3565
3566

Six years ago, Hitchens perfectly predicts the current social climate of speech suppression, and warns that anyone who talks outside the script will be accused of bigotry. (youtu.be)

KadabraJuices が 投稿

上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]sludj5 907ポイント908ポイント  (299子コメント)

Hitchens is the only public figure whose death has genuinely had a prolonged impact on me. I am always wondering what his take on current affairs would be... there have been so many issues since his passing that he would have been champing at the bit to speak about: Kim Davis, for example, would have been Hitchslapped into oblivion.

e: Since this post is getting some minor exposure I figured I'd transcribe one of my favourite Hitchslaps:

Interviewer: If God were real, would he not have been good to you?

H: No. It would mean I had been under constant surveillance and supervision every minute of my life. It would be like living in North Korea. That would be a horrible outcome.

Interviewer: Well, I'm not sure that God is Kim-Jong Il, but-

H: Ask Kim-Jong Il. He has a different opinion.

[–]carteblanche289248 126ポイント127ポイント  (13子コメント)

I miss the man too, deeply. His intellect was incredible and just listening to him is always a pleasure.

[–]wowy-lied 116ポイント117ポイント  (214子コメント)

I feel really sad when i think about him and see that nearly no one seems to follow his path.

[–]sludj5 155ポイント156ポイント  (209子コメント)

I like Sam Harris, but Hitchens' wit and eloquence is as yet unmatched.

[–]jonesyjonesy 273ポイント274ポイント  (183子コメント)

For those who don't know Sam Harris well, you can see Ben Affleck ERUPT at him over the same topic this thread is addressing.

Sam is great, in my opinion. Much different, from Hitch. He takes a calmer, more sensitive approach, but is equally stern in his core views.

[–]master_bungle 309ポイント310ポイント  (68子コメント)

That was very annoying to watch. It was like Ben Affleck was so angry about what he thought Sam Harris was saying that he couldn't understand what he was actually saying.

[–]magus678 193ポイント194ポイント  (10子コメント)

It was like Ben Affleck was so angry about what he thought Sam Harris was saying that he couldn't understand what he was actually saying.

This is SOP for a lot of people. I think it comes from arguing from an emotive place rather than a logical one.

[–]cloudofevil 22ポイント23ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it comes from arguing from an emotive place rather than a logical one.

Many people seem to not have the education and desire to form well researched and reasoned positions. Ben Affleck seems to be repeating a narrative he's been told and I would guess he doesn't realize the disparity between his and Harris's knowledge on the subject. It's similar to people who have never taken a differential equations, calc based physics class,etc arguing against climatologists. I think they don't realize they don't even have the foundation to understand a climate model.

[–]G30therm 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how they listed him as "actor - gone girl" because that sums up the value of his opinion compared to the rest of the people on the show.

[–]paross 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yet it's that very idea that carries current popular opinion.

Hurting someone's feelings matters more in America than any real crime.

[–]magus678 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I suspect it has to do with how easy we have it. When people have actual things to worry about, or at least don't live in mild opulence, they become much more practically minded.

Which I think goes to show that we will invent conflict if we need to.

[–]bobbybouchier 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

Julius Caesar once wrote that the barbarians had an advantage over him because their men were not exposed to the softening effects of civilization.

コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

    [–]Almostcomatose 65ポイント66ポイント  (31子コメント)

    Want to get really annoyed? Cenk Uygur and The Young Turks have basically been on a strawmanning rampage of Harris for awhile now. After being shown exactly how they are misrepresenting Harris, Cenk continues to double down. You can watch a guy lie in real time. Check it

    [–]SoapBoxOne 38ポイント39ポイント  (11子コメント)

    I'm glad I didn't know about the young Turks before this whole Sam Harris debacle. My first and only impression of Cenk Uygur is that he is a loud moron not unlike the talking heads of fox. He just happens to be loud and stupid on a different side of the political spectrum.

    [–]Almostcomatose 35ポイント36ポイント  (9子コメント)

    He is exactly that, a pseudo intellectual. And while I agree with Bill Maher on this certain topic, I think Maher would fit into that same category.

    [–]Satsuz 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I used to enjoy watching Bill Maher, a long time ago. It was an interesting transition, to go from watching his show to having these seemingly out-of-place moments of "What the fuck is he saying? That makes no sense."

    What I've realized is this: Bill Maher is a clever man pretending to be wise.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]Hegiman 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Oh god I can't stand the young jerks. They are idots IMO.

        [–]CaptainCAPSLOCKED 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I find it interesting that Cenk is engaged in "progressive" word policing and privelege checking... and yet the term 'Young Turk' refers to a hyper nationalistic group of Turks who eventually started the Armenian genocide

        Young Turks is a politically offensive term, and if this is how we debate with each other now... I guess I'm triggered by Cenk and demand that my feelings are catered to.

        コメントをもっと表示する (15 返事)

          [–]tumescentpie 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

          There is an interview that happened after this where Sam talks about how Ben didn't know who he was and was filled in by other people ahead of time, which probably clouded the way that Ben received him. He also talked about how this conversation went on for hours after the taping in the green room.

          I wish I could talk to Sam Harris for 15 minutes, let alone hours. That would be pretty awesome.

          I think this is the interview, but it is an hour+ and I don't have time to filter it right now.

          [–]SoapBoxOne 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

          He said something similar on the Joe Rogan podcast. It was Sam's impression that Ben was coached beforehand, but there is no evidence of it.

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]carlidew 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Yes, Ben is just trying to speak to say something and sound like he's defending Islam, when really he is defending ignorance and anti-intellectualism.

            [–]demalo 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think the biggest issue is the divide between ignorance and intellectualism and that illusion that this gulf can be breached. Not every ignorant person can become an intellectual, nor can every intellectual understand the position of an ignorant person.

            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

              [–]FlyAwayStupidKite 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

              Bill Maher didn't help. He basically diluted and recolored what Sam Harris was trying to say.

              コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                [–]imgonnacallyouretard 131ポイント132ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Harris: It's very difficult to talk about Islam without being branded a racist.

                Affleck: YOU FUCKING RACIST HOW THE FUCK COULD YOU SAY THAT?

                [–]FifteenSixteen 117ポイント118ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Ben seems to be completely missing the point that Sam is trying to make.

                [–]ShadowAssassinQueef 53ポイント54ポイント  (1子コメント)

                That's what happens when you yell over someone after not listening to them

                [–]throw777 59ポイント60ポイント  (1子コメント)

                The first moronic things out of his mouth prove Sam Harris's point for him. Misunderstanding doesn't get more pronounced than that.

                [–]sluffmonster 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It was almost comical to me how Sam says: "We conflate any criticism, and call people bigots for it" and Ben immediately goes off and does just that...

                [–]SoapBoxOne 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Interesting how Sam opens with the statement about conflating bigotry with criticism of ideology and then immediately afterwards that's what Ben does.

                [–]snorlz 118ポイント119ポイント  (29子コメント)

                Affleck is a well intentioned idiot. Hes arguing based entirely on emotion and zero evidence. its pretty obvious hes never done any research on the subject.

