, but I’m not on the Bash Derek Smart Brigade), but it’s slowly becoming an awkward place to be.

Hyco Cam
2 days 21 hours ago

The writing has been on the wall for a long time. The first seismic upheaval back in the Spring of 2014 portended the problems to come. Back then a few current (at that time) and recently axed employees lamented that if the game never got made Yoko Gardiner would be a major reason. Anyhow–feel free to use this image should you wish:

The similarities are mind boggling. :)

You sure have been getting shit on by the Knights of CIG. Hope folks are dropping some coin on your game out of curiosity.

Starchick
2 days 22 hours ago

OMG! That very image was mailed around Warthog when everything started to fall apart :-)

CrazyBlackParrot
3 days 20 minutes ago

Well this is funny, in Chris his response he says this ” …and then finally ending up by doxing myself, my wife and one of my daughters with this sequence of tweets. ” and the link to Sandi. So he just came forward telling us it is indeed his wife.

Cool.

Gary
3 days 4 hours ago

Ponzi scheme similarities (quotes grabbed as needed from the Wikipedia entry):

– “Ponzi schemes occasionally begin as legitimate businesses, until the business fails to achieve the returns expected. The business becomes a Ponzi scheme if it then continues under fraudulent terms. Whatever the initial situation, the perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme.”

Vision 1.0 was the original legitimate offering. Stretch goals and inability to meet the original goals, even when the funds ballooned well beyond the amount they initially said they needed, makes this a legitimate comparison.

– “Initially the promoter will pay out high returns to attract more investors, and to lure current investors into putting in additional money. Other investors begin to participate, leading to a cascade effect.”

In this case, the “returns” could be analogous to the staged demos, constant videos, and the early Alpha release of the few game systems that are functioning. One-sided media coverage helps this along. Word spreads to other gamers who see how cool this could be, and throw their cash in the pot as well. The momentum builds.

– “The “return” to the initial investors is paid out of the investments of new entrants, and not out of profits.”

This would be the fact that each ship sale raises funds not to build that ship, but rather to fund the build of previously sold ships, not to mention just to keep the lights on and keep development running apace. At this point, if donations stop, the game collapses.

– “If a few investors do wish to withdraw their money in accordance with the terms allowed, their requests are usually promptly processed, which gives the illusion to all other investors that the fund is solvent.”

This attribute is met by their recent sudden willingness to refund donations. They’ve been very careful to make sure the media reports on how trouble-free those refunds are, reinforcing the appearance that everything is on the up-and-up. They’re counting on the number of refunds being relatively low in the overall scheme.

So how does this unravel?

– “When a Ponzi scheme is not stopped by the authorities, it sooner or later falls apart for one of the following reasons:”

– “1) The promoter vanishes, taking all the remaining investment money (which excludes payouts to investors already made)”

This would be the company simply closing its doors. Certainly possible.

– “2) Since the scheme requires a continual stream of investments to fund higher returns, once investment slows down, the scheme collapses as the promoter starts having problems paying the promised returns (the higher the returns, the greater the risk of the Ponzi scheme collapsing). Such liquidity crises often trigger panics, as more people start asking for their money, similar to a bank run.”

I think this is the way things will go, but not for the exact same reasons. The “panic” won’t be people demanding money back, but simply the donations slowing down so much that the burn rate of the company eliminates remaining capital, triggering the collapse.

Arm and a Leg
4 days 13 hours ago

My two main problems with this article are that it didn’t exist and I didn’t hear of this blog BEFORE I handed over my money through the RSI website. At least the damage done was minimal (Although still significant.) compared to some other people who have invested what can only be described as a small fortune.

Good luck with your investigation and I hope you find something useful.

jcrg99
4 days 21 hours ago

Just like to let this here:

These are the skills and capabilities of Sandi Gardiner, which was dealing with customer support in that time too, besides Marketing, paid with backers money and promised by his own advertising (The Pledge), to treat the backers with the same respect as a publisher.

I wonder if that is the way that publishers were treated by Roberts and co. in their career.

Definitely the degree of Marketing and “Health”, that she publicized to justify her position today on twitter, did not help her here. Besides, in my book, last that I heard people with a degree, first work in trainee or beginner positions, instead been assigned as VP of Marketing, managing HR and in the past customer support too, possibly earning a good share of profit with one of the higher salaries in a company.

Obviously, nothing to do with nepotism, right?

Kxmode
4 days 11 hours ago

In her signature she put “BSc. MBA Grap Dip Ed.” Does anyone know what that means. As to her conduct it could have been handled much better. She has in the past been nice. She was for my case http://pastebin.com/mSM29KZs – Maybe because I asked for a full refund in the early days when the number of people asking was much smaller.

Ante Vukorepa
4 days 3 hours ago

No idea what that’s supposed to mean as a whole, but B Sc. is bachelor of science (doesn’t say which), MBA is master of business administration, and Grap dip ed is graduate diploma in education.

As to the sig itself… I’ve got an M Sc. in computing/electrical engineering, but have never used it in a signature, nor see the point.

Greggy_D
4 days 21 hours ago

And don’t forget about the metric shit-ton of physical items CIG needs to deliver eventually. Boxed games, posters, hardbound books/manuals, USB keys, ship models, etc. All of which have already been promised to and paid for by backers. These are not going to be cheap.

Ben
4 days 14 hours ago

Physical items hell they have yet to give the in game stretch goal items that were supposed to be the first components off their new “pipeline” that would be useful today in game. That would be the $52, $55 and $56 million dollar stretch goals

Michael van Hulst
4 days 23 hours ago

death threats huh? not really surprised about that..
But where is the official ramblings out of the corporate mouths of RSI.
Prank or what ever! the first thing that they had to do go on the forums and defuse any stupid idea’s those idiots might get.

Any respectable company would at least say something.. I can not find it.

And in my opinion that guy should be prosecuted in what ever country he lives.

Michael

RyanC
5 days 2 hours ago

I am literally straddling the line here.

One: I do not a stripped down version of this game. If that means they are going to raise millions of dollars in ship sales, well welcome to America. I don’t think it’s my place to tell you how to spend your money as much as I don’t think it’s your place to tell these people how to spend theirs. If I felt preventing people from making bad buying decisions fell on me, I’d be a perpetually busy person.

Two: Your interference has the potential to lead CIG down a path to creating a stripped down game. They can say “Hey, we delivered our game” and not be lying. If I wanted a ship-to-ship only combat game with precious little depth, I’d be playing Elite right now.

Three: The White Knights who back this game are insufferable. They literally love this game the way a three year old loves his mother. “Mommy is great, mommy is so smart, mommy is perfect” that they have abandoned all rational thought.

They cannot explain how the person from April’s “meet the devs” put in her two week notice. They cannot rationally explain how multiple producers have left/quit this project to go work elsewhere…MID-PROJECT. Yeah, they may not stay around forever but I think lasting more than a year is not asking too much.

Personal reasons? Can someone explain how quitting your job (presumably with benefits) makes personal reasons make any sense? I know when I’m having trouble in life, what usually sorts it out is quitting my only source of income.

I am not a fan of you, or of these white knights. P.S. White knight seems to be a pretty fancy word for “myopic fanboy.”

Just the idea that they hired a model/C actress to head up marketing…who does that? Seriously, in this economy where the U-6 unemployment rate is hovering around 10%, who goes “I want someone with zero industry experience and who cannot provide insight and guidance based on past projects, to manage what amounts to one of the most important things we do…SELL THE SHIT OUT OF THIS GAME!” Of course, they have a marketing budget of zero, which tells me how much faith they have in this person.

How would you even meet her? If I started a business tomorrow, am I searching LinkedIn for models? What keyword would trigger HER resume coming up. I want to start a business, then hire Alyssa Milano to run my marketing department. Maybe I can get Tara Reid to head up the art department.

Can someone please tell me the story of when CIG interviewed Sandi Gardiner? The internet seems to be scrubbed clean of Chris Roberts marriage, which is impressive, and if she is in fact his wife…that’s just so insane. It took a chance to humanize and share their lives with the backers and has literally turned it into something that is now such an elephant in the room, that if it escaped now it would be pretty damn strange.

If true, I bet 85% of the people backing this game, would be floored to learn they are married. Again, either she’s ex-CIA and has done a great job covering her tracks, or someone over there is a pro at SEO.

I will also say, that most of them have not been in, or worked in the business world. Phrases like “run rate” mean, to them, how fast you can sprint. They don’t get accountability. They don’t get the idea of “groupthink” that exists when everyone thinks the same thing. That being said…

…as a private enterprise they are under no obligation to provide YOU with any of that. Again, free enterprise. Crowdfunding is this whole new thing, and I’m sure the laws and precedents are being written with every new case, but even if they were to be investigated, they results of that investigation should remain private. You can have your cake (accountability), but you do not get to eat it too (poring over the financial details).

I have always liked working for private companies, because shareholders suck and all they think about is quarterly profits. I do not want that to change, but there should be someone with a CPA attached to their name keeping track of things.

They should WANT to provide that information, and I would think backers/investors would care but I know that about 5% of their backers would be able to do anything with those numbers and I am being generous with the 5%. Very generous.

YXZ
5 days 4 hours ago

Im very confused now, what is this “downgrade” they are talking about, and why this is sensitive to web design? Manually edit database? WTF is going on? Is this how you install or remove gear? What other game in the universe had a tech trouble with doing that?

Ante Vukorepa
4 days 16 hours ago

Apparently, they believe that people changing in-game items somehow “dirties up” the database and someone then has to clean it up. Or whatever. I don’t know, i’m as baffled as you.

It’s as if they think account data is stored in an excel sheet or something.

YXZ
4 days 15 hours ago

It seems we are getting into programming 101 here, Im sure these problem are not related to the difficulty of all encompassing space combat game. This kind shit would never happen with EA or Blizzard, nor it will ever happen with obscure Korean or Chinese MMO, nor it will ever happen with any online or off line game. If CIG is having trouble to do basic things in the textbook, then they are no where capable to do all the fancy things to run the show. Remember the time estimate of needing additional 2-5 years was assuming they had a team of expert who know how to do shits. Now we get monkey on the type writer, this would laterally take forever.

pup
5 days 9 hours ago

I think the really unfortunate part of all this is the potential damage to crowd funding trust if Star Citizen doesn’t pan out; it’s unfortunately perplexing to me that successes are starting to be exception.

I accept that crowd funding is not buying a game. Development is complicated and things go wrong and over budget, but if they can’t pull something together with 90M (close a triple AAA budget), that’s a little frustrating.

The aggravating part is that crowd funding seems to be becoming a false profit when it really could have been the saving grace of the industry. I suppose I still hope for their success (though I am not a backer or anything of the like), but between this and merely looking at the unmitigated ambition of the project (which seems to lack realism for their team size) it’s not good signs.

Is it too much to wish for someone building a decent playable game for 90M? There is something wrong with the industry when that’s too optimistic, and that worries me.

Ante Vukorepa
4 days 16 hours ago

“I think the really unfortunate part of all this is the potential damage to crowd funding trust if Star Citizen doesn’t pan out.”

Maybe it’s simply time to move away from crowdfunding.
Think of it as part of an evolution. If crowdfunding is starting to look shady to people – maybe it’s because it is getting overly shady. Which means it has to go as a model/paradigm.

Walter
5 days 11 hours ago

Mr. Derek Smart

What the hell happened to you? What happened to the loud, aggressive jerk I used to love to hate back during the Alganon dust-up?

You’re still loud, you’re still aggressive, but I think I’ve turned a corner in that I don’t think it matters if you’re right. I really want to thank you for bringing this to light and compiling the information.

The Escapist article you pointed to is positively crawling with White Knights now. “You’re citing Derek Smart as a source?” they crow, “Article instantly invalidated! You can’t trust a word that guy says, he’s been a troll for as long as there’s been an Internet!”

Facts are still true no matter who says them. And bullshit is still bullshit even if it’s from a guy I really want to like (sorry Chris).

If *the Devil himself* appeared in a puff of brimstone and told me my mechanic was ripping me off, I’d naturally be a little skeptical. But if he then popped the hood and explained in detail where the guy was cutting corners, eventually I’d have to come to terms with the fact that it was more important that I’d need to find a new mechanic than worry about exactly who tipped me off.

RyanC
4 days 3 hours ago

“If *the Devil himself* appeared in a puff of brimstone and told me my mechanic was ripping me off, I’d naturally be a little skeptical. But if he then popped the hood and explained in detail where the guy was cutting corners, eventually I’d have to come to terms with the fact that it was more important that I’d need to find a new mechanic than worry about exactly who tipped me off.”

That is hilarious. 10/10 for Analogy. Would compare again.

Ante Vukorepa
4 days 16 hours ago

“What the hell happened to you?”

He got older and wiser.

“Facts are still true no matter who says them.”

Ad hominem is the most common deflection tactic. And not just in this case.
It’s up there, right next to the straw man argument.

Quasi
5 days 16 hours ago

Looks like some people are finally waking up and deciding that the money and emotional capital spent is no longer worth it. This thread has a large number of posters in it upset. Apparently RSI is constantly changing how certain ships work and that has people who bought these ships understandably pissed. So RSI will let you change your backer package if you aren’t happy with the changes to the ship you bought.

Lo and behold, it seems a new problem has arisen with this “fix”. People are doing it “too often” so to stop “abuse” RSI has decided to start charging youmore money for the privilege.

Let that sink in for a moment……

First off, RSI is constantly changing basic things that should have been set in stone 2 years ago. That should be red flag #1. Second, and most importantly, RSI can change their mind every 5 minutes and we are just supposed to sit there and accept that development will take an extra 3 years with no complaint, but if a backer who trusted them years ago to come through on their promises changes their mind they have to pay a fee to do so! Anyone still sitting on the fence here has probably been impaled by a picket and unable to move at this point :)

jcrg99
4 days 22 hours ago

In the respects of ship stats, I don’t think that they never set anything in stone earlier, and specifically related to that, I think that they were clear in their advertising, so, I don’t see that as a fair statement.
In the respect of asking taxes to transfer/change ownership of a vehicle (spaceship) it has precedent in real life. At least in my country, whatever time that you transfer property you have to pay taxes, be a car or a home. In general who pay it is the interested party, in other words who is “buying”. In case of an exchange, usually involves two parties (two personas or a person and a car store for example), and at this case, a deal is made, that could involve one assuming all the transfer costs or sharing each one an equal part. So, it makes all sense to me, giving to this a second thought.

BUT, morally speaking, the reason that they gave for that is bullshit. Like if they deciding yet if it will be credits or real dollars or whatever that will be used as tax for such transactions. If its just specific to in-game credits, I would be ok with that. But that been real dollars, its bullshit. Wasn’t the purpose of buying ships for real dollars just an excuse for donation and for fun, as stated by their advertising? So now, suddenly, it became an “exploitation” of people willing to exchange their ships and MUST to pay more real dollars for that? This is an absolute abuse, a total disrespect with the consumer from a company that all the time demonstrates that their deal is all about one-street road, where only they are important, people have to have all the patience of the world with them and they don’t give up of anything in favor of the customer.

