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MediaHulkenberg hits Massa (gfycat.com)

Valtteri BottasBottasWMR が 投稿

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Jenson ButtonGrazeous 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

Gif of Hulk climbing out of the smoking car please? (The one from behind, looked kinda cool with the lights and all)

[–]Valtteri BottasBottasWMR[S] 51ポイント52ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://gfycat.com/ThoughtfulWeeklyGyrfalcon

[–]Michael SchumacherAusrufepunkt 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Well that's it for today"

[–]Nico HülkenbergLord_Iggy 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That'll look cool on the race edit.

[–]Valtteri BottasBottasWMR[S] 45ポイント46ポイント  (1子コメント)

Alternate angle:

https://gfycat.com/WaryDelayedIriomotecat

Onboard:

https://gfycat.com/GracefulKeenBee

Slow-mo:

https://gfycat.com/FabulousHardBilby

[–]Lewis Hamiltonelmz370 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

After seeing these different points of view you can understand why they both blame one another.

[–]Daniel RicciardoRawrrrrrrrrr 140ポイント141ポイント  (10子コメント)

The problem is it's a terrible pit exit, you shouldn't have to change your line on a corner to let people out from the pits like that but either way giving him a grid penalty just doesn't make sense for me.

[–]Raikkonen716 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

Agree. I was playing F1 2015 yesterday and was just thinking "damn, this pit exit is terrible, somebody will crash here someday". That day was very close.

[–]polarsken 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Maybe it's a bit trickier here because of the rapid changes in direction prior to this corner, but in theory it's not that different at most circuits. Pitted drivers have to rejoin somewhere, and more often than not they rejoin the track on the inside line for the next corner.

[–]hellcat_uk 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thinking through the season, most circuits exit either on the inside of the exit of T1, onto the straight, or onto the outside of the exit of T1. Very few are that close into the entrance. At circuits with them going into T1 (eg. Monza) there is a decent amount of straight before T1.

[–]BAR Hondamcroft 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The Monaco pit exit is similar, but there drivers are guided literally inside the corner so they only rejoin on the straight.

I would assume that layout wouldn't be possible here?

[–]Fernando AlonsoStealthstriker 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The pit is such that it guides them past turn 1, but I don't think there is sufficent space for the pit lane to extend past turn 3.

[–]Rjasd 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes if Massa was merging in this way because he went off track by his own mistake would Hulk be at fault?- I don't think so. The track creates this bad situation for the driver who is going at race pace

[–]Daniel Ricciardoscozzie 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doesn't mean you should say "fuck it, I'm staying on my line and I'm just going to make contact with him".

He admitted he saw him coming out of the pits, yet made no attempt to leave ANY room? GTFO....

[–]baldgyesaccwashacked 42ポイント43ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have to say I thought it was a racing incident like Brundle was saying, until I heard the interview with Nico where he said he could see him exiting the pits... imo if he saw him coming out he should have been able to work out that the apex would have been tight and left some room. But the 3 place grid penalty still seems too harsh

[–]Brawn GPKsanti 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention he kept saying he was hit from behind - no he wasn't. Nico swiped across his front, Massa had no way to react to that. He was hit about 2/3 of the way up his left.

It might not be entirely on Nico as he clearly didn't realise just how far up Massa was alongside him, but it's certainly on the combination of Force India and Nico. Massa came out of the pits and wasn't diving or anything, and when they collided it's not like Massa could slam on the brakes they were already mid corner.

[–]Romain Grosjeandieomesieptoch 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. Being in front or not, he couldhave definitely worked out that this line he took was going to be problematic.

[–]FerrariHouseOfBounce 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

On point today, Bottas.

[–]Mika HäkkinenSimB5 54ポイント55ポイント  (1子コメント)

I love Massa's hand wave can almost hear him saying 'great job you idiot'

[–]Williamsgavingav1 34ポイント35ポイント  (11子コメント)

massa has nowhere to go on track, he comes out of the pits and keeps as far left as he can, where did nico think massa was going to go ?

[–]Felipe MassaGoldenIvan 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

ya i don't understand the anti-massa argument either. He has nowhere to go.

Easy to understand what both drivers are doing here, this is a weighty moment of the race for both of them. Massa cannot yield there, and it is very difficult mentally and physically for Hulk to do so either.

I think the penalty is maybe a bit harsh, but the braying against Massa is beyond mystery to me. No comprende. This sub often confounds me though, I can barely believe what I am reading here half the time.

[–]TGSDoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

He's on the pit exit, so you could make the point that he's the one that should have slowed down more.

I don't think this one is on Massa though. The pit exit is poorly designed and it was bound to happen on day.

[–]Valtteri Bottasgaslipstick 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

He's on the pit exit, so you could make the point that he's the one that should have slowed down more.

