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DiscussionMindless Monday, 28 September 2015 (self.badhistory)

AutoModerator[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

Happy (or sad) Monday guys!

Mindless Monday is generally for those instances of bad history that do not deserve their own post, and posting them here does not require an explanation for the bad history. This also includes anything that falls under this month's moratorium. That being said, this thread is free-for-all, and you can discuss politics, your life events, whatever here. Just remember to np link all links to Reddit and don't violate R4, or we human mods will feed you to the AutoModerator.

So, with that said, how was your weekend, everyone?

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[–]nihil_novi_sub_soleW. T. Sherman burned the Library of Alexandria 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I finally got to go to liturgy for the first time in months, after having worked most weekends for the last couple years. I also actually knew the greeting that was being used for what may be the first time, so that was nice.

I'm considering going back to school for sonography, radiography, or some other 2-year diagnostic program, since I don't really seem to be going anywhere professionally. I'd been opposed to taking on any student loans, since I got my bachelor's without any debt, but at this point I'd probably triple my income by getting over that, so I'm exploring my options.

I wish there were more movies about the first few centuries of Christian history, so that I could have more things to be angry about. Hating Agora is old hat by now, so why can't someone make a movie where Constantine runs around eating babies and picking state religions arbitrarily?

[–]pittfan46 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey yall,

Watsup?

I became map mod of /r/historicalworldpowers

The giant blue blob of Lebanon is gone, so the regions with Egypt, anatolia, Persia and the Levant are all open. Please join /r/historicalworldpowers.

Steelers won. But at what cost? Oh well. At least the Ravens lost.

How's everyone else doing?

[–]TiakoTevinter apologist, shill for Big Lyrium 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The "myth of the noble savage" is something that has been troubling me for a bit (I had this conversation on /r/AskAnthropology). There are very elegant and powerful arguments for the problems with the noble savage myth, but these are often attacking a concept that is very different from what most people thin of as the noble savage myth. Academics seem to mostly attack it as a category, by pointing out that all societies are in flux, there are no pristine cultures, etc. But in the popular discourse it is much more about the admirability of the character and the society of the people under discussion.

Or to put it in other words, academics take issue with the "savage" side of the phrase, while in the popular discourse the issue revolves around "noble". The problem is that whiggish types like Pinker exploit these differences, and accuse those who say that, you know, these very real societies are not actually nasty, brutish and short of repeating the "noble savage myth".

[–]SevenLight 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For some reason, all my lecturers this semester have decided to try and drive me insane by parroting old bad history snippets like "history is written by the winners" or "everyone died age 35 in the olden times" or "there was no progress during the dark ages". It grates on my soul. I dunno whether to correct them or not.

Not only that, but we're doing WWII. I don't enjoy studying the world wars, but I really need to pass (obviously). Life is hard.

[–]georgeguy007High Chartist Chancellor (was elected tho, like Hitler) 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

My Civil War history class is still amazing and one of my favorite classes. Just finished reading "Becoming Confederates", which focused on 3 Conf. Generals (Robert E Lee and Early being the two notable ones).

The thing that stuck out to me was General Early's philosophy. Here is a Virginian State Senator (I think) who voted NO to secession in all votes, and voted NO to joining the confederacy. But after the war was a staunch Lost Causer and revisionist.

He had this personal rule that he learned from Andrew Jackson, where if your government (in this case his state) elects to do something, even if it was against your wishes, that is democracy at work and you should do everything you can to support the government (and therefor the people's position). Out of this context, its a pretty unique way to think about politics. It calls for putting aside your beliefs and casting your lot with your past enemies to make sure everything they are pushing for works out for the best for everyone.

This ideology led him to become a fierce Confederate supporter when the ballots were casted. He sang praises about the social institution of the south and condemned the north, even after the war. Which I guess makes him a hypocrite in his later life.

The biggest Irony of all this is, he used this mentality to become the perfect example of a confederate general. Fierce, Loyal to the Cause, and holding Aggression to those damn Yankees. BUT, if the whole south government had followed this ideology from start at Abraham's inauguration, they would have never succeeded, and instead have submitted to democracy.