Example: They require for everyone (not just who voted for expanded scope) having to wait for longer for a new project that they decided to build in the top of the original one (and curious enough, this “new project” jeopardized some features of the original one, like the coop single player, and I am sure of it, a more limited PU mod private server scheme, the first confirmed and the second they gave one or two tips about such direction).
But here’s the thing. Since 11 months ago (or less if you consider that they could start to gave such opportunities already during Beta), people should be able to acquire everything by gameplay without the need to spend more real dollars. So, it’s totally unfair that they expanded, obligated everyone to have more patience but still hamper the experience of everyone in favor of a pay wall living for longer. And don’t tell me about the REC bullshit. Because is that what that thing is. Bullshit.
And the craziness is so huge that Ben Lesnick, 11 months behind of the schedule were people should be acquiring everything by gameplay, comes to public and start to claim that he couldn’t give away credits because that would mean lose millions of dollars in real money! lol
They lost themselves. They simply do not recognize that are in debt and that they don’t have the votes of everyone, but just of a minority, for all this expansion that they made. So, they are totally looking only to the money perspective. It’s an obvious reflex of what their focus actually is.

It’s simply an unfair business practice, disrespectful and embracing for years, the “privilege”/vip approach giving much more benefits for who spend more real dollars over all the rest, which in the end of the day, could have much more impact to spread good words about them, than a few whales spending crazy quantities of money. Guess what. In the medium/long term, this kind of disrespect will come back to bite them, as more these people who spend less, feel hampered, fell like second class citizens and conned. All that assuming very optimistically that magically they will pull this behemoth of. Still, their attitude is always under this direction.
They are the gods. They do whatever they want, regardless how unfair they are and only looking to their benefit and not to the benefit of the customer. That is very amateur view that has not space in the modern market, and in the medium/long term, such thing that is in their veins, like in the blood of the attitude of this company, will come to bite them and destroy them for good. Because that is what happen with a starter company that screw with the majority of its public in favor of a few. They ended destroyed by a bad reputation, brought from the mouth of all those people that became second class citizens and were treated badly, just for the sake of a whales party that brings more benefit to the leaders of the project (personal profit) than for the project itself.

EZMan
4 days 23 hours ago

They’ve had Cross Chassis Upgrades available for a long time, also being able to unmelt a ship was something you could do by sending a ticket to customer support. The only thing changing is they are creating a system that will allow people to perform these tasks more easily themselves. As for downgrading a ship, this has never been possible, the only way you could do this was melt your ship then rebuy a new ship. If you want to downgrade a ship, but keep the perks that you got from purchasing it a long time ago (some of these perks are no longer available for purchase), it’s might cost you a small fee. (final decision hasn’t been made)

Definitions: Cross Chassis Upgrades: Ability to change your ship to something else
Unmelt: Get a ship you thought you didn’t want anymore back.

Ben
4 days 14 hours ago

I don’t think you understand the problem. I believe this was strictly targeted at the Cutlass owners pissed off about the ship. The Cutlass was marketed as a dog fighting capable pirate ship with the ability to haul booty. In reality it sucks and will need a fighter escort as it is simply too slow, very cumbersome, has a huge profile and a bit lacking in firepower for its size IMO. They don’t want that piece of shit so they could melt and lose all their original benefits from backing early or they can CCU. Here is the tricky part, price points. Most will downgrade for a dog fighter they can actually use in arena commander. The other options are more expensive (Freelancer,Hornet are 10 bucks more). This is a blatant cash grab directed at Cutlass Black owners. The fee makes it so its only a few bucks more to upgrade a ship versus downgrading.

Ante Vukorepa
5 days 14 hours ago

This has to be the most absurd “technical” explanation i’ve read all month.
And it would’ve been one even if i weren’t a backend developer.

Also, this gem of a comment:
“Apparently you’ve never spent a day in the internet mines, shoveling database.”

It’s so bizarre i can’t figure out if it was a joke or serious.
Hopefully the former, but somehow, i don’t count on it.

DFrost
5 days 17 hours ago

Glad I never put money into Sham Citizen, shame to, could have been a nice game. The only good thing about this whole mess is I’m enjoying sitting on the bleachers, eating my popcorn (far far far away), and watching Derek Smart dump bags upon bags of RSI’s bullshit behind an industrial fan aimed at right back at them. Keep up the good work Mr. Smart, I’m rooting for ya.

Cicero Vicious
5 days 20 hours ago

All the assholes aside, thanks for checking into what maybe a Mickey Bricks style long-con or, at the other end, a highly ambitious dude that just fucked up again and again and again…I too contributed and want the kick-ass game to be a reality. But I will be beyond pissed if this is a frickin’ hoax. But I think answering the question of which it is can be furthered significantly by just asking what have other companies spent to produce their games of a similar nature? The Star Wars games would be the first place to look. We also need to factor in the MMO aspect of this so then who are the ones to check? CCP obviously. 85mil is serious a shit load of cash…essentially 850 engineers employed for a year…or roughly 275 for 3 years. So yeah, they DEFINITELY should have been able to put something our for release by now. Further, I always expect there to be some feature\mission creep with stuff like this – after all, we are human and therefore, eternally and infinitely flawed – but still, if RSI is\was truly serious about putting out a product, one would think they’d take a 100k from the 85mil to add one PM to the mix so they could manage a roadmap and get a base version released. Then, one you get traction, grow it from there much like was done with EVE. Just my $0.50 (inflation)…

Ben
4 days 22 hours ago

“essentially 850 engineers employed for a year…or roughly 275 for 3 years.”

Man power does not matter when you devote a large portion of it to staging shows and not doing presentations out of a working code base. Most of that code will be thrown away.This is just manpower for development This is not including the overhead of maintaining three different branches of code. Demo, Main, Star Marine. Many WK want to say its only 2 but there are branching for demos (despite what CIG alludes to) or else we would be able to do what they did in game.

Add to that the time for merging branches, regression testing, folding in updates to cry engine because of massive changes to the engine on top of iterations of developement, I would say at least 30% of their programming and engineering/artists have loss over a year in man hours. You can’t get that back and WK don’t realize that and/or do not think it is an issue.

rob
6 days 4 hours ago

Assuming you’re right, what will do you think will happen once CIG ran out of money?
Will they find new investors or even try to sell the whole thing to a big publisher?

me,myself and I
6 days 10 hours ago

Any words on the blog about the movies of CR and his pal Ortwin and the strange ways of collecting money (nearly 500.000 euro) for this adventure? I just asking, because I’m very interested in your findings compared to mine… Ever get a chance to take a closer look on some of the “selling docs” from the banks (vip 3 and vip 4) during the years 2003/2004?
And why the f… seems no one showing at least a bit interested on this matter? Hello?

YXZ
6 days 15 hours ago

I don’t think this start out as a con originally, somehow it gradually become one in the process of harvesting more money. What happened can still be a mystery before the con is imploded, but one thing for sure is the cause of every ill fate of this project is CR himself. What kind people propose himself as an immortal entity in the show? CR’s behavior is on the level of teenager fan fiction writer, it was this kind of arrogance that derailed the SC and all kind shit gone wrong. I think everyone in CIG is treating him like a kid that cosplaying in a comiccon, he is a hill bully with cool toys, Sandra is his mom. This kind of mentality to handle a 90m business is equivalent of 90m set on fire. Form all that promo video, Im increasing getting a message that says: Everyone come to play with cool kid Chris Robert, we are all assuming the role of some star fleet officer in a sand box at a public park.

mad_cat
4 days 22 hours ago

I don’t believe it started off as a con. Perhaps even (though doubtful) that had they only got the $500k, maybe they could have delivered. But as more people put into the pot, the more they had to deliver, and the less they could actually do. What would have been in their best interest was build their original base game, and then build off from there with all the extras.

However, now it is a con job, and they are just trying to find a way to expand their capital after spending all their money for basically nothing. More than than just hurting people who invested, they’ve hurt any other project that would seek out crowdfunding, as people will be less likely to donate through that system. Chris Roberts has done great harm to the indie market.

kev
6 days 15 hours ago

come on this is just because this game will leave you out of work the game is a sim of life in the year 3000 and thats what i have backed and i will wait for it even if it dose not come out till 2020 and i have to spend 1000 on pc tec to play it i am 32 and i dont want just a game i want a vr life in something akin to star wars

rafael
5 days 19 hours ago

Look for a game called Infinity Quest for Earth.

Ben
6 days 20 hours ago

Its been going on the whole time but the last few status updates its really blatant. A large amount of development resource was being diverted from development to support staging the demos for conventions. Multiple personnel from multiple studios and the last report said they were preparing to support yet another demo at citizencon. I made a post saying they need to chill with conferences and staging demos and only show things that are doable in the current release.

A mod moved it and modified it to a concern and made it a poll. 18% agreed it was a concern the rest said the demos were paid for by subscribers not backers. My point was even if that is true:
A: Subscriptions don’t cover the cost for the developer time
B: Nothing can get back the time spent on staging code that will essentially be thrown away

Somehow they feel the demo code is rolled into the main build and usable. It isn’t. They also think having three different builds (staging, main, Star Marine) doesn’t come with a significant amount of overhead. I don’t believe for a second they used the main build for the demo despite some saying they didn’t branch. If that were true we would have seen all that weeks ago.

They say the demos are need to continue fundraising. Stretch goals ended damn near 30 million dollars earlier. Why does he need to continue raising funds versus focusing on finishing?

Gary
6 days 7 hours ago

“Stretch goals ended damn near 30 million dollars earlier.”

This to me is the heart and soul of the issue. They’re holding this “game” hostage. Backers feel if they don’t keep ponying it up, the project will dissolve. Some don’t care, but many do. Is their money worth less than the money of those people who keep chanting that they can afford to lose it?

The stretch goal dollar amounts were never calculated accurately. They don’t have enough money to finish. They need more. When does it end?

Ante Vukorepa
5 days 20 hours ago

Well put. That truly is the core of the issue.

And it’s not just about backers ponying up – everything seems to be aligned and intoned that way. Don’t say bad things about CIG and SC, they’ll lose backers and we won’t get the game! Don’t sue CIG and SC, they’ll have to pay up for legal services and we won’t get the game! Don’t tell people not to buy concept art for non-existant assets, there won’t be any money for the assets!

And on and on and on.

I haven’t even thought of looking it that way until you’ve mentioned it.
Spot on!

mad_cat
7 days 4 hours ago

Thank you for this. I wanted to invest when it first came out, but so glad I was broke. There’s a lesson in all of this… more money isn’t always the answer. And, don’t be impressed with a flashy video.

Andreas
7 days 4 hours ago

Hi Derek,

in the RSI letter its being argued that you didn’t install the game. I couldnt find a reply from you on that topic. Is it true?

Thank you,
Andreas

Rayvyn
7 days 23 hours ago

I got a nice laugh out of the Iraqi guy comparison, I remember seeing that live back during the first Gulf War and laughing my ass off. I read some of your comments about “Star Citizen” and many of them seem right. There is feature creep but you expect that a lot these days. I also read your comments about “Elite: Dangerous” and there was feature creep there to but they did deliver. I’ve played Elite:Dangerous and it is a wonderful game with lots of stuff to do. Of course all games get boring if you play them long enough but I think “Elite: Dangerous” will be around a while especially with the new features they’re adding in a month or so. Here is where I take issue with you. You criticized a game you don’t think will deliver, that’s fine. But in doing that you tried to promote your own game and that is just not right. What makes it worse is that the game you promoted while putting down a game that hasn’t been released yet, and that game you promoted turned out to be a huge pile of stinking crap. That game you promoted has so many bugs in it and the vase majority of people who played and reviewed this game have also come to the same conclusion. That game you promoted is a huge stinking pile of crap. I just wish you could have stayed on topic and not tried to promote your own game in comments about another company.

DerekD
8 days 1 hour ago

Having been an indie dev for almost 15 years, I could make a decent wager that an indie game of this scope with Roberts at the helm probably wouldn’t see the light of day. $90M is just too much to keep a focused, consistent vision on a game design with 500+ employees and meet the sort of deadlines required for a project of this scope.

Zambooka
8 days 1 hour ago

for anyone who hasn’t seen it here is a detailed, live list of pledge money coming in. note this doesn’t include other funding they may have received.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207

Gary
6 days 2 hours ago

Wow – if you pay attention to the column that lists how much money they made on a specific day, you see the large numbers directly correspond to events – Gamescom, demos, or most often, ship sales.

They’ve created a system that allows them to print money on demand.

I’m feeling some cognitive dissonance here – I’m either sad that they’re taking advantage of people, disgusted that people are falling for it (and HARD), or angry with myself for not thinking of it first.

Thorne
8 days 3 hours ago

Mr. Smart,

First and foremost, please excuse any typos as I am writing this from my iPad connected via RDP.

As you had told me in your previous blog, my rather brief analysis of the situation barely scratched the surface of the troublesome actions taken by Cloud Imperium Games. I think at this point, reading the rather unprofessional legal response from Cloud Imperium Games’ counsel, the actions they have taken including the firing of employees as well as effectively shutting down every thread on their forum regarding their financials, and the rather suspicious development of this “Gemini 42” production company under Sandy Gardner with the same principle address of Cloud Imperium Games Santa Monica it is pretty simple to say that the actions speak even louder than the evidence against them.

As I am currently at my company’s East Coast headquarters I took a trip to D Street NW here in Washington and stopped by the SEC to see if I could obtain some information regarding Cloud Imperium Games and they were unable to find any filings with the SEC during the allotted time that I had for visiting the SEC.

The reason I bring this up is that, in a now deleted thread, I made the point to say I took a trip to the SEC to see if I could garner some information on CIG because we, as backers of the company, have a right to know because while we may not be investors in the traditional sense of the practice in that we didn’t pay for a piece of the company, we still payed in a way that is far different than say pre-ordering a game.

I was challenged in this thread by someone who said “if you pre-order Uncharted 4 that doesn’t give you the right to see Naughty Dogs financials” but not only is a pre-order a totally different type of transaction but I can get a ho,d of Naughty Dogs financials and if I am not mistaken, they are published on Naughty Dogs corporate site.

This is similar to how I own a Tesla Model S P85D but I don’t invest in Tesla, I do however read their investor information which includes filings for earnings (ir.teslamotors.com for the record) so this is not only an issue of CIG hiding something but an issue of most people not grasping the gravity and implications of the situation.

Cloud Imperium Games’ actions speak far more than any statement they could have made. You were willing to pay with your own money for the forensic accounting yet this was rebutted in such a way to make it seem like no backer has the right to know the financial status of CIG.

I have a feeling CIG is burning through cash flow at an unprecedented rate and the dramatic downsizing now occurring is a result of that. Viewing Glassdoor reviews of the company suggest it is not a healthy environment nor does the letter regarding the one person who quit.

I have a few thousand in the game and while I cam afford to lose the money, others cannot and this is why I now fully support the endeavour to determine what exactly is happening at CIG.

As I stated before, I am in the Aerospace, Defense, and High-Tech industries and that’s really all I can draw on when trying to piece together CIG. We make breakthroughs all the time and deliver things that others say could not be done but the applications are different. There’s a saying I like to use, “we promise the moon but aim for the stars” but CIG is promising the stars and there is no way they can deliver on their promises given their financials and technological limitations. Not to mention the corporate environment of CIG.

CIG pretty much promised what I can say is likely everyone’s dream science fiction multiplayer game but poor management, execution, and likely extreme misuse of the funds will likely result in CIG’s collapse.

What also sort of gets at me is that their so called counsel who is one of the most unprofessional I have ever seen, decided to bring up the fact you filed for Chapter 11 protection. There are a number of reasons an entity might do this and it is completely irrelevant to what is trying to be achieved here.

I sincerely hope that you are able to get to the bottom of this Mr. Smart. I am really good with numbers (minus statistics; I can do extremely complex math but statistics gets me every time) a d the numbers din’t add up and the actions of CIG are actions an entity would take to try and hide something.