No you cant. He has same rights to fight for that position then Hulk has.

[–]TGSDoc -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, he was half a car behind Hulkenberg, so it wasn't his position.

[–]Kevin MagnussenKroonRacing 58ポイント59ポイント  (7子コメント)

Last year at Hockenheim: "I was in front, I was doing the corner in front of him," said Massa. "If anyone needs to watch, it is the car behind."

[–]Jules Bianchii_need_a_pee 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would be interesting to see that incident again to see if it's in any way similar. My memory isn't good enough to to remember stuff like that.

[–]drunkf1fan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

On another forum I said exactly this, Hulk did what Massa has time and time again while blaming the car behind. I wondered how he would blame Hulk while maintaining he was correct every time he's turned into the car on his inside... which is a lot of times.

If Hockenheim was when he turned in on Magnussen and flipped himself over, it was 100% Massa's fault. In that situation(wherever it was) 4-5 other pairs of cars went through turn 1 on the start side by side none of the 'outside' cars cut to the inside of the corner. Massa was the only car to do this and decided because the car ahead was on the inside if he let them go and cut in it was fine... even if a car was there. Apparently it was Magnussen's fault for being where Massa wanted to be.

[–]Renaultkunta-kinte 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

So has Massa publically complained about this accident yet? Did he blame Hulkenberg? This makes it sound like he has.

[–]Jenson ButtonRiv4L 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

He said that he was braking for the corner and Hulk turned in on him, leaving him nowhere to go.

http://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/singaporegrandprix

[–]Renaultkunta-kinte 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah so he was already doing all the braking he could do and Hulkenberg ran into him. That's what I would expect. Massa didn't say it was Hulkenberg's fault at all. He just said he couldn't brake any more and Hulkenberg ran into him at the corner. There's just a lot of Massa hate around here and it's mostly because he's the only one that always shares his opinion on difficult subjects.

[–]Jenson ButtonGrazeous -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has not. He probably realised that it wasn't that much of Hulks fault. Also why would he, his car barely recieved a scratch!

[–]Valtteri Bottasxtroreddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's almost like every driver in the world is a hypocritical asshole or something!

[–]illyndor 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Aside from who was at fault, Hulk had the possibility to not crash into Massa and still be in the race. He passes Massa on pit exit and should be able to still see the Williams next to his head. Running into someone because you are right is just stupid.

[–]Lewis Hamiltong1344304 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Running into someone because you are right is just stupid"

Especially when you are wrong

[–]Max VerstappenSweeply 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

3 place penalty... A bit harsh in my opinion.

[–]Walter Wolfsilvoslaf 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Racing incident.

[–]Kimi Räikkönenr3ynoldswrap 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Massa was already under braking for the corner. He couldn't slow down more in order to make space. Hulk could have left that space open and made the pass. At the very least, he'd have the inside line for the next corner. Very uncharacteristic overaggressive move from Hulkenberg.

[–]tlux95 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not Hulks fault that Massa was already braking due to his more acute angle of approach to the corner.

Gives more weight to the argument that hulk had the racing line and it was his corner.

[–]Kimi Räikkönenr3ynoldswrap 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

To avoid the collision, Hulk could have steered less. Massa could not slow down anymore than he was already. When Massa began braking he appeared to be farther up the road. It would have been quite difficult for him to anticipate the need to brake earlier. I'm more of a Hulk fan but he made a rare mistake.

[–]Mika Häkkinen332i 59ポイント60ポイント  (120子コメント)

It is up to the driver coming out of the pits to re-enter safely. It is an actual rule, not just courtesy. F1 gave Hulk the penalty - fucking stupid decision. Hulk was on and had the racing line. Massa tried to create room that didn't exist and then gets mad at hulk. Wtf?

The race control lights on Massa's steering wheel were flashing blue because Hulk was right there, too. But he ignored them. He ignored the blue flag and he ignored the blue safety lights that face the driver at the pit exit. Hulk was ahead by a few feet and Massa was rejoining the track, hence massa got the blue flag.

This is directly from F1's website. Blue flag - "To let the faster car overtake. Pass three blue flags without complying and the driver risks being penalised. Blue lights are also displayed at the end of the pit lane when the pit exit is open and a car on track is approaching." Enough said. The blue lights and flags are not just for lapped traffic. Massa was pissed that Williams fucked up another one of his pit stops and thought he should have come out ahead of Hulk...so he just made his one way to get ahead.

[–]Mika HäkkinenSimB5 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

Could Massa even see him?! He didn't cross the white line and was entering the track what else could he do?

[–]btc_spectro 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's also my opinion, driver exiting pit can't see cars coming while Hulk clearly saw him. You can see Massa locking up as soon as he saw Hulk but it was too late to avoid the collision.

