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PsychologyWhites exposed to evidence of racial privilege claim to have suffered more personal life hardships than those not exposed to evidence of privilege (gsb.stanford.edu)
fortytwowilldo が 3時間前 投稿
[+][削除されました] 1時間前 (1子コメント)
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[–]NosDarkly 362ポイント363ポイント364ポイント 2時間前 (27子コメント)
The phrase "privilege" was adopted to be combative and confrontational. Of course it's use will illicit negative responses. Tell a white person about the disadvantages some minorities face and you may get understanding. Turn it around on them and act like everything is somehow their fault merely for being alive and you'll just make an enemy. It's just a tool of the elite to divide everyone among racial and gender lines so the very rich(people who actually are privileged) are not confronted for how they run society.
[–]cannibaljim 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 42分前 (0子コメント)
The phrase "privilege" was adopted to be combative and confrontational. Of course it's use will illicit negative responses. Tell a white person about the disadvantages some minorities face and you may get understanding. Turn it around on them and act like everything is somehow their fault merely for being alive and you'll just make an enemy.
Exactly. Imagine accusing someone of colour of having Black Jealousy because they're not white. Both terms are insulting and only make racial divisions worse.
[–]iamadogand 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
My first thought was "well that's just a people trait, not a white people trait." It just happens that whites are the more affluent class in the US.
Do the same experiment in another area of the world where they have racism and a different privileged race, and see the exact same behavior.
[–]TigerlillyGastro 31ポイント32ポイント33ポイント 2時間前 (10子コメント)
"Freedom is merely privilege extended, Unless enjoyed by one and all". This gives an interesting conception of privilege, since it frames it along the lines of rights and freedoms that one group assumes are universal, when in fact these freedoms are denied to other groups. I think in terms of the racialised disadvantages, maybe this thinking is closer to truth: that the majority assumes that everyone has these freedoms, but in fact they are limited or denied on basis of silly things like skin tone.
[–]Tech_Itch 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 1時間前 (8子コメント)
Then why not frame those rights and freedoms as universal, and work to get them extended to everyone, instead of painting people whose friendship you could use as "privileged"? If something is a "privilege", it's not a right.
[–]bobsp 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
If something is extended only to one group it is a privilege.
[–]DevotedToNeurosis 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 49分前 (2子コメント)
But is it extended to only one group? Or is it denied to others?
Perhaps we should attack factors that deny, rather than pretend it's selectively extended across the board.
[–]fluffybunnyboo 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 29分前 (1子コメント)
It's a very semantic argument, and you make a valid point (why use words that are divisive?).
But you could argue that framing the discourse in such a way as not to offend the people who are receiving the rights denied to you.... is a little difficult for the other side to swallow. In just the same way you don't like the term privilege. Which kinda makes the semantic argument inflammatory and maybe even more harmful and divisive than a way to find common ground.
Perhaps it's best to leave the lexicon as it is, and focus on the issues rather than semantics?
[–]DevotedToNeurosis 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 19分前 (0子コメント)
I'm just saying that legally/technically/business-wise there is no preference for gender or race.
The preference of gender or race is a result of the individual making choices/decisions within that framework, so let's punish/fix those individuals with their biases.
The "only extended to one group" point of view makes it sound like (at least to me) that it is technically/legally specific to the white race/male gender.
[–]TigerlillyGastro 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
Yeah, it's what you're saying just in the opposite order. If it isn't universal, it can't be freedom/right, it's just privilege.
Another way to think about it, you can say that group a compared to group b is 'privileged' or you can say that group b compared to group a is 'disadvantaged'.
It depends where you want to place the emphasis. Maybe the privilege language shows that the problem is much bigger than we like to think. We like to think that basically we are all equal and have same freedom, and racism/prejudice is just tidying up around the edges. But maybe we are still not much further on than feudalism, with just larger groups enjoying the privilege.
I don't think that the end goal is terribly controversial, maybe only the path to get there.
[–]bbbberlin 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 46分前 (1子コメント)
It's still an issue of framing though, because calling people "disadvantaged" could be construed as the people being at fault for their own sorry condition, whereas "privilege" discourse frames it combatively a situation where one group of people is being put down by another. I mean the argument of "privilege" is not that Joe Public is himself actively a white supremacist parading down the street, it's that Joe Public is through his passive (and sometimes active) actions is part of society that has pretty shocking systematic racism, and nothing much changes. Joe Public still supports his local police department and isn't out protesting when their racist emails get leaked.
I mean there is a different experience of the United States as a whole depending on your skin colour. If you're white you can live your whole life and never be forced to confront some ugly aspects of society. If you're a minority, it will confront you. There is a power differential here... one that we didn't choose to be born into, but it still exists. We can say that "privilege" may be a hurtful or uncomfortable term, but that hurt is pretty minor compared to what others experience verbally and physically with much more frequency.
[–]master_bungle 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Someone once said that we don't have rights, we have temporary privileges.
[–]GhostFish 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 38分前 (0子コメント)
Boy do I ever get pissy when people say driving is a privilege. That word is so loaded and such a trigger for me.