The collapse of CIG, the largest and most ever crowdfunded project won’t just have repercussions on the video game industry but it will likely kill any and all confidence in crowdfunding which has been a source of many great products over the past few years.

Klaus Reims
4 days 2 hours ago

It’s funny how suddenly all these negative review pop up. It is also funny how the names in some of the reviews rhyme with “Derek Smart”.

Exitt
8 days 10 hours ago

Have you had a chance to see this? A few comments which I agree with is CIG is just using “Streamline” as a double word for layoffs. http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/25/9399345/star-citizen-is-reorganizing-its-teams-not-conducting-layoffs

Rednecksith
8 days 12 hours ago

Feature creep is what will kill SC. They started out with a fairly modest (compared to what it’s grown into) vision of what was basically an online version of Privateer, or an MMO version of Freelancer’s multi-player, pick whichever example works best for you. Then they started adding stuff on. Atmospheric flight, a full FPS component, campaign / story missions, and so on. They got ahead of themselves and bit off way more than they can chew, and I agree that they’re in full-on crisis mode.

A shame. It looked promising at first, but as the years went by and they kept selling non-existent ships for exorbitant amounts of money, my fraud sense started tingling. The fact that Roberts’ reaction to the rather room temperature response of the gaming media to the very underwhelming and grossly delayed Arena Commander module was to throw a temper tantrum and threaten to withdraw all media access to the project turned the warning buzzer into a klaxon.

Sad thing is, even IF our senses are wrong and the project releases as advertised, it’s going to be too late. Elite Dangerous has met with success, and is expanding into atmospheric flight and planetary exploration very soon. No Man’s Sky (the one I’m excited about) will be released with full exploration of millions (even billions) of randomly-generated planets and interstellar phenomena. Even some of the smaller projects like Rogue Galaxy and Starpoint Gemini 3 (I’m a fan of that series) look quite promising as well.

By the time their monstrosity is shoved out the door (if ever), it’ll be old news. Plus, have you SEEN the Wing Commander movie? Roberts made Uwe Boll’s horrid video game adaptations look halfway decent with that cinematic travesty. Sorry, don’t want that guy anywhere near my games.

Ah well. At least the meltdown is / will be fun to watch. StarFanBoys are fun and easy to rile up.

jcrg99
4 days 21 hours ago

“Atmospheric flight”

Just fixing this. This is not part of their promises, feature list.

“campaign / story missions”

Fixing this too:

This was in fact the game that would be produced if they achieved 2 million dollars in crowdfunding from different sources (Kickstarter and their own blog). While it was described in the advertising, it was described that they would make only the Squadron 42 part, if only 2 was gathered. The game that you mentioned, the so called PU, was an addition if they passed the 2 million dollars mark. Which happened pretty fast.

And the premise of raising more funds, as advertised by the company, is that you would get everything in two years, Squadron 42 + PU, and hitting the higher stretch goals would guarantee that.

“By the time their monstrosity is shoved out the door (if ever), it’ll be old news.”

You are definitely right here. And you would be surprised WHO would agree with you here. Just look to this statement:

https://www.themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts

“Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in – another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale.”

The question is. Knowing this reality of the market, specially how the market/people behave and stating such word of wisdom when was convenient to tell people that with less money he was capable to deliver into his promises, including time, basically, why Roberts throw away such reality? Is he not worried anymore with anything but money gathered from a few whales, regardless the sentiment of all the rest? What made him believe that wont get stale now? Because he releases alphas and demos? This is bullshit. Who pays attention to their numbers, can see that just a minority of the backers have actually been following their development, participating in their forums and playing the game. An absolute majority don’t make anything like that and seem only waiting, quiet. So how possibly it won’t get stale for them, the majority of his public? Fuck the majority of his public? That is the whole thing that does not makes sense, with who have that knowledge and still, ignore, pursuit more money, more cash grabbing and more ridiculous features, demanding a lot of rework. That only fits with someone looking or interested in money. Then, their attitude starts to make sense.

Mark
8 days 12 hours ago

Mr Smart, I have to say I’m impressed with your dedication and honesty to this cause. I appreciate your blunt personality on the matter as well.

MEITTI
8 days 19 hours ago

This whole thing reminds me of a notorious mobile gaming company from the early 2000’s in my country. Figured that you could use an entertaining watch, they made a documentary about it, and how their speed blindness resulted in them wasting 20 million dollars for parties and marketing, without them being able to produce a single competent mobile game:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427783/

Not encouraging you to engage in any form of piracy, just mentioning that certain immensely popular video website has all of it uploaded.

Ante Vukorepa
6 days 19 hours ago

Nice connection, but that pattern is hardly unique to Riot or, potentially, CIG.
It’s something of a norm, where notorious bubble-bursting failures are concerned.

Most recently, i’m reminded of MtGox and Karpeles.

Breakleft
9 days 56 minutes ago

I’m a little concerned about the Jennison letter, and specifically that you left his name involved. Isn’t making that sort of thing public with a name attached a potential industry death sentence for that guy? I imagine it’s hard to hire a guy who has been known to talk about the failings of your company when he leaves. Easier to just not hire him and dodge the liability. Do you have a reason why you left his name attached?

Otherwise it seems we are in for an interesting next few weeks.

Fares
9 days 4 hours ago

Hello Derek,

Could you please upload the Attachments of Freyermuth’s letter?

Thanks

Kristoffer
9 days 6 hours ago

Hello again Derek,
Some suggestions for your blog
1 – Do a FAQ. Maybe about you(which would have some stuff from the Urban Legend blog entry, but mostly about this entire RSI/CIG thing. It’s getting a bit long and alot of posts to go through to find stuff. Especially for people just popping in.
2 – Seperate fact, rumor and conjecture/assumptions. Right now you are mixing them heavily which isn’t doing anyone any good. Except if you want to confuse people. Fact would obviously be “they replied to my legal letter and here is the Dropbox link”. Fact is NOT that Sandi is Chris’ wife because that’s not supported by facts made available to us. You may have those facts, or you may be lying, but stop writing it as an accepted fact for everyone else. The number of times you’ve stated it without stating or revealing facts reminds me of Baghdad Bob and the old practice of “repeat a lie enough times and people will believe it”.
Rumor would be “Pugh and Alyssa got fired because of this leak”. Right now it’s not even a fact they got fired, Pugh didn’t write that on his Twitter and CIG hasn’t commented. But there’s alot pointing to it. But it’s definitely rumor why they got fired. As I understand it laws in LA prohibit giving details on it from CIG’s side and as you say, the people effected don’t want to burn any bridges so they’ll probably never say so all we’re left with are rumors. Remember how quietly Will Lewis left when Disco came on, still not official why and no comment from him either. (read Toasts awesome reply on the matter here – https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5650064/#Comment_5650064
And conjecture/assumption would be “Santa Monica studio is in full crisis mode as a result”. Goes without saying, without a web camera, keylogger or direct e-mail access that can only be an assumption. So is “Ben Lesnick cannot be trusted” which may be seen as slander, especially when said about a community manager.

And some thoughts on “cause and effect”.
Step 1) You say there’s something fishy, dodgy and even illegal going on at CIG.
Step 2) You recieve and post a leaked e-mail from a former employee to back it up, which it really didn’t. As you point out it wasn’t backed up or endorsed as an actual, proper mail, and the content of the mail was “someone with proper management skills should run this project, not Chris!”, it was not evidence or even hinting of illegal wrongdoings.
Step 3) People are rumored to have be fired because of the leak.
Step 4) You use that as evidence of step 1) which isn’t logical at all. Any company in the world would investigate and fire an employee who would leak information to someone they are in a legal battle with. Even if it’s a fact that they got fired over it, it doesn’t prove that there was something “fishy, dodgy and even illegal” going on before step 2. Step 3 was a result of step 2, not 1.

Also “Alyssa Delhotal and James Pugh were reportedly fired under suspicion of leaking information to me. Since I don’t know ANY of the above people, it’s patently false.” – just because you don’t know them doesn’t mean they haven’t been feeding you information, you said it yourself, you’ve gotten some information from anonymous “burner” e-mail accounts. (not that I’m defending CIG on this, Pugh is awesome and it sucks hard, but I just want to get facts straight and assumptions cleared up!)

Everyone would be so better off if you seperated fact, rumor and conjecture. I don’t buy “trust me, I got this” more than I believe “Star Citizen will release in 2016”.

P.F
7 days 11 hours ago

Any response for this one? Kristoffer makes some good points.

Zambooka
8 days 1 hour ago

Very much agree, fact, rumors and assumptions are very mixed in these blog posts

Kxmode
9 days 12 hours ago

Saw that CitizenCon “will be held at the Runway Visitor Park at the Manchester Airport, featuring a Concorde jet as a backdrop!” That can’t be cheap…

I find the name of the Park interesting. “Runway”… almost sounds like Runaway. I wonder if Chris, Sandi and Ortwin plan on hoping on top that Concorde jet and fly off toward some unknown island with the remaining millions of backer money.

MKDAWUSS
9 days 15 hours ago

(I’ll have to see if this works, since it wouldn’t let me connect/login via any of the above features [Facebook, WordPress…)

Is this still about Backers vs. RSI or is this now morphed (devolved?) into Derek Smart vs. Chris Roberts? To me, it seems like the more things develop, the more personal it gets (and I’m not so much talking blog/media responses, but also the legal ones). Instead of addressing concerns about the situation, it’s become more about abusing the plaintiff – congratulations on those who shifted the frame on the conversation and kept it there. Or something.

In the RSI letter, are the mentioned Exhibits 1, 2, 3, and 4 available? In the interest of proving or disproving claims made by RSI.

I’d really be interested in seeing the blog entry where everything gets laid out in an encyclopedic manner (unless, of course, it’s not recommended for legal reasons), as it sounds like there’s still a collection of information that has yet to be unveiled.

Back to the topic of Star Citizen, I’ve had concerns about the Persistent Universe far more than Squadron 42 (as the latter is basically a current-gen Wing Commander, and we’ve seen how those have turned out). The PU is a far more ambitious project. If Squadron 42 turns out great, I can settle for that in the event the PU becomes a flop that fails to meet expectations and fantasies.

At least right now they have things to show for their efforts. I also understand that things do take time to develop. With everything (except for what they can’t show us just yet!) being out in the open, things like that can get lost on the masses.

If this ends up being one elaborate scheme, so be it, but all I can do is act on what I know at the moment.

As to where I fall on this entire argument, I’m a neutral. There are things in both camps that I agree with and disagree with.

Palacios
9 days 18 hours ago

Another great article! Thank you DS for staying the course. You’re the only person who can hold CR accountable. Please don’t let the white knights deter you.

Tribert
9 days 19 hours ago

Dear Mr. Smart,

I appreciate that you use your time to investigate something that could very well affect every gamer in the future. I believe that critical thinking, let alone acting upon it, is something many people nowadays are not willing to do, because it can be pretty demanding to face reality and they rather savour an illusion until it is too late.
Therefore I have the utmost respect for you taking this path for the good of this project, despite the harsh reactions towards you, because if we ever want to see a game like this being made in this crowdfunded form, the things you want to hold them accountable for are perfectly reasonable.

I will follow your blog and hope that you will be able to shed some light on what really goes on with Star Citizen. Anyone who is willing to use their brain will understand that they are NOT communicating openly about the project, infact, with their blatant propaganda they are doing exactly the opposite of what they promised to the backers and that is what should make anyone really suspicious. But as said, to understand this, one would have to leave the comfort of the illusion that their porpaganda reinforces.

Good luck Mr. Smart!

jcrg99
9 days 21 hours ago

https://www.sba.gov/content/advertising-and-marketing-law

Marketing and advertising your products or services effectively is key to the success of your business. However, ALL businesses have a LEGAL responsibility to ensure that any advertising claims are truthful, not DECEPTIVE and that your marketing activities don’t break the law.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-marketing-internet-rules-road

“The Internet is connecting advertisers and marketers to customers from Boston to Bali with text, interactive graphics, video and audio. If you’re thinking about advertising on the Internet, remember that many of the same rules that apply to other forms of advertising apply to electronic marketing. These rules and guidelines protect businesses and consumers – and help maintain the credibility of the Internet as an advertising medium. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has prepared this guide to give you an overview of some of the laws it enforces.”

“The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent DECEPTIVE and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice IS DECEPTIVE IF IT IS LIKELY TO: mislead consumers and affect consumers’ behavior or decisions about the product or service.”

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

“The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. ”

So… considering the above, first the statements of the entity who oversees the matter in United States and then the statement of the CIG Advertising above, which was wrote in perfect english (because wasn’t me who wrote in my advertising, but Roberts on his own) could someone clarify to me, since now the “time will tell” period passed, in what way, the statement above from the CIG advertising is not a violation of the FTC Act? My question is because, despite it has been presented on CIG discussion for a while now (including with other similar discrepant instances of the SC advertising material with the reality, which includes their text, interviews, videos, etc.), Star Citizen fans claim that “there is nothing”, “there is no evidence that CIG broke any law”, and apparently, even CIG denies that they broke any law.

So, if that statement is not a violation of the FTC Act (if you want to believe on that), what exactly would be?

caresenoughtopost
9 days 22 hours ago

I post due to the fact of the seeing all the statements that are putting SC against ED, as far as I know (it’s my imo it will not change) one really can not compare the two games one is a pure spaceship sandbox game the other is trying to break new grounds and add things into a sandbox spacesim that has not existed in the past that I am aware of.

I backed SC fully aware that it’s release date was set for 2016, I would rather have a game released that is fully completed with very little bugs then a game that follows the blizzard models, that is release a unfinished product full of bugs.

jcrg99
9 days 13 hours ago

“I backed SC fully aware that it’s release date was set for [2018], I would rather have a game released that is fully completed with very little bugs then a game that follows the blizzard models, that is release a unfinished product full of bugs.”

See you in 2016 with the sentence updated above, if they really go much further in that year. That will be an accomplishment.

Dan
9 days 15 hours ago

“the other is trying to break new grounds and add things into a sandbox spacesim that has not existed in the past”

Probably won’t in the future at this rate, either (badoom tish!) 😛

Seriously though, trying to be all games for everyone, even with $90M (in fact, I’d say *especially* with $90M, reasons to follow) is not a way to successfully make a releasable product. Why? Because in 100% of video games there are many corners cut and liberties taken with cameras, physics, animation, etc, because they can “cheat” our perceptions and ensure that a product can be released within a budget of time AND money. CryEngine takes plenty of these liberties in the service of making the graphics as pretty as they are, which is why CIG has had such a devil of a time getting anything released that lies outside of the engines capabilities… they’ve been busy trying to make the engine do things it was never designed to do within the constraints of (a) the technology itself in the sense of it being an FPS engine that was designed to be licensed to other game developers and (b) the hardware on the market… at this point, I suspect there is a very high percentage of backers looking at PCs capable of running the game shown during the Kickstarter campaign wondering whether they’ll even be able to run SC, because it’s looking increasingly as though CIG has basically thrown (b) out the window.

