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[NoStupidQuestions]Redditor breaks down why Michael Jackson did not commit pedophilia crimes. (np.reddit.com)

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[–]WhatIsTheMaximumLeng 100ポイント101ポイント  (101子コメント)

And that's why I would never just volunteer to work with kids. Way too dangerous for a man to do.

[–]Lager17 40ポイント41ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm a male preschool teacher. It isn't as horrifying as Reddit would have you believe.

[–]Pluckerpluck 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

It only takes one accusation. One measly accusation. Most parents are nice. Most wouldn't dream of it, but it only takes one. Specifically, it only takes one at a school. They have to immediately suspend you etc and that can make your career pretty difficult, especially when the other parents get wind of it.

But it's the same as rape accusations which can ruin your life even if you're completely innocent. The majority of the world doesn't go around accusing random people of rape, but it only takes one. Just like most people agree to take the risk involving sex (which carries a bunch of other risks along with it) many take the "risk" and work with children as an adult male.

You don't want to be ruled by the risk, but you need to understand that it is there. As /u/Cerinthus said:

Men need to be conscious of that perception, not governed by it. The role you play also significantly affects the perception. Working at a pediatric hospital raises less eyebrows than little league coach or scout leader, for example.

[–]WhatIsTheMaximumLeng 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of course not, its all a matter of numbers. Maybe your risk is 2% or 5% or whatever to be falsely accused and having your economic and social life destroyed for good. For me, I decided that its not worth the risk. There are other jobs that are fun as well.

[–]Yserbius 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not horrifying, but there is always a very slight possibility that your life can be ruined.

A friend of my dad was an elementary school principal for close to 30 years. One night last year, cops show up and arrest him. A former (male) student is accusing him of rape. That was literally all there was. One 15 year old kid claimed something happened 7 years ago. The guy had a sterling record, the courts went all out to try to find anyone willing to testify against him. They found a blog post accusing him of slapping kids when they would misbehave. The blogger stood by his accusations, but actually defended him saying that he was not a molester. The accusation didn't even make sense, as the office where it allegedly happened had several ground floor windows and shared a small non-soundproof wall with the main (very busy) office. Also, the kids mother was pushing for a monetary settlement and had the case thrown out of two different courts due to lack of evidence.

He was given the options of a big public court battle or to take a plea and retire. The court battle was a lose-lose situation, so he was essentially forced to take the plea deal.

Personally, I like to take my dads advice. Never put yourself in a situation where you're alone with a child unless there are open doors and windows into the room.

[–]Ceedub260 32ポイント33ポイント  (5子コメント)

Why? I am a man and work with kids every day. Ranging from infants all the way up to teenagers. Boys, girls, doesn't matter. You keep a professional boundary. Get a mature professional relationship with the parents.

[–]Cerinthus 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Get one allegation and the very fact that you're a man who works with kids may well be treated as a mitigating factor.

[–]Ceedub260 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

So by your logic, no men should work in a children's hospital, at all? As a male pediatric nurse, I don't like that.

[–]Cerinthus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is absolutely not my point. Precisely the opposite.

I think the all too common assumption that men who work with kids are significantly more likely to be predators is as abhorrent as it is preposterous. It's the product of twenty years or so of relentless fear mongering.

Men need to be conscious of that perception, not governed by it. The role you play also significantly affects the perception. Working at a pediatric hospital raises less eyebrows than little league coach or scout leader, for example.

[–]KennyFulgencio 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah but I hate professional boundaries

[–]Cockwombles -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly as you say. The guy had no boundaries, so why assume they stopped at molestation?

When I was a kid I slept with my friends and we did ocasionaly mess around, none of us had even been tampered with or mentaly abused and groomed from birth. I really don't buy that he was such a lovely guy that never crossed his mind.

[–]Zagden 255ポイント256ポイント  (49子コメント)

Sleeping in the same bed as a child that isn't yours, and especially without consent of the parents, is extremely inappropriate no matter how you slice it.

MJ may not have been a predator but let's not be too hasty here.

[–]phatrice 97ポイント98ポイント  (3子コメント)

Lots of kids are afraid of sleeping by themselves and want to sleep with an adult regardless of whether they are actual parents.

Source: slept with uncles and grandparents as a kid and has two young kids of my own.

[–]Deam_Ex_Machina 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can confirm.. I worked as a camp counsellor this summer and one week I woke up at 3am to find this kid (who had been very homesick) sleeping next to me in my bed. (i told him he had to go back to his own bed)

[–]Skylarella -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think sleeping in the same bed as your uncle or grandfather is quite the same deal as sleeping in the bed with a "friend" of the family. Jackson shouldn't have slept in the bed, plain and simple.