Oh wait, I know that words have various meanings and connotations and I'm not some baby who needs to be coddled.
"Privilege" isn't the problem word. It's the "white" part. Calling it white privilege is an oversimplification of a real problem. It's socioeconomic privilege that largely aligns with being white, but not universally and consistently. But we are too easily distracted by the terminology of divide and conquer tactics to look at it, with our emotions in check, to confront it as the complicated issue that it is.
[–]layorz 159ポイント160ポイント161ポイント 1時間前 (65子コメント)
That's because 'white privilege' denies that white people naturally encounter bias or discrimination, which is ludicrous because people will use anything from height, gender, sexual preference, body fat, the clothes you wear, the sound of your voice, literally anything to discriminate against you should they choose to. These people in the studies are more likely to point out varying discriminations they usually wouldn't because of the inherent denial that they can even experience discrimination at all because they are white, or in response to the idea that theeir skin colour means the discrimination they do experience is lesser or irrelevant altogether.
I have red hair. I have literally been assaulted for having red hair. According to the OP, mentioning this experience is just an attempt to justify white privilege rather than explaining that the colour of my skin doesn't make me impervious to discrimination.
[+][削除されました] 48分前 (7子コメント)
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[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
Chinese do have privilege in China. White people are discriminated against in other countries. These white people do not have privilege.
Racism in the context of sociology is about power as well as prejudice. This definition is used because sociology deals with populations and not individual people, so it makes perfect sense to use a term that works at the population level. When outside of sociology then people call this Institutional racism, as opposed to racial prejudice which is what you usually consider racism. Individual people can have racial prejudice against other people, but it doesn't have the backing of institutional racism (for example segregation).
Privilege should not be applied to an individual level like that. You are not more privileged than most black people in the country. Only taking into account skin colour is doing it wrong.
[+]fb95dd7063 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13ポイント-12ポイント-11ポイント 41分前 (5子コメント)
Privilege is used to describe groups; not individuals.
[–]NotThatEasily 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 25分前 (1子コメント)
But it is often used as a tool to attack an individual. I am constantly told that I get away with the things I do at work specifically because I'm white and male. They are telling me that my privilege is giving me something extra. The people accusing me of this completely ignore any extra qualifications I have, my interpersonal relationships, my demeanor, and people skills. Often, the people accusing me of this have horrible people skills, as evident by their accusations.
While people may try to apply privilege to an entire race, it is used as an attack on a more personal level.
[–]EdgarAllenPoeHunter 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 26分前* (0子コメント)
And I've been physically assaulted for being small and loud. But, fact is, the mistreatment of the small or the loud or the gingery has not led to communities that have an entirely different and more difficult experience of life in American society. Apples n' oranges, mang.
Think of it this way. You got beat up. Presumably as a kid, but maybe not. But you probably overcame that, and now live a normal life where that stuff no longer directly impacts you on a day to day basis. Because these kinds of hardships have an expiration date. Imagine if yours didn't. And then everyone decided, for convenience, to pretend that they did, and it expired 50 years ago.
[–]bobsp 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
Its according to the study and you are confirming it.
[–]Blond_Treehorn_Thug 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 30分前 (1子コメント)
That's because 'white privilege' denies that white people naturally encounter bias or discrimination,
This is absolutely false. If you think this then you do not understand the way the term Is used.
[–]nil_clinton 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 10分前 (0子コメント)
That's how people will hear it.
Regardless of your intent or truth/untruth of the term. (I believe it kinda is true, but a completely unhelpful way of putting it 99% of the time.)
This study proves that.
Whatever you hope to achieve by calling people "privileged" (true or not) it just makes them feel like a victim because of race, and comes across as self-righteous and kinda obnoxious.
[btw I'm not white, and an active anti-racist]
[–]Sage2050 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分前 (0子コメント)
Is it really so hard for you to admit that maybe being white is advantageous?
[–]iamadogand 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 53分前 (0子コメント)
There is discrimination, and there's systemic discrimination.
Everyone has experienced personal discrimination of some form. But it's a fact that black Americans have experienced systemic discrimination.
When confronted with this systemic discrimination that didn't affect whites in the same way it affected blacks (this is what we mean by "white privilege" though I also have some issues with that term), a white person might think to themselves "Wait. They're saying I've had it easy compared to blacks. I didn't have it easy! I've overcome hardships too!"
Everyone has something to overcome. For blacks, part of their challenge is built in to the very system that's supposed to help them, so it's extremely fucked up. For whites, they get defensive if they infer that someone thinks they've had it easy.
I don't think this study is groundbreaking or says anything new about race relations. I think this just merely confirms something about human nature. No one thinks they have it easy, and we tend to overlook the experiences of others to defend ourselves.
[+]DonCarloGesualdo スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 52分前 (5子コメント)
That's because 'white privilege' denies that white people naturally encounter bias or discrimination
That's a common misunderstanding of the term. 'White privilege' only denies that white people, in countries like the US, experience substantial racial discrimination or disenfranchisement.