Why “even with $90M”? Because that has given CR and CIG a false sense of security… the development budgets of COD, GTA and Destiny are renowned in the games industry, and they all attempt to focus on a few key gameplay features and deliver them to a very high level of polish. Their dev budgets (i.e. the funds set aside for programmers, artists, production staff, assets, mocap, running costs, overtime meals, etc) are significantly higher than that of CIG. In that sense, when some of us industry professionals say that the “burn rate” of CIG suggests they aren’t going to reach the finish line… we mean it. Even *if* CIG do somehow (miraculously!!) manage to get all the systems they have promised to a “feature complete” state, traditionally called the “Alpha” phase (they are NOWHERE near this their current promised feature set), they definitely do not look like they will have enough left in the kitty for polish without liquidating much of their fixed assets (i.e. sell of their non-essential studios, let go of now redundant staff), at which point I’d say they’ve underestimated how much redundancy pay they would likely need to shell out for their permanent staff… But once they hit Alpha, they still have stabilise the build across a wide range of use cases (“Beta”) and polish the product (“Release” or “Ship”).

The amount of cash CR and CIG has been throwing around with their conventions, lavish offices, mocap and audio studios, no doubt extremely expensive development PCs, software licenses, well paid staff… the numbers simply don’t add up for anyone capable of thinking critically and with an ounce of experience in the games industry. Coupled with stories even I have been hearing (and I’m not even what I would consider particularly well connected in the industry), this is an extremely troubled project, and no amount of vitriol from CR, CIG and their totally oblivious and irrational fanboys, is preventing what appears to be a growing wave of concern for this project and what the implications of its failure might be.

Wow, sorry about the length of that post… meant to just do the joke and leave it at that :-)

Dan
9 days 10 hours ago

OK, so when I posted this I hadn’t seen the latest news about CIG… ouch! Not sure I should have joked about that now.

So I popped over to the SC sub-reddit to see if there was any more news and saw a thread discussing it. Amazingly, there I’m reading things like…
“Alyssa? She did marketing stuff, right? She was also very abrasive. Some people like her attitude, some people hated it.”
“He (James) was a good community organizer but really? I’d by lying if I said I missed him”
“Anyone with any life experience knows that companies go through ups and downs all the time, and people are fired or quit on their own volition. THIS IS NORMAL.”
“Why is this putrid cesspool of a talking point still being displayed on the sub? Can we just… not?”
“DS just screwed the guy who wrote that letter. That is the thing I am getting out of this.”

Let’s (inhumanly) forget for one second that these are people who had jobs, lives and adult responsibilities (and possibly familial obligations) who have been fired / felt obligated to resign… let’s forget that some of the community may have not particularly liked or disliked them… that one of them was elbows deep in organizing a major publicity event… that this is all happening on the same day as two other people (allegedly) resigning on the spot and news that a major subsidiary studio responsible for the PU portion of the title may be downsizing significantly, if not closing shop altogether. The amount of cognitive dissonance required to voice these opinions on a public forum whilst suppressing these snippets is staggering!

Toby
10 days 1 hour ago

Hi, I think there needs to be a bit of air which needs to be cleared.

To deal with your backer rewards argument, I know you know full most of the backer rewards are heavily dependent on a complete game. Nor can you spend extra money to ship things separately. Only when the game is complete can a modding manual be written which will contain accurate information for users to develop mods for. A universe map can’t made without all the assets completed to define the locations of the universe. After all you don’t want an inaccurate universe map. The biggest issue here is the type of rewards they offered unfortunately is heavily dependent on the completion of the game it self. The rare exceptions being ship models – which can be made early. But you being a business man would be quite aware that you would want to ship all weighted items in one box, instead of many small ones to save money.

The next issue is your own historical project of BC 3000 A.D – which it self took 10 years of development, had project overruns and was finally released was quoted by gamespot as, “It will go down in legend as the most bug-ridden, unstable, unplayable pieces of software ever released. ” If you wishing to be unbiased of the situation what would you have written about BC 3000 A.D considering you feel SC Was a long con? An Epic Con Job worthy of a movie deal starring the guys from Oceans 11 or the Italian Job? Did you also not give excuses at the time to investors of why the project was taking so long? Did you expect Take Two to wait two decades for release? I would also like to point out at that time you were quoted to saying, “done except for the manual”. SC might have been delayed from initial projections but it has not reached the levels you have achieved at that time.

Personally I think your still sore about it, I know you wanted BC 3000 A.D to be great game. It was clearly seen your passion went into it, trying to make it as diverse and feature rich as possible, Unfortunately it is not an uncommon mistake to constantly keep adding and reworking mechanics, the same happened to 3D Realms with Duke Nukem. I know you are going to blow it off – but I think you subconsciously don’t want some one else to succeed where you have failed. You know first hand how difficult it it so to make such a project. You have used the excuse numerous times in the steam forums in Line of Defense- paraphrasing here, “Game development takes time, Game will be in Early Access with no foreseeable release date, Early Access games should not offer Refunds” etc. Yet you don’t want to extend that curtsey of your own reasoning of Line of Defense to SC.

Deep down inside I believe you want to see such a project come to light, but only if you are the one making it. Chris is not some new kid off the block, he made his share of mistakes too – Freelancer before it was given to Microsoft was a hot mess. Microsoft did all it could to fix it up before release and some how it resulted with great reception and cult following. Wing Commander of course being the game which defined his career. Personally I think you also wished you had that sort of notoriety he achieved and still has in his golden years.

Anyway long story short I wrote this not to put you down, but to show you only that you made the same mistakes. An instead of attacking the project you should instead offer advice from your own turbulent history so other designers don’t repeat the same mistakes.

Von
3 days 16 hours ago

IMHO, BC3000 failed because of feature creep. Derek kept cramming more and more stuff in until the manual was 164 pages long and most people just said “Screw this, I’m gonna go back to playing X-Wing.” And BC3000 was his baby.

I suspect that it is for this very reason that Mr.Smart has had his senses sharply attuned to the scent of feature creep ever since then. So when SC started down the dark path of sprouting new features faster than warts on a toad it was only natural that he’d be one of the first people to put together exactly where it would lead to: Because he’s been there himself.

Metaphorically, when William Burroughs tells you to stay away from junk, take his word on it.

Now there are ways to bloat a game into a beautiful monster that works without collapsing under the weight of feature creep. Look no further than “Crusader Kings 2” for a model of how to do it right: Start with a basic game at a reasonable price. Deliver said base as advertised. Once base game has sold enough copies then write an expansion pack for it. Those who want it will buy it. Price expansion packs reasonable to the amount of content they contain (read: Spending $1.99 for some better graphics is reasonable. Spending $1000 for space ship pixels should be grounds for children to file for divorce from their parents.) Each expansion pack makes the game a little larger, a little more complicated, a little deeper… but none of them are mandatory, and none of them slowed the development & release of the basic game in any way. You’ll note that “The Sims” franchise does this too and, despite EA being evil incarnate, we can easily see that this system works.

Again, IMHO, I think – as many, if not most people here, do – that if RSI stuck to “vision 1.0” then none of this would be happening. It was a basic game, realistic in scope and something you could play for an hour without having to get a 2nd mortgage just to stay competitive in PvP. Likewise, I think if BC3000 had just toned down the ambition, added a tutorial and spent more time on being user friendly than being “epic” then it, too, would have sold a lot better.

You look around today and, as much as it may disgust our sensibilities, the fastest growing industry is casual gaming (aka Smartphone games). These are games that a third grader could play. Heck, some of them look like they were designed by 3rd graders. Why is this doing so well? Because the demographic of the “average gamer” has gotten older. Much older. Your main sales group isn’t 14-16 year old guys living at home with nothing but free time and obsession. The new gamer image is 30-40 years old, probably married w/kids, and certainly doesn’t have 6+ hours a night to devote to gaming. He (or she) needs their games to be easier, shallower, and faster. They just don’t have the time or energy for “epic” anymore. As least without a “save” feature.

One last key difference: Mr.Smart has clearly learned from his past mistakes. Mr.Roberts… not so much.

jcrg99
9 days 13 hours ago

“you should instead offer advice from your own turbulent history so other designers don’t repeat the same mistakes.”

That was exactly what he did in his first blog.

Stavros papadopolous Jr.
10 days 9 hours ago

Interesting how entirely reasonable, albeit critical, comments get censored on here. And seeing as I’m posting from a different device and an entirely different location than usually, don’t give me any nonsense about falling into automatic IP blockers or anything.

Well, I’ll leave you and your own little circle of cult followers like kxmode and jcrg99 to yourselves…

Denan
10 days 9 hours ago

Well.. i’ve been watching this from the sidelines for a while now and thought i’d chip in.

Background: I am a backer (starter ship) from the end of the kickstarter campaign but only browse the CIG forums once in a while and start the client to see whats changed or updated. I’m not active within the community but i keep track of all things mmo/online space.

I don’t have a problem with demanding accountability, i do have a problem with the way it has been demanded and how opinions are voiced. Seeing as you have quite the experience in online discourse i would have expected you to handle things differently. Now this is from my own experience, during my previous work as projectmanager/accountmanager for the largest consumer fiber companie in the Netherlands i used to spend my evenings handling webcare and getting my feet dirty in online tech forums. In about 7 years i’ve managed to rack up about 30k+ posts on the largest tech forum in the netherlands and after a rocky start i managed to get a grip on the responses (i was dragged through the mud daily) and my own behaviour (younger.. and easy to piss off)

Here goes:
1) If you have a point -> make it. Don’t insinuate stuff or give readers enough leeway to read between your lines. You seem to be a smart guy so you know the impact your words, or sentence construction, will have on a reader.
2) Don’t write walls of text to prove your point. We have a saying at work “a smart analyst can translate a complex problem into an easy to understand 4 sentence explanation. A bad analyst needs 2 pages to explain the same thing”
3) Stick to the facts. If you have proof -> show it.
4) If you have no proof, or if you’re not allowed to show it -> don’t mention it. Nothing screams ‘fraud’ more then people saying “i have proof.. but i can’t”. If you can’t .. there is no proof.
5) Avoid ‘circle proof’ -> This happens in my current job a lot. With ton’s of information pointing to itself, or to outside sources who – after careful analysis – turn out to also point to the original inside source, it’s easy fool yourself. Proof needs to be validated, if you can’t -> There is no proof
6) Don’t cherry pick -> I’ve seen responses (from you and towards you) that focus on one question or sentence while the original post featured 10. By choosing to respond to just a small part of the question you automatically invalidate your own stance on the other questions raised.
7) Be careful who you are associated with. I’ve seen you replying more positively to people who seem to pick your side. But that bias is dangerous in online discourse. Witty responses to people who seem to miss some crucial mental capacity for logic and understanding do not strengthen your cause. Just check this thread for the walls of text/rambling that seem to make sense at first sight, but after careful analysis turn out to be nonsense. You probably know who i’m talking about :)
8) Be brutally honest, also about yourself -> I’ve read you saying ‘this isn’t personal’.. but it is. Just checking your twitter account and previous actions betray a deep emotional (often negative) connection to this debate. It is personal for you, as it is for the other people involved.
9) Avoid “the funnies”. You’re making a serious statement here that has impact on yourself, cig and the community at large. Your behaviour and statements have a negative impact on my view of you.
10) Hold yourself to a higher standard -> If you want to be ‘the voice of reason’-> act like it.

All in all i wonder where you get the time to write/read and track all this stuff. Internet drama can be quite entertaining, but as soon as both parties have crossed the ‘im right.. and i will only send, not listen!!!!’ threshold it gets tedious quite fast. This discussion has overstepped those bounds about a month ago.. and i thought you would have recognized that.

(add: posted as a reply the first time.. sorry for that)

jcrg99
10 days 2 hours ago

“Witty responses to people who seem to miss some crucial mental capacity for logic and understanding do not strengthen your cause. Just check this thread for the walls of text/rambling that seem to make sense at first sight, but after careful analysis turn out to be nonsense. You probably know who i’m talking about :)

Yes. I get used already with this kind of lame attacks. So, please, explain what exactly does not make sense, or what is the “crucial mental capacity for logic and understanding” that misses in my replies, since I am man enough (which apparently you aren’t) to when accusing someone, accusing it based on facts, reason, logic, instead cowardly and sensationalism.

You should learn to do not have prejudice behavior, for whatever bullshit/lies that you heard about from SC fanboys or even coming (without any proof shown) from the mouth of people involved in a con. As all people should. If they don’t learn that, they don’t deserve to be clarified.

jcrg99
10 days 3 hours ago

No insult intended, but I see that despite this: “during my previous work as projectmanager/accountmanager for the largest consumer fiber companie in the Netherlands”
you have issues of reading comprehension of laws.
If you did not have such issues, you wouldn’t need to write this wall of text talking about proof when they were shown, at least the most important that lead CIG to make them accountable (so through accountability more could be discovered).
It was interesting to see too, you asking for Derek do not make insinuations, but then, making lame and baseless insinuations yourself. One of these cases of not following your own advice.

Denan
9 days 11 hours ago

@siding with people:
The point of that sentence was to warn about bias in responses to people who seem to be on your side, but during closer inspection seem to have some serious issues. Seemingly siding with these people detracts from the core argument and wrecks the foundation of the discussion. People just won’t take derek seriously if this happens.

@law comprehension:
I assure you that i have no problems understanding the law.. and there’s always legal if i’m stuck somewhere. But the point was made in a discussion on online discourse, not a discussion on law related matters.
If in an online discussion you state “i know something but i can’t talk about it’ its information not to be used in the argument. Don’t even state the fact that you know something until you can post it and have proof. It will detract from your argument.

@you
I’ve read your posts on this board, on reddit and other sites that follow this discussion. The point you may have gets lost in fanatic discussions that hold no merit whatsoever. On a deep personal level i distrust people who are overzealously, without any display of doubt or the capacity to change their stance, attack or defend a cause. You, and several of the pro-SC commenters, fall into that category.

jcrg99
8 days 20 hours ago

“You, and several of the pro-SC commenters, fall into that category.”

No. I don’t fall in that category. I am sorry if I am not convinced to change my mind easily as you would like, by whatever salesman argument or things like “hey, this is jcrg99, he is a sexual harasser of members of CIG Staff”, or “what you are talking about, did not you see the official answer of Ben Lesnick saying that its all a conspiracy and nobody is concerned?”, just because there are more than one replying to me the same bullshit.

“On a deep personal level i distrust people who are overzealously, without any display of doubt or the capacity to change their stance, attack or defend a cause. You, and several of the pro-SC commenters, fall into that category.”

Your analysis was very superficial and weak to you take conclusions. I took around 4 months to raise my suspicions about the project and 3 years more to have my current conclusions about the project and its leaders. I went deep in an investigation. Very very deep. I gave to CIG the benefit the doubt and tested the waters. Just to see their reaction that corroborated my suspicions. Basically everything that I have been saying along these 3 years, are all happening (faster than I actually expected myself).

You are just a bad judge, as most of people are. I am not.

Denan
6 days 10 hours ago

I’m not inclined to believe that i can convince you.. not when others, with more patience than me, have tried to reason with you and failed.

Fact1: I based my opinion of you on your posts, not on the crap that others write about you. Your responses to me are in the same vein as your other responses.. always on the defence, always ready to strike back.
Fact2: You yourself are guilty of insinuating stuff without proof, just think about all the comments you made about the fact that your vendetta wasn’t caused by your banning, but by the actions “of a certain someone inside CIG who did something terrible to you”. Just state “who did what” and show proof of their actions.
Fact3: Your behaviour is just as toxic as the pro SC commenters on all the other fora/comment sections (where do you get the time to respond “everywhere???”). This behaviour invalidates the points you try to make. Your personal attacks on people, your zealous responses, your flooding of all things SC / DS related.
Fact4: I never said i trusted CIG and their accounting, nor did i say i believe they’re ‘evil at heart’. The only thing i’m saying is that the only way to get to the bottom of this is by keeping the discourse ‘clean of toxicity’.

or in simple words: “act like a scorned kid.. be treated like a kid”. Currently you’re acting like a kid so i can’t take you seriously :)

John Locke
10 days 20 hours ago

Having only recently (days ago) backed this game after loosely following it from the sidelines since it’s kickstarter, this is disconcerting stuff to read… I wont take sides on the issue because one, it’s beyond me as an individual, and two I know nothing of the history of your moral character or Chris Roberts, or anyone else involved in CIG. I took a chance at this without much investigation of the people behind it. Not to say I didn’t weigh both the negative media and the public and internal community praise it has received before I donated to it’s development… I mean, rich or poor $150 is $150. I mean, what was I thinking?