                [–]sludj5 85ポイント86ポイント  (13子コメント)

                I think Harris is someone who needs the breathing room to carefully lay out his arguments. That's not to say he did badly against Affleck, just that he's at his best when he isn't forced to fit his points around actors yelling at him across the table.

                I love the video of him debunking Deepak Chopra http://youtu.be/hU6TkfCGlX8

                [–]jonesyjonesy 53ポイント54ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Well, in fairness, I don't think anyone is effective at arguing under a "yelling match" platform.

                [–]StarSkreamNA 47ポイント48ポイント  (3子コメント)

                That is why Hitchens is missed and Sam Harris (or anyone else) hasn't been able to fill that void. He could escalate and match someone who was trying to talk over him.

                [–]noisymime 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I'll be honest, that was actually something that annoyed me about Hitchens. I could agree totally with his argument, but it often felt like he was lowering himself to the level of his opponents when engaging like that. I can't deny that an approach like that seemed to play better with a lot of crowds, but I respect Sam a lot more for being able to stay calm and reasoned against these crazies.

                [–]Almostcomatose 36ポイント37ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Yeah but if you have someone interrupting your time in a formal debate, you cant just give them that time. You didn't interrupt them, they interrupted you. It is rude and bad debate etiquette and they should have been slapped, but talking over them will work just as well.

                [–]SoapBoxOne 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It was great having people talented at handling different situations though. When one side dominates (shouts over) the entire conversation, usually due to a weak moderator, there was always Hitchens who was ready to fight back. He did the dirty work so others like Dawkins and Harris could remain calm and collected by comparison.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]German_Mafia 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  This is a perfect description. You need to listen to Sam's ides in full before making a decision on what he is saying.

                  [–]jimbokun 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  He was great against Affleck. He was calm, rational, coherent, and on point.

                  Affleck was an idiot who kept responding to arguments no one was making.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                    [–]SmLnine 61ポイント62ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    I guess Ben Affleck lost his temper but he acted like a real douche on that show.

                    [–]EmperorCorbyn 72ポイント73ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Ben Affleck talks like a redditor

                    [–]fucky_fucky 115ポイント116ポイント  (24子コメント)

                    TIL Ben Affleck is a moronic twat.

                    [–]k_uger 32ポイント33ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Holy shit, Affleck is an idiot.

                    [–]IAmAShitposterAMA 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Affleck has half the brain he thinks he does lmao

                    [–]PM-ME-YOUR-SUNSETS 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Woah TIL Ben Affleck speaks for all muslims.

                    lol wtf is he even doing?

                    [–]Cult_Modern 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    god affleck is such a cunt

                    コメントをもっと表示する (20 返事)

                      [–]wowy-lied 59ポイント60ポイント  (12子コメント)

                      I did not know about him (not from the usa, france), currently reading his wiki page.

                      To give you my perspective, in my country the kind of speech hitchens was famous for would often be sued and sentenced for racism by our justice system. Freedom of speech is in our constitution but is then very limited by the laws. Here "offending" a religion or even criticizing one is a big nono. I remember my years in university, we had people from China, East Europe, Iran, The Maghreb, Italy...Most of them fine people. But when we talked and the subject touched religion it often became very heated. Especially one time when i was talking (i am an atheist) with a Muslim (Male) from Iran, a Christian (Female) from Italy and 3 Muslims (Females) from the Maghreb. With the Iranian it was possible to talk, yes he had beliefs but he was someone who you could say was a "modern muslim", not stuck in the dark age. At one moment of the discussion it was about the veil, it was after our parliament voted a law forbidding wearing a religious symbol hidding the face in public place. I swear i have never been insulted more in my life than by those 3 girls. The italian girl, the iranian and i were supporting this law and were like monsters to them. They did not stopped saying things like we would burn for this or that we don't understand "their" god. So it was really hot and after 30-40 min it stopped when they were not able to answer any of our questions anymore.

                      Right after that we 3 were sent to the principle office and told to never do this again because we were offending the muslims girls and because it was creating tension into the university.

                      I mean, wtf ?

                      [–]Sion4000 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Political correctness gone mad.

                      [–]lookingforapartments 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Political correctness is supposed to be a very good thing: it's supposed to keep arguments on point and without superfluous distractions. Instead, fucking moralists have co-opted it in order to bully and advocate self-censorship. It's fucking disgusting.

                      [–]Satsuz 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I'd just say "censorship" there, if I were you. "Self" implies you're filtering yourself of your own volition. Being bullied into censoring yourself is just censorship.

                      Other than that nitpick, I think you've described the problem beautifully.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                        コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                          コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                            コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                              [–]TrebeksUpperLIp 72ポイント73ポイント  (26子コメント)

                              It is nice to know however that he is up there somewhere smiling down on us.

                              [–]dbmtrx123 76ポイント77ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              The irony of this statement was not lost on me.

                              [–]Fudada 30ポイント31ポイント  (21子コメント)

                              Here's an interesting thought experiment: what exact set of beliefs would allow a person to believe that Christopher Hitchens is in Heaven?

                              [–]weevil_boy 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              Eh, ultimately the question is answered if a god exists that values intellectual curiosity and wants us to put our faculties to the best use possible and be honest with ourselves. Wouldn't be a huge shocker under those circumstances.

                              コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

                                コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (43 返事)

                                    [–]shiner_man 3075ポイント3076ポイント  (1842子コメント)

                                    This supports my theory on why Donald Trump is polling so well. It's not that people actually like him. He's a bombastic ego-maniac. They like the fact that he completely disregards the politically correct police. He doesn't care if people are offended.

                                    People like Trump because he is pushing back against the absurdly politically correct society we've been living in for years. Every week it's another witch hunt against somebody who called a transgender woman "him" or somebody who said "all lives matter" or somebody who dares to claim that Islam isn't very peaceful at this very moment.

                                    Many people have had it with this constant environment of "I'm offended by that so you must stop doing that". Hitchens saw this coming.

                                    [–]GhostRobot55 1015ポイント1016ポイント  (1426子コメント)

                                    You almost have to either tread very lightly or go all in. Its weird how one small gaf from Hilary right now would probably do more damage than the worst thing Trump could say.

                                    Edit: edited for auto correct.

                                    [–]shiner_man 773ポイント774ポイント  (1268子コメント)

                                    It's ironic because it's her side that is mostly responsible for this environment. Modern day "liberals" are only liberal if you agree with them.

                                    [–]rrrakkan 563ポイント564ポイント  (1163子コメント)

                                    They're not really "liberals" at all. I generally call them "progressives."

                                    Genuine liberalism is actually becoming endangered between the forces of "progressivism" and the reaction ("the right.")

                                    [–]NightlyGravy 137ポイント138ポイント  (90子コメント)

                                    Is it just me or is naming your political movement "progressive" sort of egotistical. It assumes everything they suggest/propose is progress forward for all mankind. Conservatives sometimes call themselves "traditional" which I view as much more accurate and humble because sometimes traditions are useful and meaningful and sometimes they are stupid and counter productive.

                                    [–]indeepth0ught 109ポイント110ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                    "We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive."