[–]masksnjunk 126ポイント127ポイント  (5子コメント)

So... he may not be a predator, but let's brand him one just to be safe?

I honestly think that he had a terrible sad and messed up childhood that damaged him mentally so he never grew up. Source: I just read Untouchable and it is heartbreaking how much emotional trauma that man went through, mainly at the hands of his family. That plus the rumors that he was chemically castrated by his father during puberty, using a dangerous acme drug makes him having sex with children very unlikely.

[–]su5 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

I dont think that is what they are saying.

They are saying it is not a good idea as a volunteer with kids to sleep in the same bed as them without consent of their parents.

[–]Nebjamink 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're perfectly right, however I really don't think MJ seen that as "wrong" in any way at all. The guy had such a fucked up childhood that his mind just pretty much stayed that of a child's his whole life. He probably just had no idea that it was seen as something an adult wouldn't do.

[–]su5 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesnt change the statement made, that sleeping with kids in your bed without parental consent is a no no. I am not mad at MJ, but I also dont think what he did was appropriate.

[–]Zoorin 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

People aren't saying brand him as a predator. Just saying that he probably shouldn't have slept with strange children in his bed without their parents consent.

[–]Jah_Ith_Ber 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whether he was castrated or not is a definitely a rumor, and probably not true. But a more believable one is that he and his brothers shared a room whenever they were on the road and his brothers would fuck groupies and tell him to turn and face the wall and stay quiet about it.

[–]InTheTreeWithTheAnon 136ポイント137ポイント  (33子コメント)

Not really. It's only innapropiate because of the social stigma. If a woman let a young girl or boy sleep in their bed nobody would bat an eye.

[–]lrpatt 161ポイント162ポイント  (23子コメント)

I might be weird, but I would definitely bat an eye if my son/daughter slept in the same bed as an adult without my permission, regardless of gender. Obviously there are some exceptions-- I wouldn't care if it was their grandparent or something along those lines.

[–]schectersix 98ポイント99ポイント  (9子コメント)

I wouldn't care if it was their grandparent or something along those lines.

FYI don't for a second think that just because it's a family member you're safe.

[–]lrpatt 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

Fair point. I am specifically referencing my parents who have never had any issues with that and I trust them completely. But I definitely agree that 'family' should not be the only qualifier and in many cases, not even a qualifier.

[–]Succubista 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

One of my closest childhood friends was molested by her grandfather. He didn't molest her mother or her aunts. Eventually when she told her mom she didn't believe her. He got to continue to live with them and molest her.

Eventually he moved in with another one of his daughters and molested another two of his grandchildren. He's dead now, and his three victims don't get the validation they deserve from their family. And this was a completely normal seeming family from the outside. No craziness, no drugs or alcohol.

Of course, I'm not saying that everyone's parents are molesters. It's a little warning about trusting people you've never had any issues with. Don't trust your parents over your child.

[–]Razzahx 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Most molestation cases are within the family. Its easier to get away with it.

[–]lrpatt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. And I'm not refuting that.

[–]tanstaafl90 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not easier to get away with, just a better opportunity. Kid you know and have a reason to spend time with versus some non related kid?

[–]Cerinthus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, it isn't a fair point, it's fear mongering. Is it possible your family members are predators? Unfortunately yes, it is. It's also extremely unlikely. The odds are low enough to not be worth taking seriously without any mitigating factor. Most people aren't predators. Go ahead and trust your family. Save your energy for managing real risks instead of imagining potential dangers.

[–]Cerinthus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is fear mongering. In the vast, vast, vast majority of instances it's perfectly safe. Can we all just run on the basic assumption that most people aren't pedophiles? That most of our families aren't going to prey on our children?

As a father of three young kids I learned something interesting this year. Less kids come to a birthday party if dad is hosting it instead of mom. This type of fear mongering is, I suspect, the reason for that.

Some kids will be abused, and that's tragic, but you don't need to run on the assumption everyone is a potential predator. Most people aren't.

[–]daybreakx 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

True. Always be paranoid, never trust anyone. Everyone wants to rape your kid, cause she's so hot.

[–]schectersix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah man I'm not trying to perpetuate paranoia, I resonate with bill burr's bit about kids how you used to be able to pat them on the head and say "how are ya rusty" and now it's like "my hands are in the air and I'm not aroused!" (I'm paraphrasing)

What I meant was if anyone's going to molest you it's actually more often a family member or close friend because they have access and plausible deniability.

[–]Ergheis 24ポイント25ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's very strange to us now in 2015, yes. But at the same time this is only in this culture. Other places, babies get passed around, literally. Meanwhile I could understand if you became extremely uncomfortable with a stranger holding your baby.

[–]FreaXoMatic 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

Afters years my parents told me why we were never allowed to stay at my step grandfather alone.