If you’re right about all of this, ultimately this entire venture will fail miserably. Not because of a possible change in direction of the game, or in leadership necessarily… But when there is a huge public blast on someone specific or an entire company that hundreds of thousands of people have entrusted with their money (LOTS of money) to create something special, and they come out the other side of that integrity check upside down, it will have a permanent effect on the future of whatever might be completed whether it’s a perfect product or complete rubbish.

This is a “dream game” for many of us, hell maybe even to you yourself, Derek. Yes, life will go on if this all comes crumbling down… But it’s really depressing to think that stuff like this has to happen. And in the same instance, it seems incredibly necessary as time goes on these days… Hopefully it all works out.

Kristoffer
10 days 14 hours ago

FYI John – In case you’re having second thoughts they do have a “no questions asked 14 day refund” policy. Since you wrote “days ago” that might be something for you to explore.

Soren
10 days 23 hours ago

I have read most of your blogs and some of the referenced material. You present your case very well. Enough to convince me there is cause to worry – no small feat since I’m truly a fanboy and even liked the Wing Commander movie.

But you may also be wrong. I have been a project manager for 15 years and have seen plenty of successful projects where you would still find lots of people complaining and predicting doom along the way.

What I’m left with is sadness.
Sadness because if you are right the project will most likely desintegrate.
Sadness because if you are wrong your efforts will have endangered the project instead of helping it.

I feel a less public investigation would have served just as well and put less stress on the project.

Steven Lockey
11 days 4 hours ago

Sorry but I can’t agree with this at all.
If there was a game I have a problem with its E:D not SC.

I backed both to the same amount, in fact E:D was slightly more.

With SC, I’ve seen constant progress, the game is gradually getting better and better, we are seeing more and more bits nearing completion. In fact most of the work that seems to need doing seems to be variable modifications, bug fixes and new features/more content.

What is already playable boasts more features and modifications than many fully released games. In fact, it could easily be argued that as there IS a playable game there, then they have fulfilled all of their original obligations.

Certainly the feature set and combat are already far superior to say E:D which is a supposedly released game.

So far I’ve seen zero evidence for this been a ‘con’. In fact there is plenty of evidence to support that the money is indeed been spent as intended by the backers.

As for delays and lateness, wasn’t it BC3000AD which you were developing that was SO LATE, the producers actually pulled the plug on it and released the game in an alpha state making it a complete abortion of a game? I would think you of all people should be sympathetic to delays in game development.
As I’m sure you are aware, delays happen in game production, sometimes things don’t happen as quickly as planned. So far we seem to be about 6-9 months behind the original predictions.

Please also note, EU rules on purchases DO NOT cover pledges which are not considered purchases for this reason as unlike in a purchase you are not expected to receive the product quickly.

I’d like you to actually present any actual evidence of any wrongdoing.
So far we’ve seen a MASSIVE amount of work put into SC. We’ve seen the building they are renting and many of the staff and contractors they have hired.
All the evidence we have seen directly contradicts everything you have been saying.

Do you have any information beyond speculation to think this is a scam? Because so far you haven’t shown any. If you have please show it. Otherwise you are only affecting your own credibility and making it look like you are just jealous of what CR is trying to do.

I sincerely hope this isn’t just a case of sour grapes on your part, but you’ve given every indication it is and none that it isn’t.

Kxmode
10 days 22 hours ago

RE: As for delays and lateness, wasn’t it BC3000AD which you were developing that was SO LATE, the producers actually pulled the plug on it and released the game in an alpha state making it a complete abortion of a game? I would think you of all people should be sympathetic to delays in game development.

You know I really hate this kind of illogical comparison. It’s like “If A + B = C and B + C = A then C obviously equals A.” What? They were NOT developed under the same conditions so its dishonest to compare them in the way in which you propose.

Jack
10 days 23 hours ago

BC3000AD was a product of a certain quality which was put on the market at a set price. Individuals could then make a decision whether to buy it impulsively, buy it after having done some research, or not buy it at all.

BC3000AD was a very different scenario to a crowd funded project in which a specific product was promised and subsequently changed.

Apples and oranges.

Why is it people seem to ignore the obvious issues apparent here and resort to diversionary discussion?

Derek Smart may or may not be the biggest wanker in the universe but that is not the issue here. The issue is whether one is accountable to deliver that which one promises to deliver in exchange for public funding.

When talk continually does not match reality there is something wrong and there is much talk which has proceeded from the Star Citizen project which is clearly not matching reality.

wane-bradee
10 days 23 hours ago

Wow! SC is more feature complete then Elite? What fucking planet do you live on dude? The rate of progress on the SC project is a joke. Braben said we would be landing on planets in elite a year after release, guess what, we will be landing on planets a year after release.

Dan
10 days 20 hours ago

I paid into the Elite premium beta at the end of April last year (ironically enough, just after SC failed to deliver the dogfighting module by the promised delivery date for the second time – I was on the fence with Elite before that) and caught the transition period where premium beta backers were allowed to play the “training missions”, which were just simple flight and combat scenarios. Having played Arena Commander a few days ago, I can safely say that SC is *still* not even near Elite’s alpha gameplay in terms of combat features, let alone the finished product.

To top it off I haven’t seen much in the way of improvements to the SC flight model since I tried it last year either. The ships still fly as if they have no mass, the weapons seem to have bottomless pools of energy powering them and the sound effects are just pitiful, the gameplay constantly reverts to circle-strafing turrets in space, the UI is form over function… Contrary to what many white knights believe, this isn’t stuff that can be solved “later” – these define the gameplay experience and should have been nailed down early in order to iterate on them with alpha/beta backers.

Dan
11 days 25 minutes ago

“What is already playable boasts more features and modifications than many fully released games. In fact, it could easily be argued that as there IS a playable game there, then they have fulfilled all of their original obligations.”

“Certainly the feature set and combat are already far superior to say E:D which is a supposedly released game.”

Ha! Ha ha ha! Oh, I thought that was a joke…

In what way is combat in SC as deep or engaging, or in ANY way superior, to E:D? It’s shallow, the HUD is too “pretty” to be useful in a combat situation, the gameplay is turrets in space circle-strafing one another with what seems to be unlimited pew-pew… 4 (or even 3!) years in this stuff should be actually interesting to watch by now.

And to echo johnsmith, how is the game better if they cannot manage to release the FPS module, given that their engine is one otherwise exclusively used for FPS… I have a little experience with game engines, and that tells me they’ve modified CryEngine so far away from its original state that what they have now is basically not only no longer fit-for-purpose, it is now fit-for-nothing.

johnsmith
11 days 1 hour ago

How is the game getting better and better if they cannot even manage to release the basic fps module? It’s been 3 years and still no demo.

Ygritte
11 days 2 hours ago

You Know Nothing, White Knight… I mean Jon Snow…

jcrg99
11 days 2 hours ago

“With SC, I’ve seen constant progress, the game is gradually getting better and better, we are seeing more and more bits nearing completion. In fact most of the work that seems to need doing seems to be variable modifications, bug fixes and new features/more content. What is already playable boasts more features and modifications than many fully released games. ”

“Certainly the feature set and combat are already far superior to say E:D which is a supposedly released game.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_yP6VBkqoE
lol

“In fact, it could easily be argued that as there IS a playable game there, then they have fulfilled all of their original obligations.”
/facepalm

“In fact there is plenty of evidence to support that the money is indeed been spent as intended by the backers.”

Is there? Awesome! I am not aware of that… So I have this simple question, tell us, please, the exact quantity of money that was already spent in the project and how much money is left?

“As I’m sure you are aware, delays happen in game production, sometimes things don’t happen as quickly as planned. So far we seem to be about 6-9 months behind the original predictions.”
Delay? I thought that the game was even fully released already, according with your position.
lol

“I’d like you to actually present any actual evidence of any wrongdoing.”
Items 1 to 6 cover it. They are facts. What you could bring are “excuses” which are baseless and based only in talking of a man that already lied to people many times (or was just wrong, if you are naive enough to think under these lines).

“So far we’ve seen a MASSIVE amount of work put into SC. We’ve seen the building they are renting and many of the staff and contractors they have hired.”
I see a massive amount of shows and marketing going on there. Massive amount of work for things that are not really the good faith to deliver the full game, as promised, ON or BEFORE the estimated released date, which in fact, by their own speech, they contradicted their own TOS, claiming, several times, that the estimated released date, simply does not matter (except that they promised to achieve and pursuit that, in a good faith effort, in their CONTRACT with their own CUSTOMERS) lol

“All the evidence we have seen directly contradicts everything you have been saying.”
What evidence? Do not turn the table. We brought the evidences and the facts, which you refuse to see and want to claim to us that the “evidence” are shows made in exchange of MORE real dollars gave constantly to them… millions of dollars actually, considering stretch goals marks achieved, who allowed them to make them, plus subscriptions. And what you have in your hands, after 4 years, well… that video speaks for itself.

“Certainly the feature set and combat are already far superior to say E:D which is a supposedly released game.”
lol
And the man wants to talk about “credibility”. Even between the majority of the white-knights and die hard fans, they would not say such nonsense.

Steven Lockey
11 days 21 minutes ago

“https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_yP6VBkqoE
lol”

Alpha and still better than E:D.
Not exactly great pilots either just using flying turret mode which isn’t exactly the best tactic either.

“Is there? Awesome! I am not aware of that… So I have this simple question, tell us, please, the exact quantity of money that was already spent in the project and how much money is left?”

They are not legally or morally required to provide that and it would cost money to actually work that out so why the hell should they provide it exactly? I never claimed exact figures, but calling it a con when you can SEE the money been spent on developers e.t.c. for the game is nonsense. No company provides this information…. so according to you all companies are cons? If not why are you holding CiG to a higher standard of accountability than every other country in the world…. including arms dealers….

Exact amounts of money are not required, never have been. Claiming they are is simply a straw-man argument.

“Delay? I thought that the game was even fully released already, according with your position.
lol”

Ah, I see, you have a reading problem. That explains a lot.

“I see a massive amount of shows and marketing going on there. Massive amount of work for things that are not really the good faith to deliver the full game, as promised, ON or BEFORE the estimated released date, which in fact, by their own speech, they contradicted their own TOS, claiming, several times, that the estimated released date, simply does not matter (except that they promised to achieve and pursuit that, in a good faith effort, in their CONTRACT with their own CUSTOMERS) lol”

Nope, try actually reading what they have said. CR has always said it will take how long it takes and they aren’t going to release it before it was done, that was one of the primary things he said about this crowd-funding model was that the game wasn’t going to be tied into strict release-dates, it would release when it was actually ready, unlike what happens with a publisher.

So, you’ve clearly paid no attention to what they have said, they never promised ‘on or before’ that date and already contacted all the original KS subscribers (I am one) about the change in plans which would require a longer development period, which was HEAVILY supported by the backers.

jcrg99
10 days 21 hours ago

“Alpha and still better than E:D.”
Both games started development at the same time. The combat of Elite have been great like it is today, since Alpha. The combat of SC sucks since it was released and never improved in any meaningful form. The leaderboards shown how poor is the level of participation. Even in the CIG Forums you only will find people giving reasons to do not play your “awesome” game that you claim to be better than Elite Dangerous, a game that have a lot more copies sold that SC have, since all that SC have, are the same 2k-5k people buying ships, again and again.

“Not exactly great pilots either just using flying turret mode which isn’t exactly the best tactic either.”

Just to let you know, those two guys are usual worldwide leaders in the CIG’s worldwide leader-board. If they are not exactly the best, imagine the worst.

“They are not legally or morally required to provide that and it would cost money to actually work that out so why the hell should they provide it exactly? I never claimed exact figures, but calling it a con when you can SEE the money been spent on developers e.t.c. for the game is nonsense. No company provides this information…. so according to you all companies are cons?”

They are morally required to provide that to their backers, considering that htey promised in the “Pledge” to treat their backers in the same way that they would treat a publisher. Show a publisher a lot of shows and fluff that they only show if the publisher to “pay them more”, instead the actual financial information, or a proper schedule of the project, with targets/estimates, etc., and he won’t be felt respected. You can be sure of that.
And they are legally required to show too, because they will fail to deliver (And already announce that) the complete game by Nov/2015, that is what they mislead their customers to believe with their contractual statements, earlier interviews, etc. And not achieving that mark, they mislead by the same contractual statements that would show the financial information.
AND, they changed that clause adding more time, which only makes them even more shady and proving that only made baits, both in their advertising and in their contract.
Who disrespect laws and contracts when crowdfunding are accountable – that is what you will hear from the Federal Trade Comission, which oversees this kinds of regulations in United States. Didn’t like that? Write to your Congress Man asking him to put yourself in the place of FTC to oversees the matter.

“Nope, try actually reading what they have said. CR has always said it will take how long it takes and they aren’t going to release it before it was done, that was one of the primary things he said about this crowd-funding model was that the game wasn’t going to be tied into strict release-dates, it would release when it was actually ready, unlike what happens with a publisher.”

So… he always said… one of the primary things that he said… ok… here… From the Kickstarter page:

“12 months in, we will allow the early backers to play the multiplayer space combat Alpha, and then 20-22 months in they will get to play the Star Citizen Beta, adventuring around the huge open galaxy”

“The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period.”

I am trying to read where is there, in any place of that advertising message, I could find CR saying that this game wasn’t tied to any release date.

“So, you’ve clearly paid no attention to what they have said, they never promised ‘on or before’ that date”

From their TOS:

“RSI agrees to use its good faith business efforts to deliver to you the pledge items and the Game on or before the estimated delivery date”

“and already contacted all the original KS subscribers (I am one) about the change in plans which would require a longer development period, which was HEAVILY supported by the backers.”

I would be interested to see where is your proof that it was HEAVILY supported by the backers. But you shouldn’t bother because its irrelevant. They can change a deal with customers, just because some approves. That is not the nature of this contract/deal, between all individual backers and this company.
To give you an example, since you clearly are a person with a lot of passion and a trend to be blind when discussing Star Citizen, if tomorrow they suddenly received a great number of requests to throw away this project to release it in a console, for example, they could get HEAVILY Support, in a pool for example, if all those people went there and voted and went in full force, more number than the own whales and zealots that CIG have today. Then, based on your own logic, they would be free to “change” that.

This is against the purpose of crowdfunding. That is NOT the purpose of crowdfunding. The purpose of crowdfunding is to fund project X and deliver project X, in the way that it was promised, including inside a time. Whatever does not respect this basic idea, is at risk of lawsuit from consumers, because they are in their right to complaint. And there is no excuse for the company. The company will pay fines, because was their responsibility to set the right advertising, the right estimates, instead creating true and clear baits, and more clear baits that those who exist and were implemented in the SC project, simply does not exist. And its all against the law, as recently even attorneys of Federal Trade Comission came to public and make that VERY CLEAR, as well as the content of the lawsuits won in favor of customers against crowdfunding campaigns described and set the precedence (not a single case was won in favor of any crowdfunding company at the moment… all the cases the exist in United States against crowdfunded projects, were won by customers, and the fines were all related to these basic premises, that Roberts disrespect not just in actions, but by his own speech, trying to reinvent, or redefine the purpose of crowdfunding, different from what the actual entities of consumer protection defined it)

Quasi
10 days 17 hours ago

Quite right. I have watched play videos from both ED (a complete game) and SC’s Arena Commander/Vaandul Swarm modules. To claim that SC is more complete is nothing short of laughable (note: as a backer I could download the SC modules myself, but with just a 120GB SSD I would have to delete every other game I have just to install a glorified tech demo. No thanks.)