The other concepts you raise -- height, gender, sexuality -- can just as easily be rephrased in terms of privilege. That is, each of those binaries or spectra contains an implicit, social value judgment: when you say 'height,' you mean 'the privilege of tall people.'
[–]bobbertmiller 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 39分前 (4子コメント)
No, that's the redifinition of the term. It has been adopted to mean exactly your quote.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12分前 (0子コメント)
Privilege in the context of this subreddit (/r/science) is always the sociology version. Same with how theory is the scientific term and not the general one and how racism when not specified further is institutional racism.
[–]DonCarloGesualdo 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 24分前 (2子コメント)
Would you link to the definition -- the authoritative one, you say -- of 'white privilege' that says that white people are immune to all discrimination, even non racial discrimination?
[–]bobbertmiller 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12分前 (1子コメント)
The "authoritative definition of white privilege"? Good luck with that one. Hang around here some more and bask in the current use of the term. I can only tell you the way I've seen it used.
[–]DonCarloGesualdo 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 7分前 (0子コメント)
Ok, can you link to instances of people using it to mean that white people can not suffer gender-based discrimination?
Not saying I don't believe you, but...
[+]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science スコアが基準値未満のコメント-40ポイント-39ポイント-38ポイント 1時間前 (12子コメント)
No that's not what is meant by white privilege. The most commonly used definitions explicitly state that it is only relative to other people of otherwise the same social status. Similarly Heterosexual privilege or other forms of privilege don't deny the existence racial discrimination.
White privilege (or white skin privilege) is a term for societal privileges that benefit white people in Western countries beyond what is commonly experienced by non-white people under the same social, political, or economic circumstances.
What this means is that you should be comparing yourself to non-white people with red hair of the same gender as you with similar income level, weight, and other characteristics.
[–]moodog72 40ポイント41ポイント42ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
This "study" states that disagreement with any part of the idea is proof of it.
If a study was released showing that people argued back harder when shown proof they had committed a crime, the response would be: "Of course the would."
This is along the lines of saying: "Only a criminal denies wrongdoing so fervently".
[–]Chewzilla 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 54分前 (5子コメント)
The quote doesn't really support that claim about privilege being relative to social status.
So my hair color is more relevant to my privilege than my skin color?
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 50分前 (3子コメント)
All factors play a part in it. Having or not having a disability and being cisgender or transgender from memory are some of the bigger factors. Hair colour, gender and skin colour are smaller than those two.
[–]Dreadlifts_Bruh 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 31分前 (1子コメント)
I'm white but have rheumatoid arthritis. Which privilege do I have hardest?
[–]NotThatEasily 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 4分前 (0子コメント)
So, what you're saying is that someone's privilege has a lot more factors at play than their skin color? Maybe, we shouldn't assume someone is getting something extra just because their white?
White privilege is barely a thing, if at all. There is proof at every turn that people of every race can achieve nearly anything they want in western society. Claiming privilege when it's a white person to achieve something is racist. I have earned what I have through hard work and dedication.
[–]tazias04 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 51分前 (2子コメント)
So we are being asked to be racist and discriminate towards race by only comparing ourselves to non-whites?
Should whites be ashamed of our reputation and the visible advantages people offer us?
Then again I don't even understand that definition of privilege because reputation is something available to all people of all races as opposed to something enforced by law and prohibited to others.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 36分前 (1子コメント)
In the context of this paper which is about white privilege then you should control for all other factors and then vary race. Or you could use ethnicity instead which is more precise and differentiates between British, Irish and other people grouped into the white racial category. If you wanted to look at the affects of wealth privilege then you would compare yourself to people which differ as little as possible in every respect other than how much money they have.
Absolutely not. But it is something to think about when comparing yourself with your peers. Perhaps some of them are more successful not because they are smarter or more hard working, but because their parents have connections which let them get internships at big companies. Perhaps some of them are worse off because their grandparents faced racial discrimination preventing them from getting good jobs which in turn meant that their parents had less access to education which meant that they didn't go as well and so have to work long hours and got less time to help with homework.
The overall point is to not assume that everyone starts off as a blank slate with equal opportunities in life.
[–]tazias04 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 20分前 (0子コメント)
Well your not responsible for that.
Therefore no one should be blamed and criticized for it or assumed they are privileged over others.
Perhaps some of them are worse off because their grandparents faced racial discrimination preventing them from getting good jobs
As a matter of fact, in the past black people and Irish people faced way WAY WAY more discrimination as today and they were getting more jobs and stabler families.
Look maybe because african-americans were facing discrimination it motivated them to get higher paying jobs in order to prove people wrong.
Why is your line of reasoning more valid then this one?
And seriously both of these reasoning eliminate any form of responsibility to the individual for the continuation of his state of affairs.
Perhaps some of them are more successful not because they are smarter or more hard working, but because their parents have connections which let them get internships at big companies.
These do not function for a long time if the kid is not productive, profits matter.
Further more, the relationships you have require to be cultivated. You won't get anything if your relationship sucks. Maintaining relationships are hard work. And trust me, family is not an ensurance of "help" or "privilege".
But regardless, in principle, these people did not choose to be borned in these conditions and cannot therefore be made responsible and considered privileged.