                                    -- C. S. Lewis

                                    [–]JustinCayce 38ポイント39ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    It isn't just you.

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (80 返事)

                                      [–]pepsivanilla93 448ポイント449ポイント  (1030子コメント)

                                      And progressivism leads to authoritarianism. If you don't agree with Caitlyn Jenner, you're transphobic. If you don't agree with Islam, you're Islamiphobic (spelling?). Feminism, misogynist. It's groupthink and thought crime from 1984, where thought crime isn't punished today through courts, but rather societal consequence.

                                      [–]banhammerred 240ポイント241ポイント  (80子コメント)

                                      Or those campus kangaroo courts

                                      [–]ajustice83 266ポイント267ポイント  (75子コメント)

                                      Like the UCI campus student body voting to remove the American flag because it's not seen as "inclusive enough".

                                      That was quickly overturned when their governing faculty took away their squeaky toy gavel.

                                      [–]cuntdestroyer8000 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Or Oregon State University students and faculty removing all copies and dispensers of the student republican newspaper from campus and into dumpsters.

                                      [–]khegiobridge 102ポイント103ポイント  (54子コメント)

                                      I love how an over 200 year old flag quite suddenly became a symbol of oppression.

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (17 返事)

                                        [–]suspectnumber3 31ポイント32ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        roo-phobic, yeah we know your kind

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                          [–]bagehis 96ポイント97ポイント  (69子コメント)

                                          If you don't agree with Caitlyn Jenner

                                          I couldn't care less about Jenner's sexuality. The only reason it is in the news is to cover over the bad press around the vehicular manslaughter charges.

                                          [–]typhus121 540ポイント541ポイント  (678子コメント)

                                          Look, I hate the PC environment too, but what's there to 'agree with' when it comes to trans people? They're asking to be treated how they want to live; there's no impetus to agree or 'accept' anything, they're just asking not to be treated poorly. Yeah, there's a whole set of vocabulary and acceptable speech you have to adhere to to avoid upsetting certain delicate people, but that's irrelevant. You don't have to accept anything, because it's an issue irrelevant of your acceptance or view of the matter.

                                          When people come out on either side of this issue, I just wonder "Who asked"? Treat people with dignity, and when it comes down to it, don't lecture them about their life. That's literally the only burden that falls on you, it's not a matter of agree or disagree, they have to live their life however feels right. Unless you're actively harassing someone, which you're not, why would anyone even know how you felt about that issue to begin with?

                                          [–]Dashing_Snow 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          There is a difference between respecting trans people and calling a person a hero who was able to transition with basically no financial difficulties and complete the entire process in six months. Oh yeah and said person committed manslaughter. I can respect trans people without considering Jenner to be a hero. For her to get the courage award over the other nominees was a travesty. Now if you want to give it to someone who actually had to struggle to save up the necessary funds and dealt with being in an inbetween state for years that would be different. However even that I don't think necessarily compares to raising money for charity up until your death or running marathons after losing a leg and an arm but that is just my opinion.

                                          [–]Robiticjockey 321ポイント322ポイント  (291子コメント)

                                          The problem is that you're mostly right. We should respect trans (and all) people for who they are, and use proper pronouns, etc. where it becomes problematic is when people with no ill intent mess up, and are publicly shamed or ridiculed, instead of talked with quietly and privately after the fact.

                                          [–]Davethelion 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                          I have tons of trans and gender fluid friends. I mess up the pronouns all the time. Especially when I met them before they started asking to be referred to with different pronouns. But when I'm corrected, I simply apologize and correct myself. Usually, I end up correcting myself without being prompted. I have never been shamed for getting it wrong. Ever.

                                          The people who get shamed are the people who insist on calling gender fluid or trans people by the incorrect pronoun (or, Caitlyn Jenner "Bruce") because they don't seem to "agree," but like /u/typhus121 said, there is nothing to "agree" with. It's just respect for the way Caitlyn Jenner and all trans people want to live and be addressed.

                                          [–]New_Car_Wrecked 154ポイント155ポイント  (84子コメント)

                                          Not to mention that they make up a fucking infinitesimal iota of the population and yet its blasted in front of our face on a daily basis by "progressive" pundits and SJWs that really just want to keep moving the goalpost of what it means to live in an egalitarian society so that they can still justify their pathetic existences.

                                          [–]Zerowantuthri 122ポイント123ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                          It's not just "progressives" (whatever that means).

                                          Every side has its sacred cows. Here is a video of the guys from Top Gear driving around the southern US with cars painted with various inflammatory slogans such as "Country and Western Music is Rubbish".

                                          Far from the southerners respecting their rights to free speech there is a part where the guys look in serious danger of getting the shit kicked out of them.

                                          But of course that is not hypocrisy right? Conservatives just LOVE themselves all the free speech they can get.

                                          My point being is this sort of shit happens from all over the spectrum. It is bullshit and it does suck but it is not something you can only peg to one group.

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (52 返事)

                                            コメントをもっと表示する (198 返事)

                                              [–]RevolutionMe 244ポイント245ポイント  (114子コメント)

                                              Unfortunately, treating people with respect and dignity is no longer sufficient for progressives.

                                              Over the course of my life (I'm 40) I've interacted with a grand total of 2 transgendered people (which makes me wonder why this even such a huge issue, since it barely affects anyone at all). I treated each of them as I would any other person, because my parents raised me right and taught me to be courteous and civil. I used their preferred pronouns, never call them names, and if you asked them, neither would ever say I had ever been anything but polite and civil with them.

                                              But because I don't agree with the claim that Thomas Beattie is the world's first man to get pregnant, or that Caitlyn Jenner (who has enough wealth to overcome any issues) is a hero for coming out transgender, or that the Vagina Monologues is transphobic for assuming women have vaginas, etc. I am transphobic.

                                              Because I don't believe that doping someone with hormones and cutting in the body actually changes their sex, and because I think the word "man" means a person with a Y chromosone, and because I think personal history informs identity, I'm transphobic.

                                              At this point, transphobia has nothing to do with how you treat transsexuals, but rather everything to do with agreeing with a set of non-scientific, inaccurate ideas about gender. It's not how you treat people, but how you think about words and ideas.

                                              That's what I don't agree with, and when these progressive asswipes use the fear of social exclusion to force others into accepting ideas they can't defend rationally, when they bully people into accepting re-definitions of "sex" and "male" and "female", then they go to far.

                                              There are already fringe progressives who will accuse you of being transphobic if you, as a straight man or gay woman, balk at the idea of sucking a dick so long as that dick is attached to someone claiming a female identity.

                                              That's what I disagree with.

                                              [–]stillbatting1000 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              the Vagina Monologues is transphobic for assuming women have vaginas

                                              Holy smokes I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. That was gold. Thank you. Crazy the way the world has become.

                                              At this point, transphobia has nothing to do with how you treat transsexuals, but rather everything to do with agreeing with a set of non-scientific, inaccurate ideas about gender.

                                              Nailed it.