It’s funny how the White Knights claim that it’s ok to violate the Kickstarter terms as long as there is some sort of majority vote. I’m afraid the law doesn’t work that way. The terms on a Kickstarter pledge are a legally binding contract. Kickstarter even says so .

It doesn’t matter if RSI contacted every backer and got “most” of them to agree to the changes. Even if 34,396 of the 34,397 KS backers agree to the changes, they are still legally held to the original terms! If that last backer doesn’t agree to the changes, and the changes are made anyway, then there are legal grounds to pursue for breach of contract. It may not even be possible to change the terms of the original contract even if 100% of backers agree. It has been many years since my Business Law class in college, but I remember the part about a contract not being legal if it requires one of the signers to break an existing contract.

Kenny
11 days 4 hours ago

Give a guy with experience making a B movie and games 20-25 years ago in the $100k range upwards of $70m to make a modern game. What the hell do you expect. I’ve heard rumors from fellow game devs that the Austin studio staff knows full well they’re on a wild goose chase. I just hope they release something… anything playable. I’ve wanted a Wing Commander sequel for decades.

Bob
10 days 6 hours ago

So what about Peter Jackson? He made shitty b-movies in the past and guess what? 25 years later he made Lord of the Rings.

Dan
9 days 15 hours ago

A diamond will generally shine, even through several layers of muck.
A turd will always be a turd, no matter how much you polish it.

Kerdac Imsal
11 days 4 hours ago

Derek, I know it takes some time to gather the proper information and clarify the allegations against CIG to present the most effective case, but sue these jackasses already! Unlike you, I wish to see Star Citizens burn. I would like to see them have to forfeit the money raised, back to the consumers and I would like to see YOU be the one to see it through. My hopes are high that a legitimate case will be presented before the end of the year, when it might be too late and they can claim a near finished product. Please consider being more aggressive on this.

jcrg99
11 days 1 hour ago

In no way they can produce anything until the end of the year, for which they could try to pretend that is the “finished product” or near of it.

Michael van Hulst
11 days 4 hours ago

Reading all this and the older blogs of Mr. Smart well I have to say it is all disturbing to me.
As more thing will come to light in the future I am not worried about SC don’t care about it anymore.

I am more worried about the gaming industry if this is all a big fraud in the end, what will happen?
It will be harder for starting developers, to even get started either via kickstarter or any other platform to raise money.
I find even more disturbing that no Gaming website or magazine even asked about it..
Well not before Mr. Smart started to blog about it.
And it was met with skepticism or worse, most articles I found felt like well Mr. Smart is the bad person in all of this.
I find this lack of media coverage also pretty disturbing.

Good or Bad it does not matter any more, it is clear now that a lot of money is given to the company with little to show.
Even I gave money via the RSI website there is no refund button I send out my support ticket to day to get a refund but my guess is I never get it back.

So what next when this goes to trail, how will this all play out I am from the Netherlands so bear with me.
I do not understand the U.S. judicial system it sounds to me as a long road to travel.
So I hope Mr. Smart is able to talk about this some more in his blog for the non U.S. Residents among us.

Mr. Smart you are doing the right thing here.

With respect en kind regards,
Michael

Echo
11 days 6 hours ago

From the leaked letter:
“He was not concerned with budget and memory. He was not concerned with time. He wanted what CR wanted- great looking screenshots. He dismissed my concerns about the time it will take to do characters like ships, tri count, and memory.”
This is very alarming, and it is also exactly what you have been saying since July about CR’s way of favoring graphics above practical considerations and technology limitations. Well done, Derek.

jcrg99
11 days 3 hours ago

It fits with the speech, almost like standard, with others that were shared in public, most recent and know example, was the revelations in that Kotaku article:
http://kotaku.com/why-star-citizen-is-taking-so-long-1724835913

It’s just me who thinks that this is not about perfectionism or been overzealous, but about to make the scheme so it take longer and longer to advance and achieve a “reality check” point (because you know, or have you noticed… as more time it takes, more profit those bosses will make, personally, from salaries, concept sales, etc., but hey… they need to make not just customers fools, but the employees too)?

David Han
11 days 7 hours ago

I must admit I am interested to see how this plays out. If CR is indeed taken to court over this I must admit I’d be more than a little shocked as that def. is a whole lot of money they collected. I would never have even thought of such a thing happening in the gaming industry. Time will tell.

Zambooka
11 days 7 hours ago

“In case you were wondering, according to the crowd-funding campaign, at $5m, they promised to deliver 70 star systems, and $6m, there would be 100. Each one of these has a landing zone powered by this Social Module. Thus far, they have only released only one. One (!).”

Just a quick question.. Where do they promise a landing zone in each system on launch?

Rharan
11 days 8 hours ago

In the European Union, The Directive on Consumer Rights (2011/83/EC) replaces, as of 13 June 2014, Directive 97/7/EC on the protection of consumers in respect of distance contracts.

Of interest is

4.2.5. The binding nature of pre-contractual information “Accordingly, the information provided on the trader’s website should be binding on the
parties and, if the trader wishes to alter any of its elements, he should obtain the consumer’s
express consent”

4.3.4.1. Time of delivery or performance “The agreed date would then constitute the ‘agreed’ time of delivery, as referred to in
Article 18 (see also Chapter 7 on delivery).”

6. THE RIGHT OF WITHDRAWAL

“Article 9 gives the consumer 14 days to withdraw from a distance or off-premises contract
without giving any reason.”

“Accordingly, ’14 days’ in this provision should mean 14 calendar days starting from the day
following the day on which the relevant event occurs (i.e., the conclusion of the contract or
delivery of goods):”

Basically all the above means that anyone spending money or RSI credits on the Roberts Space Industries website in the European Union after June 2014 can withdraw from the contract and obtain a full refund without giving a reason. This ability to do this will only cease 14 days after delivery of the completed Star Citizen game.

The Roberts Space Industries terms of service has no effect on this ability as in the European Union consumers are prevented from waiving their basic consumer rights. They won’t agree willing, obviously but if anyone wants a refund in the EU, if you push it and know your rights they will have to refund you under the above.

Mr_Horn
11 days 9 hours ago

Derek,
the majority of the people who have actually played this game are quite happy with the progress. Did it ever occur to you to first try the product before writing a long ranting blog about it? This seems quite unprofessional to me.

jcrg99
11 days 3 hours ago

“the majority of the people who have actually played this game are quite happy with the progress. ”
Source?

Jennifer Reitz
11 days 11 hours ago

I simply wanted to say thank you, to you, for taking what must be an enormous amount of effort and time to sort this sordid business out. Early on I felt that Star Citizen, as a project, seemed dubious at best and it seems clear now that this is so. You put up with so much abuse simply for doing what Ralph Nader would have done, what any hero of the consumer in days past would have done – something for which you should be cheered for.

I, cheer for you. Good on you, Mr. Smart. It is a tiny thing, perhaps, this note. But as little as it is, I wanted to at least let you know that there is someone who feels you are doing something worthwhile and valid in terms of protecting consumers and investors in projects such as these.

Go, Mr, Smart. Defeat that dragon. And maybe there will be less fraud in the future as a result.

– Jennifer Reitz

Kristoffer
11 days 12 hours ago

I’m a very result-oriented kind of person. Only one person have ever affected me with words alone (and that was 25 years ago!). For me it’s actual results that matter. And that goes both ways in this entire debate.

Chris Roberts is very, very far from delivering the game he’s sold on us. Just looking at the state of the game now, 3 years after the KS pitch and you realise it’s years away. However, his past results like Wing Commander 3 and 4 are the reasons why I took the chance to pledge money for this. Not “invest”, since “invest” suggest I expect a financial gain which I really don’t. I helped fund the development of SC but I don’t hold any stakes or stocks and will gain nothing if it blows away salesrecords or just blows.

Derek, you are very, very far from delivering on the things you’ve suggested at delivering – an FTC or even FBI investigation into RSI/CIG and a lawsuit to ultimately bring down the Roberts. You don’t even have to read between the lines to see that is your end game. So far it’s alot of words and promises but nothing substantial and no “smoking gun”, not publically anyway (and “trust me, we have proof” doesn’t do squat with me as stated earlier). And it wouldn’t be fair to bring up the games you’ve made over the years quite simply because I’ve never heard of them before and never played them.

Either way, everybody loses :(

In the end … I just want to play the game…

Stan
3 days 1 hour ago

There is a professionalism standard here we can expect to be met.

We expect proper project planning and reporting at the very least.

Mr. Barrow
11 days 14 hours ago

SO last months blog was covered on MSVOP.com I and maybe 2 others tried to attempt a defense of what you were trying to do. All i can say was i got threats in my private messages and a few e-mails that were strange.

Needless to say the comments made on that board were 90% white knight a-holes who would just verbally (typed) abuse anyone who agreed with you or me are the other few who supported you.

I will be content supporting Mark Jacobs and Camelot Unchained, he knows how to show accountability now (yes WAR was terrible).

Thanks again Derek, people like you try and keep people like me safe from scammers and charlatans. Keep up the good fight, cause you are one of the few who will.

Kxmode
11 days 14 hours ago

Derek regarding “There is a whole history there between [Ortwin], Chris, and failed German movie investment ventures.” When I read this part it sparked a memory I had of reading an article about Uwe Boll and his connection to German tax breaks. It took me awhile but I found the article.

http://www.cinemablend.com/features/Uwe-Boll-Money-For-Nothing-209.html

I’ll quote key points from the article…

“But crucially, the bizarre tax laws in Germany mean that any wealthy Germans who invest in a movie can write-off the production cost, delay paying their taxes and generally reduce their tax burden. When you disseminate all the boring legal business law surrounding it the bottom line is this – the German investors in a movie only pay tax on any RETURNS the movie makes, their investment is 100% deductible, so the minute the movie makes a profit, said investor has to start paying tax. Plus the investors can actually borrow money to put towards investment and write that off too. Assuming you’re a sharp enough businessman you have a potential goldmine in the making; a way to make money from investing in bad movies… “

“The truth of it all is that Boll’s entire shtick is in essence, a sham. He’s not a bad director under the true definition. He just isn’t a director period. He’s only bad because he has no intention of trying to direct a coherent movie, let alone be good. All he needs is 90 minutes of celluloid and a good sales pitch for his investors. He’s not flying in the face of adversity Ed Wood style; he’s rubbing his palms at the awfulness of the dailies, thinking of how much money his fingers-on-chalkboard scenes will make in tax rebates.”

“It is, in fact a carefully managed show, a performance with one purpose and one purpose only; to ensure the maximum amount of negative publicity possible for his project because Boll knows fine and well, the worse his movie does, the better return he will get from his tax break.”

Does this about sum up the “failed German movie investment ventures” between Ortwin and Chris?

thisisnotanexit
11 days 15 hours ago

CIG put a ban on any topics dealing with Derek Smart or any Derek Smart material. Even though it is not actually mentioned anywhere, CIG informed moderators to silence anyone on the chat or forums about you

Vestinious
11 days 4 hours ago

I have today got a full refund as my main concern at the start was the censorship of the forum.

Ben
11 days 4 hours ago

As has been stated here previously, the community can get rather negative rather quickly. So by telling their moderators to not allow talk about a controversial figure for the company right now should be applauded. This stops continuous streams of trash talking and bad mouthing from those who chose to make the forums a more toxic place (which thankfully I have yet to run into personally). Not to mention I have actually brought up Mr. Smart a couple of times with no problem and no ban / deletion. It’s all in how you phrase it and speak about him. If it isn’t bashing and name calling, they usually just let it slide, unless of course someone else then goes into the negativity. Then the thread is closed for trolling.

Quasi
11 days 19 hours ago

Thank you so much for the hard work you have put in to this investigation Mr. Smart. Normally this sort of thing is what the gaming media should be doing. Unfortunately, things like Gamergate and the Dorito Pope scandal have shown us that games media is so dependent on freebies and advertising dollars that they will never do a real investigation into ANY studio. To do so could jeopardize their “free” games, “exclusive” access, and most importantly, ad revenue.

A few years ago I stumbled upon Star Citizen via some article or post (too long ago to remember). This was at the point after the Kickstarter had finished, but before they had even raised 6 million. The game was promised as something like EVE, but with a 1st person flight sim interface with nice (but NOT AAA) graphics. It sounded cool and easily doable with current technology. I mean, they were basically just going to make EVE look better and be more immersive. What could go wrong?

This was also at the beginning of the whole crowdfunded-open-alpha phase that gaming is “enjoying” now where you pay a discounted price now during development, get full alpha and beta testing access, and then get the full game plus a few “extras” for being a backer. Sounded like a great deal. I plopped down $40 for one of the more modest packages. Since there was no actual alpha at the time, and the fact that I hate message boards, I slowly forgot about Star Citizen. Fast forward to 2015 and I see a link to “Interstellar Citizens” in the Twitter feed of a reviewer who’s opinions I trust.

What I read stunned me. I hadn’t followed the “progress” of SC at all in the past two years, preferring to wait until they had something physical (in a virtual sense) for me to play. You methodically pointed out that the game scope had morphed into some unrecognizable mish-mash of star-fighter sim, Call of Duty, MMO, and any other genre they can cram in. That alone made me open my eyes and see what was going on, as all I wanted was the simple space sim with a dynamic economy I had been promised. Now, I don’t even think RSI is even TALKING about that deep economy. You remember, the one that was supposed to be based on whether or not players were able to successfully transport goods from planet to planet while avoiding pirate blockades. That was a primary selling point, now pushed back way behind other things that were later added.

So it was clear that RSI was at best incompetent, and at worst, committing outright fraud. We may have had to wait nearly a month for “The Long Con”, but it too, was eye opening. I no longer sit in the “incompetent” camp. With the claim (and hopefully soon solid evidence) that backer capital is being mingled with personal funds…. Lets just say that there is absolutely no industry where this is ethical, and in the majority of industries this is downright illegal. Right now, I don’t even care if RSI is doing anything illegal, the amount of unethical things they are doing should be more than enough to form a mob of angry backers demanding action.

If I may be so bold, I believe that the Hollywood connections Chris Roberts has will bear the most fruit when it comes down to investigating unethical/illegal behavior. Hollywood has been a cesspit of backdoor dealings and sliding money under desks for decades. The game industry is relatively new to this sort of thing, and if indeed CR is bringing this sort of sleaze to the game industry it can be far more devastating than merely undermining the faith in crowd sourced game development that you initially stated as the reason for calling RSI out.

Sorry for the length, but there is so much wrong in what RSI is doing I can see why you need multiple novel length posts over months just to even scratch the surface.

tom
11 days 20 hours ago

Given the impending legal action
Will you be filing in CA? I have a PACER account and would like to track this.
Have you received any restraining orders yet?

we are left with no choice but to take legal action
Is that the royal “we” or will your co-plaintiffs also be putting their names on this? Have you or will you form an entity to act in this respect?