[+]Sage2050 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-53ポイント-52ポイント-51ポイント 1時間前 (21子コメント)
It doesn't do that at all and you're literally proving the article right. Nobody wants you to feel bad for having a privilege, just accept that you had a head start in life the second you were born.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 1時間前 (14子コメント)
I wouldn't say that they had a head start, to judge that you would need to compare other factors like whether they were born into a low income family, what country they were born in, if they have any physical or mental disabilities and a whole bunch of other factors.
[–]moodog72 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 1時間前 (11子コメント)
Don't disagree. That's just more proof that you're enjoying privilege too. Don't you see how this works?
This "study" makes it impossible to disagree with any part of the idea of white privilege. If you do, it is more proof of it. It has now come down to thought policing.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (9子コメント)
This paper assumes the existence of white privilege in advance, so proving it's existence isn't the point of the paper. It's common for research papers to build off of existing research.
[+][削除されました] 57分前 (8子コメント)
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science[M] -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 53分前 (7子コメント)
This is a science subreddit, so you'll need to provide sources to back up your claim that white privilege doesn't exist. Please message the moderators when you have edited in a peer reviewed research paper supporting your position to have your comment approved.
[–]Terminal-Psychosis 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 26分前 (2子コメント)
Where are yours proving it does? There are none.
MONETARY advantage is a provable thing, and you hardly need science to prove that.
"Race Privilege" is not even a theory, it is a political buzzword.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 22分前 (1子コメント)
Racial privilege is absolutely a theory, and it's well established within sociology. See comment rule 4, only arguments which run counter to established theories need supporting evidence. If you want some research in support of white privilege you can try /r/askscience or /r/AskSocialScience
[–]chill1995 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 27分前 (3子コメント)
Would an atheist need to provide sources to back up the claim that god doesn't exist?
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分前 (2子コメント)
Absolutely and they'd probably be more famous than Einstein if they could do so.
If an atheist wants to claim that there is evidence in favour of a god or gods existing then this would not need proof.
[–]chill1995 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 4分前 (1子コメント)
Your two statements just contradicted themselves. The onus is always on the person making the claim for existence. In this context, the onus is not on the person claiming that white privilege does not exist.
[–]HBOXNW -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 34分前 (0子コメント)
So if you agree with the study, white people have this mysterious privilege that gives them a great life, if you disagree with it, you are proving said privilege?
[–]Bizoza9 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 44分前 (3子コメント)
Okay, I will highlight the issue. I have white privalege. It's there, it's acknowledged, and now what?
[–]Sage2050 -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 35分前 (2子コメント)
What issue is that the highliting? If you understand that you had better opportunities in life it should make you stop and think before you say something like "I made it, why couldn't they?" or "why don't you just work harder?". There's nothing hostile or 'gotcha!' about white privilege, it's just something that exists. Acknowledging it doesn't make you a better person or anything, it's just becoming more aware of the world you live in.
Edit:for the record, white privilege doesn't mean you are personally privileged, it just means that by virtue of being born white there are certain hardships that you don't ever have to worry about.
[+]KarlMental スコアが基準値未満のコメント-32ポイント-31ポイント-30ポイント 1時間前 (7子コメント)
No. The study suggest that you would press harder on those experiences if you were told whites are privileged beforehand. You know. Like the fact that you brought this up in response to the study :)
[–]moodog72 23ポイント24ポイント25ポイント 1時間前 (6子コメント)
Right. The "study" proves that disagreeing with any part of the idea of white privilege is, in fact, proof of it.
[–]Razzal 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分前 (0子コメント)
Sounds like religion
[+]KarlMental スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8ポイント-7ポイント-6ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
No. The study suggests that if you are faced with evidence of your group having a better deal than other groups you will be more likely to downplay the effect that has had on your life.
If you showed the social outcomes of people born to millionaires to a child of a millionaire he would likely downplay his parents' wealth on the outcome of his life.
[–]Wallaby-wacker 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 19分前 (3子コメント)
So if I am accused of having some kind of game breaking advantages over my peers then the act of defending myself becomes an example of said advantages? Thats a very neat way to beg the question and poison the well for anything i might have to say in response.
[–]KarlMental 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (2子コメント)
Does it really say that defending yourself proves the privilege?
[–]Wallaby-wacker 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 7分前 (1子コメント)
Using privilege like that is an abusive tactic thats very close to an ad hominem attack. Its effectively denying a person their perception of reality due to skin color or socio economic background.
[–]KarlMental 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 5分前 (0子コメント)
Even so. How does the act of defending yourself prove white privilege? I see the study to already accept the existence of white privilege and wanting to study the effects of highlighting it. I don't see any attempt at proving the existence of white privilege.
[–]dwilder812 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Well yeah when you tell someone you have had an easier life because your skin color they are going to find a need to defend themselves more than someone that aren't being accused. You can use that pretense for any study
[–]Nyarlathoteps_Cat 22ポイント23ポイント24ポイント 1時間前 (5子コメント)
So whites in general? As in me an American Mutt, a Scottish Highlander, and my crazy Hungarian Geology Professor can all just be identified as one? That is as dumb as calling Idris Elba African American.