                                              The other day, I saw the term "TERF." I had to look it up. It stands for "Transgender Exclusive Radical Feminist." A radical feminist who does not recognize men who think they're women as women. The fact that there even has to be a term for that is baffling. I had to read the definition a few times to keep track of who is excluding who and why. What a mess the world be in.

                                              コメントをもっと表示する (112 返事)

                                                [–]js10280 153ポイント154ポイント  (163子コメント)

                                                Yeah, there's a whole set of vocabulary and acceptable speech you have to adhere to to avoid upsetting certain delicate people, but that's irrelevant.

                                                It's extremely relevant and that that's Hitchen's point (and Orwell's) precisely. If you control language, you control thought.

                                                [–]AsteriskCGY 58ポイント59ポイント  (157子コメント)

                                                But at some point we made the various racial slurs a bad thing, because of connotations and intent. How is this not the same for trans/gay people as well?

                                                [–]js10280 144ポイント145ポイント  (111子コメント)

                                                As an example, if I find it deeply offensive to be called Cis-anything. I am a heterosexual male, but I object to the term Cis as I believe that it is a slur used by the LGBT community to point out that I am not in their in-group and in fact am an oppressor.

                                                Can I enforce that in any meaningful way?

                                                Edited to add, because /u/8bitorchid is being downvoted:

                                                Just so we're 100% clear. You're telling me how I should feel about what you and others are calling me and you're telling me "trust us, we're not doing anything behind your back even though we've developed a new term for you." In response, I'm dictating to you how you should speak about me just as "you" (not you necessarily) would dictate to me. The parallel should be pretty clear...

                                                Note: what may not have been clear - I don't actually believe that about Cis as a term, but it's demonstrative as counter-example.

                                                Edit 2: Added the "if" in italics because apparently people can't be bothered to read all the way down to where I say I don't actually believe that about the term Cis.

                                                [–]Lildrummerman 44ポイント45ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                Niggerfag

                                                コメントをもっと表示する (24 返事)

                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                    [–]NightlyGravy 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    That sounds all well and good when you generalize. But while the trans community asks for very reasonable things like not being belittled or bullied they also ask for very absurd things. Like doing away with gender simply because a small fraction of the population does not neatly identify with either gender that the vast majority of people identify with. It is also a bit tyrannical when they demand that EVERYONE call them by their desired pronoun or no pronoun at all. This is absurd. First, pronouns are fucking useful 99% of the time. Second, if you have a penis, a Y chromosome and plenty of other male characteristics it is reasonable for someone to think of you as a man despite the fact that you are wearing a dress and heels. I would certainly call such a person by a female pronoun simply to make them happy. But do I actually think of them as a real female? No, because that would be stupid.

                                                    [–]fancyhatman18 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    That's fine, until Jenner gets blasted all over the news constantly for getting a sex change like he/she/it did something impressive. All that happened was a rich person (who ended someone's life by running them over, and raised probably the worst rich family in america) had a few surgeries. That must take so much courage when you're a celebrity and make all of your money from being controversial.

                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (101 返事)

                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (200 返事)

                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (41 返事)

                                                          [–]turbozed 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          The new term for these people is "regressives." Let's take term "liberal" back to apply to people who hold liberal ideas.

                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (102 返事)

                                                            [–]tjciv 170ポイント171ポイント  (121子コメント)

                                                            Yeah, well Hillary is a criminal and should be in jail. So yeah, there's that.

                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (30 返事)

                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (35 返事)

                                                                [–]Fugitivelama 343ポイント344ポイント  (83子コメント)

                                                                This is something I have been discussing with people a lot lately. I don't get offended easily but if I do, I simply walk away, turn the page, change the channel, or close the website.

                                                                Why do people think that when something offends them they have the right to dictate change onto society and other people? It's crazy. So what if your damn feelings got hurt, get the fuck over it and move on.

                                                                Recently there was a big deal about student groups disallowing comedic performances on their campuses because they were offended by the comedians material. Like WTF? If you are offended by their material , don't buy a ticket.....it's really that simple. No instead they created a student union group that worked to makes sure those acts never came to their school. This is a form of censorship, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to stop others from enjoying it. Just because something offends you doesn't mean you have to project that onto others.

                                                                [–]TOGTFO 45ポイント46ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                It's not that they're so precious they can't handle it, they get a huge ego boost and rush from making people do what they want. It's bullying in every sense, but they put it under the disguise of triggers and being politically correct.

                                                                My sister-in-law is a 30 something student - social studies or some bullshit - and has used the triggers thing to try and win arguments by shutting them down. As a "strong empowered woman" she constantly cries, claims normal conversations can emotionally cripple her if they're about something she doesn't like/agree with.

                                                                I've seen her smirk when my wife takes her side and tries to comfort her. I've made it a rule she isn't allowed alone with our kids or to look after them. I don't want my kids being taught that toxic bullshit and I've caught her trying it with my daughter.

                                                                [–]e2hawkeye 128ポイント129ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                                Your freedom of speech/expression/opinion stops where my feelings begin!

                                                                [–]btreg 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                Reminds me of having a militant gluten-free person over for Thanksgiving dinner. I asked you to pass the dinner rolls; I didn't ask for a lecture on how I'm killing my colon or whatever. If you don't eat wheat, just pass the rolls and shut up. It doesn't matter if your dietary restriction is for medical or ideological reasons.

                                                                [–]scrantonic1ty 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Recently there was a big deal about student groups disallowing comedic performances on their campuses because they were offended by the comedians material.

                                                                And that's a massive shame because Universities have traditionally been a place where radicalism and offensiveness is fostered and encouraged.

                                                                You're supposed to go to University and immerse yourself in different worldviews and have your thinking challenged.

                                                                [–]PlayerTP 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                I agree with you 100%. I also feel like 90% of people are just being 'peer pressured' into being offended. Like they arent really offended, but they feel like they need to be to fit in.

                                                                [–]NightOfTheLivingHam 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Why do people think that when something offends them they have the right to dictate change onto society and other people? It's crazy. So what if your damn feelings got hurt, get the fuck over it and move on.

                                                                Entitled, ego centric individuals who were raised up with "everyone gets a trophy" and were never told "no" growing up as it might "hurt their self confidence!"

                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (41 返事)

                                                                  [–]Alexthespaceman 233ポイント234ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                  Gervais once said something very nice, which was "just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right"

                                                                  very true

                                                                  [–]scythecow 80ポイント81ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                  I agree 100%. Good people are being caught up in witch hunts for one cathartic joke or one statement taken out of context.  PC culture is infuriating and distorts or outright prevents real debate, because the mere exploration of an unpopular or misunderstood opinion can be career and social suicide. Trump is pretty refreshing among this nonsense. So is Bernie Sanders, in a less bombastic way.

                                                                  People are too scared to talk about real issues when misinformed character assassinations can be so effective in response. Like being labeled a freedom hating terrorist if you didn't support the Iraq invasion back when everyone was jumping on board, and losing all of your credibility as a result. Dissent was quashed.

                                                                  The difficult and important debate over facts disappears when one side controls the narrative and wins the PR campaign. As a people, we created the disingenuous, cowardly politics of today with our pure, unmitigated ignorance.