Accordingly, you agree that any unearned portion of the deposit shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the pledge items and/or the Game to you within 12 months after the estimated delivery date
TOS says you can’t get a refund until 12 months, but doesn’t say it is an automatic condition of the contract, only that 12 months is the reasonable delay after which you can ask for one NQA … that doesn’t require a lawsuit, just a reasonable e-mail.

disjointed, incomplete and broken mess of a product
which I played for 6 hours this weekend and 2 last night. loads of fun, especially mastering all the different available ships (av, horn:s-m, glds, gldtr, cutls, 300i-r, merlin, must:a-d, aur:b-l) 9 different varieties with additional 8 variants?

jcrg99
11 days 18 hours ago

“which I played for 6 hours this weekend and 2 last night. loads of fun, especially mastering ”

yeah yeah… ok… no doubt 1% of the backers loved this (“mastering”… shouldn’t you say “mousering”?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_yP6VBkqoE

lol

tom
10 days 22 hours ago

Looks like they are having fun with a playable game …

Og Ogilvy
11 days 20 hours ago

Ortwin Freyermuth sounds like a WC Fields character. Its weird how the SC fans build him up into being some incredible hotshot lawyer, but so far his reputation is based on being friends with Chris Roberts. Anybody find any evidence of what a great lawyer he is otherwise?

Scharmers
11 days 20 hours ago

I’m reading all of this, but I’m not sure I’m seeing a con. I’m not seeing CR as the classic, evil Enron-style peckerhead, but rather a Molyneux clone who is better at raising money… and, perhaps, is only beginning to see the “PROMISE EVERYTHING!” trap close around him.

So: incompetence, rather than malice.

Still, kicking over the anthill on this one might make Roberts, Molyneux, and the rest of the old men trying to refund their youth on our cash think twice next time.

jcrg99
12 days 34 minutes ago

The letter of the former employee that was leaked, once again, fits with all other statements that were already brought to attention of people in statements, including, in that article of Polygon.
At this point, people denying how wrong the things are been managed and how possibly worst things are going on there, are certainly living in denial, and those, are hopeless.
It’s very possible that Roberts and co. are just playing with the employees, asking them to redo things, so the venture take longer, meaning more time to “reality check” coming, meaning, a game that they obviously are not capable to deliver, coming half-assed and suffering with a great amount of criticism, as well as leading them, with the “release” event, having to let people “earn” everything by gameplay and stopping with the ship sales.
Just look to the “reality check” of what they actually delivered so far. It’s far to be accepted by their customer, in general. And between the die-hard fans, the majority does not even play it, because its simply bad, and half-assed, bad designed by itself.
So, definitely, in one hand, they have to delude customers, but also, the employees, and this micro-managing way, leading to Roberts making and setting how effective the development is going to be to deliver results, making all the decisions, approving/disapproving, is the easy way to control the thing to take longer to advance, which, coincidence, gives them more income, with more time available to make seasonal ship sales, to the same evangelized to buy.
Who cares with promises, who cares with the majority of the public, if its just the minority are those who gives them free/easy money? Clearly that is the motto of CIG team, which they, obviosuly, adopt in close circles and reflect that in their strategy, not openly stating that to do not destroy for good the motivation of many employees that wouldn’t accept to work in such falsity basis.
Its a long con indeed, lead by Roberts and closest associates (including members of his own family)… employees, backers, press and the general public are been conned.

Andrew
11 days 33 minutes ago

Do you have a link to the leaked letter? Thanks :)

jcrg99
12 days 50 minutes ago

“Actually in accordance to their own TOS they don’t have that responsibility set to go into effect until the they are unable to deliver the game in total. It doesn’t actually state the 12 / 18 month timeline in that section, that only refers to refunds. ”

Actually both clauses are clearly connected and, even if they only promised to share accountability in the “fail” event, under their perspective, they implied (opened to interpretation of general customers reading the thing) that this “fail event” would be not delivering in the estimate delivery date + 12 months (later updated to 18, which makes the clause, meaningless, a bait, as a whole).

So, I have two news for you. When building a contract to general customer, mainly related to internet deals, you can’t:
1-) Make it ambiguous
2-) Make it meaningless, just a bait.

So, basically, they will end accountable, due how they phrased those clauses, how they changed those clauses, to accomplish with the “promise” according with the interpretation of the customer, which in fact, was almost like a common sense.

In past discussions in the CIG Forums, the backers were basically unanimous on saying that “people only could start to require anything for CIG, accountability for example, after passed that 12 months time after the end of 2014”.

Ben
11 days 19 hours ago

I find this odd, I feel like you are quoting my comment, but I don’t see my original comment anywhere in this comment section…..odd…..

But anyway I don’t see the TOS as ambiguous, they start by stating that if they fail to deliver the game, then they will give an accounting of all funds. Further into the paragraph, they explain that if they fail to deliver in a certain time frame then you may request a refund of the “unearned portion of your pledge.” Seems pretty straight forward to me, and in my mind if they intended to actually link the two they would have. So in essence you are creating an inference with the dates that’s not actually written in there.

But either way it doesn’t really matter what you or I think or how we read these statements. And really I think everyone can see that no matter what CIG might release even if they do follow through with the accounting it won’t be something that will satisfy you or Mr. Smart. Because even if they did release this information, you do realize it is going to be ridiculously generic right? Such and such amount to this team, or toward this module. They won’t get into anything specific.

And honestly I really don’t see anyway through our current legal system that you or Mr. Smart, or anyone else for that matter, will ever see anything more specific than what they might release on their own. I mean an actual auditor commented on one of Mr. Smart’s previous blogs stating that without signing a NDA or something similar you would never be legally allowed to see such documentation.

And I’ve never stated that this won’t end in some sort of potential accountability. I’m just reiterating that if you think you will have access to this financial accountability in any form I really don’t see how that could possibly happen.

jcrg99
11 days 17 hours ago

“Further into the paragraph, they explain that if they fail to deliver in a certain time frame then you may request a refund of the “unearned portion of your pledge.”

Ok. Now stop and think for a second in what you just said. And considering that this clause (the certain time frame) changed, unilaterally by decision of the company, without approval of all customers involved, answer me a simple question:

What is the point of the clause then? Why such clause exists in the first place in the contract? If the whole purpose of the clause is to say that in a period of time this or that would happen, tying or not the further statements “for the benefit of doubt, sharing accountability” to that, which pretty much depends of the reader, and its ambiguous, because as I told you, many customer read that just in the way that I read to you – and customers are not attorneys, so, that’s why this kind of contract must to be clear and the customer must to understand that, without space to different interpretations, but then, they go there and change that time expanding to, whatever time they want… so what is the point of the clause?
Seriously.
Think about that for a few seconds. A few seconds would be enough so you understand the issue, which basically transform contractual clauses in what is popular know as “bait” and which is considered legally as something “deceptive”, which mislead customers to help them to make their buying decisions, and that, you know, is against the law of United States. Doing that approach, both in their advertising AND in their contract is, alone, not considering other measures of possible scams that are going on, defrauding customers, its bad faith on business (which is funny, because they used the term “good faith” in their TOS too).

“And I’ve never stated that this won’t end in some sort of potential accountability. I’m just reiterating that if you think you will have access to this financial accountability in any form I really don’t see how that could possibly happen.”

I don’t want to have access to it. I want a thirdy party that has no ties to Chris Roberts and co. making forensic accountability and telling me that everything is fine. I don’t need or want to get my hands into the details. Probably neither Mr. Smart. Just the “its ok” is enough. Like we both or anyone who talks about that, woudl be satisfied if FTC acted first and told us that investiaged and they are ok, nothing wrong. Even Smart hoped that FTC could act, even knowing, that they are slow. Or FBI, you know. Any authority that could tell us that they are ok would be enough.

The thing is. they are not ok in many things. With a lawsuit, they will pay fines because they did a lot of things wrong in terms of advertising, consumer laws, etc. They will have to pay fines for that, regardless accountability. Regardless if they are making business with the mafia, washing money, or just spending in cocaine, whores and pet movies, whatever. All these kinds of shit, would make me and Derek so surprised as anyone else. But, we can’t deny that, considering their trend to lie, and their overreaction when confronted with simple questions that are legit and should be answered, they act defensively in a way of never showing anything, never answering, and quickly or imeditally, trying to create a scenario where who asked is a kind of demon in an ultimate evil plot against those angels.

So, I expect a lot of things wrong, regarding consumer disrespect, and they paying fines for educational purposes. But if worst things are going there, we should know too, why the hell not. But my intention, at least, is that with the payment of fines, they will learn. And will start to follow better practices. That is just what happened with many many companies in our world who started to make shit, until a lawsuit came and put them on track again. Its something very simple and common. Games are not special snowflake. All this romance about “Chris Roberts”, “crowdfunding”, “hopes and dreams” are pure blablabla. This is a contract between consumers and a company, and the company disrespected that in many ways, but at the same time, try to use this same contract to deny rights of customers, like if it does not work in both ways, its a one-way street road. And that is not what contracts with customers are for.

All this bullshit of dev celebrity. And people shouldn’t “dare” to question them, because it “must” to be constructive. All this is the biggest bullshit that I ever heard. We are customer. We obviously should question and should make critics, regardless constructive. They were paid to deliver something, and did not deliver. What is all this show of “no case” is about? Again… A lot of bullshit. In a court of law, all this bullshit will be out of there. What matters are the facts, the law, not the excuses of “why they broke the law” ok?

Ben
11 days 5 hours ago

Ok your rant was lovely there, but has little to nothing to do with anything I have ever posted on this blog. But really please let me know when any other video game TOS has only changed with the approval of all customers involved. Fair warning, that would be never. The company can change their TOS, that’s their right. It is our right to fight them on that if required, but changing it is their right as a company. And no, you or I as a customer of said company have zero say if and when that happens, but we do have the right to take them to court over it if we believe it is fraudulent (which is exactly what Mr. Smart is doing).

And in your own mind, if they had intended for the timeline to be for both sections of that paragraph they would have mentioned the date earlier. In a legal document the preceding information carries through the form, unless changed / modified, so the fact that they didn’t reference the date until the discussion of refunds means that the date refers to the refunds and not the previous statements (this is from my lawyer during a contract negotiation, she may be wrong but I trust her). And just for the record, I also find the changing of the timeline to be suspect (why they didn’t just START with overshooting and say 24 months or 32 months and then hopefully deliver it early is anyone’s guess), but again the legality of that move is not for me or you to conjecture about since neither of us are lawyers.

And it’s hilarious that you think that TOS must be clear for the customer to understand, also not true. The TOS must be legally clear and concise to be legally binding. It doesn’t matter if Joe Schmoe can read it and understand every word of it, it only matters if legal counsel can back up the wording chosen and used, to a judge. (which is apparently is about to be tested) But again as we both state our opinions don’t actually matter, so this is a moot argument.

Clearly you have already made up your mind as to what is going on with CIG, the mafia, really?!?!? But with this, “when confronted with simple questions that are legit and should be answered, they act defensively in a way of never showing anything, never answering, and quickly or immediately, trying to create a scenario where who asked is a kind of demon in an ultimate evil plot against those angels.” Who is this “they” you refer to? Because from everything I’ve seen (and granted I haven’t seen everything so please feel free to enlighten me) but Chris and other higher ups are evasive in their responses, but not demonizing. But then again that may heavily depend on each of our definitions of “demonizing,” ie. inferring that CR is spending money on whores, coke and conducting business with the mafia is kinda of “demonizing” CR isn’t it? (just a little pot and kettle logic right there)

I’m still having issue with all this talk of “fraud,” other than the missed deadlines (which happen in everything related to video games, just ask Mr. Smart with LOD and having to completely change the engine). Also the statement that they won’t be using money for advertising was a major thing that Mr. Smart stressed in our previous dialogue, but again that all depends on your definition of the word “advertising.” Does that include trade shows, in some people’s mind yes. In other’s minds, that is just part and parcel of doing business in the gaming world, so it’s a standard business expense.

Anyway, I’ve never stated that we shouldn’t question CIG, nor CR. I am not a white knight defending CIG here, just someone trying to sort through all of this. And I haven’t, personally, seen really any evidence that screams fraud. There have been some missteps, and CR should really learn to shut his mouth when it comes to dates, but other than that I’m just waiting for Mr. Smart to show the rest of his evidence, which is supposedly damning. But until that happens I am holding off my judgement and remaining neutral between the two and just asking questions for further clarification.

Kxmode
12 days 57 minutes ago

I think CIG calling their events “CitizenCon” is just a little too suspicious especially when most of the money is coming from existing Backers.

jcrg99
12 days 1 hour ago

I am not sure that “forensic accountability” is even necessary due the amount of proof of bad faith attitude to deliver ON or BEFORE the estimated delivery date, as described by their own TOS And by the Federal guidelines publicly shared by authorities, messages misleading consumers, lies, etc., which are all public record and those who claims that “it does not prove nothing” are simply ignorant about how consumer issues actually work and are evaluated, both by legal authorities and feds.
They basically said that don’t care with what they presented and estimated, and many times, like if it was something ok and legal, based in a false premise (urban legend) of no liability because “its crowdfunded project”, which obviously is not true, and this is all about misinformation widespread, as convenient to give the freedom to crowdfund projects, to do “whatever”.
And fans fail to see the lack of logic of what they claim. They claim that CIG is ok and is acting in “good faith” because “they are working in the game”, but that is simply, a “contract” that does not exist and they made up, out of the thin air, since the contract between backers and the company, is that CIG would show “good faith” to deliver ON or BEFORE the estimated delivery date (plus 12 months, in a worst case scenario, implied as the “fail to deliver” scenario, triggering refunds and accountability), instead their logic “good faith to deliver in whatever future or ever”.
CIG did not make a contract of “we are going to try without schedule and the sky is the limit”. They made a contract stating, “we are going to do this by this period”.

So, even that they are not a total fraud, they are obligated to accomplish with their promises, per the contract and per the advertising, and if they do not, they will have to pay fines in lawsuits… this is a certainty (and yes, we already know that they won’t accomplish, because they already announced that the game is coming, at least, one year after the “worst case contractual scenario”). And the fact that they pretend, lie, twist, dumb-down the public, and attack customers who are in their rights is more than enough evidence that a judge would need to show how they mislead the public, and how they have, possibly, worst things to hide, since they have a CLEAR advantage of not delivering in any time soon. More time, more personal profit from salaries/bonus from a project, that THEY could already had figured out that it won’t be ever accepted, under the circumstances (hype, advertising made earlier, etc.) by the market/press/backers, etc. So, they cash what they can, while they can, from who they still can (and here we see their entire focus on selling expensive concepts for those who are already backers, since a long long time, and usually getting the same number of people buying then, from what we can analyse looking to the grow of their main counter).

The fact that they approve/disapprove pieces of art, leading to bad work/rework, etc., all this waste of time, and CR micro-managing, is another red flag that could mean that, the owners of the company, are more interested to make it take longer, for the reasons above stated.

Obviously a forensic accountability is something necessary to discover worst things, but in the basics, clearly any lawsuit presenting the facts that you and other people already presented, are enough to lead CIG to pay strong fines in a court case, in whatever place of United States.

And who says the contrary are absolutely clueless about how consumer issues are evaluated by the authorities, and could be even refusing to know and understand it better.

For some reason also, the usual suspects who defend CIG (always the same people, in a group which never grows since more than 2 years ago – they are not that good on creating “new white knights”) think that an action only would be taken seriously, IF and only IF, the “long con leader” announced the project cancelled and/or went silence. The flaw on such argument is that, it would open a precedence (if that was “ok” and “allowed” after analysed by a judge, for example) where any con man, which manages to sustain itself in some form (selling expensive new concepts for example, receiving more money ‘to share’ information, for example?), would be able to keep a long con, basically, you know… forever.