[–]georgeguy007High Chartist Chancellor (was elected tho, like Hitler) 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Continuing my Civil war learnings:

I learned Robert E Lee, you know the confederate George Washington, was actually pretty anti-Lost Cause. Or at least not favorable about it. While other ex-confederate generals were busy 'reconstructing' their goals and reasons for the war, and even more so about their loss, this spiritual embodiment of the south kept quiet. He disliked all the monuments to the cause that were being erected, and stressed the importance of building unity. However he mostly just kept quiet. I would think Robert would have very mixed feelings about the current confederate support we see today.

I really wish to know about why he was so different than everyone else though, and have 2 hypothesis, but neither of them are well researched/back up.

  • He was sick of war. Easy enough. It was the bloodiest thing anyone has seen in any generation. Many couldn't believe the high numbers of casualties. Maybe Lee just didn't want constant reminders of the americans he sent to die and ordered to be killed. Could explain his reclusiveness, but he was a General, so its not like he was foreign to death.

  • Rule of war. This ties into being a general. Lee lost, and was the man who surrendered his entire rebel country to the enemy. He was lucky to not be hanged for treason. Maybe submission and moving on was the best course of action for him to maintain his life, and his future. Surrendering might have broke his personal image (and others real image) of himself as George Washington, and he felt humiliated. Any words of confederate encouragement he said now might have made him feel like a hypocrite. To him the Confederacy and the dream of the Confederacy was dead when he humbly surrendered.

It could be both, or neither of these, but I just wanted to spit ball using what I have read to explain his anti-Lost Cause reasoning and general apathy.

[–]WearyTunesAll part of the Air Nomad conspiracy. 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So much religion dense history this semester.

I'm starting to get mentally exhausted on the subject.

[–]hussard_de_la_mort"sandwich in my right, .45 in my other hand" 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I got to ride on a Sherman this weekend. It managed not to spontaneously combust when faced with ZE GLORIOUS OPAL BLITZ MADE MIT ZE FINEST INDESTRUCTIBLE KRUPPSTAHL, which was good for my long standing campaign against being barbecued alive. I also managed to survive dealing with our unit's God Botherer in Chief without having his wife there to distract him.

[–]RoNPlayerJames Truslow Adams was a Communist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only one week till i have holidays! And i still have to write two exams. Wish me luck fellow alcoholics historians.

[–]djp06475It's wrong when YOUR country does it. 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Grad school apps went in the mail today. I feel like a big boy 大男の子 now.

[–]ManicMarineSemper Hindustan Super Omnes 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I watched a Hindi movie the other day, which is apparently very famous but I hadn't heard of it, Kal Ho Naa Ho (Eng: There May Or May Not Be A Tomorrow). The movie was quite good (and had some good dance scenes in it which is unlike the previous Indian movie I saw), but it was a romcom that lasted over 3 hours. I don't see why ANY romcom needs to last that long; there were unnecessarily many plot points IMO.

But what struck me was the standard "cool guy coaches nerdy guy to get the girl" section: it was the most redpill thing I'd ever seen. Those plots are pretty sexist just on the face of it, because anytime a woman needs to be taught what she really feels it robs her of her autonomy, but this one was even worse than normal. Basically the advice the cool guy gave was to neg the woman: ignore her, be seen with other women, use backhanded compliments etc. Of course it worked like a charm and they got married.

Then the cool guy died of heart failure or something, I wasn't really paying attention by the end of the movie because we were well into cocktail night by that point. But overall it was a pretty good film.

[–]Quouarthe Weather History Slayer 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I watch a lot of Indian movies, and while I haven't seen this one, it doesn't sound atypical. Romances in big Indian movies are pretty bog-standard with the gender roles, and 3 hours is not too terribly long. Did you like it beyond that?

[–]ManicMarineSemper Hindustan Super Omnes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah it was quite good, though very predictable, and I maintain that romcoms simply do not need to be 200 minutes long; it hurts the story.

Have you watched The Lunchbox? Now there's a really good Indian film.

[–]Quouarthe Weather History Slayer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I did, and I loved it! You'd probably like Pizza as well. It flits between between a romcom and being a horror film, and does both fairly well.