I have never noticed that my parents tried to distance ourselves from them but the reveled later to me that he was a control freak and molested my ,mother ,aunt ,cousin all under the age of 16.

He is now alone my grandma died of lung cancer. Deserved in my oppinion she let it all happen with turning a blind eye and even lying after everything blew up.

Family is not an excuse, friends or people who you know and trust deeply. Family can be friends, Family can be enemies.

[–]full_of_stars 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm assuming you left out a few commas, I pray you did, otherwise we have a Chinatown situation.

[–]FreaXoMatic -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

yeah really funny.

I'm non native english speaker and wrote from mobile.

[–]full_of_stars 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought were maybe saying that that your mother may have somehow also been your aunt and/or cousin because you were a child of incest. Wasn't really trying to be funny.

[–]dukck 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

How does something inappropriate become that just by your permission? I am inclined to think that no such permission would be granted, right?

[–]lrpatt 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, you're right. I just added "without my permission" as a qualifier, because there exist a few exceptions which I cleared up in the sentence right after.

[–]TheBlackSpank 26ポイント27ポイント  (4子コメント)

I disagree. I think it's very weird for an adult woman to sleep in the same bed of any kid that's not theirs. Imagine if you were a kid and you shared a bed with a female babysitter. Would your parents not freak out? I know mine would have.

[–]magikarpcandosplash 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

There must be a cultural thing here, because in my country, it's not strange for babysitters to sleep with the children. My siblings and I all slept with our babysitters too until we got a bit older.

[–]Sebaceous_Sebacious 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here in the US. My parents wouldn't have left me with someone they didn't trust.

[–]b_digital 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

our nanny sleeps with our son all the time. though it's usually on the couch, because he often won't nap at all if he isn't laying on somebody.

We've gone full retard as a society with the notion that any touching between people beyond a handshake is automatically sexual in nature.

[–]nevershagagreek 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My son (5) had a sleepover with 2 of his friends the other night, and I pulled out the queen-sized couch-bed in the living room so they could all watch Avengers and eat popcorn before falling asleep. I hopped up there with them, intending to go join my husband in bed once they all fell asleep, but then I fell asleep too. Thankfully the other boys' mothers are close friends of mine, but this thread makes me wonder how many other people would have found the situation really creepy.

[–]xtfftc 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

See, you skipped the whole "child that isn't yours, and especially without consent of the parents" bit.

If a woman let a young girl or boy that wasn't theirs sleep in their bed nobody without the parent's consent people would definitely bat an eye or two.

[–]BenjamintheFox 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uhhhh.... I think eyes would be batted.

[–]D_DM7_D7_G_Gm_D_E_A 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't make this a men's rights thing. It'd be weird if it was a woman too.

[–]Whales96 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It amazes me that people would jump through all these hoops to defend a famous person.

[–]ignore_my_typo 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

And let's admit it. Sleeping in the bed of your or my house, yes. But Jackson had many people working for him in the house and many children around all the time. It was like one big party. Of course it isn't impossible for molestation to occur based on what I said. But the situation is different.

[–]Fgame 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been accused of being a pedophile while with my kids at the park. May be the full beard.

[–]MaximilianKohler 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I disagree. That's a hugely subjective opinion you're posing.

[–]torndownunit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. I was starting to think I was crazy reading so many posts about him 'only' sleeping with the kids.

[–]nancylikestoreddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've slept with multiple friends in the same bed...there was never any funny business. We were just sleeping.

I think because MJ was an eccentric anything he did was put under a microscope. In his head it may have been ok...but you're right, especially with having been previously been accused of molestation charges, I don't get why he would even help kids out after that.

We'll never know for sure, dude.

[–]Observerwwtdd 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Plus...kids are as annoying as hell.

Source: Have seen kids.

[–]WhatIsTheMaximumLeng 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really, I like kids. They have imagination and are more interesting to talk than most lame adults.

[–]alcalde 56ポイント57ポイント  (24子コメント)

Working with kids generally doesn't involve sleeping in the same bed with them.

[–]VerySpecialK 36ポイント37ポイント  (4子コメント)

That doesn't mean you want to molest them.

[–]BWalker66 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

Which is the difference. Not many people say sleeping with the kids isn't weird at all, and if it is weird then so what? Is it against the law? Nope it's not.

The best of post even says that sleeping in the same bed might be weird, so i don't see why people are still bringing it up in this thread as if they've discovered something that nobody has thought of..

[–]KingDoink 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

MJ was just a child. He probably stayed up late watching power rangers or spiderman, until they just fell asleep.

[–]aboardthegravyboat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He wasn't asexual, though. He may have had the sexuality of a 10 year old, but he still had sexual attaction. He was also mentally a 10 year old. We're all agreeing that in his mind, being in bed with 10 year olds was innocent because that's basically what he was. From there, it's not a stretch to think he wouldn't see anything wrong with touching those 10 year olds he already sees as peers.