I think the stewards might have discussed this kind of situation with the drivers on an pre-race meeting hence the penalty to Hulk.

[–]Lewis Hamiltonrobbersdog49 30ポイント31ポイント  (27子コメント)

Massa entered safely. They didn't hit until the apex of the corner after the pit exit. By that point they're racing. Hulk couldn't expect a car just to disappear.

The stewards agree.

[–]Nico Hülkenbergpoopellar 95ポイント96ポイント  (41子コメント)

Massa was on the inside with Hulk right next to him. How can he try and create room?. IMO Hulk took the racing line without giving room to Massa. Only other place he could have gone was off track Or slow down right after he exited the pits.

[–]Jules Bianchibowhunter001 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

From the 2015 F1 Sporting Regulations:

"39.1 During the race, drivers leaving the pit lane may only do so when the light at the end of the pit lane is green and on their own responsibility. A marshal with a blue flag and/or a flashing blue light, will also warn the driver if cars are approaching on the track."

and

"20.6 As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not allow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate that he must allow the following driver to overtake."

Nowhere does it say that the blue flag/light at the pit exit indicates that a driver must allow the car behind to pass. Download the regs and see for yourself.

[–]polarsken 15ポイント16ポイント  (15子コメント)

How on earth is this dumb post upvoted so much? It explains its reasoning with an explanation for blue flags in a battle for position!

[–]Valtteri Bottasgaslipstick -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just shows how shit this sub has gotten. Tbh every user blaming Massa for that incident should be banned. It would make this sub a better place instantly.

[–]MercedesArumin 21ポイント22ポイント  (14子コメント)

Yeah totally! It's not like Massa can stop at the middle of the track or put half his car trough the wall right?

[–]Ayrton SennaAlexMk7 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The only blue lights I see on Massa's steering wheel are the rev indicators, which ones are you talking about?

[–]Kimi RäikkönenPascalwb 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

he reentered safely, but Hulk just closed the door and didn't left any space.

[–]maaaahtin 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

As soon as he passes the SC line he's out of the pits, and then racing with Hulk with a decent overlap. Hulk should have left the space he would have given to any car that far alongside

[–]Jenson ButtonImZephyr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure Hulk had no idea Massa was there.

[–]Valtteri Bottasgaslipstick -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is this comment so highly voted? You are wrong in basically every area and then u proceed to suggest that Massa did this on purpose?! Jesus christ the Hulk bias is getting ridiculous.

[–]Nico Hülkenbergpoopellar 28ポイント29ポイント  (10子コメント)

Hulk's fault.

[–]user1342 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hulk's fault.

yup. I'm frankly staggered by the amount of "Massa hit Hulk" comments here. Hulk saw Massa leaving the pit and deliberately drove into him. Got off lightly in my opinion.

[–]Felipe NasrFredNasr 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Don't even think Hulk could see him, and he was on the racing line. Massa went for a space that was never going to exist by the time he got to the corner. I would say it was a clumsy racing incident.

[–]BMW SauberApex-Nebula 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

hulk just said on sky he saw him coming out of the pitlane and that "he was in front". Doesn't sound like he's taking the blame.

[–]Nico Hülkenbergpoopellar 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

He saw Massa come out of the pits (just told Natalie), he was slightly in front so thought he was entitled to the corner, but Massa had only one line to take as he was almost side by side to Hulk. Only other option I think is if Massa braked which I think nobody would have done. So Hulk took the corner without giving enough room. Even if Massa braked then, Hulk would have still hit him with the angle he took. My opinion.

[–]Attempt12 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, that's a naive statement if I've ever heard one. For Massa to avoid contact there he would've had to brake hard or hit the wall.

[–]Sebastian VettelStayGold1850 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

I feel like over the years I've developed a good sense of when an incident is one drivers fault over another's. But I simply do not understand how the majority of people are backing Massa on this one. When you come back on the racing line from the pit lane, and you not even for a second ahead of the guy on track, do not fucking come on the track and just expect that the racing line is yours to take. And a three place grid penalty for Hulk before he even made it into the pits is outrageous. Maybe I'm missing something, it's kind of a shit exit to be honest, but I'm seeing this in a completely different light than most here. Confused.

[–]McLarenFlyboy_6cm 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not a question of how far he is ahead or where he came from. From the marshal's perspective it is the responsibility of the overtaking car to give space to the car that they are overtaking. At the point Massa had exited the pits he was ahead of Hulk on track, and even though he was only ahead by a small amount they are considered to be racing as normal at that point. Since Massa had the inside line going into the corner it is up to Hulk to make sure to give space and do his best to avoid a collision. He instead cut down on Massa and did not give him any chance of staying on track and racing for the position. It is of course not as simple as that but to argue the finer points of the ruling would take a very long writeup.