                                                                  The world is offensive, and painful, and we all have to be strong enough to face it to be good citizens of the world who contribute to society. Trigger warnings are inherently toxic, for instance.

                                                                  Anyway, I still probably couldn't vote for Trump because of some of his policy positions. But that's just me.

                                                                  TLDR the reaction should be, "I'm offended by that, so we need to have a real, honest debate about it." Everything worth discussion offends someone, and we can't cater to that without creating a culture of ignorance.

                                                                  [–]infogulch 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  Your TL;DR resonates with me:

                                                                  Everything worth discussion offends someone, and we can't cater to that without creating a culture of ignorance.

                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                                    [–]N4N4KI 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    A big problem is that what is offensive means different things to different people and to different degrees, the threshold changes from person to person and topic to topic.

                                                                    What are we as a society meant to do to satisfy the cry to maintain a fully PC society?
                                                                    Find the person that is most offended by topic X and use them as a litmus test for how we should act? Then repeat the process for topic Y and Z and so on.

                                                                    That's a horribly restrictive place to live, having everyone walking on eggshells for every topic is funny at first and then just sad.

                                                                    [–]conquer69 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    The thing is that some people are not offended but they pretend to be to exert power over others or push an agenda.

                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (301 返事)

                                                                      [–]dog_in_the_vent 269ポイント270ポイント  (133子コメント)

                                                                      So if I went on reddit and said nice things about Kim Davis, would the downvotes I would receive be considered speech suppression?

                                                                      [–]Darknessyouroldfrien 286ポイント287ポイント  (39子コメント)

                                                                      What are you talking about?! Reddit only downvotes things that don't add to the discussion, not stuff they don't agree with or like! If you lay out a well-made argument then everyone will upvote it regardless of whether they agree! Right?

                                                                      [–]kevinrocks 37ポイント38ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                      It hugely depends on what sub you are in as well. The defaults have awful one-sided conversations usually.

                                                                      [–]Darknessyouroldfrien 42ポイント43ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                      Yeah, the majority of mainstream reddit is 50% giant echo-chamber, 50% le dank maymays.

                                                                      [–]New_Car_Wrecked 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      Honestly in the defaults it's more like a swarm that generally moves towards the left, but occasionally someone articulates something well enough that hits a nerve and the swarm shifts views for a moment.

                                                                      [–]vecnyj 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      It depends on the thread most of all. Some threads will be pro Israel, others will be anti Israel, some a little conservative, others very liberal.

                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                        [–]ChocolateAmerican 34ポイント35ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                        I had to read this twice to confirm it was sarcasm.

                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (18 返事)

                                                                          [–]Zlibservacratican 34ポイント35ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                          Well, first you have to find something nice to say about Kim Davis. If you somehow get to that point, let us know how it goes.

                                                                          [–]IVOLUMESI 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                          I thought that we were all on board that Kim Davis is an amazing beautiful woman who had the exquisite bravery of a butterfly flying against the wind bro

                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

                                                                            [–]desultr 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            If you went on reddit and said nice things about Kim Davis and people started reporting your comment and asking you/the mods to removed it, then I would say it is speech suppression. But just downvotes will not remove your comment, it may lower its rank/visibility but people will still be able to view/access it.

                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (70 返事)

                                                                              [–]KadabraJuices[S] 992ポイント993ポイント  (920子コメント)

                                                                              I've been watching Sam Harris deal with this exact issue for the past year now. It's astonishing to me that someone who modulates their speech so painstakingly and articulately can be misunderstood and misrepresented by progressives. It's as if what he says doesn't matter because they know his true thoughts and intentions.

                                                                              This storm has built to such ludicrous degrees that even Sam's colleague, Maajid Nawaz, who happens to be a Muslim, is slandered in blatant racist rhetoric for the association with Sam by the same progressives who accuse Sam of racism. It is absurd. We're entering a truly bizarre era.

                                                                              [–]BSscience 90ポイント91ポイント  (90子コメント)

                                                                              Relevant Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz debate discussion of the book they wrote together.

                                                                              [–]punt_the_dog_0 146ポイント147ポイント  (81子コメント)

                                                                              Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60

                                                                              Sam Harris on Bill Maher with a bunch of other random people, including Ben Affleck, who we all know is just a goddamn philosophical genius.

                                                                              Affleck represents everything that is wrong with the PC brigade in this video. Harris and Maher bring up perfectly legitimate talking points in order to try and discuss important ideas, and all Affleck does is cover his ears and yell "YOU GUYS ARE RACIST!". It's really quite infuriating.

                                                                              [–]fairly_bookish 78ポイント79ポイント  (44子コメント)

                                                                              I was blown away by how ignorant Ben Affleck came off in that interview.

                                                                              It's one thing to accuse Harris of being bigoted toward Muslims. I don't think that he is, but I can understand the reactionary leap that people make to get there. It's a reaction to the actual bigotry displayed by radical conservatives, which liberals naturally want to defend against. But them (some of them) take it too far. They don't understand the difference between respecting someone's freedom of belief, and respecting the beliefs themselves.

                                                                              What I don't understand at all is the "racist" comment. Does Ben Affleck think that Islam is a race...?

                                                                              [–]Umbristopheles 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              What I don't understand at all is the "racist" comment. Does Ben Affleck think that Islam is a race...?

                                                                              He's using the term "racism" as a synonym for "bigotry" which is ignorant in and of itself.

                                                                              [–]ctindel 39ポイント40ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                                                              Of course he's ignorant he's a Hollywood celebrity trying to argue with people who do real research and write books about this shit.

                                                                              [–]vecnyj 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                              Even worse was how many people agreed with Affleck the next day.

                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                                                                                [–]zarnovich 26ポイント27ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                Agreed. It shocks me how many people I've seen on line falling on Ben Aflec's side. Sam Harris was rather generous and impressively on point with his arguments. It was kind of a sad beautiful display of how much rational arguments don't matter on these issues. Dawkins has some good responses on this topic as well. Theism my be weakening on the home front, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is being replaced with rationality.

                                                                                [–]arMadizzle 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                He talks about it at length in his podcast with Dan Carlin. There's a lot of nuance required to talk about these matters, and we live in such a kneejerk reactionary society that most people stick their fingers in the ear whenever the subject gets difficult.

                                                                                [–]9243552 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                As a side point, it has been pointed out that Affleck was quite possibly on steroids for his upcoming role as Batman, which might explain the aggression.

                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (27 返事)

                                                                                    [–]Eats_a_lot_of_yogurt 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Saw this video the other day. It's more of a discussion of the book they wrote together, not really a debate.

                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                                                                      [–]TanikaTubman 52ポイント53ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                                                      Harris' insight is exceeded only by his composure. I'm a huge fan. His first two books shifted my world view.

                                                                                      [–]carlidew 10ポイント11ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                                      I read them in somewhat opposite order: Waking Up, Free Will, End of Faith. Strangely, it wasn't until his small section on meditation in End of Faith that I really, physically understood what he meant by "there is no self." Despite digesting all of Waking Up, it only took one sentence in End of Faith for me to a experience a non-drug-induced ego death. It was the weirdest and most enlightening thing that I think has ever happened to me.