[–]WorldOneWonAlexander the Great Didn't Real 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Saw Fury last night. I enjoyed it, even if it wasn't super historical (to my knowledge, I know nothing about tanks). I also saw Edge of Tomorrow and am wondering why I waited so long to see that. It was amazing!

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think most people's problem with fury wasn't so much historical so much as sometimes the bad guys did nonsensical things because the drama and tension of the movie demanded it. One of my friends went off about how they have a million AT weapons at the end but only 3 are ever used, or how the tiger in the middle section sits like a fat asshole doing nothing while our heroes run around and shoot them in the butt

-edit- I forgot to mention I really like fury, its not like its the only movie to have bad guys behave stupidly

[–]hussard_de_la_mort"sandwich in my right, .45 in my other hand" 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The crew weren't geniuses either. Why would you wait until you're buttoned up and surrounded to climb out to get the ammo from the external .30 cal mounts?

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i mean they also seem to forget that they have WAY MORE AMMUNITION for the main gun than what they fired off as well, so thats just in character as far as I'm concerned

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

There should be like a /r/badInternationalRelations or something because all these posts about how shitty the UN is because of the saudi arabia thing are ignorant at best and damaging to the international community at worst.

[–]TiakoTevinter apologist, shill for Big Lyrium 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Throw it in /r/badsocialscience. We're a big tent kind of place, and have a lot of IR stuff.

[–]King_Posner 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'd be interested, though my expertise is mostly on the international law side with history only as it mixes.

[–]Quouarthe Weather History Slayer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me too. I like international relations rather a lot, history be damned.

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

like theoretical international law and its development or the history of IL as it's been applied practically?

[–]King_Posner 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

so my law degree focused (but was not specialized) in constitutional and international law. so history as it relates to the constitutun is a major topic, as is history relating to the development and implimentation over time of LOAC, jus Bella, jus cogens, international norms, piracy and terrorism, Geneva and humanitarian law, treaties and the like, etc.

my short papers were on domestic international law application in hisotry (native rights versus law of the sword, international trade tariffs, international money trafficking), and my long paper was the history of genocide ethics and legal status from pre history to Greeks to the bible to Middle Ages to nazis and ended examining Rwanda (including my take on the difference between the two tribunal systems and an argument for which works best when).

edit undergrad was political science (american political system focused), plus english and philosophy. so that may be a factor too, but doesn't seem except the overlap with historical philosophies.

does that answer the question, or did I miss the mark?

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh thats really cool! I'm taking a class on IL next semester and I'm intimidated by the amount of reading hat will probably go into it haha

[–]King_Posner 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

feel free to message me anytime you want, if I don't know it I may be able to direct you or otherwise will let you know that outright, but if I do I'll give what help I can. Remember that ethics are a contextual historical concept, that evolve, and that even modern IL ethics are mostly suggestions or ideals - but that's standard historical analysis.

if you start a sub, Im interested in helping and contributing.

[–]djp06475It's wrong when YOUR country does it. 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd subscribe to that. Although I think that the name may be too long. Maybe /r/badIR?

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, although idk how much real talent it would attract

[–]_sekhmet_Lady of Slaughter and She Who Reviews Chairs 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh my today has been s huge relief, I just found out I will get paid on October 9th regardless of whether or not the government is shut down. You have no idea how much of weight that is off my back.

In other news, I have to miss my make up test today because my boss absolutely will not let me take off work for anything other than an emergency because of the shut down. There's a lot of things we have to do before October 1st to make sure everything runs smoothly once work goes back into session. I've called sand emailed my professor several times and she's not answered me once, so thats comforting.

And, to end on a positive note, here's a picture of my cat trying to be sneaky: http://imgur.com/xN901Dc

[–]phasv2 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's one stealthy feline. Good luck on that professor calling you back.

[–]_sekhmet_Lady of Slaughter and She Who Reviews Chairs 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Right? He's practically Solid Snake with that cardboard box.

And thanks.

[–]phasv2 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I miss having a cat, but my wife is extremely allergic. My brother used to have a little orange cat named Peter that would hide behind the arm of the couch on the way from my room to the bathroom, and hook into my pants with his retractable paw daggers when I was walking by. That way he'd get a free ride down the hall, and appease those hunting instincts.