Here is an idea, lets's focus on actually helping instead of devoting time and energy to who has the most privilege. And let's not forget the class warfare like to pass the blame on to racism.
[–]woohalladoobop -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 18分前 (1子コメント)
But white people realizing that they have probably the most privileged position in society would be the single biggest step towards fixing a lot of these problems.
[–]paracog 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
As a white man, I've had a pretty cushy life in California. Not so much my mother and stepfather who paid the equivalent of a the cost of a new car every year to send me to a good boarding school, despite having been raised in the Depression. My stepfather watched his father be killed by a drunk driver and quit school, supporting his mother and three younger brothers. My mother was a latchkey child whose mother worked 12 hour days in a sweatshop to raise her 2 daughters, my grandfather having killed himself so as to not have his tuberculosis be a burden on his family. My great grandparents came over in the bottom of a boat from Norway to grind out a living in South Dakota from a farm. My grandmother ran away, crippled from birth, got a job and went to the Mayo clinic to have it fixed. It's true I don't personally deserve how soft my life has been, but it's because of the hard work and investments made by my forebears that it's been so good.
[–]IdleChatMeister 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
It's a reaction people have when comparing past illness, the person that "wins" is the one that was closer to death. It's most likely the same reaction people would have if confronted with facts about gender inequalitiy, or in many parts of the world, based on religious beliefs (Jews and atheists come to mind, or Christians in muslim countries and viceversa, etc.).
[+][削除されました] 2時間前 (3子コメント)
[–]Tocor 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I am going to take my time to read the article my self, but here is my first initial reaction: it smells like shit is in the air. It might be that their methods and found evidence is sound, but I find it hard to imagine that a person who refers to Caucasians as "Whites" and talks about "White Privilege" is someone who other academics take seriously. I atleast can't take this as something serious. It makes them seem entirely unacademic. Besides that I think the conclusions we read are presented too much as hard evidence and possibly a misinterpretation of the results because of bias. That is my first initial guess/response though.
[–]the_weather_man_ 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 37分前 (0子コメント)
Anyone have the link behind the paywall?
[–]GourmetCoffee 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 27分前 (0子コメント)
Look this whole argument is stupid, because it's one side arguing the meaning of the word, and the other arguing the intent.
The meaning is that, given all other factors equal, a white person and black person facing the same obstacles in life, a black person would have to face racial profiling on top of all the rest.
That's not the problem.
The problem is that the word is intentionally used in inflammatory context to get white people to be frustrated so they can be painted in a bad light. It is not used clearly within its true meaning.
When you go up to a passive, non-racist white person and try to make an enemy out of them because they made the mistake of simply being white and not crusading against racism, you've turned a potential friend into an enemy, and this is the problem with the use of these words.
You can always tell the difference between activists that want to make a difference and activists that simply want to make headlines and start problems. One seeks friends and the other seeks enemies.
Because if you don't have enemies, it's harder to justify your self pitying outlook on life.
I feel like it's a result of the times. The economy is shit, and most people aren't happy, so they're looking to point fingers at things outside of their control for why they don't have the things in life they feel they are owed.
It's frustrating to have people tell you that as a white, straight male, if you're not living the good life it's your fault for squandering you privilege, but for everyone else, it's because they're black or a woman or gay that they struggle.
[–]trevoris 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Do people in China spend time researching "Chinese Privilege"?
Come to think about it, of course they don't.
[–]hubaluba 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 2時間前 (30子コメント)
wtf is a "white privilege"??
[+]maskedman3d スコアが基準値未満のコメント-11ポイント-10ポイント-9ポイント 2時間前 (24子コメント)
The fact that I got pulled over for having a headlight out and my insurance card was expired and I only got a verbal warning. No ticket, not even a fix-it ticket, just a "Well get that fixed as soon as you can and make sure you have your current insurance card with you next time."
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[–]frostiitute 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 56分前 (1子コメント)
That's a nice anecdote you've got there.
What makes you think that same police officer wouldn't cut a black guy some slack as well?
[–]spidersnake 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 54分前 (0子コメント)
You think the officer was having a good day, thinking he'd be lenient but the second he saw some asian/middle-eastern/african person sitting in that seat, he'd think "Nah, this person's getting a ticket" that's not "white privilege" you're talking bout there, you're just noting someones personal biases. That is not a sign of a wider conspiracy.
[–]Dubbedbass 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
Go to Williamson county, Texas if you want to see what it's like to be treated equal with everyone else. White privilege doesn't exist with cops there believe me. I got pulled over for going three over in a 45 mph zone. Not a school zone or workers present. Just a normal street going 3 mph over and despite a clean driving record (this was the second time in 20 years of driving I've ever been pulled over) I got a ticket. White or not the police in Wilco only care about issuing the ticket and getting the money.
[+]pinskia スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 57分前 (2子コメント)
You are just proving the point of the paper by talking about your personal experience.
[–]REDDIT_IN_MOTION 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
So the poser above should just "Shut up and Listen"?
