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Proposing "Throwback Thursdays" (self.kpop)

JessiTee여자친구[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

Hey /r/kpop,

While some members of the subreddit are certainly enjoying this latest wave of "Throwback" posts, the mods are a little wary of having the front page flooded with older MVs. It's gotten to the point where some users were reporting the throwback posts in annoyance and complaining to the mods about it.

To compromise, I'd like to propose that we do Throwback Thursdays, where a sticked thread is posted every Thursday for people to talk about their favorite older K-pop songs and groups. That way we can still have a place to have that discussion and feel the nostalgia without bumping down newer, more relevant content off the front page.

If an older song or performance has never been posted before and you'd like to share it outside of the throwback thread, you can still do so, just flair it with [MV]. [Audio], [Live] as necessary and include the date at the end of the title if you'd like to clarify that it's an older music video or song.

I'd like to get feedback from you all before implementing this, so please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

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[–]-momoyome-WA$$UP 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

Can we declare what throwback is? I just don't consider 2012 as throwback. Maybe we can have weekly themes for different years.

[–]texanwillEXID 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, i agree with this--disallowing 2011+ would have cut the number of throwback posts by nearly half. Maybe a 4 year cutoff or something like that is a good compromise during the specified throwback day?

[–]picflute특수한 눈송이 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Or a "BEST OF 20XX" theme every week

[–]texanwillEXID [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I appreciate you working with us here, but that's too limiting. What if I happen across an old favorite--I am happy to wait until Thursday, but I'll have long forgotten if we're 10 weeks away from "2008" again. Which will kill the throwbacks entirely. I mean, this "flood" that's being dealt with here is what, ten vids-all from different years? Here's what I personally would do:

1: All throwbacks must be posted during "Throwback Thursday".

2: Post must be 4+ years old. (As I said earlier, this cuts out almost half of what was posted yesterday & takes care of a lot of this problem)

3: Post must appropriately be labeled with year and [Throwback] as per JessiTee's OP above.

3: Limit 2 posts per user/week.

Do that & I think everybody is happy--or at least satisfied.

[–]af-fx-tionf(x) 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with this. It would prevent newer songs from showing up and allowing the "throwbacks" to be more uniform.

[–]seveeK∆SPER 35ポイント36ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes pls, this throwback spam is getting quite annoying.

[–]WanGon1 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can we do the same for "PSA: X Group is now on Spotify/Apple Music!"

[–]mostinterestingtrollMINO 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could've sworn there was some weekly Spotify update thread. Maybe it died out? Combining that with Apple Music as a general music streaming update would work well.

[–]joythewizardDavichi 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someone started a weekly Spotify thread a few months ago but idk where that went

[–]4minutesleftIU 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, definitely. I feel like people are just throwing old favourites out there for extra karma. :/

[–]theangrycamel少女時代 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. Especially since in kpop people tend to use "era" to describe each comeback, very soon we'll just see throwbacks from a couple of eras ago

[–]sage4394minute 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is a neat idea. My only real problem with the throwback posts is that, sometimes they weren't actually tagged [Throwback] and if I didn't know the group very well I got confused and thought they had a new song out.

Otherwise though it didn't bother me. But a Throwback Thursday thread could also work very well, if it prevents posts that aren't tagged properly out there confusing people like me.

[–]mostinterestingtrollMINO 20ポイント21ポイント  (25子コメント)

If anything, this sub is cluttered with BTS, Seventeen, and recently some Red Velvet videos, where anything they do at all is posted on here.

The throwback posts are nice and should remain. Throwing them under a thread kills all discussion of them. If I see a thread for a throwback song that I like, I will click and comment. If I see a thread solely dedicated to throwbacks, I'm less likely to discuss.

While consolidation of BTS/Seventeen/RV posts would help a lot more. Or those oddly specific posts could just stay in their own groups' subreddit. Fans would still be subscribed and discussing and nothing of value is lost.

[–]chiefjustinceWonder Girls 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tbh, i second this idea.

