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BadEconomics Discussion Thread, 26 September 2015 (self.badeconomics)

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[–]laboreconomist3favorite words: labor, unemployment, trade 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

Can we refrain from labeling normative statements as badeconomics? I'm surprised the antipapal thread didn't get linked to enough libertarian spam or one of the other metasubreddits.

If I say I want to eat the poor, that's not bad economics. If I say we should eat the poor because I value that from a society, that still isn't bad economics. However, if I say eating the poor will cause gdp growth through increased productivity that is bad economics.

If I say we should help the poor, again not bad economics. I can say people shouldn't be greedy and shouldn't scalp free tickets without any problems. The minute I say that free lotteries are an efficient way to allocate scarce seating then I've crossed into the realm of badecon.

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The antipope thread generated great discussion

[–]Tiakoneo-mercantilist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ctrl+f "Avignon" no results found

smh

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's like there's this huge and awesome palace there and then they can't be bothered to finish the bridge across the street in 700 years.

I call Avignon BadEconomics.

[–]a_s_h_e_nA stable currency, like bitcoin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

to be fair, comments called it out

[–]irondeepbicycleI got 99 problems but technological unemployment ain't one 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was my thread so I feel I should defend it.

Can we refrain from labeling normative statements as badeconomics?

I don't think I did this. I pointed out the implicit values behind a statement that poor people should not resell tickets, i.e. that hearing the pope speak is more worth the time of literally every poor person than buying groceries or paying rent.

Maybe the Pope was right! But to evaluate the right-ness of the statement, the implicit tradeoffs need to made explicit, which is what I tried to do.

Is it narcissistic to state that I'm so important that literally everybody is better off if they hear me talk than they would be if they bought groceries? Yes.

Is it badecon? The Vatican created a scarce resource (tickets to see the Pope) and chose an inefficient method of distributing it to achieve their goals (to allow New Yorkers of modest means to see the Pope). How is it not?

Really, I don't recall people disagreeing with me on the economics of it.

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

So as I've mentionned before, a teacher of mine is trying out a new class this semester, and it basically goes like this:

Read published paper as homework => teacher R1's the paper => next paper

If you people want, I can lay out the papers and his R1 in posts for the sub

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, please!

[–]UltSomnia 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

So I dropped real analysis. Guess I can't be a micro theorist anymore.

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You can't really be a micro theorist unless you go to grad school in one of the top 30 in any case, as far as I understand

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't really be a micro theorist unless you go to grad school in one of the top 3

FTFY

[–]UltSomnia 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What's the point of micro theory when we have prax?

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Purveying lies.

Real analysis is a misnomer; the only way to analyze real things is to prax them out.

[–]MoneyChurchChairman of the Kennywood Park Central Bank 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Why do economists tend to support a carbon tax instead of cap and trade? To my understanding, the main difference is that with a carbon tax, the regulatory authority has to pick the optimal price of carbon while with cap and trade, it has to pick the optimal quantity of carbon. Either option runs into a Hayekian knowledge problem. And I can't imagine that transaction costs would be a significant problem for cap and trade to reach an optimal allocation if carbon rights are traded like other securities.

That said, I know very little about environmental economics.

[–]say_wot_againConfirmed for Google bigwig 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

To set the carbon tax, one only needs to know the marginal social cost of more carbon pollution. To set the cap and trade limit, one needs to know the level of carbon pollution at which marginal social cost equals marginal social benefit, which implicitly requires knowing both marginal social cost and marginal social benefit.

[–]MoneyChurchChairman of the Kennywood Park Central Bank 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

OK, that makes sense. Thanks!

[–]wumbotarianmodeled as if Noah Smith was a can opener 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

To set the carbon tax, one only needs to know the marginal social cost of more carbon pollution.

Which is incredibly hard if firms don't have homogenous pollution generation functions.

To set the cap and trade limit, one needs to know the level of carbon pollution at which marginal social cost equals marginal social benefit, which implicitly requires knowing both marginal social cost and marginal social benefit.

I don't see how this is true. You should only need to know marginal benefit.

[–]alexhoyerI used to bullseye Keynesians in my T-16 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Frankly of I think economists would be happy if the public discourse even came to center around the pros and cons of each approach. I don't think one is overwhelmingly superior to the other frankly, by taxes are probably easier to calibrate and would require less overhead/monitoring.