[–]Dreadlifts_Bruh 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 20分前 (0子コメント)
It's a stupid paper.
[–]You_Gullible_Sheep2 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間前 (7子コメント)
Looking presentable and being polite goes a long way in dealing with police. Maybe the issue isn't so much race related, but culture related. Why is it "black" culture is so strongly tied to "street" culture. If you follow this culture which tends to glorify criminal acts, don't act surprised when you get treated like a criminal.
Same goes for those whites who follow this culture. Doubt they get things easy. Its not so much a privilege, it's more of higher percentage of certain groups who refuse to act civilly that create their own disadvantage.
[–]HFhProfessor|Computing|Machine Learning 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
Are you aware of the various studies showing that given the same behavior, same dress, etc, Black males are often seen as more aggressive than their White counterparts?
[–]moodog72 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
Darker colors are deemed more intimidating. That is why police usually wear indigo. It is a byproduct of that effect, not systemic racism, which is responsible for most of these effects.
[–]HFhProfessor|Computing|Machine Learning 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 20分前 (0子コメント)
I'm sorry: what's the difference?
[–]Quexana 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 35分前 (0子コメント)
Black males being often seen as more aggressive because "darker colors are more intimidating" is absolutely a byproduct of systemic racism.
[–]_Amateurmetheus_ 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Looking presentable doesn't always go that far.
That's James Blake, a former top 5 tennis player and Harvard grad. BTW, the person he was mistaken for was ALSO innocent. And the alleged crime was credit card fraud. When exactly was he supposed to be polite?
[–]Mordredbas 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 2時間前 (25子コメント)
Possibly because the whites that claim to suffer more hardship are from the same relative socio-economic background as the minority participants and are treated like crap too? Just a thought.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 23ポイント24ポイント25ポイント 2時間前 (14子コメント)
Perhaps you should read the article and look at how the studies are set up and not just the post title.
[–]Mordredbas 27ポイント28ポイント29ポイント 2時間前 (12子コメント)
I am way too poor with my white privilege to pay 36 bucks for this. That's a weeks groceries.
[–]PrettyIceCubeBS|Computer Science 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Yeah access to articles is very expensive. The abstracts usually have enough detail in them to have a basic idea of the study performed though. If you are fortunate enough to be at university then you can often get access to papers though them.
[–]thenovamaster 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
As one of my old research professors would put it: abstracts are the best way for an author to lie about their work.
[–]rydan 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (6子コメント)
Scumbag OP. Posts an article here and expects people to read it. Those that need it the most can't afford it or don't have free (privileged) access to it since they don't go to Stanford. You'd think OP would be sensitive to this but apparently not.
[–]Mordredbas 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間前 (5子コメント)
Well let's see, students in Stanford are 40% white, the population of the US is 63% white so white privilege obviously gets you into Stanford?
[–]utilsucks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 55分前 (4子コメント)
Damn, give me some of that sweet sweet over represented Asian privilege.
No, but seriously, it couldn't be that Asian people work harder and thus make better grades?
[–]Mordredbas 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 52分前 (3子コメント)
Isn't that as big a stereotype as white privilege?
[–]utilsucks 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 49分前 (2子コメント)
Or maybe there's no grand racial conspiracy and parts of the world like certain elite universities truly are meritocratic?
[–]Mordredbas 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 48分前 (0子コメント)
I never said there was one, just pointing out white privilege doesn't seem to get you into Stanford.
[–]NGC2467 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 38分前 (0子コメント)
Not in America. American universities are proud of their racial discrimination.
[–]fortytwowilldo[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
I posted excerpts of the article in a comment in here. You can read parts of the methodology / results and discussion there.
[–]Terminal-Psychosis 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 52分前 (0子コメント)
permalink please.
[–]Orangebeardo 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Perhaps people should post better titles. Journalism is dead.
[–]fortytwowilldo[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2時間前 (8子コメント)
The study reports experiments, which means they took white people and randomly assigned them to either read about white privilege or not and afterwards let them rate how hard they think their life was. In three experiements, when people read about white privilege they rated their own life as harder. One can speculate that people focus on their own hardships to have some kind of justification for such racial differences.
You can observe this here on reddit a lot. Whenever there is an article about somebody helping poor people and acknowleding disadvantages for them, somebody comes along and talks about his/her first-world problem.
[–]samamp 25ポイント26ポイント27ポイント 2時間前 (3子コメント)
perhaps this is because people get defensive when someone "accuses" them of being priviledged because of the color of their skin...
[–]PhonyUsername 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Naturally. These surveys are manufactured to achieve the desired results.
[–]thenovamaster 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 22分前 (0子コメント)
Agreed. Seems like a faulty study to me. I'll have to finish reading it after I get to the office though.
[–]PhonyUsername 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Do the do the same thing in reverse, or was this study designed just to display these inevitable results?
[–]moodog72 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
How did people of color rank themselves after reading?
Missing data on that?
It's a human response, they would have done the same, after reading of white privilege.
Any narrative will start you thinking about your own life, and how it relates. This is about people having their memory jogged, and a carefully selected group, in order to "prove" a foregone conclusion.