The throwback posts don't really bother me. And for me, new contents on this sub are hard to come by. Most of the time, I find myself refreshing the "new" section and sometimes be disappointed because only one or no content is added.

[–]texanwillEXID 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with this idea. Look, it's not that I don't love the new stuff too, but I've been listening to kpop since the 90s and it's been really nice to see old favorites that predate this subreddit and have never been seen here. I'm fine with limiting them to a day but just to a single thread? Seems excessive when you've got (hide version)(seek version)(eye contact or whatever version) of the same song each getting their own thread on the same day.

[–]DarlaDimpleAMAAOA 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Idk because BTS/Seventeen/RV are all pretty popular? I don't really see a total inundation of those groups but I am seeing A Lot of throwback posts. Like 7 of the posts on just the first page are just throwbacks, and I can totally see where that'd be annoying.

I'm okay with the throwback thursday thread being a thing. :)

[–]mostinterestingtrollMINO 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well they're on the first page because people are interested in discussing those specific songs. Forcing all throwbacks into one thread kills discussion of them.

[–]vlewitusApeace 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

What discussion? Most of these throwback posts don't even have more than 5 comments.

[–]mostinterestingtrollMINO 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The discussion as seen in the EXID one. Not all [Throwback] posts will have a lot of discussion or even be seen on the frontpage, just as not all Teasers and MVs are discussed/frontpage worthy. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and if discussion has happened (as in the EXID thread), then these Throwback posts are worth keeping.

[–]JessiTee여자친구[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (18子コメント)

Those groups are active and producing plenty of new content, though, which is why they come up so often. We try to remove anything that's too "fluffy" or irrelevant (although we are considering allowing more of this content as long as it is tagged properly). I think if a group is actively promoting and the content is relevant then it does belong here.

[–]mostinterestingtrollMINO 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's fine, but I still don't think the sub should be exclusive to "new content" with older songs thrown into a separate thread.

If it stimulates discussion and is properly tagged as a [ThrowBack], then there's really no harm in them imo.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation 1ポイント2ポイント  (16子コメント)

We try to remove anything that's too "fluffy" or irrelevant

Why? This is stuff the userbase obviously wants to see. Honestly I'm sick of things I want to see getting removed, if I don't want to see it, I won't click on it, or downvote.

[–]NewbieSone기센레디터 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Honestly I'm sick of things I want to see getting removed, if I don't want to see it, I won't click on it, or downvote.

/r/kpop isn't your personal blog feed tuned specifically to your palate.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Well then go tell that to the other hundreds of people who either upvote or comment on various "fluff" submissions.

/r/kpop isn't YOUR pet project where you can let your ego run wild, it isn't a place where you should feel entitled to power trip so don't talk to me about my personal wants. If I have something I want to see, I'll see it on my own volition, I only post things here so other people can see it too. Other people do the same thing, surprisingly enough and if I don't want to see it, I'll downvote and move on. If I do want to see it, I'll look at it, maybe comment, maybe upvote. It seems like other people do much the same thing.

But noooooooooooo, we won't have that. All these poor people who are FORCED to look at K-pop related fluff, I sympathize greatly, how will they ever manage? So many videos of opening pitches, fancams, discussions, it really is a tragedy that our userbase is FORCED to look at it and FORCED to participate.

Oh wait, that isn't the case at all.

I see a lot of things on here that I don't want to see, but actually I have some empathy and consideration, and realize that hey, other people might want to see it. I mean I have very little in most boy groups but I'm not about to downvote their MVs, their live stages just because of MY preferences. But yeah, keep talking about how I'm the one being selfish, or something? I don't know. I mean, I just thought this subreddit was the place to talk about K-pop related things but clearly I must be mistaken on a number of levels.

[–]vlewitusApeace 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're taking this waaaaay too personally, dude.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

No I'm not, if they want to continue this trend they have every right in the world to do so. I just think it limits discussion, limits the spread of K-pop, limits interest in it and is just a pointless waste of time and energy.