                                                                                      The man is a genius of temperance and philosophy. I try to maintain a distance so as not to become an unquestioning fanatic, but I love his mind, I love his podcast, and I would read anything he writes.

                                                                                      [–]The_Mike_Goldberg 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                      The End of Faith is one of the most well written arguments that I've ever read. It's alarming how many of my overly-educated peers don't bother reading or studying the arguments against their personal worldview. They decide what they believe and become offended when their ideas and morals aren't reflected in others. Many people, Like Affleck, simply put their fingers in their ears and detract against those who want to have a perfectly legitimate discussion.

                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (18 返事)

                                                                                        [–]PixyFreakingStix 751ポイント752ポイント  (527子コメント)

                                                                                        I'm a huge Sam Harris fan, and a feminist and probably an "SJW" too, but we're not entering anything. It's always been like that.

                                                                                        It's been communism, it's been atheism, it's been "nigger-lovers," it's happened on both sides, by conservatives and liberals alike. The only reason it seems to be happening more often is because more people are able to communicate their views.

                                                                                        Edit: And if you haven't noticed on Reddit, getting called an SJW or a Tumblrina or a feminazi for voicing an opinion on any of these topics is really common. It's the same thing.

                                                                                        Sam Harris' positions take a lot of nuance and careful thinking to understand. It doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative; people hate nuance and they hate thinking carefully about things.

                                                                                        [–]TheDigitalRuler 394ポイント395ポイント  (45子コメント)

                                                                                        It doesn't matter if you're liberal or conservative; people hate nuance and they hate thinking carefully about things.

                                                                                        Great point. So many people just want to see every issue as black and white and refuse to even consider the possibility that there could be some grey in between.

                                                                                        [–]Definitely_Working 138ポイント139ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                                                                        i run into this problem all the time, because i consistently like to debate about the grey parts, even if i side more with one side of the other i usually argue the specifics to try and encourage a bit of perspective shifting. its awful though, because when you do that, whoever you are talking too will plant you firmly on the other side and argue against you like you just called their mother a whore.

                                                                                        people dont like to think about issues most of the time, and they dont want to discuss them, they like to be on a side, to argue (not debate), and have that side win. they really dont care what you say unless you say you agree with them and dont elaborate any more that.

                                                                                        i cant tell you how many times ive been grouped into an argument with a side i dont believe in simply for presenting facts or different perspectives. i hardly ever pick a side, but they always shove me to one.

                                                                                        [–]ZaphodBeelzebub 56ポイント57ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                        Now, are you just arguing this stuff in every single conversation with people? Because that just gets really tiring and annoying to deal with for a lot of people. There has got to be a balance.

                                                                                        [–]KushDingies 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                        Are you saying there's a gray area between arguing all the time and never debating people?

                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                                                                                          [–]Gilthanass 47ポイント48ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          Here's the problem, there are stages to moral/intellectual development, and different people are caught on different stages. (there are many philosophers who have their own stages/definitions, but I'm lazy and I'm just going to make some shit up).

                                                                                          1) Dualism/black and white thinking

                                                                                          People in this stage view everything as being either right, or wrong. This isn't just an opinion to them, it is the way the world works. Maybe a creator has established right and wrong, or maybe it's just intrinsic to the universe, but they truly believe that every question has a right and a wrong answer. For those people, saying something like "Hitler was a great public speaker" is anathema, because Hitler is WRONG, so he can't be RIGHT at anything. Basically, for these people you either agree with them, or you are wrong (and usually a bad person, since you believe something that is morally bad).

                                                                                          2) Moral Relativism (I'm just making these names up as I go)

                                                                                          These people have broken through from the black/white thinking, and their eyes have been opened! The problem is, they see so much grey that they have become overwhelmed. At this point, there IS no right and wrong AT ALL. Everything is just a shade of grey, and every shade of grey is equally as right as any other. These are the people you debate against, who will bring up things like "that's just your opinion" constantly. To them, each opinion is equally valid, so why are you bothering to present arguments? They believe vaccines cause autism, you don't, end of discussion. They also tend to defend things like child sex in other cultures, since "who's to say our culture is better than theirs".

                                                                                          3) Moral valuation

                                                                                          These are the people who have gone through relativism, and realized at the end of the day, every opinion isn't equally valid. Basically, they can understand that just because there is no right and wrong written in stone, that doesn't mean that every shade of grey is equally right or wrong. They are more comfortable debating the grey points, because they know not only that there is some ambiguity, but that ambiguity doesn't automatically mean every option is equally correct.

                                                                                          [–]modblot 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                          I worked in politics for a while at a campaign consulting firm. One of the most-talked-about strategies was wedge issues. Getting people to take sides over issues that force people to 1 direction or another gets more people to vote. If you can paint the other candidate running for office as a devil, you get more support. It's a terrible psychological trick used to win elections without thinking about the overall affect it has on the general population over time.

                                                                                          [–]ohnoao 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          That term really describes what i've been thinking about our current political climate and voters. I don't know if there's always been such a great divide between parties and its constituents, but it seems like Republicans and Democrats are defined by these wedge issues: Gay rights, gun laws, healthcare, abortion, military influence. I think foreign policy is more of a mixed bag, but the others are like a clean split.

                                                                                          I'm not sure if it's always been like this and it's completely natural or not, as i'm fairly young, only voted in 2 presidential elections so far. It's not a surprise there's issues like this, but it seems to have defined our current political climate. I've been wondering if it's voters that have heavily focused on these wedge issues and the politicians are following suit or if it's the opposite where politicians have forced us into these two sides to easily appeal to their supporters.

                                                                                          Due to this, there seems to be less productive debates and more attacking of the other side. One reason it really feels that way is because so much is said online where it's easier to simply shoot down people's opinions and party affiliation. These are interesting times. I'd love to hear from someone that's been around a bit longer and ask if politics have evolved in this way or if it's felt like this for a long time.

                                                                                          [–]SeeisforComedy 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          This happens to me on a regular basis. Glad I'm not alone.

                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (14 返事)

                                                                                            [–]inyourgenes 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                            Well I believe that gray should be spelled gray, and that is clearly black and white. I refuse to consider the grey possibility.

                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (481 返事)

                                                                                                [–]rcglinsk 32ポイント33ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                                                I think it's an example of the same sort of phenomena which brought about the Cultural Revolution in China:

                                                                                                Explaining the Cultural Revolution: signalling arms races as bad fiat currency

                                                                                                It's long as all hell but an incredibly interesting read.

                                                                                                As applied here, something so crass as calling Nawaz a bigot is simply over the top signaling. If you're willing to do that it shows just how incredibly loyal to PC ideology you are.

                                                                                                /u/Shinso_ posted this above:

                                                                                                I just don't understand the fetish of protecting Islam for the "left". It pretty much flies in the face of everything else they believe. They are polar opposite on: abortion, women's rights, blacks, gays and more.

                                                                                                The explanation is the following: who is more loyal to the ideology, the one who says "OK they're an oppressed minority, sure, and we definitely need to look out for unfair abuse, but man do they deserve a lot of this criticism" or the one who is willing to call that person a bigot?