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[–]monkeydave -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 1時間前 (8子コメント)
I love the comments here that literally prove the article.
"Whites who are told about white privilege more likely to bring up their own hardships to discount the role of privilege in their life." "That's bull crap! I'm white and I've had hardships!"
[–]timetravelhunter 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
I'm white with no hardships. I don't deny privilege. Although privilege is extremely relative. Being white makes it harder to get into college or find a job, but I wouldn't doubt if it was often easier to get promoted (assuming it is a predominantly white environment).
My significant other recruits for one of the most prestigious tech companies in the US. She spends 90% of her time trying to fill "diversity hire positions". In other words, white males are getting excluded before they even had a chance. That certainly is privileged to everybody but white males.
[–]jamesrom 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 57分前 (1子コメント)
I literally cannot find one comment that resembles anything close to this strawman.
[–]acl5dGrad Student | Microbiology | Immunology 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
That's because lots of them have been removed. But there are still many that haven't been yet. Another one pops up every few minutes.
[–]thenovamaster 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
There is literally one comment here that contains "as a white.." and that comment is mostly neutral. Not even one that says "I'm white." In fact there's more people saying exactly what you're saying than even exclaiming their own race. Keep building those strawmen, pal, you'll make a business out of it one day.
[–]pinskia -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 55分前 (1子コメント)
Why is this voted down. It is like people don't understand the article at all.
[–]dodo215 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 11分前 (0子コメント)
I agree. I think people don't understand what white privilege is. What privilege is institutional and a systemic issue. People seem to be getting caught up by examining one individual person (usually themselves) and say "No evidence of white privilege here." However, if you look at our country as a system, there is white privilege-- in the housing market, education, and you better believe, the legal system. However, I do agree with some people's comments who have pointed out that gender, sexual orientation, class, whatever the identifying thing may be, can be viewed as a privileged/oppressed binary. Now I didn't read the study (so who knows if their methodology is legit), but I think a good take home message is that individuals should consider it from a societal point of view rather than an individual stand point.
[–]REDDIT_IN_MOTION -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
If only they would "Shut up and Listen" right?
[–]fortytwowilldo[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
We hypothesize that claiming hardships allows Whites to deny racial privilege extends to thempersonally while accepting its existence for the group as a whole. If people believe that racial privilege entails a lack of hardship, then the presence of hardshipwould signal an absence of personal privilege. By claiming life hardships, Whites can protect their sense of self from threat associated with racial privilege. How can outcomes be undeserved, how can privilege have offered personal benefits, when life has been so hard? Participants completed two ostensibly unrelated surveys, the first regarding beliefs about inequality in America and the second about childhood memories In the White Privilege condition, participants read instructions asking them to think about inequality in America as they took the survey, followed by a paragraph about Whites' advantages in American society (adapted from Lowery, Chow, Knowles, & Unzueta, 2012): In the last half of this century, Americans have given considerable attention to matters of racial inequality. Despite increased attention to the issue, most social scientists agree that, even today, White Americans enjoy many privileges that Black Americans do not. White Americans are advantaged in the domains of academics, housing, healthcare, jobs, and more compared to Black Americans. Life hardshipswasmeasuredwith five items (“My life has been full of hardships”; “There have been many struggles I have suffered”; “My life has had many obstacles”; “My life has been easy” (reverse scored); and “I have had many difficulties in life that I could not overcome”; α1a = .86; α1b = .90). Participants rated their agreement with each item on a 7-point scale (1= Strongly Disagree; 7 = Strongly Agree). As hypothesized, participants in the White Privilege condition claimedmore life hardships than participants in the No Privilege condition, Experiment 1a, t(92) = 2.40, p = .02, d = .49, 95% CI [.10, 1.10]. We replicated this effect in Experiment 1b. Participants in theWhite Privilege condition claimed more life hardships than those in the No Privilege condition, t(89)=1.93, p = .057, d=.41, 95% CI [−.02, 1.16]. We found that claiming hardships helps individuals discount the role of systemic privilege in their personal lives, despite accepting that group-level privilege exists. Importantly, this discounting of personal privilege is ultimately associated with diminished support for affirmative action policies — policies that could help reduce privilege and increase racial equity. The current work demonstrates that individuals exhibit a previously unknown response to evidence that they benefit from group inequity: people may accept that in-group privilege exists, but change their perceptions of their own lives in order to deny the role of systemic advantages in their success. In particular, when provided evidence that their group has benefitted from privilege, Whites suggest that they have instead suffered the hard-knock life by claiming increased personal life hardships. This may serve to bolster their sense of legitimacy and reduce the negative attributional implications of privilege (e.g., Feather, 1992; Knowles& Lowery, 2012). Such a response has the potential to erode acknowledgement of racial inequity, and support for policies designed to reduce such inequity. To successfully address inequity, understanding the privileged is likely as important as understanding the underprivileged.
We hypothesize that claiming hardships allows Whites to deny racial privilege extends to thempersonally while accepting its existence for the group as a whole. If people believe that racial privilege entails a lack of hardship, then the presence of hardshipwould signal an absence of personal privilege. By claiming life hardships, Whites can protect their sense of self from threat associated with racial privilege. How can outcomes be undeserved, how can privilege have offered personal benefits, when life has been so hard?