[–]NewbieSone기센레디터 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Our moderation policy aims at preserving the quality and utility of the subreddit for both current and future subscribers. You may be fine with wading through fluff and ignoring or downvoting it, but for many other users, the signal-to-noise ratio in the new queue is a deciding factor in returning to the subreddit for further visits. We get told all the time that /r/kpop is interesting because it dispenses with fluff vs. other news outlets, and offers a higher-quality discussion stream than other English-language discussion forums. Since those other outlets and forums exist as an alternative to /r/kpop I think the subreddit is a unique proposition worth preserving, and enhancing the community as a whole. Try getting an AMA on your Tumblr sexy GIF blog some time.

The problem with low-quality submissions is also that they generally inspire imitation. If something gets posted that's highly available (say, a random short idol pinup fancam as you like to submit them apparently - there's a subreddit for that, BTW) one instance of it will beget a dozen others, and because that has a trickle-down effect on audience demographics, the upvote/downvote system isn't enough to stem the tide and prevent altering the nature of the place over time.

Now, I agree that the nature of the place should be up to the subscribers, so moderation policy should be something we make decisions on together. That's why we have State of the Subreddit threads where we can take a long-term view into both the past and the future, and have a real dialog about what we as a community think is working, or not. But those battles can't be fought in every individual submission.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I'm not talking about MY submissions, most of my submissions are MVs, lives or variety shows so don't even go there.

You talk a big talk about "fluff" but there is still a great deal of fluff on the subreddit. Really it's the inconsistent moderation that is annoying, especially when VIDEOS are removed but articles from AKP, Soompi, Koreaboo, whatever, AND tweets are considered worthy. If they're self-posts with a good summary of the information, fine. But right now there's stuff about U-Kiss, some eventual variety appearance, and the ROK Army's favorite girl group, I mean really. I personally don't mind it but if you're going to talk about "fluff," that's fluff.

I just don't like seeing interesting videos removed, and I'm not talking about amateur compliations, amateur remixes and what-not where you could make a case for them to not be on the subreddit. I'm talking about more or less first party clips.

The problem with low-quality submissions is also that they generally inspire imitation. If something gets posted that's highly available (say, a random short idol pinup fancam as you like to submit them apparently - there's a subreddit for that, BTW) one instance of it will beget a dozen others, and because that has a trickle-down effect on audience demographics, the upvote/downvote system isn't enough to stem the tide and prevent altering the nature of the place over time.

I'm not in favor of fancam spamming either so I won't complain about this too much, but even so, some notable fancams are still getting removed. If it's a high quality, one off fancam of a specific performance, that is also highly upvoted then it should stay. I think the userbase is more than capable of downvoting spam, your allegation that this subreddit will become a fancam haven is unfounded, as of right now.

Now, I agree that the nature of the place should be up to the subscribers, so moderation policy should be something we make decisions on together. That's why we have State of the Subreddit threads where we can take a long-term view into both the past and the future, and have a real dialog about what we as a community think is working, or not. But those battles can't be fought in every individual submission.

Yeah well I'm giving my thoughts now but it isn't exactly helpful when submissions are just removed outright without a chance for the userbase to say whether or not they want it removed. That's MY biggest concern, since you're just deleting submissions, HIGHLY UPVOTED SUBMISSIONS, willy nilly. As a counterpoint, on the APink subreddit, where I submit a lot of subbed videos (instead of on /r/kpop) the mods actually posted first "hey btw we have a new format for titles, could you do that in the future" and I don't have any problem with that. They didn't just get rid of upvoted submissions.

[–]NewbieSone기센레디터 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

videos vs. other content

We remove lower-quality article submissions, random tweets and so on with a similar frequency to video submissions. I'm not sure why you think video media are automatically more substantial than other forms of media.

your allegation that this subreddit will become a fancam haven is unfounded, as of right now.

If you need a precedent demonstrating the mechanic I talked about you can think back to the time when we policy on discussion posts was loosened for some time.

As a counterpoint, on the APink subreddit, where I submit a lot of subbed videos (instead of on /r/kpop[1] ) the mods actually posted first

The submission title rules haven't changed in years. You're still mistaken that the removal you're salty about was due to an unannounced rule change -- as I explained previously in the modmail correspondence you opened.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because they are? They show new and occasionally novel shit, first hand?