[–]Red BullTand85 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

the problem with your argument is that Massa is behind Hulk by the end of the white line. Go watch the alternative gif by BottasWMR where it shows it. If Massa was going even a few miles slower outta the pits then the accident wouldnt have occurred. That being said your prob right on with the marshals perspective comment. Still a shitty situation brought on by a crappily designed pit exit

[–]HeskethDrKronin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Massa is behind Hulk by the end of the white line

True, but the usual question isn't who's ahead. Generally speaking, if a part of the inside car is alongside (and, therefore, visible from) the driver's position of the outside car at the leading car's turn-in point, then the outside car must allow space on the inside. Under normal circumstances, Massa would undoubtedly have every right to the inside line. I'm less clear on F1's rules regarding pit exit, though. I would assume that things are back to normal at the line, but I could be wrong.

[–]Lewis Hamiltong1344304 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It wasn't the racing line, it was a tight inside line straight to the apex as it was his only line to take. Hulk took the racing line causing the collision, rather than taking a wider line to leave space for both cars. He can't expect a car exiting the pits that he is racing with to yield. Should have left room and he still would have ended up ahead.

[–]Ayrton Sennaamidoes 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Imo this is a retarded decision. If anything Massa should get the penalty but I would settle it as a racing incident. The car coming out of the pits must be careful in his re-entry. You can't just try to go into a corner just because you are slightly ahead. Or this happens.

[–]MasterFubar 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

The car coming out of the pits must be careful in his re-entry

That's why the white line is there. After the line ends he's in the race.

I think it was the Hulk's fault and I think the punishment was just right, not too easy and not too hard either.

[–]tlux95 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agree 100%.

Massa was leaving the pits, should have given way.

For everyone saying he was out of the pits and was racing Hulk, then he's guilty of dive-bombing the apex because hulk had racing line AND was in front.

Choose one or the other. Both Massa's fault.

[–]Ayrton Sennaamidoes -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, Massa cut into Hulk's line.

[–]Valtteri Bottasgaslipstick 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't just try to go into a corner just because you are slightly ahead. Or this happens.

Thats exactly why Hulk got the penalty for this. It was 100% on him, Massa did nothing wrong.

[–]Valtteri Bottaschumppi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Racing incident. I don't think there's no need to give grid penalties. Hulk misjudged the situation and didn't leave enough room. Even like one meter would've been enough and it wouldn't have compromised his position.

[–]Daniel Ricciardojaythespacehound 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly I think Massa took a reasonable line into the corner and the hulk just didn't see him. Racing incident in my book. Penalty is harsh

[–]Ferrarisuperfastjellyfish29 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hulk DID see him, he said so himself

[–]Frothyogreloins 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That force India is really good looking

[–]Kamui KobayashiManor_McHonda 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Massa had now where to go, Hulkenberg was keeping the racing line. I think it's ridiculous to penalize Hulkenberg and it should have been a racing incident especially as it only really caused Hulk to retired. Maybe the FIA should have a look at a redesign for the pit exit?

[–]McLarenStreelydan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hulk should have left space, Massa should have yielded because he is joining the track. Should have been a called a racing incident

[–]TGSDoc -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

All I see is Hulkenberg in front of Massa by half a car. Plus, Massa was on the pit exit.

Totally unbeleivable that there's a penality on Hulkenberg for that.

[–]Lendentorpedo -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Common. It's questionable whose fault it was but giving Hülkenberg a penalty too? That's too hard.

[–]FerrariRoIIerBaII -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I still don't understand the decision.

And the fact they didn't talk to the drivers before taking it baffles me.

[–]Nico HülkenbergisKeku -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why didn't they decide it after the race, asking both drivers about their view. Three place grid penalty is just bullshit, binning the race should be penalty enough.

[–]Williamsgavingav1 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

but he just didnt bin his race, he severly affected massa's race too, i think that is the logic behind the penalty

[–]Red BullTand85 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only problem with that was that massa was still running decently when the penalty was handed out. Accident was on lap 20 hulk got his penalty on lap 23, massa retired due to gear selection problems on lap 30.

[–]Nico HülkenbergisKeku -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm with you if it would be obviously his fault. But it was a race incident. Both drivers were to blame. They should ask them about their point of view after the race and decide then.

[–]Ayrton Sennanastychild -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

After watching all the angles numerous times, Massa locks up before the hit. Maybe he assumes that s inevitable at that time.

Also after the accident I was watching how the other cars were taking the that corner and still not sure whose fault is.

[–]MJDiAmore -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like Massa hits Hulkenberg. Cars exiting the pit must yield. The exit is 90% of the problem but the fault is still Massa's. There are rules for a reason.

We have unsafe release rules in pit lane... This is an unsafe track reentry. No difference whatsoever.

If anyone should have been penalized it should have been Massa.