[–]gorbachev 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait, what? I missed the memo on economists being pro carbon tax and anti cap n trade.

[–]MoneyChurchChairman of the Kennywood Park Central Bank 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess I got the impression from economists forming a Pigou club rather than a Coase club.

[–]gorbachev 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think it's accurate to say cap n trade is unfavored. Lots of support since it allows the emissions reductions to occur more efficiently than a carbon tax would.

[–]Tiakoneo-mercantilist 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since I am using BE as my political discussion forum, I want to field a question: has any candidate made any substantial statement on foreign policy? Clinton was a fairly successful Secretary of State, and in practice her policies are unlikely to differ in a major way from Obama, which is on balance a pretty good thing. And we can look at Sanders' voting record and see that he is, more or less, a standard democrat in these matters. But the Republicans are a black hole of knowledge. The only substantial statements I can find are by Rubio, who is fairly boilerplate (support Israel, reclose Havana embassy, alienate Iran, show Putin we are tough by adding more targeted sanctions). Bush has shown he is either painfully ignorant or shockingly apathetic towards foreign policy. And the rest, somehow, are worse. I don't need candidates who speak Mandarin, but at least one who has read a few Foreign Affairs articles.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

New books on my shelf:

  • Cormen et al, Introduction to Algorithms.
  • Chong and Zak, An Introduction to Optimization.
  • Nocedal and Wright, Numerical Optimization.
  • Burden and Faires, Numerical Analysis.
  • Demmel, Applied Numerical Linear Algebra.
  • Ruud, Introduction to Classical Econometric Theory.
  • White, Asymptotic Theory for Econometricians.

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh man, I definitely want to get CLRS

[–]ReallyLegitX 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you can put up with a .pdf you can get it here.

[–]VodkaHazereligion+gvt=economics 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That'll be my third textbook as a printed pdf in a binder.

My library is getting ugly as hell.

EDIT: CLRS is 1300 pages; looks like it'll be a few binders

[–]Kelsig 0ポイント1ポイント  (18子コメント)

What music do y'all listen to?

Edit: I don't know why I didn't list some of my favorites.

Kanye West - Say You Will

Swans - A Little God in My Hands

FKA Twigs - Preface

Igorrr - Tout Petit Moineau

Mosh - Yokai

Death Grips - Takyon

Bernie Sanders - This Land is Your Land

Pusha T - King Push

[–]UpsideVII 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Random Access Memories on repeat.

[–]Kelsig 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Daft Punk is one of my favorite artists, been listening to them since Discovery came out.

[–]fmn13Canadian Labor Reserves 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Linkin' Park - In the End

[–]wumbotarianmodeled as if Noah Smith was a can opener 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

EDM

[–]Kelsig 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

When it comes to gritty dance music I really like the late 2000s french stuff.

[–]wumbotarianmodeled as if Noah Smith was a can opener 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Justice is good shit.

[–]neshalchanderman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shuffles playlist:

  1. Collin Raye - If I were you.

[–]lorentz65DEMAND FOR THE DEMAND GOD! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hip hop

[–]Lambchops_Legion 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Weird shit

[–]MoneyChurchChairman of the Kennywood Park Central Bank 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spotify playlist "Indie Pop!" has been my go to lately.

[–]wshanahan 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Meow the Jewels.

[–]Kelsig 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I haven't gotten to listen to it yet :(

[–]wshanahan 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's actually pretty good.

[–]IntegraldsI am the rep agent AMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trance/progressive/etc.

Touhou remixes. I dedicated my first-year macro notes to the House Set of Subterranean Animism and my econometrics notes to the House Set of Perfect Cherry Blossom. Most of my work last summer was coded under the influence of Infect Paranoia.

Tool.New album never

[–]usrname42There is no God but Keynes, and Krugman is his prophet 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Anything composed before 1940, mostly.

[–]Kelsig 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

i too love throat singing

[–]Tiakoneo-mercantilist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually went to a Tuvan throat singer performance. Shit was dope.

[–]BUTWHYNOTZOIDBERGTranscedential Virgo Trotskyist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Half the time I throw some hip-hop on, the other half I throw on some indie-ish type of music. In my recent hip-hop circulation: Gang Starr, Pete Rock, 2Pac, Chance the rapper. In my recent indie/new-wave circulation: The Smiths, Joy Division, Bon Iver, The Shins.