Participants completed two ostensibly unrelated surveys, the first regarding beliefs about inequality in America and the second about childhood memories
In the White Privilege condition, participants read instructions asking them to think about inequality in America as they took the survey, followed by a paragraph about Whites' advantages in American society (adapted from Lowery, Chow, Knowles, & Unzueta, 2012): In the last half of this century, Americans have given considerable attention to matters of racial inequality. Despite increased attention to the issue, most social scientists agree that, even today, White Americans enjoy many privileges that Black Americans do not. White Americans are advantaged in the domains of academics, housing, healthcare, jobs, and more compared to Black Americans.
Life hardshipswasmeasuredwith five items (“My life has been full of hardships”; “There have been many struggles I have suffered”; “My life has had many obstacles”; “My life has been easy” (reverse scored); and “I have had many difficulties in life that I could not overcome”; α1a = .86; α1b = .90). Participants rated their agreement with each item on a 7-point scale (1= Strongly Disagree; 7 = Strongly Agree).
As hypothesized, participants in the White Privilege condition claimedmore life hardships than participants in the No Privilege condition, Experiment 1a, t(92) = 2.40, p = .02, d = .49, 95% CI [.10, 1.10]. We replicated this effect in Experiment 1b. Participants in theWhite Privilege condition claimed more life hardships than those in the No Privilege condition, t(89)=1.93, p = .057, d=.41, 95% CI [−.02, 1.16].
We found that claiming hardships helps individuals discount the role of systemic privilege in their personal lives, despite accepting that group-level privilege exists. Importantly, this discounting of personal privilege is ultimately associated with diminished support for affirmative action policies — policies that could help reduce privilege and increase racial equity.
The current work demonstrates that individuals exhibit a previously unknown response to evidence that they benefit from group inequity: people may accept that in-group privilege exists, but change their perceptions of their own lives in order to deny the role of systemic advantages in their success. In particular, when provided evidence that their group has benefitted from privilege, Whites suggest that they have instead suffered the hard-knock life by claiming increased personal life hardships. This may serve to bolster their sense of legitimacy and reduce the negative attributional implications of privilege (e.g., Feather, 1992; Knowles& Lowery, 2012). Such a response has the potential to erode acknowledgement of racial inequity, and support for policies designed to reduce such inequity. To successfully address inequity, understanding the privileged is likely as important as understanding the underprivileged.
[–]Eclipz905 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
1) Was everyone survey white? If not, was the effect more pronounced in whites than in other racial groups?
2) It sounds like there were only two experimental groups: one primed with the white privilege paragraph, and one without that paragraph. It seems to me there should have been at least one more group, primed with different material on inequality. This might help show if the effect is specific to white privilege, or perhaps observed with all examples of inequality.
[–]pinskia 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
No wonder people are being idiots when responding, they voted down an extract from the article itself.
[–]Dubbedbass 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
I don't know about this study. It was run only in white participants. Maybe they thought more of their personal hardships to discount white privilege when told about it. But maybe ALL people are more likely to think more of their personal hardships after being told about white privilege. That would be kind of a different finding.
[–]thenovamaster 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15分前 (0子コメント)
That's the problem here..
It's actually almost like they're assuming white people are another species other than human.
[–]Ruktov 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 36分前 (0子コメント)
Personal suffering is relative. I don't know what it feels like to live in poverty, but does that mean I don't suffer other things? Everyone suffers, some suffer in more extreme ways, but trying to accuse someone of not understanding that suffering without actually experiencing it is pretty ridiculous.
[–]a_white_american_guy -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
That makes a lot of sense. Privileged people have more components of their lives that can be good or go bad.
[–]higmage 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Has this study been reproduced?
[–]bobsp 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18分前 (0子コメント)
Its being reproduced here over and over again.
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[–]Longrodrington -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 46分前 (1子コメント)
Let's just call it "baseline human rights". That way whenever someone complains about it, they are actually complaining that they themselves do not have the same opportunities
[–]antisoshal 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 32分前 (0子コメント)
This. The idea of expressing the idea as privilege inherently insinuates that the baseline for rights and opportunity is LOWER and that whites have an elevated level that must be relinquished. By expressing the difference as a lack of opportunity and rights that need to be elevated to the baseline, you don't immediately alienate people with the idea that they must lose opportunity or rights to remedy the situation. The goal should be to elevate all to equality, not denigrate some to accommodate.
[–]SCphotog -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 36分前 (0子コメント)
Bunch of circle talk, best as I can tell.
[–]qaaqa -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 14分前 (0子コメント)
Keep fighting amongst yourself people. Its what they want. While the guys who run the world take away your national sovereignty wih the TPP trade agreement. You will wake up to realize none of wht you were distracted with mattered because now you all lost all your important rights on a international scale to corporate owning monsters.
π Rendered by PID 7090 on app-01 at 2015-09-28 12:40:04.745262+00:00 running 72eab47 country code: JP.
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