[–]Skylarella 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sleeping in the same bed with another person's child that has no relation to you is NOT appropriate. I don't think any person on here is implying that Michael or anyone else is molesting anybody but I would never let my child sleep in the same bed with one of my friends, and unfortunately yes, especially if they were male. Males commit way more sexual crimes against children and that's something that a responsible parent would think about before putting their kids in a one-on-one situation with an adult.

I hate the stigma surrounding men with children but it's better to be safe than sorry, and it's only wise that a person wouldn't put themselves in a situation where it looks bad for them. Does it really sound okay when you're in court accused of doing something inappropriate with a friend's child and all you can say is, "Well all I did was just sleep in the same bed as them..."

I don't get this idea that just because Michael Jackson was allegedly framed that he's suddenly so innocent that it was "okay" for him to sleep in a bed with a child that was not his own. I'm not saying he molested him, but I am saying it is simply inappropriate regardless of all the other details.

[–]Beyond-The-Blackhole 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

I think its more along the lines of everyone being sensitive when it comes to adults, especially men, interacting with kids, that the idea of anything done between a kid and an adult must be perverse regardless of what it is.

[–]wildeep_MacSound 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

That feeds into the "Only men abuse" mentality - when studies have shown that women are just as likely to abuse children.

[–]wouldyestap 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Do you have a source for that? Never heard it before and I'm writing an essay that touches on abuse of children. Are you referring to sexual abuse or all types of abuse?

[–]wildeep_MacSound 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

All types - unless someone is willing to build a hierarchy of what type of abuse trumps another type.

I'll dig up some links once I'm not on my phone

[–]wildeep_MacSound 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Here you go - a couple while I'm at lunch:

http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/cb/resource/child-maltreatment-2006

http://www.safehorizon.org/page/child-abuse-facts-56.html

[–]GreenMansions 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

These numbers are for abuse or NEGLECT. More women will be arrested for neglect than men because there are more women living with and caring for their children. These stats combine real child predators with moms who leave their kids home alone to go to work. Naturally that skews the numbers towards women. If these numbers were for abuse alone they'd be very different.

[–]tanstaafl90 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a photographer by trade, shooting a very private event recently. Private to the point it was impossible to be there without event planners knowing you. Yet, one mother was quite vocal that I not take photos of her kid. She literally yelled at me in front of the other mothers and made it clear she thought I was up to no good. Automatic reaction on her part, said without thinking. This is acceptable today to generalize about men without reproach or sounding like some men's rights wonk. She also was happy to pose for the group photo holding her kid.

[–]Cerinthus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep. I mentioned in another post that less kids come to a birthday party if I'm hosting it than if my wife is. I suspect this is why.

[–]lukianp 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

ople say sleeping with the kids isn't weird at all, and if it is weird then so what? Is it against the law? Nope it's not. The best of post even says that sleeping in the same bed might be weird, so i don't see why people are still bringing it up in this thread as if they've discovered something that nobody has thought of..

in many cultures kids sleep in the same bed as their parents or grandparents to a late age in development.. nobody gets molested, there are bad apples in alot of bunches but if your a proper kiddly fiddler, as it has become clear above you have a type. If you are ginger and albino, I am sure your potential suitor will want you for those features (and the fact that you can be controlled)

[–]divefor 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had the same thought after watching Jagten (brilliant film by the way). What's worse in MJ's case is that no kid apparently ever accused him of anything, yet people completely freaked out about the situation.

[–]thekidfromthegutter 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's fucking unfair that society automatically assume that we us a men are some sort of freaks or molesters when they see us near children. Have you ever realized that 99/% of kindergarten and primary teachers are females? Lately I've seen more female pedophiles than men, which proves that a pedophiles and predators can be men and women, not just men.

[–]WhatIsTheMaximumLeng 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

that society automatically assume that we

That's was racism, sexism, ageism, etc is all about. To judge an individual by the random group they belong to.

Mix that with the fear many people have towards sexuality, and you get a crazy witch hunt.

[–]DeadlyDillweed 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My uncle used to work in daycares, he had to quit a couple years ago just because, as he put it, "there is way too much risk being a man in a daycare"

[–]dagnart -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's really not so bad. There are easy, common-sense precautions that you can take, and everyone in those fields, male and female, knows to do them. It's for your safety and the safety of the children, because predators are drawn to those roles and avoiding situations where abuse is possible protects everyone. Don't be alone with children behind a closed door. Don't touch a child that isn't yours without another adult in the room observing.

[–]captaincannibal -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was the most painfully dramatic thing I've read all day.

[–]jrob323 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Especially if you're a child molester.