If you need a precedent demonstrating the mechanic I talked about you can think back to the time when we policy on discussion posts was loosened for some time.

I don't really remember this alleged dark time, besides discussions are different from fancams. At least discussions occasionally lead to...discussions.

The submission title rules haven't changed in years. You're still mistaken that the removal you're salty about was due to an unannounced rule change -- as I explained previously in the modmail correspondence you opened.

Yeah well like I said inconsistent moderation didn't help in that regard, I'm not mistaken about anything. I just don't think it should have been removed in the first place.

[–]NewbieSone기센레디터 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't really remember this alleged dark time

Allowing more simple discussion hooks lead to a lot of discussion submissions that followed the general pattern of "let's take this previous discussion title and alter it slightly", and a lot of boring threads that were overly familiar to more seasoned kpop fans. And since the conversion period from newbie to season fan is very brief, it implied a shorter span of engagement with the subreddit (i.e. it makes it less interesting more quickly).

This is a recent example, but /r/kpop also has a rule-less past where, e.g. during the SNSD The Boys era, the front page was mostly SNSD individual member photocards and SNSD GIFs. I'd suggest a frontpage and new queue that's 80% SNSD isn't the best /r/kpop can be, and somehow the option to downvote content didn't prevent it from being that all the same.

Interesting. It's almost as if subreddits have moderators for a reason and moderation is part of the site as much as the downvote button is.

I just don't think it should have been removed in the first place.

I think it shouldn't have been submitted with a title violating the rules in the first place, since it was really nice content.

[–]sindork_Underwater Squad 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

/r/kpop isn't YOUR pet project where you can let your ego run wild, it isn't a place where you should feel entitled to power trip so don't talk to me about my personal wants.

He actually can. The mods have all the power to operate the sub as they see fit. They can take the community's input, but have no impulse to act on it.

Other people do the same thing, surprisingly enough and if I don't want to see it, I'll downvote and move on.

Don't downvote just because you don't like something. You're half the problem with reddit.

But noooooooooooo, we won't have that. All these poor people who are FORCED to look at K-pop related fluff, I sympathize greatly, how will they ever manage? So many videos of opening pitches, fancams, discussions, it really is a tragedy that our userbase is FORCED to look at it and FORCED to participate.

Actually they are forced to see it. It covers the front page. There is no variety. Variety fosters discussion. Discussion fosters good communities.

The mods aren't removing throwbacks. They're trying to stop the flood that overwhelms all other content on the sub. Stop going on tirades just because everything doesn't go your way. All you do is bitch about the mods and it's getting very tiring.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

He actually can. The mods have all the power to operate the sub as they see fit. They can take the community's input, but have no impulse to act on it.

Yeah well if you think that an individual mod, or even a few mods have the final say versus hundreds if not thousands of subscribers I don't know what to say really. It's a little backwards.

Don't downvote just because you don't like something. You're half the problem with reddit.

That was just an example, I don't actually downvote submissions unless they're blatantly spam or useless, the point is submissions should be regulated by the userbase to a large degree, provided of course the content is relevant to the subject. K-pop is pretty broad in that regard. And I'm not half the problem with reddit. Half the problem with reddit is rampant sexism and racism but I won't get into that. If people are downvoting because they don't like something, well, what can I say, majoritarianism ain't perfect. I personally prefer a system where instead of RELEVANT submissions getting removed, I can look at them myself and determine whether or not I personally want to see them.

The mods aren't removing throwbacks. They're trying to stop the flood that overwhelms all other content on the sub. Stop going on tirades just because everything doesn't go your way. All you do is bitch about the mods and it's getting very tiring.

I'm not even talking about that, although I don't think mods should remove throwbacks at all, unless they're recent reposts or particularly low video/sound quality. Variety? What are you even talking about. All other content? What are you even talking about. I want to see more discussion. I want to see more submissions where there is something to discuss. But I also don't mind seeing a little lighthearted entertainment once in a while, which is the point of K-pop after all.