                                                                                                [–]Drop_ 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                David Auerbach had an article on a similar topic, touching on what you mentioned in your last paragraph.

                                                                                                [–]nicethingyoucanthave 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                I'm still reading it, but it's very interesting so far. There's a quote by Theodore Dalrymple that is related:

                                                                                                In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is...in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.

                                                                                                The willingness to submit oneself to humiliation and to openly profess lies is certainly one form of the signaling that the article describes.

                                                                                                [–]Tsegen 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                I'm reading Robert Cialdini's Influence and he talks about how the Chinese were so much more effective at propaganda than the North Koreans, and it was partly because they got people (American captives) to freely repeat some propaganda critical of America (even if not wholly in support of China).

                                                                                                It had the effect of making it impossible for them to distance themselves from the act. If you do something like that freely-and not for reward- you start seeing yourself as the sort of person who does that.

                                                                                                Apparently writing is quite effective at this. If you write stuff you cannot help but "own" the words in some way. You can't hide, you can't blame someone else when your words are referenced.

                                                                                                Not quite the same as what that quote says but a pretty interesting idea. At some point I plan to go back and read the full book he was referencing.

                                                                                                [–]wilfoy 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                Oh man, Life at the Bottom is such a great read. Dalrymple has an exceptional way with words.

                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (242 返事)

                                                                                                      [–]AmnesiaCane 165ポイント166ポイント  (76子コメント)

                                                                                                      I feel like I really don't have nearly as much trouble not being offensive as a lot of people do. I treat everyone with respect and apologize if I unintentionally offend someone.

                                                                                                      [–]f_regrain 90ポイント91ポイント  (51子コメント)

                                                                                                      That usually works. I get the feeling a lot of the people in here crying about being called bigots are actually bigots. I just saw one guy and decided to look in his history, it was filled with comments calling people "angry muslims" because they were saying he was an idiot. There was no evidence they were muslim...its like so easy to not offend people if you have a little bit of tact and say "oh apologies" if you do say something bigoted. Then again most of these people have the self awareness of a rock...

                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (24 返事)

                                                                                                        [–]phogna_bologna 139ポイント140ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                                                                        It's also important to remember that Hitchens was highly critical of all religion, not just Islam...

                                                                                                        [–]IcyDefiance 120ポイント121ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                                                                        The fact that people need to emphasize that is part of the problem.

                                                                                                        [–]BaaBaaBlahBlah 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                        It's funny how these days he'd be automatically accused of being 'edgy' or posted into r/im14andthisisdeep to be mocked by redditors with superiority complexes.

                                                                                                        Strange how the hivemind turned on people with that argument.

                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (21 返事)

                                                                                                          [–]Justinjustus 256ポイント257ポイント  (36子コメント)

                                                                                                          Fucking hypocrites. This place is absolutely FILLED with the same people he describes. Yet everyone now acts like they are not like that.

                                                                                                          [–]Ruxini 67ポイント68ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                                          you do of course realize that Reddit has 36 million users, and that people of different persuasions will flock to different posts, creating these echo-chambers we see?

                                                                                                          [–]3rd_degree_burn 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                          My personal biggest pet peeve is people on reddit talking as if reddit is a single person.

                                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (26 返事)

                                                                                                              [–]kogasapls 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                              Really? He predicted McCarthyism several decades too late? Impressive.

                                                                                                              [–]LaszloKovacs 69ポイント70ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                                                              In this video he is only speaking about how people are not able to be critical of Islam without being labeled a racist. And yet somehow reddit has made this into a much broader statement on political correctness as a whole. Im so sorry that you can't just say anything you feel like and have people just let it go. Asking people to be tolerant of others is not political correctness, It's just part of being a decent human being.

                                                                                                              [–]Never_Been_On_Reddit 456ポイント457ポイント  (332子コメント)

                                                                                                              If you don't agree with the group think, you're immediately labeled a bigot or a racist. It's a blanket response that attacks someone's character and tries to invalidate their argument, while at the same time gaining support to attack the "bigot".

                                                                                                              [–]Saotik 746ポイント747ポイント  (169子コメント)

                                                                                                              At the same time, this argument is being used by actual bigots and racists who now say absolutely repugnant things and accuse anyone who criticizes their views as being PC thought police.

                                                                                                              [–]Never_Been_On_Reddit 238ポイント239ポイント  (107子コメント)

                                                                                                              I agree, but that's what happens when society dilutes the definition of racism. When half of a society is labeled as racist, it polarizes people and puts them into categories. All of a sudden, someone who critiques Islam is just as bad as that fuck who shot up the church.

                                                                                                              [–]AnMatamaiticeoirRua 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                              And if you've never seen that happen, then I'd wager you've /u/Never_Been_On_Reddit

                                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (60 返事)

                                                                                                                [–]Svorky 171ポイント172ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                                                                Like "SJW" or "SRS". But reddit is above these tactics of course.

                                                                                                                [–]damendred 69ポイント70ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                HEY, that's totally different!

                                                                                                                We're the dissenting voice that calls people on this stuff for the good of society so that...shit.

                                                                                                                [–]awry_lynx 39ポイント40ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                THANK YOU. People who on one hand will be like "hey, don't call people racist when they aren't racist, you're diluting the definition! This guy isn't bigoted just because you don't agree with what he says and he might be somewhat 'offensive'!" will turn around the next moment and rant at someone for being a "SJW feminazi" and excuse it by saying "well THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE"... exactly what people accusing other people of racism think.

                                                                                                                [–]dopestep 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                No one is arguing that you shouldn't ever label anyone for any reason. If someone is being a racist go ahead and call them a racist. What needs to stop is people being called racist for things that aren't racist. If someone is being an SJW I see no problem with someone calling them an SJW.

                                                                                                                Look at it this way, if you call me a racist for not agreeing with Black Lives Matter as a political movement, people are going to assume I hate black people. That's what racist means. You would be misusing the word because I don't hate black people..... If you call someone an SJW for claiming that people need to be held accountable for their microaggressions, that is an accurate label. Worrying about microaggressions falls under the umbrella of something that SJW's support. That person is being an SJW by definition.

                                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (145 返事)

                                                                                                                      [–]Aieoshekai 96ポイント97ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                                                      (1) This speech offers no prediction of anything, and certainly does not describe the "current social climate" in any degree of specificity or detail.

                                                                                                                      (2) This is generic criticism of the tension between freedom of speech and politeness/manners/political correctness. Six years ago, the ideas expressed in this speech were at least 200 years old.

                                                                                                                      How the hell did this make the front page? Are people just upvoting the grossly inaccurate title without watching the video?

                                                                                                                      Edit: (3) If the social culture is to not make ignorant, rash assumptions about an entire religion or culture with no rational basis for doing so, then it's not exactly "oppression" to label those who "talk outside the script" as bigots. If you assume Islam is violent, you know less than nothing about Islam. You are at best a hair away from bigotry, and very clearly expressing prejudice formed in ignorance.