So, such argument is simply ridiculous and baseless, from people that lacks simple logic… totally.

I can agree that FTC and other authorities could have “a filter”, not going so deep to investigate “long con” and just looking into actual “con” established with an announcing of non-delivering or disappearing without updates, because they are federal agencies… so… just imagine the millions and millions of complaints that they receive in a daily basis and have to deal, related to all kinds of business, but that simply does not mean that any customer would not have a case.

And to be fair with FTC, they just started to check crowdfunding matters/complaints, so, it will take a while yet, so they start to go deep in “long con” matters like the Star Citizen case.

The true is, they will deny and are just worried in making campaigns of marketing to dismiss whatever argument brought, against things that are seriously easy to see and notice when you look to the project objectively and based on consumer/marketing/ad and other related United States laws.

I am going to give an example: There is a user in Massively Op, aka rioinsignia, which responds on twitter and CIG Forums by the aka Takaroshe, which lacks total logic and reason, when the subject is related to Space Sim games, specially Star Citizen. (it’s funny really to notice his total bias, because he always demonstrates that is never worried with Star Citizen matters, and dismiss everything, but will be the first to raise similar thoughts about worries, or even forced ones, when the subject of the news is Elite Dangerous – the main competitor of Star Citizen).

But he is usually encouraged by the same group, as someone “mature”, with “reason”, and they usually speak to each other, making up conversations, to try to give to eventual readers, the idea that “its common sense by their mature dialogue, how Derek Smart is wrong, and how CIG made absolutely nothing wrong”… and when confronted by other more reasonable users, with arguments and federal statements that proves how wrong they are, they usually use their packs to simply get you banned from the places that they are, because you are “bashing” Star Citizen, so, again, only their opinions stay and are presented to the “eventual reader”. Clearly, a marketing agenda, that if confronted, they deny, but in their own statements (when not confronted and in their dialogues or even accusing others) they reveal what their agenda really is, and they will do whatever, to try to dumb-down the public.

An example of how he and others usually twist the facts to fit in their agenda, you, Derek Smart, recently twitted about updates given by the developer of the game Limit Theory (also crowdfunded) after an year of silence of its developer. He, with the help of other usual suspects started their “dialogue practice to try to form the general opinion of the public” to claim that you, Derek Smart, hate the Space Sim genre, because you “bashed” in your twitter comment, the “Limit Theory” game, when you referred that after one year of silence.

Then, someone (an eventual reader, probably a backer with knowledge about the issues going on), which they accused to be me (and that is always fun to read their try to minimize the problem as only “two personas in the world complaining about SC”), answered that this would not mean that you hate the Space Sim genre and after an year of silence of ANY crowdfunded project, obviously, it would raise even more questions than are raised against CIG, and he was even confronted by that user, which stated that he should imagine that happening with Star Citizen, 1 year of silence, if that would not be a reason to be worried or criticize about. His answer was basically that you, Derek Smart, was “uninformed” because if you bored to check, you would know that the guy behind Limit Theory was under “depression”.

While we can feel sad by his difficult personal issue, he still got public money to deliver a project, and did not update anyone for more than an year, and, with all due respect, whatever long con man could simply come and say that “is in depression” and then, would not hold accountable for anything, after got thousands of dollars, (or millions of dollars in the case of Chris Roberts). Questioning one year of silence and such excuse that could be gave by whatever long con man, is “hate the genre”? Seriously? (to be fair, I don’t even require anything of the Limit Theory development, but definitely, his backers could or should, obviously, considering the situation too, since that is a “one-ma” project, but still, he promised something and had to deliver, anyway… crowdfunding is not a party, it comes with a risk for who is doing the campaign – as wisely stated by the Washigton GA in the settled crowfunding court case). Who hate the genre here? The customer? Or the lead of the campaign who burned the image of the crowdfunding not accomplishing with his own promise?

So, these are just examples, of how they twist logic and reason, and show their 100% of ignorance about simple matters of law. They always follow the assumption, apparently, that games and crowdfunding are some kind of special snowflake, above the law, which allows developers making deals, disrespecting that deal, and then using that deal, which they disrespected in the first place, as “the reason” to do not give money back to people, between other attitudes. So, in their twisted mind, a deal only gives rights to one party, and the other, have no rights.

And they use, whatever ignorant conclusion, to try to dumb-down the general public. For example, the FOIA request, which means absolutely nothing because FTC won’t share anything about an investigation in progress (even that is irrelevant to the issue if they are, or aren’t investigating, since its just a matter of their lack of resources, not because “they looked into it and concluded that CIG is doing ok” – which ONLY at this case, it would have meaning), they tried to use that as a campaign, so people “do not believe on you”, even that you, Derek Smart, never mentioned about any federal investigation going on, except that you contacted them (which anyone can do) and opened complaints, like many other backers did, and actually you made clear that is taking an action to try to prevent the worst, because in the end, with the natural slow pace of a Fed action due their resources/priorities and impossible demand level, will be too late to save the image of the crowdfunding/space sim genre of the SC disaster.

And here is where they fail to see under a neutral perspective. Nobody needs to “believe on you”, because the statements that you brought in your articles, clearly proves that CIG is doing wrong, has been lied, and whatever they say today, won’t happen tomorrow, because this is simply, the standard. I followed this project enough, to know, that not a single plan presented by Roberts, short/medium/long term, worked. not a single one. All their plans failed or were totally changed and something very worst of what was imagined, came out.

Seriously. Changing a clause, making it totally meaningless (just a bait) that starts with the sentence… “for the benefit of the doubt”… only means that you are totally ok in having doubts, right?

The thing that you asked for is accountability to be sure that something “worst” is going on,, because, you have to be seriously naive to think that iss not, after so many lies and misleading messages of that team, after their defensive/gestapo attitude with backers, and even public disrespect of customers who were in their rights to complaint, because the company failed to accomplish with THEIR promise, so, basically, the “word of Roberts”, his “updates” means absolutely nothing at this point, because the fact that they mislead, lied to the public, etc., this is all fact, and public record, and they can’t deny, seriously, except by claiming that “it does not prove nothing”, which is fully based in their lack of understanding of how consumer laws/marketing laws are interpreted, evaluated/enforced, and what is required from a customer to prove when having their rights usurped. Pure ignorance. For example, here’s a brand new comment of the same CIG marketing puppet user rioinsignia (aka Takaroshe on twitter and CIG Forums):

He says:

“Smart is still making lots of allegations and accusations and has STILL yet to produce ANY evidence that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that CIG are acting illegally.”

Probably, in the view of this people (I sincerely doubt that they are so ignorant and they are more like trying to dumb down more the general audience, not sure with what purpose, because the lawsuit is on the way anyway, and the “general audience” won’t be there judging the case, but instead, it will be a judge looking to the facts, instead looking to excuses), probably what he is asking for, and the only valid evidence here, would be a footage of Chris Roberts paying whores, drinks, whatever, and in the footage screaming “Yeah, fools, I am paying this with SC backers money”. Actually, I don’t doubt, if such unnecessary “evidence” was provided, he probably would say that “Oh, but that was just Roberts drunk and making a joke, that proves nothing”.

Vestinious
12 days 1 hour ago

Derek how do I contact you, I tried via FB earlier.

Question
12 days 1 hour ago

Mr. Smart,

Can you clarify a few points for me regarding your involvement in any legal measures that are being taken? Reading the blog post, take away differing impressions of your level of legal involvement, and where you fit in the process. Is there an active FTC criminal investigation, charges, or complaint filed with the agency or others? Are you personally pursuing legal action, or building a case as a class? Have you been sued by CIG/RSI? Again, reading different parts of your post point to varying degrees of “yes” answers to most of those questions, but in the end, I am left unsure.
Thank you for your time.

Vestinious
12 days 2 hours ago
Kxmode
12 days 1 hour ago

Thanks for sharing.

I found six active corporations where Ortwin Freyermuth is listed as a “Registered Agent”. My understanding is a registered agent in United States business law is a business or individual designated to receive service of process (SOP) when a business entity is a party in a legal action such as a lawsuit or summons.

STATE FINANCIAL CORPORATION
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/Los-Angeles/state-financial-corporation/39727770.aspx

RISING STAR MANAGEMENT, LLC
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/rising-star-management-llc/47066194.aspx

RISING STAR PICTURES, LLC
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/rising-star-pictures-llc/46498300.aspx

TWIN BROS. PRODUCTIONS, INC.
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/twin-bros-productions-inc/42250266.aspx

RISING STAR PRODUCTIONS TEN, INC.
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/rising-star-productions-ten-inc/44669705.aspx

FREYERMUTH & ASSOCIATES INC.
http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/freyermuth-associates-inc/43544005.aspx

I wonder if any of these corporations have any business dealings with Cloud Imperium Games? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Kristoffer
12 days 2 hours ago

I’ve been waiting for this post for a while and have to say… “that was it?” :(

I’m a backer since KS well over $1000 into this project (but that’s also counting physical merchandise that they actually have delivered). I’m also at the point where I’m thinking this game won’t get done simply because they’ll run out of cash before they can finish it at this rate. If the social module showed anything it’s how far away they are from a playable multiplayer game. We’ll see about SQ42 later.

And I’ve read your posts and agree with some of the stuff you say, but not everything. And that’s why I’ve been waiting for a “smoking gun” or something like it to prove that yes, things aren’t kosher over there. And I’m still waiting! All I’m getting from this blog is “this will blow up”, “they are doomed”, “we have proof”, “trust me” and “my anonymous source says”. Which is ironically close to how Baghdad Bob was back in the day. I’ve yet to see a single shred of evidence of anything actually illegal. There may be alot of shady things but no actual proof.
Refunding you and throwing you out – not classy but not illegal.
Changing TOS constantly – their game, their TOS, accept it or don’t.
Making your wife (which still isn’t an established fact afaik) the co-creator of the game – if it got him laid, so be it, good for him, still not illegal.
Purchasing a car with corporate money – illegal if true, but from where I’m sitting we only have you to trust on that one.

So, all we have is “he said, they said”. And you constantly insunuating things like “the feds are on it, trust me” and the next day seeing a “we’re not on it.. as far as we can officially acknowledge” by them doesn’t really help the credibility. Good for you you don’t care about that :)

Anyway, I’m sitting here with the popcorn kinda hoping the truth will come out but also hoping the full game will as well one day.

PS: Maybe rephrase “Nothing strikes fear into mortal men than a call or visit from the IRS or the FBI.” because that may be true for a mortal american, not for me.

Kylar
11 days 12 hours ago

Just a quick thing about the social module, what we are playing now is 6 months old. They released it because the 6 month old branch was stable and because star marine ran into some snags.

Vestinious
12 days 2 hours ago

You say that Gemini 42 is a wholly owned subsidiary of RS.
Can you prove this as this to me is a very important part of the blog.

Kxmode
12 days 2 hours ago

Gemini 42 Entertainment
http://www.imdb.com/company/co0467761/

Production Company – filmography
– “The Wonderful World of Star Citizen” (2015) … Production Company
– “Around the Verse” (2014) … Production Company (presents)
– “The Next Great Starship” (2014) … Production Company

Derek do you have an IMDBPro account so you can tell us who the (2) Staff members are as well as Affiliations?
https://pro-labs.imdb.com/company/co0467761?rf=cons_co_more&ref_=cons_co_more

Thanks.

Toochan
12 days 3 hours ago

What i see at the moment is one kid trying to destroy another kids sand castle, odd enough both kids are professionals over 40? Don’t get me wrong before you delete my comment. I was moderating forums for a long time and within i try to understand both sides before i step into, “trying” to solve problems on both sides. There i saw daily “I am right, you are wrong…no I am right and you are wrong..loop..flags..probation’s..flying scissors..drama queens”.

As you stated here: “As the comments are moderated, if you’re going to waste your time trying to flame me, all you’re doing is just that: wasting your time. Because your comment will be deleted from right there in the moderation queue, never to see the light of day in this blog. ”

Well..as a moderator you learn to make use of forum rules to keep the discussion open..and try to intervene if it gets dirty, using these. Here, you draw a line – my side..and the other side are all assholes that are not on my side. Warmest greetings from North Korea? I don’t think so, but i ask myself why. I may got an idea how you created the people from the other side:

You forgot one thing while writing all the blog posts: That game you are “rave, rant and vent” about just not created stupid paying White Knights. Some fans started to get friends, good friends – no matter the money. You call people White Knights because they want to keep the thing that was partly responsible for their friendship, not the game itself at all afterwards – without SC, they probably never met each other. I don’t know if its some peoples way of life thingy to skip this part but for me in the end..this White Knights kinda helped me through a hard time of my life, got me back on my feet. Why should they not be angry if they’re sitting in a dreambubblesandcastle and some stranger is showing by trying to destroy it “for the better”. I would love to know the “real deal”, what its all about. Do i have to feel ashamed now getting new friends? I feel its my responsibility that you loose time on your game, instead writing these blogs.

Let me quote a nice guy who once wrote this: “Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead…but don’t be surprised if we don’t uphold them.”

Eric
12 days 3 hours ago

So, who gets credit for that link to the Dan Roger’s Article?

I remember linking it to you at some point. Did your people discover it before or After I linked it to you?

Just curious :)

Roger Thomas
12 days 3 hours ago

DropBox links no worky :(

Kansokusha
12 days 4 hours ago

Thank you and good luck Mr Smart. I never backed Star Citizen, but the outcome to this mess is hugely important to me. I’ve been enjoying the revitalisation of companies like inXile and Obsidian thanks to crowdfunding and I don’t want it to end too soon.

Kxmode
12 days 2 hours ago

Hi Kansokusha.

I’m no longer a Backer of Star Citizen (I was among the fortunate few to receive a full refund), however I am very interested in CIG. Whatever happens to them and Star Citizen will have a shockwave effect on other crowdfund projects I’m backing as well as the whole crowdfunding / early access funding model. I’m hoping for a positive outcome. Unfortunately to get to that outcome some sort of legal action is required to force CIG to share financial information that they promised to share in an early version of their TOS. Basically they have a fiduciary obligation to full disclosure of how they’ve spend Backer money and what remains.

EZMan
5 days 23 hours ago

This is for both Kxmode and DSmart. Read that promise again in the ToS, the terms of that promise haven’t been reached yet. You are crying wolf before the time is up so that if/when they are due to share this information you will say it’s all because of you!

EZ
6 days 6 minutes ago

Read that promise again in the ToS, the terms of that promise haven’t been reached yet. You are crying wolf before the time is up so that if/when they are due to share this information you will say it’s all because of you!

Kristoffer
12 days 5 hours ago

Chris = Baghdad Bob? Really? I can understand why you need to wait for legal on that one… :)

Cash_Roberts
12 days 4 hours ago

Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf is more of Ben and Sandi, the face of CIG

UndertakerPal
12 days 3 hours ago

Thanks for clarifying Derek.

Scyllus
12 days 9 hours ago

Waiting for legal to clear this one?

george
8 days 17 hours ago

dsmart:

“Back when I gave Chris money, I didn’t – for one minute – take into account the fact that he was going to revert to his old ways and screw up again. I was willing to give him a chance. ”

May I ask what Chris did back in Wing commander days that caused issues? I thought WC was a success

Dan
6 days 11 hours ago

I suggest you look into a little company called Digital Anvil.

 
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