Stop going on tirades just because everything doesn't go your way. All you do is bitch about the mods and it's getting very tiring.

Please. Enough. I submit pertinent content regularly, comment and try to foster discussion, I also take a stand when people (in K-pop or the community) say problematic shit. Acting as if I ONLY complain about the mods is just patently untrue, I'm complaining NOW because this is the topic for discussion. Otherwise I'm just talking about regular K-pop.

Plus, at the end of the day if the mods want to make it so the only things on this subreddit are contemporary MVs, lives and variety shows I'll still be here. I just think it makes K-pop a lot less entertaining when we can't see or talk about the so-called "fluff."

[–]NewbieSone기센레디터 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Half the problem with reddit is rampant sexism

... how does that jibe with submitting fancams of kpop artists being reduced to eyecandy to a music subreddit, by the way?

We do try to make sure /r/kpop doesn't become an off-putting /r/kpinups, and I think the census results - /r/kpop is a lot more gender-balanced than reddit as a whole is - indicate a success in that regard.

[–]CronoDroidGirls' Generation [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Please. Don't even go there when you yourself have submitted photos to /r/kpics. How you gonna reconcile that? I don't think you need to but don't cast stones now.

There have been many books written about sexual objectification and the poor portrayal of women in the media but I am not about to go into that, I have neither the time, inclination or authority to speak on that. Needless to say though that appreciating women for their appearance does not necessarily mean you're sexist, and it isn't as if I only consider women objects designed to please my pee-pee.

Let's face it, K-pop has a great deal of sexualization but participating in it and/or consuming it does not necessarily make one sexist. As long as you are cognizant of the larger issues.

I'm very appreciative that /r/kpop isn't like the many places on the internet where boys are boys and female idols only exist to be ogled at but don't even level those accusations at me. You're just derailing.

[–]picflute특수한 눈송이 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

No it's not. Don't speak for the user base when you don't represent it fully. This subreddit isn't a catch all it's for general korean pop music take the fluff to the artists subreddit.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]NewbieSone기센레디터[M] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't be mean.

    [–]2milks 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, I support this idea.

    [–]pshpsh9Red Velvet 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wasn't really annoyed by the throwback posts, but this is a great idea. I approve!

    [–]toyaqueenBTS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I would actually limit the Throwback posts to Thursdays, but not restricted to one thread. That is anyone can post older MVs but only on Thursdays

    [–]NokelGod Daewoong 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Why don't we have Modern Mondays for new songs instead?

    Let's be honest, this subreddit isn't exactly overflowing with content. I don't see the problem with throwback posts.

    [–]seveeK∆SPER 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because this is a filtered portal for news and new songs for most users.

    [–]ebosherf(x) 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    But multiple songs come out every week. The majority of stuff posted here is recent stuff.

    [–]NokelGod Daewoong 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    And there are multiple songs from the past that nobody hears anymore that I like finding out about on here. What's your point?

    [–]ebosherf(x) 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm responding to your 'Modern Mondays' idea. No one is gonna want to wait a week to talk about a new release.

    As for throwback stuff, it's pretty easy to find most of these songs just by looking at related results on youtube or from threads where people talk about their favourite old songs. Having tons of throwback threads at the same time is annoying now.

    [–]NokelGod Daewoong 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I was being sarcastic about Modern Mondays

    [–]greleetusYounha 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sounds like a great idea. I liked the throwback MVs but it did feel a bit too clutter-y.

    [–]jerkryf(x) 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think this is a good idea. But i still think this sub lacks in diversity (and the throwback posts kinda changed that for a minute or two). I wish group subreddits were more active so things such as random interview segments and the uncountable number of dance practice videos wouldn't be all over /r/kpop.

    [–]4minutesleftIU [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I think the mods want /r/kpopslumberparty to be more discussion based and this subreddit to be more content based. The problem is the lack of diversity at the moment. I don't care for a lot of the current kpop idol groups at the moment and thus find myself coming here less and less because, like you said, I don't want to watch 3 dance mvs or groups on variety shows I'm not interested in.