[–]_sekhmet_Lady of Slaughter and She Who Reviews Chairs 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Aw, I'm sorry your wife is allergic. Is she allergic to the dander, or to the scratching/salvia? If it's just the dander you can still get one of those bald sphinx cats. My friend is allergic to cat dander and she has one;they are actually rather sweet and playful, and even pretty cute once you get past the fact that they look like naked grandmas. Her sister is also allergic and she has a Javanese cat, which is apparently hypoallergenic as well, if you don't like naked goblin kitties.

My cat tries to do that, but he's not terribly good at stopping, jumping or pouncing, so he mostly just sort of flails himself at you as your going down the hall. It's pretty adorable.

[–]phasv2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not sure, exactly, when they did her scratch test she tested allergic to most of the stuff they test for, except dogs, and, like, one kind of grass. We have two dogs and a rabbit right now, so we're unlikely to try any kind cat any time soon. I just go down to the pet store and play with them from time to time. It scratches the itch, mostly.

[–]arminius_sawMOD ABOOBS[M] 15ポイント16ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm quitting /r/badhistory.

Well, technically, I'm quitting the mod team, but since that was pretty much my only link back to the sub, in practice I'm quitting the whole place.

This is partly due to the bullying of Quouar, which I find at best pathetic, but really it's something that I've been considering for a while. I stopped posting a while back because I lost interest in /r/badhistory, and as of now I've run out of reasons to get re-engage with the community.

I'll mostly be on /r/hockey, but also a little bit on /r/SubredditDrama and I might even go back to lurking on /r/AskHistorians like I've always been meaning to. And you guys know you can always ping me if you need anything.

It was fun while it lasted. Arminius out.

EDIT: Just to be clear, this is more than just the Quouar thing, and I don't want to get bogged down in that. In general I've been getting more and more disconnected from the BH community and the Quouar bullshit is just a symptom of certain users pushing the tone of the sub in directions I'm uncomfortable with. Those of you I know well are still good people and I hope to keep touching base with you, but you won't see me here on /r/badhistory any more.

[–]Quouarthe Weather History Slayer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm still secretly hoping you change your mind, but I recognise that's unlikely. I'm sorry to see you go, and you're always welcome back.

[–]georgeguy007High Chartist Chancellor (was elected tho, like Hitler) 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

See you around! Thanks for being here in the beginning!

[–]WearyTunesAll part of the Air Nomad conspiracy. 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

:'(

It was always fun talking to you on IRC.

[–]DirishNicias gambled with Sicilians when Death was on the line. 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry to see you go here, I always enjoyed your posts and to read about your happenings in the Monday and Thursday posts.

[–]TempleOwl17 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

At first I thought you were saying Quouar was bullying you and I couldn't believe it. Then I actually reread it and see you meant people bully her and I still can't believe it. People are terrible.

I'm definitely sad to see yah go and I hope /u/Quouar doesn't leave us, though I wouldn't blame her, as she's definitely a large part of why I love this sub.

[–]Quouarthe Weather History Slayer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm secretly a big bully. I beat up on the other mods when no one is looking.

[–]pasunthrowaway 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is partly due to the bullying of Quouar, which I find at best pathetic,

Wow, I was not here to see it. Goog thing that I don't know what happenned because I would be angry too, I guess.

[–]arminius_sawMOD ABOOBS 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's been around on and off for a while. None of the parties involved have the balls to actually state grievances, so it's mostly sniping and that one report on one of her posts.

[–]WorldOneWonAlexander the Great Didn't Real 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sad to see you go!

[–]A_Crazy_CanadianEU4 is a Academic Source 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

:( Have a good rest of your life.

[–]40kfreak"that guy" 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It'd be nice if you posted on ask historians, I like knowing the answer-ers are legit when I read it :)

[–]arminius_sawMOD ABOOBS 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not nearly legit enough to actually post on /r/AskHistorians :/

I'd love to get flaired on the Weimar someday, but as it stands I haven't read nearly enough of the right books for it.

[–]ManicMarineSemper Hindustan Super Omnes 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sad to see you go Arminius. I hope you pop back into badhistory occasionally. Good luck with your future.