                                                                                                                      [–]fireglz 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Content creators are sick of this shit too.

                                                                                                                      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lus5J4vYMNg

                                                                                                                      [–]hagakure1 117ポイント118ポイント  (76子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Not true, as an asian male I probably encounter racist comments towards me about once every two months by white/black/hispanic people. I live in one of the most populous supposedly 'liberal' cities in the world. I don't see any marches or news segments about that. Seems like everybody cares about racism except when it's against asians.

                                                                                                                      [–]merlinfire 90ポイント91ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Asians, especially successful Asians, are too white to fall under that protection. Sorry bro, you're one of us.

                                                                                                                      https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/29/how-the-asians-became-white/

                                                                                                                      [–]plaidbread 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                                      Everyone should watch the movie Better Luck Tomorrow. If "white privilege" exists, not only does Asian privilege also exist it's arguably stronger than white privilege.

                                                                                                                      [–]Urbanscuba 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                      It's really actually kind of a strange situation because Asians were just as oppressed as every other minority in America when they originally came, but they kept forming supportive communities and working their asses off while investing in their children.

                                                                                                                      Now they get made fun of for being so successful and it's ok to make fun of them for being Asian because they pulled themselves out of poverty.

                                                                                                                      God forbid you ever point to them as a positive example though, then you're oppressing the other minorities.

                                                                                                                      Huge amount of respect for the American-Asian communities.

                                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                                                                                                                        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                                                                                                          [–]Mexagon 51ポイント52ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                                          You're making a mistake assuming "liberal" cities are not rife with racism.

                                                                                                                          [–]Kapindo 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                                          This is a case of "tragedy is when it happens to me or people I care about, but it's comedy when it happens to you." So many people, especially apparent on internet forums, justify bullying of others based on their phenotype identity as "having fun" or "free speech". My point is: white, black, yellow, purple people believe that some group or the other is "oppressing" them, but no one is willing to see how the other is suffering. Go and read Reddit links that have black people as main topic and see what I am saying.

                                                                                                                          [–]babybacklogic 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                                          Yes its odd how self-righteous "liberals" seem to not care about Asians. Current affirmative action policies harm Asians, and more specifically Asian females more than anyone else. I guess Asians don't count as a minority though since they are generally succesful

                                                                                                                          コメントをもっと表示する (51 返事)

                                                                                                                            [–]Joe-Totale 65ポイント66ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                                                            In defence of political correctness, Stuart Lee

                                                                                                                            [–]ShitCommentBelow 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                                            Political correctness is very admirable in principal and pretty necessary for a developed multicultural nation. It's hard not to get behind the idea of respecting your fellow man. But when it's used by sensationalists to smear and twist the words of those they disagree with it, it becomes more of a hindrance than a help.

                                                                                                                            How many public figures have to painstakingly check what they say, lest their words get spun and 'exposed' as hatred? It's a juvenile and silly state of affairs when most people are more concerned with catching others when they trip up, than actually trying to understand what others are saying.

                                                                                                                            コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

                                                                                                                              [–]FromLAtoLA 73ポイント74ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                                                                                              The thing that I hate hate hate is the idea that you can't say anything without "Offending someone"

                                                                                                                              Instead...you can't say anything without opening yourself to Criticism...I have no earthly idea when anyone that criticized you was automatically "Offended" but that's REALLY where we are now. You can say something stupid and the second anyone points that out...all you need to do is point at them and say that they are "too easily offended" as opposed to refuting any salient points they may have made.

                                                                                                                              [–]I_Am_Anti_Magic 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                              Alexis De Toquville observed the social climate of speech suppression by the willing social majority like, two hundred fucking years ago. This isn't and hasn't ever been a new thing. He even worries for the future of the US because of this, despite being a huge fan of democracy.

                                                                                                                              [–]asmulaabas 339ポイント340ポイント x3 (179子コメント)

                                                                                                                              I really don't understand this. Every time I turn on the tv someone is drawing the prophet for no reason other than to offend Muslims. Every time I turn on the tv someone is protesting outside a mosque while armed to the teeth. Every time I turn on the tv some presidential candidate is saying Muslims shouldn't be president. A poll in Iowa showed that only 49% of republicans think Islam should be allowed in the United States. Who's afraid of criticizing Islam? What, Reza Asian tweeting some smart ass comments to Sam Harris and suddenly your rights are taken away? Oh no some irrelevant nobody from salon or slate or the huffington post called so and so a bigot, oh shit, all our rights are gone we can't criticize Islam anymore.

                                                                                                                              [–]kwiztas 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                                              What channels do you watch? Because in the USA they wouldn't even show the charlie hebdo comics.

                                                                                                                              [–]smuggla 182ポイント183ポイント  (74子コメント)

                                                                                                                              islam is the most critisized religion in the past 10 years or so, and everyone on this forum is like, "yeah they're taking away our rights of freedom of speech."

                                                                                                                              [–]AMACP_Oatmeal 165ポイント166ポイント  (41子コメント)

                                                                                                                              That is because almost nobody here knows what it is like to truly be oppressed.

                                                                                                                              [–]SJewsticeWarrior 116ポイント117ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                                                                                              Listen, ok, sure, trans people, gay people, Muslims, black people and all those other minorities have been marginalzied, beaten and killed for centuries, and still are today. But for the past five years or so, if I make shitty jokes about them on the internet then people with sometimes tell me they're shitty.

                                                                                                                              So can we just take a minute to appreciate who the real victim is here!?

                                                                                                                              コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

                                                                                                                                コメントをもっと表示する (32 返事)

                                                                                                                                  コメントをもっと表示する (103 返事)

                                                                                                                                    [–]rottengymshorts 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                                    Maybe for the general public but for professions such as comedians and radio DJ's and even television hosts, its been going on for decades.

                                                                                                                                    [–]James_Locke 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                                                    Reddit is at the fore front of this.

                                                                                                                                    [–]youareallfuckingdaft 152ポイント153ポイント  (63子コメント)

                                                                                                                                    ITT: Every post saying we're not allowed to talk about the thing that everyone in this thread is talking about

                                                                                                                                    [–]doyle871 175ポイント176ポイント  (47子コメント)

                                                                                                                                    Talking on an anonymous forum isn't the same as being able to talk about things in day to day life.

                                                                                                                                    After Charlie Hebdo attacks my office had the Muslims all basically justifying the attacks with "I don't agree with their actions but if you don't want a reaction don't mock our religion"

                                                                                                                                    You could see all the non Muslims looking pissed off but terrified of speaking out as they knew any argument would lead to them losing their job.

                                                                                                                                    Also being told no England flags or tops on St Georges day as its racist but no issue for St Patrick's day.

                                                                                                                                    This is just a couple there's tons more.

                                                                                                                                    We've just had infamous SJW's speak at the UN claiming that disagreeing with them or calling their opinion dishonest is just as much harassment as physical threats of violence.

                                                                                                                                    [–]FaceStealer 69ポイント70ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                                                    Everyone thinks they are being persecuted. It's pretty weird.

                                                                                                                                    コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                                                                                                                                      コメントをもっと表示する (1543 返事)